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viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34876this is a great reply. I enjoyed this replyTheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:47 amit was pointed out in this thread that skye was a 1-month old player when some of those incidents that led to their ban were logged, as an example. i agree that most people should have given the discord a general sniff-test and gotten the hell out of there immediately, but i don't want to damn people on the basis of just wanting to have friends. we're all still human and get the good brain chemicals from sharing spaces of people that think in similar ways to us.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:28 amI hate to be that guy, but with sinful out of the players club, i suppose someone has toTheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:59 am we're hoping the less egregious cases appeal so that we can handle them based on ways they've distinguished themselves from the others who have been banned.
how exactly would one appeal from those banned have more or less merit than another?
they were ALL in the discord together, does it really matter what was posted and by who, when they ALL CHOSE to stay in that discord and view the information?
FEDS
Is it?
some logs were brought to our attention which we filtered through for what was relevant in our decisions. it was something already on our radar and this just gave us some unfortunate confirmations of suspicions that had been held/investigated previously.
..but sorry, could you clarify on this? I thought we stopped making bans that are planned to be appealed. Theyre generally a bad idea, for reasons pretty clear.TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:59 am these bans were handed out with the idea that appeals would eventually come, and threads like these actually provide good insight on what individual players involved provided to the community at large. some of the people who ate permanent bans likely won't be appealing their rule 2 bans for the amount of evidence against them, but we're hoping the less egregious cases appeal so that we can handle them based on ways they've distinguished themselves from the others who have been banned.
you can view any permanent bans placed via the public facing part of the db.Constellado wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 am I wonder what the headcount of this is including all the temp bans. Will Manuel's player count drop noticeably from this? I wonder.
Why would they? I dont think your average manuellite cares much, no matter how big their static was. And we would have to ban a considerable room of people to have a noticeable drop in playercountConstellado wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 am Will Manuel's player count drop noticeably from this? I wonder.
planned to be appealed in the sense that these people weren't blacklisted and still deserve to have a say in defending themselves and knowing what was used to inform their punishment.kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:17 am..but sorry, could you clarify on this? I thought we stopped making bans that are planned to be appealed. Theyre generally a bad idea, for reasons pretty clear.TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:59 am these bans were handed out with the idea that appeals would eventually come, and threads like these actually provide good insight on what individual players involved provided to the community at large. some of the people who ate permanent bans likely won't be appealing their rule 2 bans for the amount of evidence against them, but we're hoping the less egregious cases appeal so that we can handle them based on ways they've distinguished themselves from the others who have been banned.
There was 7 perma bans and who knows how many temp bans.kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:19 amWhy would they? I dont think your average manuellite cares much, no matter how big their static was. And we would have to ban a considerable room of people to have a noticeable drop in playercountConstellado wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 am Will Manuel's player count drop noticeably from this? I wonder.
bruh my fuckin' DIPiwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:56 am i am in every metagang discord that has ever existed and i am eating all of the snacks and dip when they're not looking
If you permaban someone for these kinds of things on their first admin intervention regarding the issue, you're insane.
The rules exist solely as a guideline to ensure that the game stays fair and fun for the people playing it. We are not a court of law - and there's no excuse for why you can't apply "no harm, no foul" when applicable - especially in cases like this where the round information was virtually useless and was not acted on, and very clearly not intended to be acted on.
The main issue is that there's no nuance to your assessment of this particular ban. If I took a picture of a floor tile in-round and posted it to tg-general, would I be as equally culpable of what you call 'metacomming'? The obvious answer here is no, because to actually metacomm you have to convey some kind of information in the first place.
Why are you taking into account the actions of other people when determining the ban length of one specific player? Could it be that sky13th had no change of conscience moment because these screenshots are over 9 months old and did not fucking matter in the grand scheme of things?
I can promise you, in the case of this specific ban, the only people that seem to genuinely care or even remember these screenshots are you.
Makes you wonder how many other of these bans were truly justified
this is the most insane post i've read in monthsdirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:32 am The player opposition to the ban seems kind of suspect actually. Perhaps there's more of these metacomm servers out there?
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
A manuel felinid metagang got permabanned for metacomming and you're laughing? You're laughing!iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:35 amthis is the most insane post i've read in monthsdirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:32 am The player opposition to the ban seems kind of suspect actually. Perhaps there's more of these metacomm servers out there?
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
omg.. caught red handeddirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:12 am Also pretty telling that pepper as a felinid main is defending this. Doth protest too much.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
But I am quite certain they expected it yes. I don't think we are particularly bothered by people talking about things that happen.RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:07 am The admins kind of come across as a bit naive if they didn't expect people to talk about seven people (one of them being a headmin candidate from THIS ELECTION, and two decently well-known players) getting perma'd and a discord server getting a through skim through by admins to find instances of metacomms.
The problem is it doesn't look like it. This is a HUGE action, and having it come immediately after you get into power puts a lot more scrutiny on things. And when the first thing seen on the player-side is "Here's some screenshots from when you were brand new to the game. One of them is just them hoping that you're not trying to rile up all the antags into going kill heavy (after all, remember! Objectives ARE Optional), and the other is them excitedly showing off something cute that makes them happy. Something minutes before the end of the round, out in the depths of space. As Pepper said, they showed about as much information as taking a screenshot of a pure grey floortile.
If someone metacommed in tg-gen while people are talking, should all of those people be banned?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:16 am These people took part in the discord where stuff about rounds was thrown around rlly. I think that's the baseline issue people are missing. Sure their metacoms were minor but they were active around conversation with more stuff whilst playing in the round. Not commenting directly on it whilst still reading it is shitty.
You should not share information from ongoing rounds that's all.
Posting a screenshot in tg gen can get you punished so why should this be any different because it's on a private server.
TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:47 am i agree that most people should have given the discord a general sniff-test and gotten the hell out of there immediately, but i don't want to damn people on the basis of just wanting to have friends. we're all still human and get the good brain chemicals from sharing spaces of people that think in similar ways to us.
fuck you're so true
It's never consistent on tg gen it's a one and done because they get in a lot of troubleCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:35 amIf someone metacommed in tg-gen while people are talking, should all of those people be banned?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:16 am These people took part in the discord where stuff about rounds was thrown around rlly. I think that's the baseline issue people are missing. Sure their metacoms were minor but they were active around conversation with more stuff whilst playing in the round. Not commenting directly on it whilst still reading it is shitty.
You should not share information from ongoing rounds that's all.
Posting a screenshot in tg gen can get you punished so why should this be any different because it's on a private server.
To quote Xemo,
TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:47 am i agree that most people should have given the discord a general sniff-test and gotten the hell out of there immediately, but i don't want to damn people on the basis of just wanting to have friends. we're all still human and get the good brain chemicals from sharing spaces of people that think in similar ways to us.
Sidenote,fuck you're so true
No, no. Let's say you and I are chatting in TG-Gen while also in game, we're talking about Starsector or something, and Vekter comes in and posts a screenshot from the current round while we're talking. Should we be banned, too?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:44 amIt's never consistent on tg gen it's a one and done because they get in a lot of troubleCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:35 amIf someone metacommed in tg-gen while people are talking, should all of those people be banned?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:16 am These people took part in the discord where stuff about rounds was thrown around rlly. I think that's the baseline issue people are missing. Sure their metacoms were minor but they were active around conversation with more stuff whilst playing in the round. Not commenting directly on it whilst still reading it is shitty.
You should not share information from ongoing rounds that's all.
Posting a screenshot in tg gen can get you punished so why should this be any different because it's on a private server.
Or at least, so I'm reading it.kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:16 am These people took part in the discord where stuff about rounds was thrown around rlly. I think that's the baseline issue people are missing. Sure their metacoms were minor but they were active around conversation with more stuff whilst playing in the round. Not commenting directly on it whilst still reading it is shitty.
In a way, a 6 month ban may as well be a permaban for how long we generally recommend people take time either on other servers or from playing the game to appeal those bans, depending on circumstances. Some people in this sting have track records that make the prospect of re-offense unfortunately high. It's probably for the best they take a break.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:22 am i feel like maybe a better way to handle it though would have been to sit everyone down, get everyone to publicly apologize, and then give them all 6 month bans or something as a show of some kind of punishment.
there is no win from this I suppose.
If we were playing tgstation 13 and someone was posting information in the channel. We were talking around it so we had obviously seen it. We are now playing the game with meta knowledge. This happening consistently and us not doing anything is kinda a lol....CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:48 amNo, no. Let's say you and I are chatting in TG-Gen while also in game, we're talking about Starsector or something, and Vekter comes in and posts a screenshot from the current round while we're talking. Should we be banned, too?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:44 amIt's never consistent on tg gen it's a one and done because they get in a lot of troubleCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:35 amIf someone metacommed in tg-gen while people are talking, should all of those people be banned?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:16 am These people took part in the discord where stuff about rounds was thrown around rlly. I think that's the baseline issue people are missing. Sure their metacoms were minor but they were active around conversation with more stuff whilst playing in the round. Not commenting directly on it whilst still reading it is shitty.
You should not share information from ongoing rounds that's all.
Posting a screenshot in tg gen can get you punished so why should this be any different because it's on a private server.
Because that's basically what this part is sayingOr at least, so I'm reading it.kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:16 am These people took part in the discord where stuff about rounds was thrown around rlly. I think that's the baseline issue people are missing. Sure their metacoms were minor but they were active around conversation with more stuff whilst playing in the round. Not commenting directly on it whilst still reading it is shitty.
Not rlly ? There were 17 people or smth not 17 bansCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:03 amI'm just gonna point at what Xemo said, that I mentioned in the first one you replied to, because I really can't agree with punishing people just for being there. But also...
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