FREE TYRONE: Orange Peanut Edition

[Kolinko]

Peanut thread requested by orange man for: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32769

I've played with this guy and I don't think he's so bad he needs to be contained. Damn.

[Misdoubtful]

[...] have my instagram and face linked to my discord

A surprising and dangerous game to be played for sure.

I remember late night binging Chappelle with friends regularly at like 5AM and I still remember how wack the execs milking people not getting the actual purpose of the shows while laughing at their front covers was. Those were some dark times, not just for his content.

[Archie700]

Chappelle grew to hate his own show for perpetuating the very stereotypes he was trying to mock.

[Itseasytosee2me]

I might have glossed over some key elements but what about his character was a racist depiction? Were any of the the stereotypes portrayed harmful or rude?
I feel hesitant judging myself, as I lack any afro-american backround, but what was the racist part?

Riggle was also totally being a dick in their post.

[Pandarsenic]

I might have glossed over some key elements but what about his character was a racist depiction? Were any of the the stereotypes portrayed harmful or rude?
I feel hesitant judging myself, as I lack any afro-american backround, but what was the racist part?

Riggle was also totally being a dick in their post.

You would probably not believe the number of players who come through setting maximum darkness on all tones, name themselves Tyrone, and then proceed to play as low-effort stereotypes until people get sick of it.

[iamgoofball]

I might have glossed over some key elements but what about his character was a racist depiction? Were any of the the stereotypes portrayed harmful or rude?
I feel hesitant judging myself, as I lack any afro-american backround, but what was the racist part?

Riggle was also totally being a dick in their post.

You would probably not believe the number of players who come through setting maximum darkness on all tones, name themselves Tyrone, and then proceed to play as low-effort stereotypes until people get sick of it.

false positives happen and instead of admins admitting they fucked up, they are quadrupling down and a white admin is now talking down at a black player about what is/isn't racist

there was a way to handle this, and this was not it

[johnfulpwillard]

This appeal was pretty interesting as I remember a ban appeal on Fulp for this very same scenario and I thought it was handled fine there, though in general TG ban appeals tend to be long back and fourths which makes it look like it's giving the banned guy a fair chance at representing himself, but it also turns situations that could easily be dealt with into long tedious arguments for admins which I think helps lead to burnout faster.

[NoobskyBoi]

I feel this one is justified. Someone naming themselves "white cracker" instead of afro man, then "gas station crackhead" while picking fights would eat the same ban. It's racist no matter who says it, and generally sets a bad precedent if not nipped in the bud.

[kieth4]

Did you guys like, even check the logs on why riggle made this ban? It isn't a bad ban and they were acting like a stereotype!

[Archie700]

n-word pass

I don't think this guy is actually black.

Itseasy2see, Iamgoofball, please explain how an "n-word pass" is somehow not a red flag.

[iamgoofball]

n-word pass

I don't think this guy is actually black.

Itseasy2see, Iamgoofball, please explain how an "n-word pass" is somehow not a red flag.

because this is the internet and everyone is anonymous, it is entirely possible that the player really is black and is telling the truth and truly believes that /tg/ admins cracking down on this specific instance of racist caricatures is problematic because it's white people on the internet dictating what is/isn't racist to black people

it is entirely possible to be a member of a minority group and still be a racist asshole towards that minority group

we will never know the truth, and /tg/station admins are not armed with the sociology degrees required to successfully tread the minefield without accidentally doing a racism like what's going on in this ban appeal

[Timberpoes]

Hopefully this gets swept up before MSO sees it and sweeps in with some on-brand ruling about black people reclaiming their culture and these kinds of characters being the soul of SS13.

Incidents like this gave me eternal headaches, because I'm the ultimate privileged class and have to figure out how bigoted problematic it is from my cis white male privilege throne.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Hopefully this gets swept up before MSO sees it and sweeps in with some on-brand ruling about black people reclaiming their culture and these kinds of characters being the soul of SS13.

Incidents like this gave me eternal headaches, because I'm the ultimate privileged class and have to figure out how bigoted problematic it is from my cis white male privilege throne.

I hope he does, since he's an actual egalitarian, and he treats all people equally, unlike your post which implies cis white males are privileged, and therefore have to act/treat others differently based on their immutable characteristics.

You know why you get eternal headaches from incidents like this? It's because that's your brain frying from the mental gymnastics you have to do to uphold the double-think of "don't be racist" and also "My race is the special privileged race" at the same time.

[Mice World]

If we're against stereotype characters the only sane move is to stop everyone from playing one. The "I'm Black so I can do x because I know it won't offend black people" is a stupid argument anyway, even if you ignore the somewhat racist part about it. There is no sole decider of what is offensive and what isn't, your character might not offend you but it could easily offend someone else.

[Shadowflame909]

I'm black and I think playing an ignorant caricature is cringe

Would you be comfortable with caricatures of your race?

[Timberpoes]

Hopefully this gets swept up before MSO sees it and sweeps in with some on-brand ruling about black people reclaiming their culture and these kinds of characters being the soul of SS13.

Incidents like this gave me eternal headaches, because I'm the ultimate privileged class and have to figure out how bigoted problematic it is from my cis white male privilege throne.

I hope he does, since he's an actual egalitarian, and he treats all people equally, unlike your post which implies cis white males are privileged, and therefore have to act/treat others differently based on their immutable characteristics.

You know why you get eternal headaches from incidents like this? It's because that's your brain frying from the mental gymnastics you have to do to uphold the double-think of "don't be racist" and also "My race is the special privileged race" at the same time.

I have immutable characteristics that are far less likely to result in bigotry against me. I'm sure it has happened, but I've never been aware of it if and when it has.

Because of those immutable characterstics, I have neither the knowledge, experience nor context for a lot of bigotry-related issues. I'm either getting offended on someone else's behalf for what I think could be percieved as bigotry from my very narrow perspective (as someone that is privileged enough to say they have never experienced it). Or it means when I make rulings I've totally missed the point. I guarantee that my own unique personal circumstances infect my view of what is and isn't bigotry. That my attempt to decide what is and isn't bigoted, is in itself bigoted or enabling bigotry. It's why it gives me headaches.

What may look racist or bigoted to me, may not be considered racist of bigoted to others, or may not be racist or bigoted if said by one person (due to certain immutable characteristics) while may be racist or bigoted to be said by someone else (due to certain immutable characteristics). And in calling something bigoted, I could myself be bigoted in the process to some people, and be justified to others, when all other things different they share the same immutable characteristics.

Is there an implication that our standards are different depending on your skin colour? If you're [type], you can play a [type] stereotype. If you're not, it's bigoted?

At no point do I want the tgstation administration to race check and demand proof of every single person to make sure they fit the necessary skin colour, religion, gender and ethniticity to figure out which person gets a nigger pass, which gets a cracker pass, which gets a you'll never be a real woman pass, which gets a bag of Jew gold pass, etc. And I don't think the playerbase wants us asking for doxx-lite, doxx-like and just actual doxx information from everyone either.

Where would we even record it? Do you trust every future admin not to abuse that information or share it? We're just volunteers. I sure as hell don't want to be trusted with that information.

And let's not even get into the idea that some people can be bigoted against their own, while other people can be entrenched in an alternative culture to an extent that they're not being bigoted despite differing immutable characteristics.

So is it bigoted to go "you're white so you can't say nigger or call black players nigger etc." when the dude is genuinely the only "cracker" in the neighbourhood and that's all the language and society and culture they've ever known?

Who wins when a player with a verified immutable characteristic takes offence at another player with the same immutable characteristic? Talk about unstoppable force meets immovable object.

Nobody. Neither player, not the administration, nor the server as a whole. Everyone loses.

[sinfulbliss]

Yeah Timber is completely correct here, the rules should not depend on what race/ethnicity/gender/whatever-else-the-fuck group the player OOCly claims to be a part of. They should apply to everyone equally, full-stop. That includes rule 11. If that means a possible black person getting banned for saying nigger IC, that's sort of just the cost of business. If the alternative is this jank dox skin verification submission and secret race notes, I'll take it.

Only thing I disagree with was the privilege rhetoric at the beginning. Your implicit biases exist for much, much more than just your race. They infect every single decision you make based on every group you're a part of. There's Timber as a white dude, there's Timber as a Gamemaster, there's Timber as a son, there's Timber as an admin, there's Timber as a coder - and hundreds more I'm sure. Each one of these facets of your identity affects your perspectives and view of everything, not just bigotry. Treat bigotry the same. Account for other perspectives as best you can and then state your opinion as an ensouled, unique being.

[Timberpoes]

Only thing I disagree with was the privilege rhetoric at the beginning. Your implicit biases exist for much, much more than just your race. They infect every single decision you make based on every group you're a part of. There's Timber as a white dude, there's Timber as a Gamemaster, there's Timber as a son, there's Timber as an admin, there's Timber as a coder - and hundreds more I'm sure. Each one of these facets of your identity affects your perspectives and view of everything, not just bigotry. Treat bigotry the same. Account for other perspectives as best you can and then state your opinion as an ensouled, unique being.

I try my best to think of things this way. I have had extensive training in identifying, challenging and defeating discrimination in both conscious and unconscious forms. Initially training was due to my previous job in the court system, but I've recently had to do additional training for my current job because I'm working even more directly with members of the public than my previous role.

One of my clients was disabled, and the court usher asked me if they'd need any adjustments in the courtroom to accomodate them. I wouldn't have even thought about that as a problem and would have totally answered on their behalf, but my training identified that as a form of discrimination against my client (i.e. - Why the fuck are they asking me, I don't know, I'm not the disabled person) and taught me in that situation to redirect the question over and have them answer directly.

It all still feels more by luck or random chance that I've not done a monumental faux pas at some point. And I'm woefully aware of how under-equipped I am in life experience. The training opened my eyes to a lot of things I never thought of or realised. Like, it goes for all aspects of my life. That at some point my "best guesses as to how to deal with situations" will fall short and I'll end up chewing on a brick.

Is that just a bit of imposter syndrome kicking in?

[Farquaar]

n-word pass

I don't think this guy is actually black.

Itseasy2see, Iamgoofball, please explain how an "n-word pass" is somehow not a red flag.

Better tell my black friends that they can't find n-word pass jokes funny anymore

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

I have immutable characteristics that are far less likely to result in bigotry against me. I'm sure it has happened, but I've never been aware of it if and when it has.

It happened when you went to school/online and a bunch of liberals infected you with this disgusting self-hating rhetoric. There's a reason white liberals are the only demographic with an out-group preference - their ideology spreads like a social parasite on other white people, if it didn't white liberals as a group would just naturally die out. Black people may have to deal with other people calling them disgusting slurs, but white people have to deal with people gaslighting them into thinking they're evil privileged bigots. I look at you and I see a victim of gaslighting, who was so mentally fucked with, that they don't even recognize what happened to them. At least black people get their racist experiences validated, white people's main form of being acted against in a racist manner is entirely invalidating their experiences in the first place, and telling them none of it matters! And them believing it due to years of mental abuse!

Because of those immutable characterstics, I have neither the knowledge, experience nor context for a lot of bigotry-related issues. I'm either getting offended on someone else's behalf for what I think could be percieved as bigotry from my very narrow perspective (as someone that is privileged enough to say they have never experienced it). Or it means when I make rulings I've totally missed the point. I guarantee that my own unique personal circumstances infect my view of what is and isn't bigotry. That my attempt to decide what is and isn't bigoted, is in itself bigoted or enabling bigotry. It's why it gives me headaches.

You most certainly do have the knowledge and experience - the way you've experienced racism is in other people infecting you with these disgusting ideas of hating your own race, which you have been expressing through the opinions you posted in this thread providing us evidence of such abuse happening in the first place. You might lack the knowledge of the same type of racism that a black man would experience, but that doesn't mean you haven't experienced any - you just don't recognize it due to the very nature of the racism in the first place.

What may look racist or bigoted to me, may not be considered racist of bigoted to others, or may not be racist or bigoted if said by one person (due to certain immutable characteristics) while may be racist or bigoted to be said by someone else (due to certain immutable characteristics). And in calling something bigoted, I could myself be bigoted in the process to some people, and be justified to others, when all other things different they share the same immutable characteristics.

Let me help you out - it's REALLY easy - do you think that someone named "Watermelon Chickenwing" with maxed melanin and an afro running around saying "muhfuggin crackas gimme dat welfare" is racist? (pro-tip: it is) Then it DOES NOT MATTER who made the character or said the words. It DOES NOT MATTER even if the player who was banned hops into this appeal and shows his drivers license showing that "Watermelon Chickenwing" is his actual name and he is actually black and talks in this way in real life - if you hold the opinion that his actions are a racist stereotype, then you need to apply that standard to everyone - because your job as the tgstation administrator is to treat everyone equally in line with the rules. We do not give free passes to people here based on their race, religion, height, weight, etc. - if something is wrong for you, it's wrong for me, and it's wrong for him.

Is there an implication that our standards are different depending on your skin colour? If you're [type], you can play a [type] stereotype. If you're not, it's bigoted?

No because MSO has fought hard to ensure all players are treated equally. Thank God.

At no point do I want the tgstation administration to race check and demand proof of every single person to make sure they fit the necessary skin colour, religion, gender and ethniticity to figure out which person gets a nigger pass, which gets a cracker pass, which gets a you'll never be a real woman pass, which gets a bag of Jew gold pass, etc. And I don't think the playerbase wants us asking for doxx-lite, doxx-like and just actual doxx information from us either.

Where would we even record it? Do you trust every future admin not to abuse that information or share it? We're just volunteers. I sure as hell don't want to be trusted with that information.

You're right - don't do this. Do what I said above, and treat everyone the same regardless of what you think, or even know their personal characteristics to be.

And let's not even get into the idea that some people can be bigoted against their own

Probably best to avoid that or you would have to do some introspection.

, while other people can be entrenched in an alternative culture to an extent that they're not being bigoted despite differing immutable characteristics.

No, they can't. Your characteristics do not matter. A white man saying "All Chinese are evil" and a white man who grew up in China, with Chinese parents, Chinese friends, Chinese schooling, etc. saying "All Chinese are evil" are both being equally racist.

So is it bigoted to go "you're white so you can't say nigger or call black players nigger etc." when the dude is genuinely the only "cracker" in the neighbourhood and that's all the language and society and culture they've ever known?

Yes. Yes that is bigoted. It's bigoted because you're saying the white person has to act differently because he's white.

[Misdoubtful]

I'm black and I think playing an ignorant caricature is cringe

Would you be comfortable with caricatures of your race?

The funny part is that this was the entire problem that came to be with Chapelle's characters and their quirky dialogues being masticated into things that people lazily copy and recycle instead of being, you know, something to sit and think about as a frame of reference on cultural issues within their own neighborhoods.

Its honestly what makes everyone that uses anything from his skits (or other similar skits of the times) like this so insane. Its just so tone deaf it sometimes makes me think I have tinnitus.

If people actually cared about the messages Chapelle was trying to relate to people about serious troubles, they wouldn't be doing it like this by lazily perpetuating the problems forwards.

This dude tryna say its okay because he 'lives in an inner city community in real life', I lived in the ghetto, none of it was funny, nobody joked about it. Dude tryna say he can talk however he wants because of his skin color, other people in the hood would get their dues on him for it.

Dude needs to be better.

[sinfulbliss]

It all still feels more by luck or random chance that I've not done a monumental faux pas at some point. And I'm woefully aware of how under-equipped I am in life experience. The training opened my eyes to a lot of things I never thought of or realised. Like, it goes for all aspects of my life. That at some point my "best guesses as to how to deal with situations" will fall short and I'll end up chewing on a brick.

Is that just a bit of imposter syndrome kicking in?

I think some apprehensiveness is required to not come across as a complete dick that doesn't care about anyone else's feelings or perspectives, but it's probably in excess when it becomes headache-inducing (tiered privileges, what you can/can't say and can/can't know, if I say you can't say the N-word as a white man but you're actually black then I'm fucked, but also maybe I'm just trying to protect black people from the N-word in general which is noble, but then I have a white savior complex and-). Maybe the training is best used as another implicit bias incorporated into your preexisting implicit biases, forcing you to subconsciously notice them, than as something to meticulously apply to situations such as these.

[Timberpoes]

Snip polcon manifesto stream of consciousness

It genuinely feels like you're going for the most nuclear bad-faith interpretation possible and running from there.

I don't even know where to begin addressing the literal stream of consciousness shit you just spewed.

I feel you are genuinely mistaken in so many ways and on so many fronts that I just have to step outside of the discussion and say I cannot continue it.

What you typed can stand on its own merits.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Snip polcon manifesto stream of consciousness

It genuinely feels like you're going for the most nuclear bad-faith interpretation possible and running from there.

I don't even know where to begin addressing the literal stream of consciousness shit you just spewed.

I feel you are genuinely mistaken in so many ways and on so many fronts that I just have to step outside of the discussion and say I cannot continue it.

What you typed can stand on its own merits.

If you know me I never have and never will argue in bad faith. I may be (and historically have been) wrong (See that drama from 3 months ago), but I will give any discussion it's day in court, and if you prove me wrong I will say I am wrong (Again, proven by historical precedent).

If you think I misinterpreted your words, please feel free to correct me and provide a more clear explanation of your stance. Otherwise we will have to leave things as-is.

[Shadowflame909]

It happened when you went to school/online and a bunch of liberals infected you with this disgusting self-hating rhetoric. There's a reason white liberals are the only demographic with an out-group preference - their ideology spreads like a social parasite on other white people, if it didn't white liberals as a group would just naturally die out. Black people may have to deal with other people calling them disgusting slurs, but white people have to deal with people gaslighting them into thinking they're evil privileged bigots. I look at you and I see a victim of gaslighting, who was so mentally fucked with, that they don't even recognize what happened to them. At least black people get their racist experiences validated, white people's main form of being acted against in a racist manner is entirely invalidating their experiences in the first place, and telling them none of it matters! And them believing it due to years of mental abuse!

Me reading this post https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5FGjW_umTX0

I certainly hope white people don't have to be brainwashed into not hating other races. That'd be a pretty terrifying way to view the world

[Itseasytosee2me]

n-word pass

I don't think this guy is actually black.

Itseasy2see, Iamgoofball, please explain how an "n-word pass" is somehow not a red flag.

Yeah, that's worse that I thought it was. The logs are pretty ridiculous. Although the n-word pass comment pretty tame, if not poorly executed.

[Archie700]

It happened when you went to school/online and a bunch of liberals infected you with this disgusting self-hating rhetoric. There's a reason white liberals are the only demographic with an out-group preference - their ideology spreads like a social parasite on other white people, if it didn't white liberals as a group would just naturally die out. Black people may have to deal with other people calling them disgusting slurs, but white people have to deal with people gaslighting them into thinking they're evil privileged bigots. I look at you and I see a victim of gaslighting, who was so mentally fucked with, that they don't even recognize what happened to them. At least black people get their racist experiences validated, white people's main form of being acted against in a racist manner is entirely invalidating their experiences in the first place, and telling them none of it matters! And them believing it due to years of mental abuse!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcF_lrtkJCY

[EmpressMaia]

I have immutable characteristics that are far less likely to result in bigotry against me. I'm sure it has happened, but I've never been aware of it if and when it has.

It happened when you went to school/online and a bunch of liberals infected you with this disgusting self-hating rhetoric. There's a reason white liberals are the only demographic with an out-group preference - their ideology spreads like a social parasite on other white people, if it didn't white liberals as a group would just naturally die out. Black people may have to deal with other people calling them disgusting slurs, but white people have to deal with people gaslighting them into thinking they're evil privileged bigots. I look at you and I see a victim of gaslighting, who was so mentally fucked with, that they don't even recognize what happened to them. At least black people get their racist experiences validated, white people's main form of being acted against in a racist manner is entirely invalidating their experiences in the first place, and telling them none of it matters! And them believing it due to years of mental abuse!

Because of those immutable characterstics, I have neither the knowledge, experience nor context for a lot of bigotry-related issues. I'm either getting offended on someone else's behalf for what I think could be percieved as bigotry from my very narrow perspective (as someone that is privileged enough to say they have never experienced it). Or it means when I make rulings I've totally missed the point. I guarantee that my own unique personal circumstances infect my view of what is and isn't bigotry. That my attempt to decide what is and isn't bigoted, is in itself bigoted or enabling bigotry. It's why it gives me headaches.

You most certainly do have the knowledge and experience - the way you've experienced racism is in other people infecting you with these disgusting ideas of hating your own race, which you have been expressing through the opinions you posted in this thread providing us evidence of such abuse happening in the first place. You might lack the knowledge of the same type of racism that a black man would experience, but that doesn't mean you haven't experienced any - you just don't recognize it due to the very nature of the racism in the first place.

What may look racist or bigoted to me, may not be considered racist of bigoted to others, or may not be racist or bigoted if said by one person (due to certain immutable characteristics) while may be racist or bigoted to be said by someone else (due to certain immutable characteristics). And in calling something bigoted, I could myself be bigoted in the process to some people, and be justified to others, when all other things different they share the same immutable characteristics.

Let me help you out - it's REALLY easy - do you think that someone named "Watermelon Chickenwing" with maxed melanin and an afro running around saying "muhfuggin crackas gimme dat welfare" is racist? (pro-tip: it is) Then it DOES NOT MATTER who made the character or said the words. It DOES NOT MATTER even if the player who was banned hops into this appeal and shows his drivers license showing that "Watermelon Chickenwing" is his actual name and he is actually black and talks in this way in real life - if you hold the opinion that his actions are a racist stereotype, then you need to apply that standard to everyone - because your job as the tgstation administrator is to treat everyone equally in line with the rules. We do not give free passes to people here based on their race, religion, height, weight, etc. - if something is wrong for you, it's wrong for me, and it's wrong for him.

Is there an implication that our standards are different depending on your skin colour? If you're [type], you can play a [type] stereotype. If you're not, it's bigoted?

No because MSO has fought hard to ensure all players are treated equally. Thank God.

At no point do I want the tgstation administration to race check and demand proof of every single person to make sure they fit the necessary skin colour, religion, gender and ethniticity to figure out which person gets a nigger pass, which gets a cracker pass, which gets a you'll never be a real woman pass, which gets a bag of Jew gold pass, etc. And I don't think the playerbase wants us asking for doxx-lite, doxx-like and just actual doxx information from us either.

Where would we even record it? Do you trust every future admin not to abuse that information or share it? We're just volunteers. I sure as hell don't want to be trusted with that information.

You're right - don't do this. Do what I said above, and treat everyone the same regardless of what you think, or even know their personal characteristics to be.

And let's not even get into the idea that some people can be bigoted against their own

Probably best to avoid that or you would have to do some introspection.

, while other people can be entrenched in an alternative culture to an extent that they're not being bigoted despite differing immutable characteristics.

No, they can't. Your characteristics do not matter. A white man saying "All Chinese are evil" and a white man who grew up in China, with Chinese parents, Chinese friends, Chinese schooling, etc. saying "All Chinese are evil" are both being equally racist.

So is it bigoted to go "you're white so you can't say nigger or call black players nigger etc." when the dude is genuinely the only "cracker" in the neighbourhood and that's all the language and society and culture they've ever known?

Yes. Yes that is bigoted. It's bigoted because you're saying the white person has to act differently because he's white.

This is some wacky centrist shit

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

This is some wacky centrist shit

I don't think "Don't be racist, treat everyone the same, but also that includes white people, since apparently that needs to be said explicitly." is that whacky. Is it?

Edit: Same as - "Don't be sexist, but that includes towards men too"

The way I see it Timber is invalidating the opinions of cis white men on the basis of their characteristics by implying they shouldn't have any authority to decide matters of bigotry

[Itseasytosee2me]

This is some wacky centrist shit

I don't think "Don't be racist, treat everyone the same, but also that includes white people, since apparently that needs to be said explicitly." is that whacky. Is it?

Edit: Same as - "Don't be sexist, but that includes towards men too"

The way I see it Timber is invalidating the opinions of cis white men on the basis of their characteristics by implying they shouldn't have any authority to decide matters of bigotry

You sound like the guy who wanted to invite me to this weird Nordic church up north.

[Timberpoes]

Flip your entire philosophy about me around. I love being a white cisgendered male. It's like wearing plot armour. I'm the One Punch Man of being impossible to offend, hurt or harm.

I'm also pretty sure I'm not brainwashed by the liberal schooling system. What a strange point of argument to take up. Your polcon is showing, put it away.

You're not arguing with that rabble of children stood ontop of eachother's shoulders in trenchcoats. I'm a generation one step removed from yours. I know what the world was like pre-9/11. I already had a Gameboy before Pokémon Red/Blue was released in the West. Your upbringing appears so terrible that you cannot even comprehend the person you're speaking to grew up in a society and timeperiod so radically different to yours. It must be the *checks notes* woke liberal school system of the late 90s and early 2000s teaching white men they're bad.

I truth is I honestly have no idea objectively what is or isn't bigotry. All my life experience is good for is to teach me my opinions on it are far more extreme than MSO's, which complicates matters because I would tend towards to over-enforcing.

For example, I conceptually think of certain words as inherently bigoted when used to refer to their subject matter. If the person did not intend to be a bigot, they would have used a non-bigoted word. To me, that's where the nuance lies.

That is incompatible with MSO, that has ruled the exact opposite. No words are inherently bigoted and must be used in a way intended to be bigoted. That's where MSO's nuance lies.

And it all goes so wonderfully from there. They're pretty incompatible viewpoints, since one would permit bigoted language to be used in a bigoted context, but declare it non-bigoted if that wasn't the intent.

The other does not permit bigoted language.

[Edit] To expand a bit further, that's where the headache lies. Whatever special "it-factor" I need to figure out all the delicate nuances of intent to be bigoted versus using bigoted language without intent to be bigoted? I don't have it. Using the words of a bigot makes you so indistinguishable from a bigot that I'd rather not waste too much of my life trying to figure out if you're one of the good 'uns or the bad 'uns. Just pop the label on and carry on with my life.

[Misdoubtful]

I like how these sorts of threads tend to just keep devolving into the same thing. I'm just tryna talk about Dave Chapelle smh.

[kieth4]

I like how these sorts of threads tend to just keep devolving into the same thing. I'm just tryna talk about Dave Chapelle smh.

Welcome to the forums

[EmpressMaia]

Peanut butter and Crack sandwich

[EmpressMaia]

Peanut butter and Crack sandwich

[toemas]

LOL

[Misdoubtful]

Good ending (?) though.

[Nabski]

Flip your entire philosophy about me around. I love being a white cisgendered male. It's like wearing plot armour. I'm the One Punch Man of being impossible to offend, hurt or harm.

I'm also pretty sure I'm not brainwashed by the liberal schooling system. What a strange point of argument to take up. Your polcon is showing, put it away.

You're not arguing with that rabble of children stood ontop of eachother's shoulders in trenchcoats. I'm a generation one step removed from yours. I know what the world was like pre-9/11. I already had a Gameboy before Pokémon Red/Blue was released in the West. Your upbringing appears so terrible that you cannot even comprehend the person you're speaking to grew up in a society and timeperiod so radically different to yours. It must be the *checks notes* woke liberal school system of the late 90s and early 2000s teaching white men they're bad.

I truth is I honestly have no idea objectively what is or isn't bigotry. All my life experience is good for is to teach me my opinions on it are far more extreme than MSO's, which complicates matters because I would tend towards to over-enforcing.

For example, I conceptually think of certain words as inherently bigoted when used to refer to their subject matter. If the person did not intend to be a bigot, they would have used a non-bigoted word. To me, that's where the nuance lies.

That is incompatible with MSO, that has ruled the exact opposite. No words are inherently bigoted and must be used in a way intended to be bigoted. That's where MSO's nuance lies.

And it all goes so wonderfully from there. They're pretty incompatible viewpoints, since one would permit bigoted language to be used in a bigoted context, but declare it non-bigoted if that wasn't the intent.

The other does not permit bigoted language.

[Edit] To expand a bit further, that's where the headache lies. Whatever special "it-factor" I need to figure out all the delicate nuances of intent to be bigoted versus using bigoted language without intent to be bigoted? I don't have it. Using the words of a bigot makes you so indistinguishable from a bigot that I'd rather not waste too much of my life trying to figure out if you're one of the good 'uns or the bad 'uns. Just pop the label on and carry on with my life.

What was your first gameboy game.

I got two copies of Links Awakening on my birthday from different friends. We exchanged one for Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins.
I had to go look up the name of the Mario one because just saying "Mario 2" was probably wrong.

[Timberpoes]

What was your first gameboy game.

I got two copies of Links Awakening on my birthday from different friends. We exchanged one for Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins.
I had to go look up the name of the Mario one because just saying "Mario 2" was probably wrong.

Big gamer household as my dad worked as a system analyst, so he was knee deep in tech and computers.

The first games I remember are the classics of Super Mario Land and Tetris which I think came with my Gameboy. Soon after I had Top Rank Tennis added to my collection, then Super Mario Land 2. One of the guys my dad employed lent me a ton of games like Final Fantasy Adventure, Hunt for the Red October and Final Fantasy Legend 2 and 3. Super Wario Land came next, followed by me dropping my grey brick and smashing the screen, and my dad's boss buying me a new yellow one bundled with Donkey Kong Land. I got both Pokémon Red and Blue for Christmas after that, along with the strategy guide. I used one as my own personal game and the other to trade starters with friends at school for money. (This later evolved to selling floppy disks with Gameboy emulators and Pokémon ROMs to the kids that didn't have Gameboys. I made bank.)

At some point I upgraded to a GBC which I bought with all the money I spent selling ROMs plus selling level 100 Pokémon from the Missingno glitch.

Never had a NES, but I did have a SNES. I played my cousin's NES when I went to visit. SNES I had Killer Instinct which I used to play with my parents and their work colleagues. I knew how to do all the ultra combo finishers because I read the instruction manual, and everyone bribed me with food to teach them. Super Mario Kart. Super Mario All Stars. Super Mario World. I didn't really have that many SNES games because I rented them all. They tended to be quick to finish over weekends.

Everything gets fuzzy as shit when we moved towards the N64 and PSX cuz we'd all throw gamer house parties.

I do recall one very formative part of my life. I was attending Summer school cuz my parents were in full time work, and I had a choice to either get a big, fuckoff super soaker but while we were shopping for it I saw Banjo Kazooie and I know it got rave reviews because I bought all the Nintendo magazines. I went to Banjo Kazooie and from that point on I was officially a gamer nerd.

N64 had **all** the classics. Everyone had Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64. Goldeneye. Lylat Wars/Starfox 64. Rogue Squadron. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask (which I needed to get the memory expansion pack to play). Perfect Dark. Pokémon Snap. 1080. Episode 1 Racer, which I can still quote to this day. Absolute golden age of Ninty gaming. Lots of house parties with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, as well as a birthday where we were allowed to watch Starship Troopers until one of our friends threw up, at which point we all begged and pleaded and they let us finish watching it but supervised. Still one of my favourite films of all time. Many rentals too, but almost all the games were stuff I'd keep going back to play again and again. The only thing I explicitly remember renting was Space Station Silicon Valley cuz it looked awesome, as well as Holy Magic Century (the much cooler name and box for Quest 64).

PSX I barely had any games for to begin with because I was 10000% satisfied with all the demo disks I got from various magazines, as well as rentals. But I got hooked on Final Fantasy 7 and bought everything in the series from there. I think my PSX came with Apocalypse Starring Bruce Willis and... Oh fuck I totally forgot, the first Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver. God, still one of my favourite games of all time for the amazing voice work alone.

Dad introduced me to my first computer back in the early 90s, where I had some MS DOS shell set up with all the household games. I had some indycar racing game that I used to turn damage of for and drive around the track the wrong way, Battle Chess (because who didn't?), some PGA Links game. And I got hooked on the earliest generation of classic CD adventure games, with King's Quest VI, The Dig and Beneath a Steel Sky.

Been huge on PC gaming ever since then. The first The Sims got me into chat rooms and IRC, then Yahoo, then basically followed the Web 2.0 insanity from there. I've been immsersed in Internet culture since. One of my school friends was from Pakistan, and the advantages I won in having Internet access to sell ROMs, he matched in bootleg PC games. Between us we had an effective monopoly on ripping off/scamming the other kids.

[Shellton(Mario)]

What was your first gameboy game.

I got two copies of Links Awakening on my birthday from different friends. We exchanged one for Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins.
I had to go look up the name of the Mario one because just saying "Mario 2" was probably wrong.

Big gamer household as my dad worked as a system analyst, so he was knee deep in tech and computers.

The first games I remember are the classics of Super Mario Land and Tetris which I think came with my Gameboy. Soon after I had Top Rank Tennis added to my collection, then Super Mario Land 2.

I heard my name

[Nabski]

What was your first gameboy game.

I got two copies of Links Awakening on my birthday from different friends. We exchanged one for Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins.
I had to go look up the name of the Mario one because just saying "Mario 2" was probably wrong.

Big gamer household as my dad worked as a system analyst, so he was knee deep in tech and computers.

The first games I remember are the classics of Super Mario Land and Tetris which I think came with my Gameboy. Soon after I had Top Rank Tennis added to my collection, then Super Mario Land 2.

I heard my name

I wondered if you were going to pop up when I wrote the post.

Our first household console was, depending on how you define it, either the N64 or Sega Nomad. The nomad had this fun quirk of being a handheld console that if you moved it too much the game would jostle and you'd have to restart because it crashed.

The selling roms bit is funny and pretty clever. Fatal Labyrinth and Paper Mario were the two games we rented multiple times and I never managed to beat in a rental period and wished to own.

I remember doing PC games far before we did video games, with the DOS computer that was just used for Loader Larry, Commander Keen, and Duke Nukem. There were probably a few other games but those are the ones that stand out to me. My parents did the Kings Quest games, but I liked the Monkey Island series more myself.

There was one summer where I swear we must have been sleeping at someone elses house three times a week, just rotating around the neighborhood between four families.

[Timberpoes]

Pre-Internet boom gaming was the best. One of my friends had a dad that had a huge computing center where they taught old fogies how to use computers.

They weren't the best, but they were good enough to run games.

We had LAN parties there on weekends. A LOT of Warcraft 3, much DotA and other custom hero maps. And a big chunk of us loved playing Savage: The Battle for Newerth.

Every birthday involved some form of all nighter gaming sleepover. It was just what we all did.

[Timonk]

We need racial statistics on tg players so we can judge if the average spessmen can act like a black guy

[Shadowflame909]

We need racial statistics on tg players so we can judge if the average spessmen can act like a black guy

normal shift but security is probably replaced by changelings/wizard-mindswap or brainwashed by traitors