up and coming cuban pete gets put down a peg

[EmpressMaia]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35437

from my experience with talking to admins, access doesn't equal authority, and you are generally only allowed to be in those high risk areas under the proper staffs good graces, i think i remember talking to bmon about this

[dendydoom]

good ending. i'm very pleased with this one.

i really don't feel like anyone involved did anything bad enough that warrants an admin anvil dropped on their head. i would've done similarly to what isra did because i do still feel that the conflict was a little flimsy, but even while knowing that i have come to believe that there is enough grey area in the situation wrt the amount of prep work the assistant did and how ambiguous the argument can be perceived (i initially thought it was pretty clear but discussions in this thread have been enlightening) that doubling down on a note would not be helpful or informative to future admins in their rulings because it would lack the nuance necessary to really unpack the extent of this situation. with that in mind it really does feel only fair to the player to accept the best faith interpretation available.

that was a horrid paragraph but that's all you're getting from me. let's bury this.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Honestly, it's appeals like this that let me point to things for why this administration is so great compared to other server groups. I put forward my argument and it actually got listened to, considered, and accepted.

Anyone who thinks the admins here suck has no idea how other server administrations are. If I made this same appeal on fulp, it would've been denied, locked, and probably ban extended, all while the admin made fun of me on the discord or something.

[conrad]

LET'S GOOOO, I am three for three on having in-game notes/bans overturned on me. Four for four if you count the naming policy note.

See also:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=31709
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=33047
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32607

nvm put it back on

I'm pleased they edited it out but that was a rotten attitude from imitates goddamn.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

LET'S GOOOO, I am three for three on having in-game notes/bans overturned on me. Four for four if you count the naming policy note.

See also:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=31709
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=33047
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32607

nvm put it back on

I'm pleased they edited it out but that was a rotten attitude from imitates goddamn.

Yeah my bad. I've just been obsessed over this appeal for like five days straight now. Shouldn't have gone so far with it.

[celularLAmp]

I still think this is weird

if a assistant went in and messing with engineerings setup you guys would act way differently about it
or if a assistant went in medbay and took equipment

the issue i see with this is that the assistant only had self in mind and not wanting to help the department despite getting permission from captain. it's just selfish behaviour and critting someone overb eing mad that they're stuff is being messed with is annoying.

[TheLoLSwat]

Edit: Okay this was a bit much. Still, I'm happy.

TALK YOUR SHIT IMITATES YOU BEAT THE CASE!!!!

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I still think this is weird

if a assistant went in and messing with engineerings setup you guys would act way differently about it
or if a assistant went in medbay and took equipment

the issue i see with this is that the assistant only had self in mind and not wanting to help the department despite getting permission from captain. it's just selfish behaviour and critting someone overb eing mad that they're stuff is being messed with is annoying.

This is exactly my take on it. You can see in the logs that Cecilia was happy to talk to and include Imitates up until the moment where it's made clear he's going to interfere with Sci's stuff for his own personal project. And even then, the """threat""" was only ever actually made after what most people would assume is a "I'm not going to leave, so what're you gonna do, kill me?"

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

I'm surprised that this far into an argument you're clearly invested in you're still directly misrepresenting the situation. The captain specifically demanded to be given a gravity core mod (experimental anomaly core tech), as a condition of letting Imitates have the access to refine his own core. stating "the permission was to do ordnance not to waste research points" is wrong, and you know it's wrong.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

I'm surprised that this far into an argument you're clearly invested in you're still directly misrepresenting the situation. The captain specifically demanded to be given a gravity core mod (experimental anomaly core tech), as a condition of letting Imitates have the access to refine his own core. stating "the permission was to do ordnance not to waste research points" is wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Hilarious to see you accuse me of misrepresenting the situation while actively doing that yourself.

It was something they'd still have gotten in the end. All they'd have to do is just Wait. I doubt the Captain's going to throw a fit that Imitates took slightly longer so that T4 parts could be done, and thus a Scientist isn't having to wait even longer to go do the parts run.

[TheLoLSwat]

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

I'm surprised that this far into an argument you're clearly invested in you're still directly misrepresenting the situation. The captain specifically demanded to be given a gravity core mod (experimental anomaly core tech), as a condition of letting Imitates have the access to refine his own core. stating "the permission was to do ordnance not to waste research points" is wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Hilarious to see you accuse me of misrepresenting the situation while actively doing that yourself.

It was something they'd still have gotten in the end. All they'd have to do is just Wait. I doubt the Captain's going to throw a fit that Imitates took slightly longer so that T4 parts could be done, and thus a Scientist isn't having to wait even longer to go do the parts run.

It should be a fair assumption that the captains orders override whatever anyone else in science wanted to do, especially on mrp where the chain of command is a bigger deal.

[conrad]

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

I'm surprised that this far into an argument you're clearly invested in you're still directly misrepresenting the situation. The captain specifically demanded to be given a gravity core mod (experimental anomaly core tech), as a condition of letting Imitates have the access to refine his own core. stating "the permission was to do ordnance not to waste research points" is wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Hilarious to see you accuse me of misrepresenting the situation while actively doing that yourself.

It was something they'd still have gotten in the end. All they'd have to do is just Wait. I doubt the Captain's going to throw a fit that Imitates took slightly longer so that T4 parts could be done, and thus a Scientist isn't having to wait even longer to go do the parts run.

It should be a fair assumption that the captains orders override whatever anyone else in science wanted to do, especially on mrp where the chain of command is a bigger deal.

A fair assumption doesn't mean the scientist had a crystal ball to guess the captain's orders, and they still got a dozen toolbox hits to the forehead for it.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

I'm surprised that this far into an argument you're clearly invested in you're still directly misrepresenting the situation. The captain specifically demanded to be given a gravity core mod (experimental anomaly core tech), as a condition of letting Imitates have the access to refine his own core. stating "the permission was to do ordnance not to waste research points" is wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Hilarious to see you accuse me of misrepresenting the situation while actively doing that yourself.

It was something they'd still have gotten in the end. All they'd have to do is just Wait. I doubt the Captain's going to throw a fit that Imitates took slightly longer so that T4 parts could be done, and thus a Scientist isn't having to wait even longer to go do the parts run.

Now you're taking creative liberties with what you've said in the posts that are literally being quoted, new low!

[TheLoLSwat]

A fair assumption doesn't mean the scientist had a crystal ball to guess the captain's orders, and they still got a dozen toolbox hits to the forehead for it.

[2023-12-09 07:45:21.660] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "was up" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:45:27.459] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "ordnance testing lab and ordnance storage please" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:45:52.755] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "let me ask the science department fisrt" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:46:11.133] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "Is anyone working on ords at the moment" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:46:45.243] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "if not im assining a assistant to it and you will all suffer this pain" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))

[2023-12-09 08:04:11.380] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "No, its for the captain. I can refine another one for oyu if you order it though" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

[2023-12-09 08:04:24.809] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "he gave me toxicology access on the condition I refine this for him" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

[2023-12-09 08:05:24.687] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "And? Cap gave me access, I can be here if I want" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

Even if they didnt have a crystal ball, the captain informing all of science what is going on, and then the assistant in question referring to the captains specific orders multiple times should be enough for the scientist to, at the very least, consult with authority instead of jumping to threats which got them toolbox'd

[CMDR_Gungnir]

A fair assumption doesn't mean the scientist had a crystal ball to guess the captain's orders, and they still got a dozen toolbox hits to the forehead for it.

[2023-12-09 07:45:21.660] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "was up" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:45:27.459] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "ordnance testing lab and ordnance storage please" (Fore Central Primary Hallway (137,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:45:52.755] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "let me ask the science department fisrt" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:46:11.133] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "Is anyone working on ords at the moment" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))
[2023-12-09 07:46:45.243] GAME-SAY: Petalmeat/(Minnie Kanaga) (mob_3447) "if not im assining a assistant to it and you will all suffer this pain" (Head of Personnel's Office (139,129,2))

[2023-12-09 08:04:11.380] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "No, its for the captain. I can refine another one for oyu if you order it though" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

[2023-12-09 08:04:24.809] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "he gave me toxicology access on the condition I refine this for him" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

[2023-12-09 08:05:24.687] GAME-SAY: Typhnox/(Imitates-The-Lizards) (mob_3471) "And? Cap gave me access, I can be here if I want" (Research and Development (139,95,2))

Even if they didnt have a crystal ball, the captain informing all of science what is going on, and then the assistant in question referring to the captains specific orders multiple times should be enough for the scientist to, at the very least, consult with authority instead of jumping to threats which got them toolbox'd

The Captain informed Science that they would have an Assistant doing Ordnance.

Not that the Assistant now has more rights to Science than the Scientists do. Not that the Assistant is allowed to waste research points. That's not "Doing Ordnance".

It rubs me the wrong way, and I don't think it's something we should be encouraging or allowing on Manuel. We have the Stay In Your Lane rules, and as I'd tried to tell Imitates a few times, the permission from the Captain was to do Ordnance, not to waste research points on stuff. Which means it really is just a tider doing someone else's job.

I'm surprised that this far into an argument you're clearly invested in you're still directly misrepresenting the situation. The captain specifically demanded to be given a gravity core mod (experimental anomaly core tech), as a condition of letting Imitates have the access to refine his own core. stating "the permission was to do ordnance not to waste research points" is wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Hilarious to see you accuse me of misrepresenting the situation while actively doing that yourself.

It was something they'd still have gotten in the end. All they'd have to do is just Wait. I doubt the Captain's going to throw a fit that Imitates took slightly longer so that T4 parts could be done, and thus a Scientist isn't having to wait even longer to go do the parts run.

Now you're taking creative liberties with what you've said in the posts that are literally being quoted, new low!

Citation needed. None of what I said there contradicts what I've said anywhere else. The Captain didn't give him permission to waste the points on it while a Scientist was actively waiting to be able to do their job, and you fucking know it. Everything I've said has been consistent, if you're going to be a cunt to me at least have some fucking merit to it.

[dendydoom]

if the discussion cannot be civil then this thread serves no purpose: the matter is wholly resolved and there's no going back once the gavel hits the bench.

it's worth noting that the player still served a 12 hour ban: the actual punishment.

what was overturned was the note afterwards, because it's quite clear (especially from the fact that no one can agree in this thread) that the situation was nuanced enough that what was placed would've been unfair to the player. it would not have been fit for the purpose of fairly and accurately informing future admins when they might need to make subsequent rulings, and to make it accurate would just unduly complicate any further rulings because they'd need to read a novel. so ultimately while there are aspects of this situation that merit discussion and consideration, for record taking purposes, a note is not fair or helpful.

cya!