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viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34876Not rlly ? There were 17 people or smth not 17 bansCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:03 amI'm just gonna point at what Xemo said, that I mentioned in the first one you replied to, because I really can't agree with punishing people just for being there. But also...
7 permabans, one of which as this appeal is showing, other than TWO INCIDENTS WHEN THEY WERE REALLY NEW LITERALLY TEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO, never partook in the Criminal Actions, and references made to a handful more that weren't perma'd.kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:06 amNot rlly ? There were 17 people or smth not 17 bansCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:03 amI'm just gonna point at what Xemo said, that I mentioned in the first one you replied to, because I really can't agree with punishing people just for being there. But also...
Sharing info about an ongoing round is still sharing info about an ongoing round nothing else to say rlly, exceptions aren't usually made.CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:08 am7 permabans, one of which as this appeal is showing, other than TWO INCIDENTS WHEN THEY WERE REALLY NEW LITERALLY TEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO, never partook in the Criminal Actions, and references made to a handful more that weren't perma'd.kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:06 amNot rlly ? There were 17 people or smth not 17 bansCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:03 amI'm just gonna point at what Xemo said, that I mentioned in the first one you replied to, because I really can't agree with punishing people just for being there. But also...
This conversation and this peanut has shown one of those 7 was someone whose only fucking crime was being in the server and wanting to have friends. How many more of them are the same?
Fuck this headmin term, and fuck your term.
There are degrees of culpability and deniability at play. Consider that this situation involved a private server, with only so many people in the server itself. Those who are present in the server are presumably a lot more closer to one another, and more culpable as a result if scrutiny is leveled at them. How directly involved they are in discussions and how conscientious of the behavior of their peers is easier to track, but also difficult to disprove due to proximity and the exclusivity of the environment. If they're in the discord, and they're not paying attention or reading the logs, but also not engaging with discussion, then the only thing that might be leveled at them is suspicion and a lack of trust. Guilt by association is more reasonable the smaller the group might be if patterned behavior an be more easily established and the more involved you are in ongoing discussions while this rule breaking behavior is occurring and not being challenged.CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:48 am No, no. Let's say you and I are chatting in TG-Gen while also in game, we're talking about Starsector or something, and Vekter comes in and posts a screenshot from the current round while we're talking. Should we be banned, too?
Because that's basically what this part is saying
There are no friends on the internet, let that be a cheap lesson to you by learning from other people's mistakes.CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:08 am7 permabans, one of which as this appeal is showing, other than TWO INCIDENTS WHEN THEY WERE REALLY NEW LITERALLY TEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO, never partook in the Criminal Actions, and references made to a handful more that weren't perma'd.kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:06 amNot rlly ? There were 17 people or smth not 17 bansCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:03 amI'm just gonna point at what Xemo said, that I mentioned in the first one you replied to, because I really can't agree with punishing people just for being there. But also...
This conversation and this peanut has shown one of those 7 was someone whose only fucking crime was being in the server and wanting to have friends. How many more of them are the same?
Fuck this headmin term, and fuck your term.
What fucking info is gained from someone being really excited because they found a cute cat? If you investigated for this long, why would you need to re-evaluate it so quickly? Why not take a little bit of extra time to think it through properly?kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:11 amSharing info about an ongoing round is still sharing info about an ongoing round nothing else to say rlly, exceptions aren't usually made.CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:08 am7 permabans, one of which as this appeal is showing, other than TWO INCIDENTS WHEN THEY WERE REALLY NEW LITERALLY TEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO, never partook in the Criminal Actions, and references made to a handful more that weren't perma'd.kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:06 amNot rlly ? There were 17 people or smth not 17 bansCMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:03 amI'm just gonna point at what Xemo said, that I mentioned in the first one you replied to, because I really can't agree with punishing people just for being there. But also...
This conversation and this peanut has shown one of those 7 was someone whose only fucking crime was being in the server and wanting to have friends. How many more of them are the same?
Fuck this headmin term, and fuck your term.
We will probably re evaluate some of them on appeal but largely it is what it is.
Not everything can have admin leniency with sharing in round info being one of these things.
Suspicion by association is fine, guilt by association is not. To use more real world hypotheticals. I'm dragged out to a gathering by a small group of friends. Of our group, everyone else has decided to do cocaine. I have refused, but I still want to spend time with these people because having friends makes my brain produce the funny chemicals without having to resort to recreational substances.
guilt by association is wrong and I will not infantalize you further by going further in depth as to why
In that example you should be sentenced and your friends go free. Who turns down free cocaine? Probably a reptilian in a skinsuit.CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:24 am Suspicion by association is fine, guilt by association is not. To use more real world hypotheticals. I'm dragged out to a gathering by a small group of friends. Of our group, everyone else has decided to do cocaine. I have refused, but I still want to spend time with these people because having friends makes my brain produce the funny chemicals without having to resort to recreational substances.
The police kick the door down. They've done a thorough investigation, they've combed through every belonging at the party.
I didn't do any cocaine, I was just at the party.
Should I be sentenced? Investigated is fine. But should I be charged, sentenced and punished?
Not having friends from the internet may be fucked up, but you certainly wouldn't be at risk of getting banned for joining a metacomming discord. I'm just here to play games n shit I'm not looking to get wrapped up in what other people are cooking.NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:28 am Thinking having friends on the internet is a character flaw is like, actually maybe the most fucked up take in this thread if I had to be honest because there are plenty of people here who can functionally maintain friendships without either breaking server rules OR committing felonies.
Like, yes, have a good/better judge of character, but don't shut yourself off from being friendly with people because someone got burned as a result of having poor judgement. Exercising this good judgement is how you avoid getting into these scenarios and keeping your friends from doing the same hopefully :U
I mean, if it's whatever is best for you, I suppose. I just think it isn't a good universal solution...dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:36 am Not having friends from the internet may be fucked up, but you certainly wouldn't be at risk of getting banned for joining a metacomming discord. I'm just here to play games n shit I'm not looking to get wrapped up in what other people are cooking.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
That's really all there is to it. It's like, one of the most sacred rules for SS13 to even function as the game it is intended to be.Metacomms, the use of methods of communication outside of SS13 IC channels, is a very serious rule violation and may be met with permanent bans for all related accounts.
iamgoofball wrote:Vekter and MrMelbert are more likely to enforce the roleplay rules Manuel is supposed to be abiding by than Wesoda or Jackraxxus are.
who was the snitch? a player? did he enter a plea deal to foward all logs to the admins in exchange for not getting punished? how long was this person part of the server?TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 amsome logs were brought to our attention which we filtered through for what was relevant in our decisions. it was something already on our radar and this just gave us some unfortunate confirmations of suspicions that had been held/investigated previously.
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
timonk.... the snitch was YOU.Timonk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:26 amwho was the snitch? a player? did he enter a plea deal to foward all logs to the admins in exchange for not getting punished? how long was this person part of the server?TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 amsome logs were brought to our attention which we filtered through for what was relevant in our decisions. it was something already on our radar and this just gave us some unfortunate confirmations of suspicions that had been held/investigated previously.
there aint no way bros.... its so joever for my career as a cleaner....kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:27 amtimonk.... the snitch was YOU.Timonk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:26 amwho was the snitch? a player? did he enter a plea deal to foward all logs to the admins in exchange for not getting punished? how long was this person part of the server?TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 amsome logs were brought to our attention which we filtered through for what was relevant in our decisions. it was something already on our radar and this just gave us some unfortunate confirmations of suspicions that had been held/investigated previously.
they just gave you benzos as part of the deal to wipe your memory....
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
It's going to fail transparency for a lot of reasons I've covered in bus.
Yeah, no shit. Why do you think people are clutching their pearls itt?Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:16 am And as a certain xpokee dipshit admitted on the Manuelcord after being banned, tons of people have been in their DMs sharing in round info. What we've dealt with is all the stuff we can see. There's a "tip of the iceberg" element to this which still trends towards "I wonder what people were sharing that we couldn't see".
Don't wanna ruin your fanfiction but, Pepper isn't in either the Manuelcord, or the formerly nuked discord.dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:36 am The snitch should've received antag tokens to be honest and whistleblowers receiving tokens should be policy tbqhwy.
Yeah, no shit. Why do you think people are clutching their pearls itt?Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:16 am And as a certain xpokee dipshit admitted on the Manuelcord after being banned, tons of people have been in their DMs sharing in round info. What we've dealt with is all the stuff we can see. There's a "tip of the iceberg" element to this which still trends towards "I wonder what people were sharing that we couldn't see".
They're thinking oh shit maybe I'm next. All I did was share cat pictures!
Great. Prove they're not in some other discord metacomming.carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:37 amDon't wanna ruin your fanfiction but, Pepper isn't in either the Manuelcord, or the formerly nuked discord.dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:36 am The snitch should've received antag tokens to be honest and whistleblowers receiving tokens should be policy tbqhwy.
Yeah, no shit. Why do you think people are clutching their pearls itt?Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:16 am And as a certain xpokee dipshit admitted on the Manuelcord after being banned, tons of people have been in their DMs sharing in round info. What we've dealt with is all the stuff we can see. There's a "tip of the iceberg" element to this which still trends towards "I wonder what people were sharing that we couldn't see".
They're thinking oh shit maybe I'm next. All I did was share cat pictures!
Prove you aren't...dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:38 amGreat. Prove they're not in some other discord metacomming.carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:37 amDon't wanna ruin your fanfiction but, Pepper isn't in either the Manuelcord, or the formerly nuked discord.dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:36 am The snitch should've received antag tokens to be honest and whistleblowers receiving tokens should be policy tbqhwy.
Yeah, no shit. Why do you think people are clutching their pearls itt?Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:16 am And as a certain xpokee dipshit admitted on the Manuelcord after being banned, tons of people have been in their DMs sharing in round info. What we've dealt with is all the stuff we can see. There's a "tip of the iceberg" element to this which still trends towards "I wonder what people were sharing that we couldn't see".
They're thinking oh shit maybe I'm next. All I did was share cat pictures!
You know, as someone who's part of the reason why we can't have nice things I don't see where you get off trying to clap back like that when I was pointing out your statement was essentially meaningless and my point was I think a lot of people are acting suspiciously on your behalf.carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:41 amProve you aren't...dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:38 amGreat. Prove they're not in some other discord metacomming.carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:37 amDon't wanna ruin your fanfiction but, Pepper isn't in either the Manuelcord, or the formerly nuked discord.dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:36 am The snitch should've received antag tokens to be honest and whistleblowers receiving tokens should be policy tbqhwy.
Yeah, no shit. Why do you think people are clutching their pearls itt?Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:16 am And as a certain xpokee dipshit admitted on the Manuelcord after being banned, tons of people have been in their DMs sharing in round info. What we've dealt with is all the stuff we can see. There's a "tip of the iceberg" element to this which still trends towards "I wonder what people were sharing that we couldn't see".
They're thinking oh shit maybe I'm next. All I did was share cat pictures!
Maybe friends are the people we snitch along the way.Timonk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:30 amthere aint no way bros.... its so joever for my career as a cleaner....kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:27 amtimonk.... the snitch was YOU.Timonk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:26 amwho was the snitch? a player? did he enter a plea deal to foward all logs to the admins in exchange for not getting punished? how long was this person part of the server?TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:16 amsome logs were brought to our attention which we filtered through for what was relevant in our decisions. it was something already on our radar and this just gave us some unfortunate confirmations of suspicions that had been held/investigated previously.
they just gave you benzos as part of the deal to wipe your memory....
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
It's called having some fucking empathy.dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:36 am The snitch should've received antag tokens to be honest and whistleblowers receiving tokens should be policy tbqhwy.
Yeah, no shit. Why do you think people are clutching their pearls itt?Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:16 am And as a certain xpokee dipshit admitted on the Manuelcord after being banned, tons of people have been in their DMs sharing in round info. What we've dealt with is all the stuff we can see. There's a "tip of the iceberg" element to this which still trends towards "I wonder what people were sharing that we couldn't see".
They're thinking oh shit maybe I'm next. All I did was share cat pictures!
Timber is like Czernobog to tbm's Belobog cos tbm explained the exact same thing without making me like him slightly less.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:33 amIt's going to fail transparency for a lot of reasons I've covered in bus.
The headmin team has no right to have been given access to these leaked logs, but we got them anyway.
Your dumb ass has even less right than the headmins do to see them. And seeing as we have no rights, that leaves you in a pretty pickle.
We're not going to share stuff just because the admin team occasionally forget they're not that important on the totem pole; players plus their privacy ranks higher than admins plus their curiosity.
We have shared the metacomms evidence with banned players that have requested it, since its messages they said while they were there at the time. They will hold the headmin team to account via appeals if they disagree they metacommed or want to put some different perspective forward. The admin team will have to take a transparency backseat on this one.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
I feel like thats far too easy of an strawman to attack. The only person I see making this response is Dirk.AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:07 pm It feels like an argument between people who follow rules, but are open to interpretation and context versus people who are slaves to them, we all agree that metacomming is bad, but many of us feel like the ban concerning this player and considering the known context is too harsh. And you know what the response is from the latter group? "Well you're clearly metagaming! Now let me compare the banned player in question to a world-famous serial killer!"
You had a couple others as well but their posts were also thankfully deleted.kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:11 pmI feel like thats far too easy of an strawman to attack. The only person I see making this response is Dirk.AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:07 pm It feels like an argument between people who follow rules, but are open to interpretation and context versus people who are slaves to them, we all agree that metacomming is bad, but many of us feel like the ban concerning this player and considering the known context is too harsh. And you know what the response is from the latter group? "Well you're clearly metagaming! Now let me compare the banned player in question to a world-famous serial killer!"
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
BRO HAVE YOU SEEN FLESH AND BLOOD?
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
Have you seen Keyforge? Its buy one deck for 6 bucks (maybe some tokens but you can use paper imma be real) and then you play, each deck contains random Cards in 3 factions and you cant mix cards from different decks, a lotta funconrad wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:36 pmBRO HAVE YOU SEEN FLESH AND BLOOD?
It's my favourite thing right now. It's a TCG with a much lower monetary barrier of entry than Magic the Gathering and has a much more active, back and forth fueled combat gameplay.
I played it once all day and although it felt wonky cos I had never played it I managed to win a game against a friend of mine who is a TCG streamer and YouTuber. Felt good.
F&B is my favourite thing rn fr
Speaking of deck builders, there's this game called Friends vs Friends that combines first person shooting and deck-building. You use different types of cards in 1v1 or 2v2 matches that give you buffs, debuffs the opponent(s) or even random attributes that can turn the tide of the round, like completely changing the map. It has its balance issues and the playerbase is not that big, but it is incredibly fun, especially with friends.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:55 pmHave you seen Keyforge? Its buy one deck for 6 bucks (maybe some tokens but you can use paper imma be real) and then you play, each deck contains random Cards in 3 factions and you cant mix cards from different decks, a lotta funconrad wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:36 pmBRO HAVE YOU SEEN FLESH AND BLOOD?
It's my favourite thing right now. It's a TCG with a much lower monetary barrier of entry than Magic the Gathering and has a much more active, back and forth fueled combat gameplay.
I played it once all day and although it felt wonky cos I had never played it I managed to win a game against a friend of mine who is a TCG streamer and YouTuber. Felt good.
F&B is my favourite thing rn fr
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