Progression Changeling Brainstorming thread

[The Wrench]

So what would you all like to see in the event of a Progression style rework of the changeling?

Personally, I am a huge fan of the prototype series, so I would love to see more of absorbing certain people or objects to unlock certain abilities, such as absorbing a monkey to gain shapechange.

I also happen to be a huge fan of the relatively new game the eternal cylinder (You should all play it right now <3). In the game, your main player, character gains powers based on physical foods they eat. Maybe we could add some emergent gameplay with the chef and add new changeling powers? Under this point, I would not want to lock any of the existing powers under this sub system because that’s just blatantly Unfun.

[wesoda25]

God please no more progression antags

[Timonk]

A reference to Gupta. I wonder what happened to him.

[Turbonerd]

If the changeling has a progression system, it should be simple. Maybe absorbing (real people, not monkeys) could add an additional DNA point to spend? I'm not a fan of traitor's progression style. It is too involved with its own system rather than the rest of the game.

[saprasam]

no more progression antags please

[Kendrickorium]

i swear to fucking god this place is hollywood


absolutely zero original thought just remakes rehashes and sequels to shit that already exists, while canceling the shit they dont like

good lord what a shitty timeline this world has become

[Jacquerel]

I think it’s odd how there’s (I think?) one single ability you can unlock by absorbing people (spiders) and perhaps more use could be made of that system but I don’t think we should be locking any existing abilities behind time or achievement.

Prog Traitor despite what else it might do mostly exists to gate mass-destruction until midway through the round, Changelings are individually quite deadly but they don’t have any equivalent to bombs which needs a time lock.

[Bawhoppennn]

Every normal human should have a unique special gene in them

If a ling finds the right person then they can steal it and use it as an ability by eating them

TLDR: Lings start weak as shit and have to be stealthy, but as they eat people each person gives something- but it's random so it's not total powergame shit

[TheLoLSwat]

less is more. If you want to make changelings feel like they are "progressing" just give dna points for absorbing and maybe up the price on certain (ADRENALS but idk what else) abilities to 3 instead of 2. This would also allow changelings to get some nasty abilities back too with justification being "but its 12 points surely nobody would get all of it to spend on that?"
If you want an excess of cool abilities, youll need to put yourself at risk absorbing people. If you still want to do stealthy ling stuff, youll be able to hide behind the guy trying to speedrun absorbing everyone to be 10 ability Allen

edit: abilities i would change
adrenal sacs 2 > 3 obvious
fleshmend 2 > 3 obvious
transformation sting 3 > 2 funny
spread infestation 8 points so its possible roundstart but you would fuck youself over by dumping your points to have spiderman spiders
Phermone Receptors 2 > 1 should be basekit imo but some weirdos actually hunt their ling friends
Lings should also be able to go horror form again and slightly weaker than an ascended heretic (like they used to i think)

I also happen to be a huge fan of the relatively new game the eternal cylinder (You should all play it right now <3). In the game, your main player, character gains powers based on physical foods they eat. Maybe we could add some emergent gameplay with the chef and add new changeling powers? Under this point, I would not want to lock any of the existing powers under this sub system because that’s just blatantly Unfun.

changelings eat people, not food

TLDR: lings should be free to be whatever type of monster they want, but they should atleast be nudged towards being a monster. creeping through maint and eating people while CMO screams over comms wondering why people are going missing is a great narrative. Spending your points on a few abilities and going ballistic charging into sec because you think you can take them is also a great narrative and can take the heat off of tiders or other antags. Both playstyles should be encouraged and both are better than just going fleshmend, adrenals, AE, biodegrade, and ignoring absorbs to be a stronger traitor which is how a lot of current ling rounds are

[HeyHey]

I would like to see progression antags forgotten and never repeated.

[iwishforducks]

[BeeSting12]

Not a fan of this whole progression antag thing tg's decided to adopt. Traitor gives a lot less leeway to do something creative now because you have to go do a bunch of bullshit objectives noone cares about to buy anything useful. By the time you've done all that the round's almost over. Makes it a lot harder to do gimmicks which require the use of certain items. The objectives are also dumb. Who cares if the captains office is bugged? The only reason it's relevant is because a traitor did it.

[AlamoTurtle]

Agreeing with all the above points. Changelings are good because they are shapeshifting monsters capable of being the kind of flesh freak they want to be to cause mass panic to the crew while feasting off their "coworkers". If you add progression to it, you'll see more changelings dying off early, as if changelings haven't already infiltrated the ship BECAUSE they are just that adapted and have already done the aforementioned "build-up". Changelings don't need progression, though as a fan of the prototype series too, I think the idea of unique benefits for consuming others would be neat, such as recognizing airlock wires by consuming anyone that has a skillchip for it (engineers) or similar (eating a chef to learn CQC [maybe not]), so they can get a variety meal for all the cool shit.

Though, despite it all, I hate the idea of progression traitors, progression changelings, and any of that as long as it's not an optional experimental strain that comes as a challenge you can take. You know... like how Contractors were progression traitors which was an entirely optional, badass, and tough challenge for the best traitors to take, at least, before that was removed and ultimately the experience slapped onto all traitors in the form of abduct objectives and earning TC from side jobs. Yeah, I liked it when progression traitors were an optional choice with the long-term benefits being much more substantial.

Do not kill off the identity of changelings in your pursuit for "progression". They're unique as they are.

[kayozz]

Why do we need more progression antags considering prog-traitor is much derided and caused numerous issues.
This is a bad idea and I agree with everyone saying it's a bad idea.

[krimmity]

no more progression antags please

[CPTANT]

I think it's super weird that the one antag that is the most logical for progression isn't, while even traitors for some reason are now. The premise of ling has always been that you ambush people and suck them dry. I think just getting more DNA points for absorbing people is fine.

Also ling should have spiders removed, dumb power that doesn't fit at all with the rest of the antag.

[kinnebian]

cling should get more powers that arent just direct upgrades or boring healing/adrenals to encourage players to have some variety in how they play it, its very much a one note antag right now

[Jacquerel]

I do think that changelings can do with more powers in general, just don’t tie them to a progression system.

[dirk_mcblade]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

[nianjiilical]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

antag that starts off deliberately overpowered but becomes weaker every time someone dies on the station, so the crew is encouraged to commit mass ritual sacrifices in order to kill them

[Bawhoppennn]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

antag that starts off deliberately overpowered but becomes weaker every time someone dies on the station, so the crew is encouraged to commit mass ritual sacrifices in order to kill them

Finally some good fucking ideas

[TheLoLSwat]

even if progression is a bit dumb, the idea behind it is good and the way it’s implemented just needs a bit of tweaking (like non-destructive items being locked behind too many rep ppints)

[Featherfield]

Worst idea of 2023

[CMDR_Gungnir]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

antag that starts off deliberately overpowered but becomes weaker every time someone dies on the station, so the crew is encouraged to commit mass ritual sacrifices in order to kill them

Devil 2: Good look getting your souls if we're all dead, fucko.

[Armhulen]

funniest thread i've ever seen hahaha, the immediate "please god no" reaction

[TheLoLSwat]

funniest thread i've ever seen hahaha, the immediate "please god no" reaction

being forced to become creative to get tasks done if they want more tc or (god forbid) skip the wait for bombs is too much

[Armhulen]

believe me i agree

[oranges]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

antag that starts off deliberately overpowered but becomes weaker every time someone dies on the station, so the crew is encouraged to commit mass ritual sacrifices in order to kill them

that's actually revs cause they depend on people being alive to convert but if all the non mindshielded crew are dead it's easy crew win

[RedBaronFlyer]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

If you really wanted to gimp wizards, you could have a magicka pool (like Morrowind) that doesn't regen, and each spell takes away from that pool. At a certain point, the wizard becomes a fancily dressed person with a stick. Adjust the magicka pool based on the player pop. (or take the dynamic approach where you pinky swear that it is totally designed around lowpop as well but give the wizard way more magicka in proportion to the crew on low pop to encourage even more of why playing lowpop dynamic sucks) It would then become a game to see if the wizard murder the station/force a shuttle call before they run out of magicka. It would also help kill any inefficient wizard combat gimmicks since traitor also got most of its ability to do gimmicks before 30 minutes into a round got killed via progtot.

(the above thing is a joke for the love of god do not implement this shit idea Goof/Oranges)

Also no prog-anythings. Remove progtot, add oldtot, readd contractors as well. Readd thief but tweak the objectives to make them less stupid and allow them to have some access to tcs in exchange for not being able to order full-on weaponry.

[Annihilite111]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

Reposting my ling rework idea from the coders bad thread i made a few days ago:

"Ling rework where they have to succ people occasionally to survive, and undergo a biological readaptation process if they eat too much, becoming more powerful gorger-lings but having to eat more often and losing their ability to blend in. You can play a low metabolism stealth-ling, ravenous gorger-ling or anything in between! You too can roleplay as the Thing and die horribly to flamethrowers!"

[dirk_mcblade]

They should make a regression system where you start with all abilities and gradually lose them unless you husk people.

Reposting my ling rework idea from the coders bad thread i made a few days ago:

"Ling rework where they have to succ people occasionally to survive, and undergo a biological readaptation process if they eat too much, becoming more powerful gorger-lings but having to eat more often and losing their ability to blend in. You can play a low metabolism stealth-ling, ravenous gorger-ling or anything in between! You too can roleplay as the Thing and die horribly to flamethrowers!"

Too busy locking hypnoflash behind 300 rep

[MooCow12]

Ling progression should be them learning how to transform into something that isnt.....yet another normal humanoid...is there a lore reason why they cant absorb and transform into ian or a balance one.

[vect0r]

Don't remove anything from ling, I want all my cool powers. If you decided to add an otherworldly horror phase, I would love it.
Or needing to absorb bodies.

[Jacquerel]

Ling progression should be them learning how to transform into something that isnt.....yet another normal humanoid...is there a lore reason why they cant absorb and transform into ian or a balance one.

The inability to transform into Ian (or even a wolf on Icebox) is a big loss for The Thing flavour honestly, that would be a good add.

[vect0r]

Yeah, if you could transform into ian or something, it would be really cool.

[Kendrickorium]

I JUST WANT MY ROUND START SYNDICATE BOMBS AGAIN

THE NEWFRIENDS MUST LEARN THE FEAR OF HEARING "SUNSHINE DAY BOMB" IN THE FIRST 3 MINUTES OF A ROUND

[wesoda25]

I JUST WANT MY ROUND START SYNDICATE BOMBS AGAIN

THE NEWFRIENDS MUST LEARN THE FEAR OF HEARING "SUNSHINE DAY BOMB" IN THE FIRST 3 MINUTES OF A ROUND

You’re the reason we have to SLAVE away at objectives we don’t want to do in order to do what we want to do, stfu

[wesoda25]

Mfer *punches hole in wall

[oranges]

I JUST WANT MY ROUND START SYNDICATE BOMBS AGAIN

THE NEWFRIENDS MUST LEARN THE FEAR OF HEARING "SUNSHINE DAY BOMB" IN THE FIRST 3 MINUTES OF A ROUND

You’re the reason we have to SLAVE away at objectives we don’t want to do in order to do what we want to do, stfu

First time i've seen prog traitor hate directed at the people responsible for it

[Armhulen]

I JUST WANT MY ROUND START SYNDICATE BOMBS AGAIN

THE NEWFRIENDS MUST LEARN THE FEAR OF HEARING "SUNSHINE DAY BOMB" IN THE FIRST 3 MINUTES OF A ROUND

and with that, sunshine cursed every future player to progtots

[Armhulen]

(because this is why we can't have nice things)

[iwishforducks]

the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots

[Armhulen]

the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots

I felt this way and then I realized that is kind of exactly what progtots actually is. The objectives are there to make you get the timelocked shit a little faster if you do the objectives.
I'm convinced there is a serious negative psychological effect progtots is applying but I can't present that as an argument, that is a hunch at best

[Jacquerel]

I think there’s definitely a psychological effect of having a list of tasks that a player could be doing which just breaks some people’s brains into doing something they don’t like (see: MMOs, anything with grinding in it)
but also it... should be more fun to be able to do little tasks to push the timelock earlier than it is not to? So my focus is mostly on just trying to make the tasks more fun and impactful

[iwishforducks]

the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots

I felt this way and then I realized that is kind of exactly what progtots actually is. The objectives are there to make you get the timelocked shit a little faster if you do the objectives.
I'm convinced there is a serious negative psychological effect progtots is applying but I can't present that as an argument, that is a hunch at best

there are a few underlying problems with prog tot

1. humans are great opportunity cost evaluators.
you simply do not “ignore” things in life. you first evaluate everything you *can* do and then decide on what to do. this kind of logical reasoning varies in people, but let’s break down the opportunity costs of objectives:

- you don’t do objectives: you gain no TC. you save time that you would be doing on objectives, but even then, the time save is debatable when you become behind the curve in terms of reputation if you don’t, missing out on items

- you do objectives: you gain TC (huge bonus), you save time by becoming ahead of the reputation curve, unlocking items. how many items do you need to unlock? well all of them because you have a theoretical infinite supply of TC. don’t stop me now

when you break down the opportunity costs of doing objective it becomes VERY clear which one speaks to the monkey brain ooh ah ah. making a decision isn’t just about doing the objectives, it’s also the fact that everything is…

2. EVERY FUCKING ITEM IS TIME LOCKED HOLY SHIT WHY. god bless america! please reconsider this. do not forget the reason why prog tots was conceived: to stop mindless medical bombings at shift start. just put a timelock on problematic items. i shouldn’t have to wait some time just to get fun items like the chameleon projector or The Box. speaking of which…

3. the reputation system obfuscates how long things are time-locked for. i literally have no idea how long 1 reputation point takes to passively get. i get the reason why it’s a thing: because it seems a little cheesy and corny to have it be just a real Timer, and “reputation” gives a good lore reason. but for god’s sake it just makes it confusing. like i said, humans are great opportunity costs evaluators, and when the benefit of ignoring objectives is “saving time” but the gain of doing objectives is “saving time” then it’s not fucking clear at all which actually saves more time.

[Jacquerel]

It is not true that every item is time locked.
The chameleon projector is not time locked. The stealth implant is also not time locked.

Generally speaking the only things which are time locked are weapons or items which cause very widespread effects.
There is absolutely a need to audit the rep requirements on items and there’s some bizarre ones in there (nonslip galoshes??) but the ones you have mentioned already have no time lock.

[wesoda25]

Even when I do tasks it feels as if it doesn't help. Probably because the care I take in doing them results in them taking a while (I don't want to run the risk of ruining my gimmick by becoming wanted, or locked up, or dead, or spending too much TC). Of late I've simply given up on most locked equipment and try to accomplish my gimmicks with what's readily available. It's lame.

[Itseasytosee2me]

the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots

This is an improvement, but I think another compramise would be a huge simplification of the reputation system.

Something along the line of “this objective gives 1 or 2 progression points” and you get a free progression point every 15 (or whatever) minutes.

I’m also not a fan of the flavor of “reputation.” Even calling it something like “trust” would work better.

If you wanted to go really crazy, we could look into making traitor progression shared among all traitors.

[Armhulen]

It is not true that every item is time locked.
The chameleon projector is not time locked. The stealth implant is also not time locked.

Generally speaking the only things which are time locked are weapons or items which cause very widespread effects.
There is absolutely a need to audit the rep requirements on items and there’s some bizarre ones in there (nonslip galoshes??) but the ones you have mentioned already have no time lock.

Damn, people straight writing fairy tales in here

[Armhulen]

If you wanted to go really crazy, we could look into making traitor progression shared among all traitors.

"Syndicate Influence" over the station increasing over time from all the agent's actions. Kinda cool! A global way to make sure SOMEONE is antagonizing a little while the rest cook