paris konet commits toolbox seppuku to avert the future that is aku

[nianjiilical]

Bottom post of the previous page:

damn this is just like when they reworked my favorite champion in league of legends

yes im stealing this from kendrick because i am EVIL and BAD and an AD MIN

[Jonathan Gupta]

you use it by being in throw mode

[dirk_mcblade]

it seems fun but making the only way to block attacks clicking the resist button is weird and dumb, basically forces people to set a keybind for it if they wanna play

You don't have mousebindings set by now?

game doesnt recognize my mouse bindings

Think outside the box a little. You set a profile of your mouse to the keybindings. For instance you'd set a mousebutton to b. My mouse will even do macros like shift+b.

[Kendrickorium]

it seems fun but making the only way to block attacks clicking the resist button is weird and dumb, basically forces people to set a keybind for it if they wanna play

You don't have mousebindings set by now?

game doesnt recognize my mouse bindings

Think outside the box a little. You set a profile of your mouse to the keybindings. For instance you'd set a mousebutton to b. My mouse will even do macros like shift+b.

anyone who's watched me captain is well aware i'm not intelligent

[sinfulbliss]

Growing pains are expected. And our best testbed for these changes is live.

that sounds painful for a dubious reward

What is dubious about the potential for broader design possibilities if it is successful? If it fails, we're at the status quo, but if if succeeds, the game is changed completely for the better.

I do not trust the coderbase to drop swing combat if it "fails." Mainly because I don't think there will even be a "fail" clause in consideration. I think it will be merged long before it is properly balanced, and short of something catastrophic that breaks the game completely, it will stay in indefinitely. Just as Experisci went, and just as progtot went, they are still very unfinished and very dubious "improvements" to their predecessors, and that's being generous.

If the game is made more accessible to players (especially with regards to latency)

Translation (correct me if I'm wrong): Combat will become so easy with swing that it won't matter if you have 200ms or 30ms, you will still be able to hit your target reliably.
This isn't making the game more accessible, it's making it more simple by requiring less mechanical proficiency from the player.

If the dubious reward is forcing you out of your comfort zone to relearn the game once the issues are ironed out, then that is a wholly personal issue. Change can be uncomfortable, but you would be quite shortsighted to believe what we have had to design around leading up to this change has been anything else but second-rate. No matter how much somah thinks otherwise, there is no skill in pixel hunting.

I'm no stranger to relearning the game. I agree you need some discomfort initially to get through to the better side at the end. But that side isn't always better. What exactly would need to happen for coders to decide "okay, swing combat turned out to be worse, let's keep the status quo"? I think nothing -- I think once a headcoder and a few maints have their heart set on it, it is going to stay, period.

The playerbase will cope, learn, and adapt, and it'll become the new combat, sure. But after all that's done, you need to be honest about reflecting on if what you have now is better than what you had before, and I definitely do not think there is a world where that reflection occurs. I think at best it will have more "potential" than click combat, and therefore it will remain, just like Experisci had more potential than its predecessor and therefore remained. Yet after merge it was only ever worked on enough to scan toilets, tables, and discount experiments. Because it's merged and there's no longer any incentive to improve the system.

There is skill in pixel hunting, just like there will be skill in swing combat. The question is which one will produce the better fights and combat gameplay.

[conrad]

Translation (correct me if I'm wrong): Combat will become so easy with swing that it won't matter if you have 200ms or 30ms, you will still be able to hit your target reliably.
This isn't making the game more accessible, it's making it more simple by requiring less mechanical proficiency from the player.

I was gonna say something sarcy but you asked to be corrected if you're wrong so I'll bring a line of enquiry instead:

How are those two things different?

[dendydoom]

having just played a 2 hour deathmatch in the thunderdome with other admins (and player observers who asked to join) i think it's already a good change. yes, it needs more tweaks and fixes for situational items and weapons with unique functionality, but ultimately it feels like a straight upgrade. the combat is no longer a frustrating exercise in worsening all our inevitable carpal tunnel syndromes, where we joust back and forth trying to spam click on a tiny sprite, it's now much more about attack timing, clever positioning and zone control/denial with the area of your attacks. there is also the fact that with different strengths and weaknesses to attack patterns from weapons, their dps is no longer the primary concern when selecting a weapon, but rather things like the environment and the number of enemies. i witnessed firsthand someone able to fend off an esword attacker with a spear in maint, because the spear has better reach and the esword swing attack kept clunking into the walls (eswords and weapons like it still have a poke attack, but it's still outreached by weapons like the spear.)

personally i am very excited to see where it goes.

[sinfulbliss]

Translation (correct me if I'm wrong): Combat will become so easy with swing that it won't matter if you have 200ms or 30ms, you will still be able to hit your target reliably.
This isn't making the game more accessible, it's making it more simple by requiring less mechanical proficiency from the player.

I was gonna say something sarcy but you asked to be corrected if you're wrong so I'll bring a line of enquiry instead:

How are those two things different?

Because accessibility and difficulty are two very different things.

Clicking on sprites is just as accessible as swinging a weapon at a sprite. But hitting another player fighting you is harder with pixel combat, which means there's a bigger gap between the people who learned to do it well and an intern.

That gap is good IMO, because most people who enjoy SS13 combat enjoy the fact there's a ton of room to improve. It's hard so you can always improve and learn about it. Anyone who enjoys SS13 combat enjoys it for this reason.
The people who have no interest in combat, who don't care to learn it and play SS13 purely for RP, would of course be more in favor of an easier combat system that simplifies it and equalizes the field more.