in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
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- kinnebian
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in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
respect (let him do his thing)
- The Wrench
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
- Byond Username: The Wrench
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Certified Manuel moment.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
- Fren256
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Hold it guys, we can't discuss this appeal till the round is over
- Vekter
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I'm going to start encouraging other admins to give more severe bans if people demonstrate shitty behavior in tickets.
We're all adults here, there are processes for handling matters where you don't agree with an admin. There is never any justification for shit like this:
Also server tribalism is the height of cringe.
E: Also also the ban was justified, he was told to get the guy healed (which is required by escalation rules) and he refused.
We're all adults here, there are processes for handling matters where you don't agree with an admin. There is never any justification for shit like this:
I'm not going to defend that Drag was also kind of terse with him early in the ticket, though. He didn't need to be like that.Fuck you and your out of touch interpretation. That person should not be playing here.
Also server tribalism is the height of cringe.
E: Also also the ban was justified, he was told to get the guy healed (which is required by escalation rules) and he refused.
Last edited by Vekter on Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- dendydoom
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
whether it's with a firelock or your fists it warms my heart to know that the one thing unifying us all across the rifts of server culture is murdering someone for taking the toolbelt you wanted
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
NSFW:
- Drag
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I'm gonna say this once: Vigilante behavior is not welcome or kindly looked upon by the admin team.
-
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I wouldn't call identity theft minor. This entire situation was kinda cringe for all sides in this one.
- dendydoom
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
i am hesitant to post this in the actual appeal because it's valid, relevant information but there is nothing in the rules that says stealing an item off the floor is self-antagging. being annoying, yes. behaviour deserving of a smackdown, yes. but not against the rules. even manuel's escalation policy says all that stealing shit does is revoke your right to escalate when the person turns up to slap the piss out of you, and the thief didn't retaliate at all. the appealer has no way of knowing what the thief's IC reason might be, and deciding to retaliate in such an OOCly motivated way (must kill shitter!!!!!!) is poor form for the RP server.
however escalation policy says:
however escalation policy says:
so yeah seems like the appellant was the only one in this situation that broke the rules. totally understand being mildly frustrated at the inconvenience of getting your tools yoinked by some bored jerkoff moments after getting blown up but really not something to flip out over, it's just unnecessary.If you are wronged, you are expected to handle the conflict non-lethally whenever possible, escalating in severity as the conflict continues.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
NSFW:
- Fren256
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:10 pm
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Shouldn't have ahelped, admins aren't babysitters. Also yeah Linden is a pain in the ass, but I think critting him was too much. Throwing him below the tracks without tabling would've sufficed.
- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
That would be fine to put in the appeal, as it directs attention to the relevant policy instead of just being a one-off comment about the situationdendydoom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:17 am i am hesitant to post this in the actual appeal because it's valid, relevant information but there is nothing in the rules that says stealing an item off the floor is self-antagging. being annoying, yes. behaviour deserving of a smackdown, yes. but not against the rules. even manuel's escalation policy says all that stealing shit does is revoke your right to escalate when the person turns up to slap the piss out of you, and the thief didn't retaliate at all. the appealer has no way of knowing what the thief's IC reason might be, and deciding to retaliate in such an OOCly motivated way (must kill shitter!!!!!!) is poor form for the RP server.
however escalation policy says:so yeah seems like the appellant was the only one in this situation that broke the rules. totally understand being mildly frustrated at the inconvenience of getting your tools yoinked by some bored jerkoff moments after getting blown up but really not something to flip out over, it's just unnecessary.If you are wronged, you are expected to handle the conflict non-lethally whenever possible, escalating in severity as the conflict continues.
- Scriptis
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
this guy is always so angry when he's online. he's like that one player from your tf2 6s team in 2013 who sperged out on everyone whenever your team lost
or an average player in your call of duty mw2 xbox live lobby
or an average player in your call of duty mw2 xbox live lobby
- Misdoubtful
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- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
people who steal from medical patients deserve nothing less than beheading and being thrown out the airlock what the fuck is this shit
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
i will say that baal is an extreme hothead and had it coming but like come the fuck on are we really letting escalation policy protect dipshits like that
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Archie700
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Should a person be noted or banned for OOC in IC if they post an appeal before the round ends.
I think they should.
I think they should.
- Drag
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
- Byond Username: Thedragmeme
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I'm going to start using this every time an escalation case comes upMisdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:35 am How many times do I have to link this video everywhere?
https://youtu.be/m5Ye_dAge-4
If you take an eye for an eye eventually the world will turn blind. People who deserve permas will get them in due time, in the meantime two wrongs don't make any situation right. Otherwise, we'd have worse server culture than we already do.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:59 am i will say that baal is an extreme hothead and had it coming but like come the fuck on are we really letting escalation policy protect dipshits like that
- Armhulen
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
This is just something I've been seeing often, personally I'm more of a "this is why i'm worried about unbanning you" than a "i've decided i'm not unbanning you" kinda guy. A lotta people need more than one post to reach a conclusion where they have learned they fucked up in some way. I dunno, what do you think guys?
- dendydoom
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
i don't think anyone would disagree it was shithead behaviour on the assistant's part. imo admins could very easily investigate an ahelp on this and ask the assistant to have a better IC reason in future but the problem lies in the fact that the appealer ahelped, went "TOO SLOW I WANT JUSTICE NOW!!!!!!!!!" and then took it into their own hands to beat them to death for an entirely OOC reason thus breaking the rules themselves in the process and removing all goodwill from anyone involved who might want to help their issue. there's a story in here somewhere about someone who tried to have a cake and eat it too. or a toolbelt. something.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:59 am i will say that baal is an extreme hothead and had it coming but like come the fuck on are we really letting escalation policy protect dipshits like that
at the end of the day there's an issue with low effort borderline rulebreaking LRP behaviour on the MRP server but there's also an issue with trigger happy RP purists who will look for any reason to validate removing people from the round for behaviour they don't like in an entirely OOC way. both are bad.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
NSFW:
- Archie700
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Drag basically explained everything that could be explained in one post and response and the player was being unapologetic. Since Baal violated escalation policy by throwing the crit person down the undertram and refusing to pick him up until he got healed, as well as hostility in ahelps when confronted:Armhulen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:41 amThis is just something I've been seeing often, personally I'm more of a "this is why i'm worried about unbanning you" than a "i've decided i'm not unbanning you" kinda guy. A lotta people need more than one post to reach a conclusion where they have learned they fucked up in some way. I dunno, what do you think guys?
AND further hostility in the appeal:He didn't return my stuff, and he wasn't supposed to be stealing my shit to begin with as a non-antag. Fuck you.
muffindrake ➡ thedragmeme
Most likely Drag concluded: "Not even worth entertaining an unban."Why you think you should be unbanned: The admin listed 'being insulting because I didn't receive the outcome I wanted' in the ticket, but the admin did _nothing_ do begin with before deciding to ban me, so what's the deal here? They accuse me of server tribalism since I told them that the player in question belongs on Terry since they were being a self-antagging asshole. This is funny because I still mostly play on Terry, and self-antagging-adjacent behaviour is more expected there to begin with. Also, handing a person that was just griefed by a player that had broken the rules to begin with a punishment is the most dystopian thing you could possibly do at that moment. Insults are warranted since the admin was obviously out of touch.
- iwishforducks
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Iwishforducks
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
in my humble fucking opinion, the game is best when players can handle things IC while also OOCly asking the DMs to, you know, double check their work first off but to also speak to the offending player personally and making sure the behavior doesn't repeat- something we shouldn't be expecting our players to do. (and if a player is taking that responsibility PLEASE admin them ASAP.) are you seriously suggesting that if someone is being a dick then we should stop drop and ahelp and stop all in character actions? or should we turn the server into 24/7 deathmatch by being expected to handle all things ICly? these are hypotheticals, because, frankly, your stance on this issue confuses to me several degrees.Drag wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:14 amI'm going to start using this every time an escalation case comes upMisdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:35 am How many times do I have to link this video everywhere?
https://youtu.be/m5Ye_dAge-4
If you take an eye for an eye eventually the world will turn blind. People who deserve permas will get them in due time, in the meantime two wrongs don't make any situation right. Otherwise, we'd have worse server culture than we already do.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:59 am i will say that baal is an extreme hothead and had it coming but like come the fuck on are we really letting escalation policy protect dipshits like that
"People who deserve permas will get them in due time" - again, see above, but also what kind of complex do you have going inside your head? do you truly believe that people are just... deserving to get permas in due time? if you think someone has poor behavior then you should be pulling them aside and trying to get them to correct their behavior, not waiting for the day you can assblast them. there are people deserving permabans, but if we're going to run a business of "perma in due time" then all hope is lost for this administration. like full stop there.
"Otherwise, we'd have worse server culture than we already do." - im bringing this up only because you brought it up and i think it's a good introspective question: what IS the current server culture you take issue with? refer to paragraph's 1 hypotheticals of "do we ban people for ahelping" or "do we ban people for dealing with things ICly"
also we're all running this on the assumption that baal was in the wrong for beating the shit out of someone for stealing their shit. stealing from medical patients is just kicking puppies that just got shot- they're already down a leg and it's just insult to injury. like... there's a reason they're in medical bay. i also don't think the assistant giving the ID to an engineer was an acceptable action either. the engineer could have been an antagonist and they also have no responsibility for this mess. it's the assistant's responsibility first and foremost to give Baal their ID back, not some random engineer.
Last edited by iwishforducks on Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Vekter
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
You make a good point. I'll say that I usually only go this hard if I'm convinced there's no real point in unbanning someone, especially if their appeal reads less like "Yes, I made a mistake, I'm sorry" and more like "I DIDN'T BREAK THE RULES FUCK YOU".Armhulen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:41 amThis is just something I've been seeing often, personally I'm more of a "this is why i'm worried about unbanning you" than a "i've decided i'm not unbanning you" kinda guy. A lotta people need more than one post to reach a conclusion where they have learned they fucked up in some way. I dunno, what do you think guys?
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- Armhulen
- Global Moderator
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
For sure, in this case I see the fair reasoning. I only bring it up because it's a general pattern I've noticed.Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:51 amDrag basically explained everything that could be explained in one post and response and the player was being unapologetic. Since Baal violated escalation policy by throwing the crit person down the undertram and refusing to pick him up until he got healed, as well as hostility in ahelps when confronted:Armhulen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:41 amThis is just something I've been seeing often, personally I'm more of a "this is why i'm worried about unbanning you" than a "i've decided i'm not unbanning you" kinda guy. A lotta people need more than one post to reach a conclusion where they have learned they fucked up in some way. I dunno, what do you think guys?
AND further hostility in the appeal:He didn't return my stuff, and he wasn't supposed to be stealing my shit to begin with as a non-antag. Fuck you.
muffindrake ➡ thedragmeme
Most likely Drag concluded: "Not even worth entertaining an unban."Why you think you should be unbanned: The admin listed 'being insulting because I didn't receive the outcome I wanted' in the ticket, but the admin did _nothing_ do begin with before deciding to ban me, so what's the deal here? They accuse me of server tribalism since I told them that the player in question belongs on Terry since they were being a self-antagging asshole. This is funny because I still mostly play on Terry, and self-antagging-adjacent behaviour is more expected there to begin with. Also, handing a person that was just griefed by a player that had broken the rules to begin with a punishment is the most dystopian thing you could possibly do at that moment. Insults are warranted since the admin was obviously out of touch.
amen to that. give no respect, and don't expect any backVekter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:55 amYou make a good point. I'll say that I usually only go this hard if I'm convinced there's no real point in unbanning someone, especially if their appeal reads less like "Yes, I made a mistake, I'm sorry" and more like "I DIDN'T BREAK THE RULES FUCK YOU".Armhulen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:41 amThis is just something I've been seeing often, personally I'm more of a "this is why i'm worried about unbanning you" than a "i've decided i'm not unbanning you" kinda guy. A lotta people need more than one post to reach a conclusion where they have learned they fucked up in some way. I dunno, what do you think guys?
- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
i would be inclined to agree if drag's ticket didn't begin with a threat
Also I will slab you if you do not take that assistant to medbay, as it is part of our escalation policy.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Archie700
- In-Game Admin
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
In my humble bloody opinion, this is the type of ahelp that becomes a nightmare to resolve because now you have to take into account actions before and after the ahelp, which can change the situation drastically.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:55 am\
in my humble fucking opinion, the game is best when players can handle things IC while also OOCly asking the DMs to, you know, double check their work first off but to also speak to the offending player personally and making sure the behavior doesn't repeat- something we shouldn't be expecting our players to do. (and if a player is taking that responsibility PLEASE admin them ASAP.) are you seriously suggesting that if someone is being a dick then we should stop drop and ahelp and stop all in character actions? or should we turn the server into 24/7 deathmatch by being expected to handle all things ICly? these are hypotheticals, because, frankly, your stance on this issue confuses to me several degrees.
Calling the teacher in, then beating the troublemaker to critical condition and throwing him out the railing while the teacher is trying to get a sense of what just happened.
And also telling the teacher to fuck off when they tell you to scoop his body up or face punishment which is explicitly in the school rules.
- iwishforducks
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Iwishforducks
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
they can cry about it if they can't respond to an ahelp in a timely manner. i know it's not very fun to deal with those tickets but there's no way to make this kind of thing easier because the game does not stop if you don't respond to an ahelp immediately. (edit: also to make it clear they did respond to the ahelp within 2 minutes, i am just saying that it's ridiculous to ACTIVELY punish people for taking IC actions after ahelping)Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:13 amIn my humble bloody opinion, this is the type of ahelp that becomes a nightmare to resolve because now you have to take into account actions before and after the ahelp, which can change the system drastically.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:55 am\
in my humble fucking opinion, the game is best when players can handle things IC while also OOCly asking the DMs to, you know, double check their work first off but to also speak to the offending player personally and making sure the behavior doesn't repeat- something we shouldn't be expecting our players to do. (and if a player is taking that responsibility PLEASE admin them ASAP.) are you seriously suggesting that if someone is being a dick then we should stop drop and ahelp and stop all in character actions? or should we turn the server into 24/7 deathmatch by being expected to handle all things ICly? these are hypotheticals, because, frankly, your stance on this issue confuses to me several degrees.
also, for the full history of events:
about 10:02:47 - Linden "loots medical" and steals Baal's toolbelt
Code: Select all
10:02:47 SAY Gal Paladin/(Egret) "Security, Linden is looting medbay" (127, 102, 3) Medbay Treatment Center
10:07:22 - attacked the assistant
10:08:28 - ticket responded to
if you seriously can't deal with a ticket that has no more than 5 minutes of history then ??????????
edit because i was ninja edited:
Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:13 am Calling the teacher in, then beating the troublemaker to critical condition and throwing him out the railing while the teacher is trying to get a sense of what just happened.
And also telling the teacher to fuck off when they tell you to scoop his body up or face punishment which is explicitly in the school rules.
also there were nukies. lot of people dead. no reason to be stealing from patients and fucking around with people in the medical bayiwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:56 am people who steal from medical patients deserve nothing less than beheading and being thrown out the airlock what the fuck is this shit
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Armhulen
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I'm sure it was intended to be more disarming than threatening but yeah that might have just set things off on the wrong foot to begin with.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:04 ami would be inclined to agree if drag's ticket didn't begin with a threat
Also I will slab you if you do not take that assistant to medbay, as it is part of our escalation policy.
- sinfulbliss
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Deserved for retaliating (and winning?) IC and yet still deciding to ahelp.
Throwing them to the undertram shouldn't matter if they were retrieved 15 seconds later. I don't think it's a coincidence they were banned after saying "hell of an admin right here."
I get there are these psychotic, angry, entitled players in ahelps. But you guys gotta stop letting it get to you and levying anger bans over it. Mute them from ahelping for the round and wash your hands of the situation.
I really, really hate this mentality. If someone is griefing you and breaking rules, you CANNOT retaliate! They broke rules, so now it's an OOC issue, hands off! Fuck that dude. If someone steals my ID and belongings while I'm being revived, they can be killed and chucked into the undertram. That is how an IC conflict works, I'm sorry if you dislike people daring to choose violence over malding in a locker for 20 min ahelping.Thedragmeme wrote:Two wrongs do not make a right, it dosent matter if someone "deserved it". If someone is breaking the rules you let us know then go hands off.
Throwing them to the undertram shouldn't matter if they were retrieved 15 seconds later. I don't think it's a coincidence they were banned after saying "hell of an admin right here."
I get there are these psychotic, angry, entitled players in ahelps. But you guys gotta stop letting it get to you and levying anger bans over it. Mute them from ahelping for the round and wash your hands of the situation.
Spoiler:
- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
they ahelped before they beat them upsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:47 am Deserved for retaliating (and winning?) IC and yet still deciding to ahelp.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- sinfulbliss
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Deserved for ahelping then I guess... The absolute stateiwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:00 amthey ahelped before they beat them upsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:47 am Deserved for retaliating (and winning?) IC and yet still deciding to ahelp.
Spoiler:
- dendydoom
- In-Game Head Admin
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
i understand the reasoning for this on its own but in this particular instance there's some level of nuance that i feel people are overlooking if we are going by drag's logs posted in the appeal:sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:47 am Throwing them to the undertram shouldn't matter if they were retrieved 15 seconds later. I don't think it's a coincidence they were banned after saying "hell of an admin right here."
1) the thief supposedly threw the toolbelt they stole back at the atmos tech chasing them
2) the thief explained where their ID was while they were being beaten up, not retaliating at all themselves
3) the atmos tech ignored all of this and killed them anyway, already an overescalation, and threw their body into the undertram when medbay was 5 feet behind them
these are not IC reasons for attacking someone. an IC reason would be "i want my things back, so i'm going to beat the person up that took them until they give them back". this is an OOC "this player did a shitter thing and now I have deemed them a shitter and it is my job to destroy shitters and throw them into the undertram". the entire driving force behind their decision to beat someone to death was because
imo that sort of thing should not be encouraged. reacting ICly to IC issues by escalating to violence? yes, fine. i can agree to that even when something is currently in the nebulous ahelp void. but becoming the shitter police yourself because you deem the admins too cringe and slow to do what you want so now it falls on you to clean up roleplay town of cringe ass nae nae terry toolbelt thieves? bad form, unnecessary and just as harmful to the RP space as the thief having no real IC reason for theft in the first place.They can go be an asshole on Terry.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
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- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I decided to take a nap ffs.
To touch on some points:
I am NOT going to sit and debate with someone who is being hostile when their escalation was just as the escalation they were pointing out. If people don't learn and adapt to the rules they get slapped, simple as. I wouldn't have started the tickets response with a half-baked threat if they didn't open the ticket itself being somewhat hostile. Calling someone a piece of trash is not okay. I would have been more willing to unban them if they just cooled off and approached the appeal with a cooler head and actually reflected on the situation.
Yeah, if you steal from medbay you're a bitch and deserve to be beaten. However, there is a LINE and it was CROSSED. The logs don't show the fact I was typing, had to delete a completely different response, then retype a new thing as I watched the entire thing go down.
To touch on some points:
Basically, yes. When your appeal reads with as much hostility as your ticket does I'm not willing to unban someone.Most likely Drag concluded: "Not even worth entertaining an unban."
Am I wrong for thinking that people who want admins to handle things should step back and let admins handle things? They gave an ahelp and then IMMEDIATELY beat the assistant into crit. What is the point of the admin team if it's just a fucking free for all? I was IN THE MIDDLE of checking antagonist status of everyone involved before responding.I really, really hate this mentality. If someone is griefing you and breaking rules, you CANNOT retaliate!
Nukies spawned AFTER this.also there were nukies
That is not what I fucking meant, Ducks, and you know that.do you truly believe that people are just... deserving to get permas in due time?
I don't like the direction MRP's rules have gone, I tried it and I don't like it. That's just a personal take of mine.What IS the current server culture you take issue with
I have already stated that them retaliating against the assistant is not the problem, the problem is them lethally retaliating and throwing the assistant into the under tram and fucking off.we're all running this on the assumption that baal was in the wrong for beating the shit out of someone for stealing their shit.
I am NOT going to sit and debate with someone who is being hostile when their escalation was just as the escalation they were pointing out. If people don't learn and adapt to the rules they get slapped, simple as. I wouldn't have started the tickets response with a half-baked threat if they didn't open the ticket itself being somewhat hostile. Calling someone a piece of trash is not okay. I would have been more willing to unban them if they just cooled off and approached the appeal with a cooler head and actually reflected on the situation.
Yeah, if you steal from medbay you're a bitch and deserve to be beaten. However, there is a LINE and it was CROSSED. The logs don't show the fact I was typing, had to delete a completely different response, then retype a new thing as I watched the entire thing go down.
- BeeSting12
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
realistically the fucker who stole his stuff deserved to be beaten and critted and thrown under the train
however, the rules specifically forbid that unfortunately
appealer was a dumbass for ahelping and then going and then going to break the rules
appealer was also a dumbass for insulting admins and ignoring requests to follow the rules
however, the rules specifically forbid that unfortunately
appealer was a dumbass for ahelping and then going and then going to break the rules
appealer was also a dumbass for insulting admins and ignoring requests to follow the rules
- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
this is like the third ban appeal where you've planted your feet in the ground, crossed your arms, and said that you're not even going to entertain the appeal. like the appeal is not even that hostile. i've heard snails bark louder than that appeal
this is their reasoning:Drag wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:08 amAm I wrong for thinking that people who want admins to handle things should step back and let admins handle things? They gave an ahelp and then IMMEDIATELY beat the assistant into crit. What is the point of the admin team if it's just a fucking free for all? I was IN THE MIDDLE of checking antagonist status of everyone involved before responding.I really, really hate this mentality. If someone is griefing you and breaking rules, you CANNOT retaliate!
even in baal's dumbass self-righteousness they at least recognize that admins are here to stop future behavior. i don't think baal expected you to kiss the boo boo of stolen items but they probably expect you to, you know, do your job and talk to people.Muffindrake wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:45 pmShortly before this I ahelped to get an admin to talk to the person since they were obviously self-antagging.
apologies, but there were some bodies built up in medical i think. i dont know i like skimmed the logs and saw a mention of nukies and several dead people complaining about medical taking too long to revive them
well what DID you mean then
ok. doesnt seem all that relevant. confused as to why you brought this up in the first place, but ok
how else could they have retaliated? what are they expected to just... use their non existent stun baton to non-lethally retaliate? considering that they had returned AFTER stealing their toolbelt to then steal their ID again I would 100% consider that self-antagging behavior and thus "act like an antag, get treated like an antag" - throwing a two-time medbay thief below the tram and not caring what happens to him is 100% reasonable. you're saying this as if they took precious steps to round remove the assistant when they simply dumped them into the tram maints below in front of like several people. it's not like they were taking them to a fuck off place to make sure they didn't get revived.Drag wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:08 amI have already stated that them retaliating against the assistant is not the problem, the problem is them lethally retaliating and throwing the assistant into the under tram and fucking off.we're all running this on the assumption that baal was in the wrong for beating the shit out of someone for stealing their shit.
so..... they... escalated? ICly? this seems like escalation. when you steal items the conflict doesn't just magically go away once you walk away. also, again, two-time medbay thief, self-antagging, etc.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Fren256
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I'm curious about this. Which rules do you not like and why?
- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I personally believe that more roleplay restrictions should be placed to raise the standards of roleplay BEFORE we open the floodgates with more freedoms. On top of that, a lot of things are not clearly defined and should be. This is a tangent of the original p-nut, I can delve more into my thoughts in Discord if you'd like.
- Jackraxxus
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Server would be better if both sides of this were banned.
Also ban Drag for posting in a peanut about a ban they placed thx.
Also ban Drag for posting in a peanut about a ban they placed thx.
iamgoofball wrote:Vekter and MrMelbert are more likely to enforce the roleplay rules Manuel is supposed to be abiding by than Wesoda or Jackraxxus are.
- conrad
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
We should ban you as well for suggesting this ban. And me for suggesting this ban.Jackraxxus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:43 am Server would be better if both sides of this were banned.
Also ban Drag for posting in a peanut about a ban they placed thx.
I normally go by Ricky. Tell me how'd I do here. ⋆ 𝒯𝒶𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝒶 𝓈𝒶𝒷𝒶𝓉𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁. ⋆
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Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
- datorangebottle
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
We should ban me just because.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Banning Jaxx for gatekeeping a p-nut post that I am allowed to post inJackraxxus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:43 am Server would be better if both sides of this were banned.
Also ban Drag for posting in a peanut about a ban they placed thx.
- Armhulen
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
WHO IS YOUR GHOST WRITER THESE LINES ARE FIREEE
- saprasam
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
the logical conclusion from this discussion is to just kill people who slight you
- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Players with consistently poor gameplay will inevitably eat a perma because typically there is no effort made to improve. Some players do try and improve, and they don't get banned or the people who have been banned come back with a fresher newer attitude that is healthier for them and the server.
- Timberpoes
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Anecdotally, I think the vast majority of players that instantly request headmin review instead of engaging with the admin tend to do so when the admin flat out denies the appeal with no door to continued conversation.Armhulen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:41 amThis is just something I've been seeing often, personally I'm more of a "this is why i'm worried about unbanning you" than a "i've decided i'm not unbanning you" kinda guy. A lotta people need more than one post to reach a conclusion where they have learned they fucked up in some way. I dunno, what do you think guys?
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- kinnebian
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
respect (let him do his thing)
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bonk-Cheems-Vi ... C92&sr=8-1Also I will slab you if you do not take that assistant to medbay, as it is part of our escalation policy.
You should put this on your desk.
Don't start ahelps with flippant threats if you want respect back.
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Ahelping ahead of time for rulebreakers, which is high latency, or posting an appeal right away so that your unfair ban isn't protracted longer than necessary. Two sides of the same coin. Ahelps are godawful moderation tools.
- conrad
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Double-posted on their own peanut. Oh noes.
I normally go by Ricky. Tell me how'd I do here. ⋆ 𝒯𝒶𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝒶 𝓈𝒶𝒷𝒶𝓉𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁. ⋆
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Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
- dendydoom
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
uh oh... this one funny joke post has activated my essaypost instinct... run... RUN...
i live and breathe manuel and unironically some regular players think this way and it's just as concerning to me as shitters who think stealing from injured people in medbay for 0 IC reason constitutes good conflict. the thief absolutely deserved to be told to not do stupid things like that without an IC reason, but imo players shouldn't feel empowered to drop the mindset of RP to dispense OOCly motivated deathmatch justice because they deem the other person a shitter and therefore they don't deserve to live. it sets a godawful standard for dealing with IC conflict and it's entitled behaviour at the root of it all. self-antagging is not "doing a mildly annoying thing that i don't like", there is no coded antag that asks you to be a nuisance and steal someone's toolbelt and throw it at them when they chase you, and it definitely doesn't mean "i get to treat you with utter OOC contempt and murder you because doing a thing i don't like is against the rules".
escalation policy also states:
it's utter nonsense to think that because someone took your toolbelt you have a valid reason to seriously suspect them of being an antag. labelling minor shithead behaviour as self-antagging on the same level as a traitor sets a seriously poor precedent if we really expect people to utilize escalation properly. "he took my toolbelt so now he may as well be a nukie to me" is a thinly veiled excuse to OOCly kill someone for OOCly upsetting you in response to an admittedly dumb IC situation. it's extremely lame to go and quote space law of all things in a thread like this, but i'm doing it anyway: pickpocketing/theft carries a 2 minute brig sentence. there is already a precedent set for the existence of this type of IC criminal behaviour. if every minor nuisance IC crime came with an OOC labelling of "self-antagging" then you could kill someone and throw their mangled body into the gutter to rot for just about anything.Global Escalation Policy wrote:If a conflict leads to violence and either participant is incapacitated, the standing participant is expected to make an effort to treat the other, unless they have reason to believe the other was an antagonist.
i was in this round. there was a fully manned sec team. nukies did not appear until over an hour later. there were multiple valid ways to decide how to deal with the situation that still kept it firmly within the realm of RP, but the appealer decided to take the one where they OOCly murder someone for a slight against them because they clearly wanted to OOCly punish them for their behaviour.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
NSFW:
- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
antags have a license to grief, non-antags do not have a license to grief. stealing someone’s shit not once but twice to purposefully fuck with them is very much “act like an antag, get treated like an antag” - you’ll notice that Baal didn’t ahelp until after the second thievery. you’re correct that stealing the toolbelt once doesn’t necessarily constitute antag behavior, it’s the fact that they came around a second time
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Striders13
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Honestly... I like what Linden is doing here. He's being a shitter but he's also accepting the consequences of his actions (he didn't even fight back when lynched!). I think it's a perfect example of a little gremlin that's nice to see once in a while, if only to get the satisfaction of lynching them. I played a round as security with them as assistant, and spent the entire round brigging them over and over again for various crimes. He carefully skirted the line of "too much grief" for it to be enjoyable experience.
As for the ban itself,
As for the ban itself,
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