Head of Sethcurity

[Archie700]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32772

I disagree with Vekter's decision.

He should have been more harsh

[Turbonerd]

Not once did Seth mention about leading his department. Solo hunting antags is not a good conduct, especially as the HoS. Quite an embarrassing HoS to have. If you don't want to lead your department, don't play as a head. If you don't want to cooperate with the rest of the security team, don't play as a security officer.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Hard agree with Vekter - Because I always play on Sybil and Seth ALWAYS does this shit. He needs to stop signing up for command if he's going to keep going AFK from the start of the shift, or, as in this case, just fucking off from the station.

In fact, I REMEMBER this shift. I went back and checked the logs - I was present in this shift and he was the Acting Captain - And he still fucked off to space! My subordinate cargo tech waltzed in to the cargo bay with the nuke disk! I still don't know how he got it!

So he was hos and fucked off to space, and was acting cap and didnt secure the disk, and didnt tell anyone where he was going, so no one could recover him or have any info about where he was and what he was doing, and did not perform any of the functions of his job!

In fact, I wish this ban would be expanded to all command roles and extended for a week!

[Archie700]

At this point escalating punishment should apply, I have no illusions that Seth is playing in good faith or respecting the rules.
imagine disagreeing with the admin that his decision was not harsh enough

[Agux909]

PUNCTUATION FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

I'm sething.

[sinfulbliss]

Ehh sort of an edge case here. The fact there were ~35 players says to me he is probably completely correct in that if he wasn't the HoS, no one would have been the HoS, and a HoS that fucks off to space for 20 minutes with the intention to come back later is probably still arguably better than no HoS. A bit of a stretch since there's still a chance a HoS that actually wants to play on station for 20 min comes on, but again on 35pop LRP it's extremely unlikely.

There's also the fact this rule isn't really written down anywhere. The only similar rule players see is that you need to ahelp before leaving the game or suiciding as command roles, but this isn't either of those things. That said captain players that spend the whole round in space with someone or command players that suicide after 10 min or go SSD the entire round are incredibly annoying and it should be discouraged. I'm not sure if exploring space for a bit and then dying is quite the same.

[Archie700]

Ehh sort of an edge case here. The fact there were ~35 players says to me he is probably completely correct in that if he wasn't the HoS, no one would have been the HoS, and a HoS that fucks off to space for 20 minutes with the intention to come back later is probably still arguably better than no HoS. A bit of a stretch since there's still a chance a HoS that actually wants to play on station for 20 min comes on, but again on 35pop LRP it's extremely unlikely.

There's also the fact this rule isn't really written down anywhere. The only similar rule players see is that you need to ahelp before leaving the game or suiciding as command roles, but this isn't either of those things. That said captain players that spend the whole round in space with someone or command players that suicide after 10 min or go SSD the entire round are incredibly annoying and it should be discouraged. I'm not sure if exploring space for a bit and then dying is quite the same.

Code: Select all

09:35:08	ACCESS	Mob Login: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human		
09:35:08	GAME	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) Client Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has taken ownership of mob Seth Deces(/mob/living/carbon/human)	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:35:46	ACCESS	Logout: Hoolny/(Seth Deces)		
09:35:46	GAME	Hoolny[DC]/(Seth Deces) Hoolny[DC]/(Seth Deces) is no longer owning mob Seth Deces(/mob/living/carbon/human)	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:37:26	ACCESS	Mob Login: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human		
09:37:26	GAME	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) Client Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has taken ownership of mob Seth Deces(/mob/living/carbon/human)	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:38:28	OOC	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "sybil people think"	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:38:59	OOC	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "there is 23 people in bagil 20 here if we all move to bagil then we can have 43 pop"	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:38:59	OOC	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "plus bagil is crashing less"	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:39:21	OOC	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "your loss"	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:39:59	EMOTE	Monkepower394/(Micheal Barrons) points at Seth Deces	(120, 173, 2)	Security Office09:40:09	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "normal"	(119, 175, 2)	Security Office
09:48:04	EMOTE	*no key*/(space carp) gnashes at Seth Deces.	(122, 92, 4)	Space
09:54:44	EMOTE	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) seizes up and falls limp, their eyes dead and lifeless...	(135, 178, 4)	Space

Code: Select all

09:46:00	SAY	Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) "Why does my cargo tech have the disk Captain?"	(78, 141, 2)	Delivery Office
09:46:25	SAY	Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) "Can you go find the captain"	(80, 143, 2)	Delivery Office
09:47:09	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "Are you ok Captain? You're off both the crew monitor and cameras"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber
09:47:57	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "I think the Captain amy already be dead"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber		
09:50:35	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "The Captains missing in action"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber
09:53:39	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "Yah don't be like the acting Captain who's already dissapeared off of cameras and the monitor"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber	
10:07:10	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "Still no sign of the acting Captain"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber
10:09:46	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "We're not going to be able to get any ID changes until an actual Hop or Captain comes along"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber
10:09:56	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "Because the acting Captain dissapeared"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber	
10:10:54	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) (priority announcement) "Law 2 request. We have no Captain as the acting Captain instantly dissapeared into the void."	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber	
10:27:58	SAY	TagGamerGame2/(B O B) "The acting Captain vanished off suit sensors and cameras in the first ten minutes"	(214, 144, 2)	AI Chamber

Seth literally went off to space within less than 15 minutes and died in space a few minutes later. He was roundstart acting Captain and did not announce that to anyone at all.

The argument that "If I wasn't there there would probably wouldn't have being a HoS" doesn't hold water because he died in space with his ID early in the round which means now not only there is no HoS, there will never be another and since he was acting Captain no one could change IDs until the actual HoP came way later.

[sinfulbliss]

Seth literally went off to space within less than 15 minutes and died in space a few minutes later. He was roundstart acting Captain and did not announce that to anyone at all.

There's also the fact this rule isn't really written down anywhere. The only similar rule players see is that you need to ahelp before leaving the game or suiciding as command roles, but this isn't either of those things.

I checked the Rule 5 precedents before I posted. "Command roles require a minimum of effort." What's a minimum of effort? "Generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart." This question is answered for us. We do not have to hypothesize about what a minimum of effort is because they tell us in the rule. The precedents go on to include suiciding and ghosting, but it's definitely not clear Rule 5 encompasses exploring space for a while on a lowpop round where often there's no sec or HoS anyway because of how relaxed things (usually) are.

[Agux909]

If you want to explore space pick literally anything that's not a role with responsabilities?
Access don't matter in space anyway.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Ehh sort of an edge case here. The fact there were ~35 players says to me he is probably completely correct in that if he wasn't the HoS, no one would have been the HoS, and a HoS that fucks off to space for 20 minutes with the intention to come back later is probably still arguably better than no HoS. A bit of a stretch since there's still a chance a HoS that actually wants to play on station for 20 min comes on, but again on 35pop LRP it's extremely unlikely

Axle we didn't see him for the entire shift, no one knew where he was. It actually WOULD have been better if he didnt sign up for hos, because at least then someone else could have been the acting captain, gotten the spare and the nuke disk, and ran hopline. He was an active detriment to the shift overall.

[Boot]

Man Vekter can't even get this right, why give him a blanket sec ban for a note talking about him not taking command seriously? Give him a command role ban instead hello.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Man Vekter can't even get this right, why give him a blanket sec ban for a note talking about him not taking command seriously? Give him a command role ban instead hello.

Well, this is true actually, it should be a command ban instead.

[Vekter]

Man Vekter can't even get this right, why give him a blanket sec ban for a note talking about him not taking command seriously? Give him a command role ban instead hello.

Fair point, I'll change it to that.

[Ziiro]

If you want complete freedom to fuck around just play assistant, it's not that hard. You don't need gear for shit! I will never understand taking an actual role for when you want to do shit like this.

[Turbonerd]

I don't think Seth gets it. This appeal should extend their ban.

[Bjarl]

Also, are you supposed to interpret rules? aren't they supposed to be written down things

Dude....

[saprasam]

i remember observing seth once, and he immediately killed a heretic with a unica, then died to a blob

[TheSmallBlue]

Back when I was just learning ss13 I literally did the same things and I got the same punishment.



Find it kinda cool admins are this consistent even 3 years later lol

[Tearling]

I don't think Seth gets it. This appeal should extend their ban.

As worthy of a case as this would likely be, there are numerous reasons why it's a bad idea to extend bans due to appeals.
If your ban could be extended simply for disagreeing with an admin, it would discourage everyone from appealing bad punishments.

[chocolate_bickie]

I mean, rolling a restricted role then fucking off to another z level is never good.

Pretty consistently been cause for a job ban unless you have a good reason (chaplain getting a pet carp, CE building abandoned tele base etc).

Heads espically are supposed to be mediators, as they have final say over their department.

[Kendrickorium]

not a terrible thread name, not great either, but at least some thought was put into it, so I'll give this one to ya

[Archie700]

Trying not to be peanut but what actually is the responsibility of HOS

For example, CE has the responsibility to set up the SM and they stay true to that and normally do.

But HOS players do not actually fill an informational / logistical role for the security team, at least not normally. Usually this is the responsibility of the Warden and this is what birthed the "warden out of brig" meme.

Another coordination tool that sec players tend to rely on is actually the AI itself.

Arming the sec team by opening the armory can be seen as a responsibility of the HOS but, again, usually by the time that is necessary the HOS is dead in maintenance from valid hunting and its up to the warden or someone else with access to open (Or the sec team just breaks in)

I just do not see an actual responsibility that Seth neglected to fulfill that most hos players do not also neglect to fulfill.

Then the HoS you saw must be outright terrible then

[Bdudy]

I checked the Rule 5 precedents before I posted. "Command roles require a minimum of effort." What's a minimum of effort? "Generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart." This question is answered for us. We do not have to hypothesize about what a minimum of effort is because they tell us in the rule. The precedents go on to include suiciding and ghosting, but it's definitely not clear Rule 5 encompasses exploring space for a while on a lowpop round where often there's no sec or HoS anyway because of how relaxed things (usually) are.

You cannot put in the minimum amount of effort required to fulfill your command role if you have completely vanished.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

"what's a minimum amount of effort? I demand you define a minimum amount of effort!"

How about "existing on the station" and "not being SSD"

2 issues Seth constantly has as command.

[Farquaar]

My man's keyboard lost its period key

[Epicgamer545]

>joins as HOS & acting captain
>goes to space only to never come back
>refuses to elaborate

Yeah, I don’t think they know what command members even do.

[johnfulpwillard]

reading the thread and the discussion on discord, I think of seth sec as "The Head Of Security Exists To Kill Antagonists. My Job Is To Find The Antagonist And To Kill Them As Efficiently As Possible. The Antagonist Must Die. I Must Be The One To Kill The Antagonist."

[saprasam]

i hope the headmins wait for the ban to end before posting their headmin review

[Qbmax32]

bro just play assistant if you want to fuck off into space 90% of hops will give you EVA access and you can just break in and leave if they dont

[Thunder11]

…and you can just break in and leave if they dont

What’re they gonna do, arrest you?