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Cargo Resprite PR: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/77456GET YER BINGO CARDS, FOLKS! GET YER BINGO CARDS HERE
(I'm too lazy to scramble these from last time)
Bottom post of the previous page:
Cargo Resprite PR: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/77456Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Honestly, that bingo card is too easy. But you do have to admit that there is a big bias in some PRs. "Mayhem in a Bottle from bubblegum is a worthless loot and bleh bleh bleh," I recall you denied that immediately cause it is a good item. I am happy, you kept the bottle.
It's not on the players to break this cycle because "players" are far, far too varied in terms of knowledge level/investment/etc while the level of investment is similar across all maintainers. One is a small, homogenous group of people with similar levels of investment and the other is everyone else.Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 2:35 amYou're not wrong. I'm giving him a reason as to why oranges is like that, not trying to justify that it's a good thing. Ideally we would be more open to change on both sides, but the unfortunate truth is that people online kind of suck and running a development community is hard.conrad wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 2:03 am That's not a hallmark of good development and MSO himself said that he doesn't approve of pigeonholing everyone as people that hate change for its own sake. Which is exactly what happens when oranges drops lovely lines such as "player opinion doesn't matter" and "there's nothing you can do I am in charge"
It's a cycle. People hate maintainers because they don't listen to feedback because the feedback kind of sucks because people don't put effort into it because maintainers don't listen to feedback etc. etc.Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 2:25 am not an argument, you can't go ACTUALLY YOU'RE A BAD STINKY because then i can go PERHAPS...THE EGG CAME BEFORE THE CHICKEN and point out that maybe people are loud and angry with criticism because the development leads are fucking assholes to them regardless.
It's impossible to pinpoint when it started but nothing is going to change it at this point other than stopping giving shitty feedback and hoping those in power in turn start taking feedback again. Otherwise we have zero impact on what happens at this point.
what? do you mean like, directional lighting? or
you know, you have to look as well. The light fixtures lights up the original tiles that was ment to light up. now if you take out the wall or solid vision blockers, the light stays the same tiles as before. if you take out the bulb and place it back in, then all the tiles in view of replaced bulb are lit up as they should be with the removal of walls.
This is a major bug, why is it not on the issue tracker.iansdoor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 7:05 am you know, you have to look as well. The light fixtures lights up the original tiles that was ment to light up. now if you take out the wall or solid vision blockers, the light stays the same tiles as before. if you take out the bulb and place it back in, then all the tiles in view of replaced bulb are lit up as they should be with the removal of walls.
It's not something folks notice right away and why would they.
One kind of funny thing in these discussions is reasonably consistently people treat "the people who open PRs" and "the people who merge PRs" as the same people when this is not the case.iansdoor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:01 amHonestly, that bingo card is too easy. But you do have to admit that there is a big bias in some PRs. "Mayhem in a Bottle from bubblegum is a worthless loot and bleh bleh bleh," I recall you denied that immediately cause it is a good item. I am happy, you kept the bottle.
I am not downtrodding spriting. My wonderful leech and many other discarded creations have given a good grounding, to time consuming art. I take arms against speedmerging and generally, not testing whatever in the sandbox that we, you and I play. If you don't agree with my first statement that there is big bias in some PR's, I am not sure what else to say to sway. There was a pretty clear "reason" why that "friendly" spritemainter quit, I assume. Let's be blunt, a mob of people's mixed opinions of what you are doing is overwhelming. Most younger folks don't have thick skin to not tilt, but every comment usually, has some nugget of insight. It depends on the author to ask correct questions of village idiot's reasoning with the condition that it's not a joke. Myself and few others that have to, now watch github and communicate to other players. There is some neat shit that allows big brainstorms and then there is some why.. as well. Subjectively, everyone has a different why moments to merged changes or additions. Hive mind that you refer to, is still the extremes of the curve bell player base as typical player stays away from github, and these cursed forums.Jacquerel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:27 amOne kind of funny thing in these discussions is reasonably consistently people treat "the people who open PRs" and "the people who merge PRs" as the same people when this is not the case.iansdoor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:01 amHonestly, that bingo card is too easy. But you do have to admit that there is a big bias in some PRs. "Mayhem in a Bottle from bubblegum is a worthless loot and bleh bleh bleh," I recall you denied that immediately cause it is a good item. I am happy, you kept the bottle.
Anyone can open a PR with any change with no pre-approval. The existence of a (for instance) PR removing your favourite item doesn't mean anything about the general attitude of either coders or maintainers.
Then you get down to how most code maintainers don't touch sprite or map PRs which have their own expert groups... so even "people who decode what ends up in the game" is multiple (mostly) separate groups of people.
Just as "players" is a meaningless melange (there's actually a lot of positive comments on this particular PR) "contributors" is a group with no more of a hive mind.
These are NEARLY* all PRs merged after December 31st, 2022. I limited it strictly to resprites only.Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:47 amOr maybe they're antagonistic because a small but very loud fraction of the community loses their minds over every small change regardless of what it is so they've completely tuned out most sources of criticism as most of it is just noise anywaySuper Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:07 am constructive criticism doesn't matter because the development leads are openly antagonistic and will make a change just because they think it would be funny to upset people
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
This is what I was talking about.RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:08 am I won't ignore the giant elephant in the room that there are some up the code tower who are actively engaging in this behavior and/or not clamping down on it whenever it arises.
That's actually really enlightening, thanks. I've mostly seen coder/maintainer used interchangeably when it comes to player vs. developer so that's why I said it that way. I was aware that coders and spriters were different groups (with some crossover, of course) but could have worded it better on my end.Jacquerel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:45 amThis is what I was talking about.RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:08 am I won't ignore the giant elephant in the room that there are some up the code tower who are actively engaging in this behavior and/or not clamping down on it whenever it arises.
Here we are talking about a code tower and linking sprite PRs, but sprites have their own tower.
The sprite approval process largely is simply one of being approved by one or more of three people, as maintaining an art direction is their delegated responsibility.
I dont know whether that's the best system but I do know that their job is generally way more subjective than judging code (everyone has a different idea about how things should look) and I'm not going to begrudge them having a vision. Sometimes their art opinion is pretty divergent from the general community, it seems!
Other maintainers can block sprite PRs from being merged just on the basis of not liking them but generally don't, on the basis that we have a guy for that.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Sure!
"One kind of funny thing in these discussions is reasonably consistently people treat "the people who open PRs" and "the people who merge PRs" as the same people when this is not the case.. -Jacquerel
Our first opening statements.I take arms against speedmerging and generally, not testing whatever in the sandbox that we, you and I play. -iansdoor
Anyone can open a PR with any change with no pre-approval. The existence of a (for instance) PR removing your favourite item doesn't mean anything about the general attitude of either coders or maintainers.
Then you get down to how most code maintainers don't touch sprite or map PRs which have their own expert groups... so even "people who decode what ends up in the game" is multiple (mostly) separate groups of people. -Jacquerel
Lets go with that basic example of sprite. The Mosin, at the moment, is the soul to gun cargo after WT-500, was phased out by game balance issues. Who knows what WT was replaced with, as it wasn't anything to note. General attitude from codebase, that they greenlight it cause of how good the new model looks. But, we both know that cheap, unreliable gun should look the part. Paxilmaniac did kickass job, but that base mosin look too good for the part. I would argue that it should morph into that model via cleaning kit, to make reliable.There was a pretty clear "reason" why that "friendly" spritemainter quit, I assume. -iansdoor
Just as "players" is a meaningless melange (there's actually a lot of positive comments on this particular PR) "contributors" is a group with no more of a hive mind. -Jacquerel
This is mostly where my reply comes from. You called folks, a mixed salad. I agree with that! Now, I don't want to know if you are the type of person to picks off radish, spring onions, arugula, carrots, and maybe tomatoes..., in order to enjoy a lettuce bowl? Each component has a certain value to the balance. When I say "depends on the author to ask correct questions of village idiot's reasoning with the condition that it's not a joke," clearly you haven't ran into that issue why a good portion of folks doesn't like your bowl of lettuce. That would be my assumption and I am making an ass out of myself as I don't know your history as you don't know mine. If you were very keen on unseeing the coder bias, look at any of pAI changes, read the comments first and play a pAI a few times on lrp. We might scratch that idea, that takes time.Let's be blunt, a mob of people's mixed opinions of what you are doing is overwhelming. Most younger folks don't have thick skin to not tilt, but every comment usually, has some nugget of insight. It depends on the author to ask correct questions of village idiot's reasoning with the condition that it's not a joke. It depends on the author to ask correct questions of village idiot's reasoning with the condition that it's not a joke. -iansdoor
Statement from myself to you, I don't know if you know, that mothblocks has told TG players repeatedly to watch github and to this day, generally players don't. So if you were wondering why there is a blob of idiots, its cause it's all word of mouth. Anyone that looks or replies to forums, github and whatever are the crazies on the bell curve. Folks stay away from forum for a reason, but the forums have all the rules, which why there is so many rule breaks with old players and new players.. This just feeds back into my question.Myself and few others that have to, now watch github and communicate to other players. There is some neat shit that allows big brainstorms and then there is some why.. as well. Subjectively, everyone has a different why moments to merged changes or additions. Hive mind that you refer to, is still the extremes of the curve bell player base as typical player stays away from github, and these cursed forums. -iansdoor
I recall a week ago, MSO saying that "there was 3k unique players monthly on TG" to reply of "woes of TG dying, since he took it off server list.".I would interested to hear my 3 year old question asked, if Timbers or Lukas ran a poll to on current players "if they taken interest to ss13 forums or ss13 github, as those are important parts to the community." Whether that answer is just log on once a week, never, daily, maybe only an hour in totality, only for ban appeals and so on. There is plenty of information that isn't known about the "hive mind." -iansdoor
Oh, you want that leech?! I got a few other bad boys. My leech is so cute. A couple of bears and jungle life stuff.
I'm having trouble wording this, but basically everything in your post makes sense until you spent like an hour photoshopping a stupid Spongebob edit because... reasons? I don't know, it doesn't help your point, it just makes you look like an asshole.
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
I was pointing out a bunch of other resprite PRs that were well received.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
You can do that without being an asshole about it.RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:43 pmI was pointing out a bunch of other resprite PRs that were well received.
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Can you?Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:44 pmYou can do that without being an asshole about it.RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:43 pmI was pointing out a bunch of other resprite PRs that were well received.
I'm not unreasonable; I can have my mind changed and I can admit when I was wrong, but doing shit like drafting a meme edit in response to what I said just makes me want to ignore what you have to say.
Yes.
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
I'm a lot better at it than you are.Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:50 pmReally?
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
dont work yourself into a shoot, brother
This is entirely untrue; just the filter of being invested enough in a game to submit code for it makes it a significantly more-aligned and more homogenous group in terms of knowledge/attitude/investment.
they automatically delist at certain population counts
They still look quite bad, yeah.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
It's why I think sometimes the spritetainers just need to say "no" to some PRs. I know it doesn't work this way, but it honestly feels like every single resprite gets greenlit. Like, I'm sorry, but the PR that made all the lights black and made the floor lights square (and not even looking like they're in the floor like the old floor lights) look horrible and should have been shot down. I think the wall light fixture resprite was good, but I am still baffled why the light bulbs and tubes are black now. It is super fucking annoying to try and find the light fixtures in the dark now because the bulbs ARE BLACK. Meanwhile, you could faintly see the yellow of broken bulbs in light fixtures in the dark.
It's mostly just the same sprites being changed over and over again. I swear we're on our fourth or fifth drink resprite this year. I'm all for cargo getting a sprite update but this ain't it. I feel like the further a resprite goes away from the original sprite, the better the reasoning needs to be for changing it.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:16 pm The amount of change this game goes through is fucking insane, sprites change every few months and few things stay untouched. I think this spessmen 2.0 will go through every department and when its done the game will look different. Personally I kinda think the sprites look a bit out of place but so do a ton of sprites.
axietheaxolotl wrote:Why It's Good For The Game
shruggers idk, i think it looks good. cargo is now much more visually distinct, and has a better vision to it. quatermaster receiving a new look that makes him stand out is a good thing too, imo.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
Sorry, I meant floor lights and not floodlights. Autocorrect messed it up.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Thats crazy cause I also meant floor lights and not floodlightsRedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:38 pmSorry, I meant floor lights and not floodlights. Autocorrect messed it up.
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
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