Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
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- Indie-ana Jones
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Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
You're busy sitting in your coder cube plugging away at your Jellybean PR when oranges bursts into your cube and demands you stop what you're working on and do a Heretic rework. Since you don't want to get fired from your prestigious maintainer position, you agree to do it. What do you change?
- Jacquerel
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
give me a few weeks to spin up the doc im already planning on it
- Indie-ana Jones
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- TheRex9001
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Trim main paths to 5 knowledges each, remove sidepaths as they are (moving into other paths) and instead just have a larger pool of sideknowledges that don't really relate to any specific path but include more gimmicky things over just spells that kill people. I'd also say making sacs the only way to move up the main path whilst points are spent on sideknowledges instead.
- Jacquerel
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
You pick a path and start with more shit than you do at present after doing so
Every time you make a sacrifice (up to 4 times) you get the next step on the path (probably 1 active & 1 passive ability)
Every time you collect an Influence you unlock a slot for an additional ability drafted from a pool of abilities shared by all heretics (mostly utility skills) and can have like 3-4 of these (each influence also gives you a respec token or something)
idk what if anything im doing with ascending yet
I want higher lows and lower highs in terms of power, a roundstart heretic shouldnt be mostly a punching bag
It should be somewhat easier to be able to tell what a heretic can actually do by reducing the number of things any individual person can do
You also should never have two full rows of action buttons because that's just horrid
Heretic was originally and intentionally designed as a "high skill ceiling antag for pro players"
this is stupid and not how the game works
i want it to not be a complete crapshoot in terms of how threatening it is, but also keep it differentiated from other antagonists (so not just offering a Heretic Shop you buy stuff from)
probably some other shit, like i said i havent written the document yet
- Omega_DarkPotato
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
in whats going to be the worlds least enjoyable zero fun take
drop ascending, legitimately
it makes everyone treat heretics as a ticking nuke because they have the potential to EVENTUALLY be a round-ender, and so a mid-threat antagonist gets the rabid validhunters rushing after em like they're nukeops
if you want heretic to be less of a high-skill-ceiling make them less of a Massive Threat in everyone else's eyes
(itll also make handling them ruleswise easier on mrp i think)
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- Jacquerel
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
not to like turn people against me before I have even started butOmega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:23 pmin whats going to be the worlds least enjoyable zero fun take
drop ascending, legitimately
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/79788
- Jacquerel
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
oh yeah handful of other things:
- remove the phobia and replace it with something more fun for both player and heretic
- maybe make tapped influences actually do something path-based
- implement slightly different minigames for each path
none of these are essential for my vision but are nice to haves
i might do the first one like, independent and before any rework
- remove the phobia and replace it with something more fun for both player and heretic
- maybe make tapped influences actually do something path-based
- implement slightly different minigames for each path
none of these are essential for my vision but are nice to haves
i might do the first one like, independent and before any rework
- oranges
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I'd like to hear more about your jellybean PR though
- TheRex9001
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I really love ascensions for heretics, it rounds of the usually pretty good stories each path have with a finale, it would be a shame to see them go. In any case someone sent me a txt file with a bunch of pretty neat heretic ideas so I'll mention that stuff like this idea:
"String Theory – Gives you access to a new spell. This spell can be used on any stunned or any creature in critical condition; does not work on undead or corpses. After a delay one of your arms is blocked by a bunch of strings and the stunned target gets up and begins to obey your orders. This spell can be used to control up to two creatures, one for each blocked hand. When the controlled creature takes enough damage to fall into crit it will be released from the strings."
Is shit I really dig, I love it when an item/spell can be the base for an entire gimmick
"String Theory – Gives you access to a new spell. This spell can be used on any stunned or any creature in critical condition; does not work on undead or corpses. After a delay one of your arms is blocked by a bunch of strings and the stunned target gets up and begins to obey your orders. This spell can be used to control up to two creatures, one for each blocked hand. When the controlled creature takes enough damage to fall into crit it will be released from the strings."
Is shit I really dig, I love it when an item/spell can be the base for an entire gimmick
- DrAmazing343
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I fucking love Heretic’s madman/woman on a tear towards ever-increasing otherworldly power and insanity, tearing rifts in reality itself to harness the latent energy just behind the veil. The Ascension is always the cherry on top of the wonderful little sundae; I’d hate to see it go, hate-hate-hate it!
If I were to rework the antag, however, like the others have said— simplification and smoothing out the power creep would make for a better, more consistent play experience for all but the most experienced. Better start, lesser end; so long as we keep our Ascensions.
You've summoned a piece of the Hill of Rust, and so the Hills welcome you.
If I were to rework the antag, however, like the others have said— simplification and smoothing out the power creep would make for a better, more consistent play experience for all but the most experienced. Better start, lesser end; so long as we keep our Ascensions.
You've summoned a piece of the Hill of Rust, and so the Hills welcome you.
- Striders13
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
just make sacs kill the target, reviving is stupid
- xzero314
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I am a enjoyer of heretic and how it is currently, but change is good. I thought the idea of having places where the heretic can do a profane ritual and defile the area in a way based off their path would be awesome. Basically ways for you to be a warlock thats messing with the station without direct murder. Inspired by the painting ability from moon and the door portal ability from knock.
Last edited by xzero314 on Sun Apr 14, 2024 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
heretic needs more utility abilities instead of just combat shit, late game heretic still does not have the gimmick power available to the cheapest shit in a tot's uplink.
Even ling is better at gimmicks than heretic because ling just gives you survive-ability and no scaling so you can just focus on making those gimmicks.
At the very least heretic should interact more with existing mechanics like ash being able to heat up atmos and chem containers like canisters and beakers.
Even ling is better at gimmicks than heretic because ling just gives you survive-ability and no scaling so you can just focus on making those gimmicks.
At the very least heretic should interact more with existing mechanics like ash being able to heat up atmos and chem containers like canisters and beakers.
List of my favorite TG Staff.
Spoiler:
- Justice12354
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- Sightld2
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I rename Void into Winter or Frost because it's so silly that we have both VOID and COSMOS.
- Imitates-The-Lizards
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
This all looks great actually.Jacquerel wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:19 pmYou pick a path and start with more shit than you do at present after doing so
Every time you make a sacrifice (up to 4 times) you get the next step on the path (probably 1 active & 1 passive ability)
Every time you collect an Influence you unlock a slot for an additional ability drafted from a pool of abilities shared by all heretics (mostly utility skills) and can have like 3-4 of these (each influence also gives you a respec token or something)
idk what if anything im doing with ascending yet
Please do not touch ascension at all.
- TheRex9001
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Wake up Justice a new heretic pr dropped
- mrmelbert
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Headcoders already asked me to do this once wtf
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- iansdoor
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Yes m'lord.
Job's done
An average yellow rock hater and the main reason you may get your shuttle recalled.
- Tegun
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Me not that kind of orc!iansdoor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:23 pmYes m'lord.
Job's done
- massa
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- Constellado
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I would rework the tech tree to be an actual tree and not a grid
- DATAxPUNGED
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
What i am coding rn is to tie the mansus grasp to the living heart so sec can actually contain a heretic. The heretic can still get it back on a ritual circle they prepared beforehand
- Jacquerel
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I already told you this on Discord but if this removes your ability to draw the circle you need to get the heart back I will not merge it
- DATAxPUNGED
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Just preemptively draw a circle in maints to use when you eventually escape, at least this is how i imagined this nerf would go
- Jacquerel
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I don't think heretics should be the only regularly occuring solo antagonist that you can entirely deconvert into a regular guy
- xzero314
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Anybody can remove runes with a null rod. Being permanently screwed over like that would suck. I cant see how this is a good idea? Why bother being kept in the round as a heretic if you have had all your heretic stuff removed permanently. Just kill them at that point.DATAxPUNGED wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:20 pmJust preemptively draw a circle in maints to use when you eventually escape, at least this is how i imagined this nerf would go
- BonChoi
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
remove heretic
Another bad take provided by yours truly.
Istoprocent1 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:36 pm Baseless claims. I have been to the vault minimum of 38 times, how many suicides?
- Imitates-The-Lizards
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- DATAxPUNGED
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
That's fair enough tbh i'll make it so you can still draw it somehow
- Scriptis
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
heretics now explode when they die killing everyone and destroying everything in a 15 tile radius
heretics now have one hp
people who kill a heretic fnr are now permanently banned
heretics now have one hp
people who kill a heretic fnr are now permanently banned
- Featherfield
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I remove all of the code because heretics are stupid and leaving gaping wounds in reality all over the station is stupidIndie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:11 pm You're busy sitting in your coder cube plugging away at your Jellybean PR when oranges bursts into your cube and demands you stop what you're working on and do a Heretic rework. Since you don't want to get fired from your prestigious maintainer position, you agree to do it. What do you change?
- Constellado
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Has more than one roundstart heretic been done yet?
Will I have to make a policy thread?
Will I have to make a policy thread?
- vect0r
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Please do.Constellado wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:21 pm Has more than one roundstart heretic been done yet?
Will I have to make a policy thread?
- Constellado
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I worry I am going to go insane and start doing a mega rant that is so deranged nobody takes me seriously.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 4:01 amPlease do.Constellado wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:21 pm Has more than one roundstart heretic been done yet?
Will I have to make a policy thread?
I HAVN'T PLAYED HERETIC IN TWOOO MONTHS.
TWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*Implodes*
- PapaMichael
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Janitor should be able to mop away runes, that's like the soul of ss13xzero314 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:53 pmAnybody can remove runes with a null rod. Being permanently screwed over like that would suck. I cant see how this is a good idea? Why bother being kept in the round as a heretic if you have had all your heretic stuff removed permanently. Just kill them at that point.DATAxPUNGED wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:20 pmJust preemptively draw a circle in maints to use when you eventually escape, at least this is how i imagined this nerf would go
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- Donglesplonge
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
i think everyone involved should do their part and hide heretic blades in crates in maints more often
also please do elaborate on the jellybean PR this piques my interest i like jellybeans
also please do elaborate on the jellybean PR this piques my interest i like jellybeans
- Vekter
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
I have like two issues with Heretic right now:
1) The funny hand dimension isn't fun or interesting. I like the idea of players being able to fight to come back, but "just dodge the hands" sucks and is not enjoyable and kind of screws over players with high ping.
2) Heretics can kind of just do too much as it is right now. The wiki page isn't up to date, not because nobody has bothered to do it, but because we would need to completely reformat it for it to display correctly due to the current tree being too fucking big as it is. It's becoming harder and harder to remember everything that a Heretic might do, which I guess isn't the end of the world, but it makes fighting them much harder when I don't know if it's a Knock or Cosmic or fucking whatever Heretic.
1) The funny hand dimension isn't fun or interesting. I like the idea of players being able to fight to come back, but "just dodge the hands" sucks and is not enjoyable and kind of screws over players with high ping.
2) Heretics can kind of just do too much as it is right now. The wiki page isn't up to date, not because nobody has bothered to do it, but because we would need to completely reformat it for it to display correctly due to the current tree being too fucking big as it is. It's becoming harder and harder to remember everything that a Heretic might do, which I guess isn't the end of the world, but it makes fighting them much harder when I don't know if it's a Knock or Cosmic or fucking whatever Heretic.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- TheRex9001
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Actually the current wiki IS up to date and has been for a while (since like January).Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:17 pm I have like two issues with Heretic right now:
1) The funny hand dimension isn't fun or interesting. I like the idea of players being able to fight to come back, but "just dodge the hands" sucks and is not enjoyable and kind of screws over players with high ping.
2) Heretics can kind of just do too much as it is right now. The wiki page isn't up to date, not because nobody has bothered to do it, but because we would need to completely reformat it for it to display correctly due to the current tree being too fucking big as it is. It's becoming harder and harder to remember everything that a Heretic might do, which I guess isn't the end of the world, but it makes fighting them much harder when I don't know if it's a Knock or Cosmic or fucking whatever Heretic.
- Vekter
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Oh, it is. It's a goddamn nightmare to read, though.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:21 pmActually the current wiki IS up to date and has been for a while (since like January).Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:17 pm I have like two issues with Heretic right now:
1) The funny hand dimension isn't fun or interesting. I like the idea of players being able to fight to come back, but "just dodge the hands" sucks and is not enjoyable and kind of screws over players with high ping.
2) Heretics can kind of just do too much as it is right now. The wiki page isn't up to date, not because nobody has bothered to do it, but because we would need to completely reformat it for it to display correctly due to the current tree being too fucking big as it is. It's becoming harder and harder to remember everything that a Heretic might do, which I guess isn't the end of the world, but it makes fighting them much harder when I don't know if it's a Knock or Cosmic or fucking whatever Heretic.
Like I really wouldn't mind if we put a stop on all new Heretic paths for a while. I think we're good.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- TheRex9001
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
We have a freeze until heretic is refactored/reworked or until the same is done to sidepathing. This was pronounced after we got the latest path.Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:23 pmOh, it is. It's a goddamn nightmare to read, though.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:21 pmActually the current wiki IS up to date and has been for a while (since like January).Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:17 pm I have like two issues with Heretic right now:
1) The funny hand dimension isn't fun or interesting. I like the idea of players being able to fight to come back, but "just dodge the hands" sucks and is not enjoyable and kind of screws over players with high ping.
2) Heretics can kind of just do too much as it is right now. The wiki page isn't up to date, not because nobody has bothered to do it, but because we would need to completely reformat it for it to display correctly due to the current tree being too fucking big as it is. It's becoming harder and harder to remember everything that a Heretic might do, which I guess isn't the end of the world, but it makes fighting them much harder when I don't know if it's a Knock or Cosmic or fucking whatever Heretic.
Like I really wouldn't mind if we put a stop on all new Heretic paths for a while. I think we're good.
- Donglesplonge
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
heretic hand dimension kills people with high ping and is completely trivial to anyone and you have to willingly let yourself die and or have robotic limbs to die in it when you have low ping
seriously i've only died to the hands dimension one time and it was due to my quad amputee character having both of her legs broken and both of her arms malfunctioning it takes THAT MUCH OF A HANDICAP for it to do anything to you (unless you have bad ping in which case you eat 9 of the hands at one time and get vaporized)
seriously i've only died to the hands dimension one time and it was due to my quad amputee character having both of her legs broken and both of her arms malfunctioning it takes THAT MUCH OF A HANDICAP for it to do anything to you (unless you have bad ping in which case you eat 9 of the hands at one time and get vaporized)
- oranges
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
So about the jelly beans?
- CMDR_Gungnir
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Honestly I'm even hesitant to say it screws over players with high ping, I'm playing on Manuel from Australia and I've never died to the funny hand dimension.
It's kinda just a non-factor most of the time unless you're what someone else said, robo limbs losing the ability to move.
- Sightld2
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
Australians are used to the environment trying to kill them and actually have an unfair advantage in the hell dimension
- TheSmallBlue
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
New catgirl themed heretic path
- dendydoom
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
okay hold on everyone be quiet we might have something here
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
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Re: Oranges Asks YOU To Rework Heretic
go on
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