Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
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- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:24 pm
- Byond Username: Vincentius_vin
Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Goof opened a PR recently trying to change some toxins stuff, in that PR he gave his account of what happened when he's learning atmos. That account is helpful, maybe, or at the very least fun to read.
So if you dont play atmos/toxins and are trying it out recently, consider giving your thoughts here. Maybe a coder will pick it up and PR something nice, or maybe not, we'll see.
Some leading/pilot questions:
1. What are you trying to do?
2. How are you doing it?
3. Where did you get the info to do it? Wiki? Other players? IC?
4. What confuses you? What is poorly explained?
Thanks for your time.
So if you dont play atmos/toxins and are trying it out recently, consider giving your thoughts here. Maybe a coder will pick it up and PR something nice, or maybe not, we'll see.
Some leading/pilot questions:
1. What are you trying to do?
2. How are you doing it?
3. Where did you get the info to do it? Wiki? Other players? IC?
4. What confuses you? What is poorly explained?
Thanks for your time.
-
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
- Byond Username: Annihilite
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Objective: create really hot gasses through the power of canburns.
Method: pipe plasma and oxy into a gas mixer and further into a T2 can. Use double thermomachines to quickly heat can to 400C.
Result: Atmos utterly ruined. Myself husked and blown to bits. Several burncans lost to the accident.
I didn't touch the wiki for this. Most of my atmos knowledge is from experience or the occasional elder atmosian teachibg me some tricks.
Method: pipe plasma and oxy into a gas mixer and further into a T2 can. Use double thermomachines to quickly heat can to 400C.
Result: Atmos utterly ruined. Myself husked and blown to bits. Several burncans lost to the accident.
I didn't touch the wiki for this. Most of my atmos knowledge is from experience or the occasional elder atmosian teachibg me some tricks.
- sinfulbliss
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
No cluevincentius_vin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:25 am Some leading/pilot questions:
1. What are you trying to do?
Wrongly
No wherevincentius_vin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:25 am3. Where did you get the info to do it? Wiki? Other players? IC?
Pipes and gasses
Spoiler:
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Locking sec items behind atmos brb
- massa
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:20 am
- Byond Username: Massa100
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
You should be asking atmos players these questions so that we can tell you how to make them a bit easier to bite into for players in general. People who don't play atmos don't even touch the RPD or try to use it. People who do tox effectively do ghetto atmos, but you can make some insane shit work there.
Knowing the intelligence level of the average spessman, if my THC fried brain can learn atmos in the short time it took me to with little guidance, you can all learn it in a metaphorical 5 minutes, especially with a good guide nearby. The dumbest motherfuckers on Sybil and Terry could learn atmosia in a single round, but it looks spooky so people just avoid it innately. You've all really got this.
Knowing the intelligence level of the average spessman, if my THC fried brain can learn atmos in the short time it took me to with little guidance, you can all learn it in a metaphorical 5 minutes, especially with a good guide nearby. The dumbest motherfuckers on Sybil and Terry could learn atmosia in a single round, but it looks spooky so people just avoid it innately. You've all really got this.
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
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- Location: AI Upload
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
The most confusing part about learning atmospherics is probably the highly unintuitive way that pipes and pumps work (all connected pipes distribute gas in their connected segment instantly, across any distance, perfectly evenly)
This is, btw, why optimized supermatter setups replace all the pumps with straight pipes; there's pretty much no benefit to keeping the sections separated.
This is, btw, why optimized supermatter setups replace all the pumps with straight pipes; there's pretty much no benefit to keeping the sections separated.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
I'm not sure I like that the extremely niche autism fort side project feature that's actually understood by maybe 10 people total and everyone else just follows rote steps if they can be assed to acknowledge its existence at all should be forced into a mandatory step for a different department's round progression.
Like, all the silly fusion and specialist gas reaction stuff is just about tolerable when its sectioned off into little optional boxes for people who care about it to play with, but every time ghilker's personal passion projects extrude outside the box it just makes everyone else suffer
Like, all the silly fusion and specialist gas reaction stuff is just about tolerable when its sectioned off into little optional boxes for people who care about it to play with, but every time ghilker's personal passion projects extrude outside the box it just makes everyone else suffer
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- NecromancerAnne
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Spoiler:
That needs to be resolved before literally anything can be expected to be gated behind atmospherics. If that's not acceptable, then it shouldn't be a hardcap for any progress at all. If that is also not acceptable, the rest of the game suffers for it the more we push in this direction.
- Rohen_Tahir
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Skill issueNecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:44 pmTL;DR Atmospherics, and especially toxins, is not designed to be friendly to anyone trying to learn it, and especially probably involves a good deal of hostile game design meant to weed out those who can't actually approach learning the systems in the same way as a small group of players who have the right learning process to get their head around it. This means only a tiny fraction of our playerbase is equipped to handle these experiments. If new players can't learn it, they're probably reliant on cargo cult methods of approaching toxins, not actually learning how the systems work, but instead knowing that certain actions cause certain results, never actually bridging the gap towards learning how this came to be, because there is no ingame explanations for most of this that are presented in a user friendly manner. This results in a hollow experience for the player, and would feel more like a chore than gameplay.Spoiler:
That needs to be resolved before literally anything can be expected to be gated behind atmospherics. If that's not acceptable, then it shouldn't be a hardcap for any progress at all. If that is also not acceptable, the rest of the game suffers for it the more we push in this direction.
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- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:24 pm
- Byond Username: Vincentius_vin
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Coding feedback is in another block.
Asking for stories of you folks interacting with atmos, not your opinions. Jesus christ, we got plenty of those.
Asking for stories of you folks interacting with atmos, not your opinions. Jesus christ, we got plenty of those.
- NecromancerAnne
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
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- Location: Don't touch me, motherfucker...
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
That's my story. It's poorly explained and difficult to approach and frankly nobody involved in the process can articulate it to others in a way that makes it easy to onboard. My experiences amount to feeling like it's all a chore and I never learned a damn thing about it even when successful. And I have been successful, but no idea how.
Also lemon linked to this thread to explain where things have been a problem so blame him.
Also lemon linked to this thread to explain where things have been a problem so blame him.
- Jonathan Gupta
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
I can tell you right now atmos is simple, you get trit from cooling white hot plasma and oxygen so it keeps burning Then you put that tritum make it hot in a t3-t4 can and put it in a plasma tank after scrubbin said plasma tank scrubbing a oxygen tank and cooling a regular one.
- Jonathan Gupta
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Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
TL;DR Hot Tritum (Cool a Plasma Fire), cold oxygen.
- Kendrickorium
- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:00 am
- Byond Username: Kendrickorium
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
the only fun thing about atmos for me was knowing how to plasmaflood for a couple months on hippiestation
then they changed it slightly and i never bothered to relearn it, ever
then they changed it slightly and i never bothered to relearn it, ever
- InfiniteGalaxies
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:59 pm
- Byond Username: InfiniteGalaxies
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
even if you do atmos, shit is like 90% is useless, or not needed from making gasses or reactions
► Show Spoiler
Ticky tocky goes clocky, you did an icky ocky!
- YBS
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:54 am
- Byond Username: YBS
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Good thread. Atmos is mostly like some kind of eldritch magic to me, so I'm happy to explain my failures.
1. What are you trying to do?
I have tried to set up a tritium harvest through the turbine engine a few times, each time I usually had to cry for Evola Vickers or their equivalent atmosian to come save me from myself.
I have also attempted mixing fancier gasses, with limited/poor results.
2. How are you doing it?
I set up the turbine normally, but then attempted to divert the waste to a omni-filter which went to an upgraded can to hold trit, which then hits a cooler, which then hits the waste distro since I thought having colder gasses in there would prevent clogs.
I have also attempted to take reactions up to t2 gasses, with mixed or completely failed results.
3. Where did you get the info to do it? Wiki? Other players? IC?
I defaulted to https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_Atmospherics back when it was not nearly as comprehensive as it is now.
I also have shadowed atmos players, who explained everything well enough in the moment, but it never stuck for me.
I quickly assumed that this was because I was just bad and I eventually gave up learning it completely.
This is probably still true but atmos remains the most frustrating job on the station.
4. What confuses you? What is poorly explained?
Pipe layering interaction confuses me. Putting pipes 'through' windows and walls then connecting them is something that I still fear fucking up. Not understanding clogging makes me not want to deal with waste. Also, when an area's atmosphere alarm won't cut I don't know the first thing about properly restoring true atmos kpa/temp.
These are small details where the guide is usually "room cold? use heater" but in reality that is codependant on room size, current temp and a wide variety of other factors.
There is also always an unspoken 'optimization' that comes from atmos that is barely explained apart from 'volume pipe good' while not explaining the mentality that would let new/confused players find these adjustments better on their own.
The way that the gas recipes are written out in the wiki is fine, but then you have situations that go something like this:
I've made my two-three cans of filled prerequisite gas, somehow, through this one distribution pipe that may or may not be contaminated with leftover gasses because I don't understand how fully purging a pipe works.
Now I have to mix them in a setup that is temperature sensitive then filter it into a new can. Now, because they are temp exposed, all of my moles are different.
Having these not being written out exactly makes sense to me, but the way these details are disjointedly sprinkled in will not work for people just quickly trying to do something that makes atmos more exciting to them, which IS how the average player approaches a ss13 job. Botany has this same issue.
Both departments need a 'do this one cool thing!' handholding guide that lets any new player do one cool but not game breaking craft result that structures how to approach all of the other desired crafting results.
For atmos this could be something like: Make a Trit Harvest Turbine or Make a Cool Functioning Cooling Loop In Space.
Something like optimizing distro is not something a new player can even see. Back when I first learned how to do this, with now probably outdated information, I remember thinking "wow I did that - so fucking what?" since you cant even see the results.
1. What are you trying to do?
I have tried to set up a tritium harvest through the turbine engine a few times, each time I usually had to cry for Evola Vickers or their equivalent atmosian to come save me from myself.
I have also attempted mixing fancier gasses, with limited/poor results.
2. How are you doing it?
I set up the turbine normally, but then attempted to divert the waste to a omni-filter which went to an upgraded can to hold trit, which then hits a cooler, which then hits the waste distro since I thought having colder gasses in there would prevent clogs.
I have also attempted to take reactions up to t2 gasses, with mixed or completely failed results.
3. Where did you get the info to do it? Wiki? Other players? IC?
I defaulted to https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_Atmospherics back when it was not nearly as comprehensive as it is now.
I also have shadowed atmos players, who explained everything well enough in the moment, but it never stuck for me.
I quickly assumed that this was because I was just bad and I eventually gave up learning it completely.
This is probably still true but atmos remains the most frustrating job on the station.
4. What confuses you? What is poorly explained?
Pipe layering interaction confuses me. Putting pipes 'through' windows and walls then connecting them is something that I still fear fucking up. Not understanding clogging makes me not want to deal with waste. Also, when an area's atmosphere alarm won't cut I don't know the first thing about properly restoring true atmos kpa/temp.
These are small details where the guide is usually "room cold? use heater" but in reality that is codependant on room size, current temp and a wide variety of other factors.
There is also always an unspoken 'optimization' that comes from atmos that is barely explained apart from 'volume pipe good' while not explaining the mentality that would let new/confused players find these adjustments better on their own.
The way that the gas recipes are written out in the wiki is fine, but then you have situations that go something like this:
I've made my two-three cans of filled prerequisite gas, somehow, through this one distribution pipe that may or may not be contaminated with leftover gasses because I don't understand how fully purging a pipe works.
Now I have to mix them in a setup that is temperature sensitive then filter it into a new can. Now, because they are temp exposed, all of my moles are different.
Having these not being written out exactly makes sense to me, but the way these details are disjointedly sprinkled in will not work for people just quickly trying to do something that makes atmos more exciting to them, which IS how the average player approaches a ss13 job. Botany has this same issue.
Both departments need a 'do this one cool thing!' handholding guide that lets any new player do one cool but not game breaking craft result that structures how to approach all of the other desired crafting results.
For atmos this could be something like: Make a Trit Harvest Turbine or Make a Cool Functioning Cooling Loop In Space.
Something like optimizing distro is not something a new player can even see. Back when I first learned how to do this, with now probably outdated information, I remember thinking "wow I did that - so fucking what?" since you cant even see the results.
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Well, I triedvincentius_vin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:25 am Some leading/pilot questions:
1. What are you trying to do?
2. How are you doing it?
3. Where did you get the info to do it? Wiki? Other players? IC?
4. What confuses you? What is poorly explained?
Thanks for your time.
1. making my first Hyper-Noblium
2. I took some tritium I found abandoned and some N2, following the Wiki guidelines. I put it 2:1 in a canister and plugged it directly into a Cooler set to 13 Kelvin. Nothing happened for a while. I tried moving 10 kPa to a mini oxygen tank in case there was a pressure/moles requirement, no further reaction. So I unwrenched the gas can, which - now disconnected from the port leading to the cooler - promptly heated up and then exploded, taking my arm off and breaching the floor.
3. Wiki gave all the information I had about formation conditions, mostly.
4. Why did the gas not react until I unwrenched it? Was the explosion caused by the Hyper-Noblium reacting with the Tritium directly? Is Bz to reduce the reaction heat NECESSARY or merely convenient? Can I react this in pipes for safety + precooling before I move it to the canister and then the tank?
There appears to be some sort of invisible reaction criterion I missed that stopped it from reacting until I unwrenched it but I can't imagine what it was.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
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- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:24 pm
- Byond Username: Vincentius_vin
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Wrenched cans dont react, it's just one of those weird atmos quirks that we know but never thought about whether its worth keeping or not. Might be interesting to change or at the very least add examine messages on. Thank you.
Nobformation energy's heat is indeed astronomical, on par with trit burn, probably should give more emphasis on it in the wiki or in the guide.
As for the layer and eqalization thing, thats gonna be a trickier devil to solve.
Thanks folks!
Nobformation energy's heat is indeed astronomical, on par with trit burn, probably should give more emphasis on it in the wiki or in the guide.
As for the layer and eqalization thing, thats gonna be a trickier devil to solve.
Thanks folks!
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Ah, fuck me. Then it couldn't react there because I didn't have a pipe for it to react in between the cooler and the connector.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
Did a standard 3-canisters-of-O2 tritium burn. Got 158 mol Tritium. Used them all in a research bomb. Oops.
Attempted to flush pipes for next burn. Hot plasma got out because I wrenched a Huge Scrubber onto a port, which released it all immediately. Said scrubber died in the line of duty.
Second burn involved 3-4 O2 canisters 3 physical canisters, but one filled to cap by a volume pump in Atmos)
This burn produced about 100 mol tritium, probably inefficiency due to improperly scrubbed pipes and my lack of attention to maintaining optimal ratio during the burn.
Caused another small detonation clearing pipes out again.
Lost another 20 mol caught in pipes.
Made a hellish reaction chamber trying to react them safely, but for some reason the passive vent inside the chamber got real broken and honestly who knows what was going on in there. The important thing is, when I gave up and extracted the gasses, only after pumping the pipes loose did I start getting the warmed gasses loose in the chamber, which weren't equalizing with the gasses in the cooling pipes at all.
Shoved the gasses into a T3 canister, which I assume is what I'm MEANT to do, alternating attaching and unattaching it to the freezer until it all reacted. This process was torturously slow, but managed to generate 8ish full mol of Hyper-noblium, with each mol taking around a minute of re-cooling minimum.
Had the entire oxygen supply of the station not been consumed by an atmospheric technician earlier in the shift, I might have been able to perform another burn and go directly to this method, but alas, it was not to be. Similarly, doing this on Icebox without space cooling is fucking agonizing.
Finally shoved 10 mol into a tank, got the experiment, called it a day, immediately suicided. Part of it was having to set up the engine AND go mining for uranium for T3 lasers myself, all while being on IceBox, but I would call this easily one of my most unpleasant SS13 experiences.
You could not pay me to do this again.
Attempted to flush pipes for next burn. Hot plasma got out because I wrenched a Huge Scrubber onto a port, which released it all immediately. Said scrubber died in the line of duty.
Second burn involved 3-4 O2 canisters 3 physical canisters, but one filled to cap by a volume pump in Atmos)
This burn produced about 100 mol tritium, probably inefficiency due to improperly scrubbed pipes and my lack of attention to maintaining optimal ratio during the burn.
Caused another small detonation clearing pipes out again.
Lost another 20 mol caught in pipes.
Made a hellish reaction chamber trying to react them safely, but for some reason the passive vent inside the chamber got real broken and honestly who knows what was going on in there. The important thing is, when I gave up and extracted the gasses, only after pumping the pipes loose did I start getting the warmed gasses loose in the chamber, which weren't equalizing with the gasses in the cooling pipes at all.
Shoved the gasses into a T3 canister, which I assume is what I'm MEANT to do, alternating attaching and unattaching it to the freezer until it all reacted. This process was torturously slow, but managed to generate 8ish full mol of Hyper-noblium, with each mol taking around a minute of re-cooling minimum.
Had the entire oxygen supply of the station not been consumed by an atmospheric technician earlier in the shift, I might have been able to perform another burn and go directly to this method, but alas, it was not to be. Similarly, doing this on Icebox without space cooling is fucking agonizing.
Finally shoved 10 mol into a tank, got the experiment, called it a day, immediately suicided. Part of it was having to set up the engine AND go mining for uranium for T3 lasers myself, all while being on IceBox, but I would call this easily one of my most unpleasant SS13 experiences.
You could not pay me to do this again.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Jonathan Gupta
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:16 pm
- Byond Username: BallastMonsterGnarGnar
- Location: The Corner
Re: Semi serious non atmos player atmos story thread
you burn it turn off scrubbers for 30 seconds cool the reaction, turn the scrubbers back on after 1 minute and then you use the air pump to absorb it.Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:48 am Did a standard 3-canisters-of-O2 tritium burn. Got 158 mol Tritium. Used them all in a research bomb. Oops.
Attempted to flush pipes for next burn. Hot plasma got out because I wrenched a Huge Scrubber onto a port, which released it all immediately. Said scrubber died in the line of duty.
Second burn involved 3-4 O2 canisters 3 physical canisters, but one filled to cap by a volume pump in Atmos)
This burn produced about 100 mol tritium, probably inefficiency due to improperly scrubbed pipes and my lack of attention to maintaining optimal ratio during the burn.
Caused another small detonation clearing pipes out again.
Lost another 20 mol caught in pipes.
Made a hellish reaction chamber trying to react them safely, but for some reason the passive vent inside the chamber got real broken and honestly who knows what was going on in there. The important thing is, when I gave up and extracted the gasses, only after pumping the pipes loose did I start getting the warmed gasses loose in the chamber, which weren't equalizing with the gasses in the cooling pipes at all.
Shoved the gasses into a T3 canister, which I assume is what I'm MEANT to do, alternating attaching and unattaching it to the freezer until it all reacted. This process was torturously slow, but managed to generate 8ish full mol of Hyper-noblium, with each mol taking around a minute of re-cooling minimum.
Had the entire oxygen supply of the station not been consumed by an atmospheric technician earlier in the shift, I might have been able to perform another burn and go directly to this method, but alas, it was not to be. Similarly, doing this on Icebox without space cooling is fucking agonizing.
Finally shoved 10 mol into a tank, got the experiment, called it a day, immediately suicided. Part of it was having to set up the engine AND go mining for uranium for T3 lasers myself, all while being on IceBox, but I would call this easily one of my most unpleasant SS13 experiences.
You could not pay me to do this again.
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