Metagangs, Snubs, and Exclusion

[RaveRadbury]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I've heard players claim that they've been excluded or ignored by metagangs and crew, especially on Manuel. I'd like to understand this phenomenon better. Would anyone be willing to share anecdotes of their experience? No fingers have to be pointed (and it would probably be better if names weren't named), but stories of it happening might better establish what the issues are and how they can be addressed.

[sinfulbliss]

-snip-

It sort of sounds like you're just saying that players being excluded or snubbed need to just "adapt" (the RP equivalent of "git gud") until people want to talk to them. It seems to undercut the entire issue being brought up in the topic and chalking it up to inevitability. Is it inevitable for players to be rude to a newcomer because they have an inclination to protect their metacircle? I don't think so. I think you can have friends in the game who you hang out with regularly, while also being accepting to players outside that circle interacting with you.

Curating your experience to become insular so that you can "maintain your fun" goes against the point of the game and what makes it fun for other players. If you need to ignore everybody except a select few people you've decided are "beneficial for your enjoyment," and snub the rest so they don't dare invade your protected circle of enjoyment, I think you're doing something wrong.

It's true people like to hang out with their friends and nothing's wrong with that, but to be so obsessed with maximizing your own fun at the expense of others who just want you to reply to them, isn't a good thing. I also think negative experiences and having your "standard round-to-round meta-enjoyment" compromised is in the end a good part of the game, and adds depth not only to rounds but to your character development.

[Hulkamania]

I've been around RP communities for a long time, I got my online start in warcraft 3 custom games (spawn 01 footman) and went from there, having played tabletop stuff otherwise.

I can say most satisfactorily that groups and cliques are pretty natural, both in the real world but especially in communities like this. People, especially people who are younger or new to the concept of roleplaying, will often form little storylines and they don't want to bother with including new people into these because things have been "Established" already. This isn't done out of spite necessarily, more just like "we already have enough people to make our little story happen, you weren't around for the start of the story so you're relegated to a supporting character at best"

This is really prevalent in shit like LARP communities, where basically the people who started the group get all the cool positions (king, queen, main bad guy, etc.) and everyone who joins later is just like a random mook unless they appeal to the people who run it.

This also comes with lack of maturity. People don't want their characters to die, get injured, or suffer negative consequences and everyone enters into this unspoken agreement that things will HAPPEN in the story but nothing ever really *happens*. For example, I remember in one of my first roleplaying forays (in world of warcraft) my character got into a "RP fight" with another one, and my guy took a hit that left him with a scar. People in my group praised me for this because I was actually willing to.. have consequences happen to my character.

Now think to the average tumblr/deviantart kid who has an OC that has a million superpowers and is perfect but also *very slightly* flawed so they seem even cooler. It's a lot of that when people get started and spoilers: THAT'S OKAY. Yes it's not very conducive for actually interacting with that person beyond their little world they/their friends have built but everyone has to get a start somewhere, and for a LOT of people Manuel could very well be their first foray into more "serious" roleplaying.

It's like a baby step into an environment they have little experience with, and that's fine. It may not be the most wonderful environment in the universe to roleplay inside of, but it could act as a stepping stone to get people into more serious environments if that's what they want. Or maybe they try it out and it's NOT what they want, and that's okay too.

As people mature they start to make more grounded characters, or at least characters that they're not so afraid of losing or having more flaws and issues. Think peoples first DnD character (He's a FALLEN ANGEL with SICK ABS and ALL THE COOL POWERS) versus their fifteenth (He went to the rare bardic clown college and goes around the world telling jokes)

There's a place for all types, and while it would always be nice if people didn't exclude you from participating in their interactions just because you're not already in the group, I think these are pretty natural symptoms of people just getting their start in the "craft" of roleplaying.

[Misdoubtful]

-snip-

It sort of sounds like you're just saying that players being excluded or snubbed need to just "adapt" (the RP equivalent of "git gud") until people want to talk to them. It seems to undercut the entire issue being brought up in the topic and chalking it up to inevitability. Is it inevitable for players to be rude to a newcomer because they have an inclination to protect their metacircle? I don't think so. I think you can have friends in the game who you hang out with regularly, while also being accepting to players outside that circle interacting with you.

Curating your experience to become insular so that you can "maintain your fun" goes against the point of the game and what makes it fun for other players. If you need to ignore everybody except a select few people you've decided are "beneficial for your enjoyment," and snub the rest so they don't dare invade your protected circle of enjoyment, I think you're doing something wrong.

It's true people like to hang out with their friends and nothing's wrong with that, but to be so obsessed with maximizing your own fun at the expense of others who just want you to reply to them, isn't a good thing. I also think negative experiences and having your "standard round-to-round meta-enjoyment" compromised is in the end a good part of the game, and adds depth not only to rounds but to your character development.

Its safe to say that Hulk wrote my response to you for me.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Hmm, how does "It's just new kids getting into the swing of things" mesh with how ss13 cliques always seem to be older burned out people whove been around for year after year

[Misdoubtful]

Hmm, how does "It's just new kids getting into the swing of things" mesh with how ss13 cliques always seem to be older burned out people whove been around for year after year

Somebody doesn't have to be new to be stuck at a growth impasse.