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https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ead#unreadGood luck.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Stickymayhem wrote:Imagine the sheer narcisssim required to genuinely believe you are this intelligent.
XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Bro he investigated the spare which was fine. Even keeping it for a bit was fine.
The part that turned him into valid salad was when he went out of his way to keep it hidden from the captain when specifically asked - even going so far as to literally say "oh I guess the clown lost it what a shame "
All he had to do to not be banned was ANY of the following
- Leave it in the evidence room
Give it to the captain
Not directly lie to the captain about not having it
Not ahelp his death claiming "oh I have no idea why the clown would want me dead I guess he's just a shitter? Please ban him"
Again, I’m not interested in this case in particular as it has run its course 5x over, I’m asking these questions to clarify SoP for the future.sinfulbliss wrote:I’m just left with two lasting questions (about policy applied from this case, not about this case in particular at all)
ask a head who's second-in-command or the capsinfulbliss wrote:XivilaiAnaxes wrote:Bro he investigated the spare which was fine. Even keeping it for a bit was fine.
The part that turned him into valid salad was when he went out of his way to keep it hidden from the captain when specifically asked - even going so far as to literally say "oh I guess the clown lost it what a shame "
All he had to do to not be banned was ANY of the following
- Leave it in the evidence room
Give it to the captain
Not directly lie to the captain about not having it
Not ahelp his death claiming "oh I have no idea why the clown would want me dead I guess he's just a shitter? Please ban him"Again, I’m not interested in this case in particular as it has run its course 5x over, I’m asking these questions to clarify SoP for the future.sinfulbliss wrote:I’m just left with two lasting questions (about policy applied from this case, not about this case in particular at all)
play opus: echo of starsongSuper Aggro Crag wrote:This is what u get when u let people into your community
well sure, it is.1) How is possession of the spare not a security risk that should be investigated seriously by sec?
Finding out the captain could be MiA sounds like something to investigate. Could ask the cmo to check suit sensors and the ai to track the captain while sec radioing for the hos to try and raise them on command which would also alert the other heads to the growing situation.2) How is a security officer supposed to validly confirm the validity of the spare’s owner if the captain doesn’t respond due to being, say, killed from the very guy you are temporarily detaining?
Please send more this is gold.MrStonedOne wrote:https://tgstation13.org/msoshit/Daisy%2 ... 20Law.html
anywho, this thread is running its course, have some goodshitsec.
how the fuck is this a problemAn issue at stake in this appeal is the rule of “act like an antag, get treated like an antag”, and the idea that illegitimate arrests can be escalated as any conflict, even to a surprise instant death attack.
oh no so someone made an assumption based on limited information and an IC conflict aroseI was unable to find any evidence that Laughing was aware that the Clown had been given the spare before the Cap asked if he was carrying it, but there was evidence that he did not believe the Clown’s claims beforehand.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE DIPSHITS THE BAN IS NOT ABOUT POWERGAMING AND TAKING THE ID, IT NEVER WAS, IT WAS FOR AHELPING THE CLOWN AND TELLING THE ADMIN THAT IT WAS UNPROVOKEDAll this considered, what logs/policy/rules/etc I have looked into seem to show that Laughing’s largest offense would be keeping the spare for himself and lying to the Cap that he’d had it. If, though, security is allowed to be escalated against for not legitimate arrests, and it has already been asserted that this is powergaming, I’m not sure what about this isn’t IC. Powergaming is allowed in LRP and is banned on Manuel.
the thing is, that "almost like it was wrong to give it to the clown in the first place!" thing is like... that comes across to me as the guy basically acting like he's untouchable because of his red shirtPandarsenic wrote:Imagine if he'd just used the say verb to communicate with the clown instead
Security has to operate on incomplete information. Going from 90% sure someone did something to 100% sure is nearly impossible and would require a degree of research and investigation that is essential impossible or, at the very least, completely impractical given the environment of a typical LRP round.Screemonster wrote:lmao now the volunteer lawyers are showing up
how the fuck is this a problemAn issue at stake in this appeal is the rule of “act like an antag, get treated like an antag”, and the idea that illegitimate arrests can be escalated as any conflict, even to a surprise instant death attack.
if you're worried that illegitimate arrests will get escalated into you getting killed then I guess you'd better put in some fucking effort to ensure your arrests are legit
Wrong.sinfulbliss wrote:If you can keep your cool you have a way better chance of sorting it out (although I agree that’d hard since it’s very annoying to be wrongfully arrested).
So you might have to take a gamble and risk suffering the consequences if you gamble and lose. So what?sinfulbliss wrote: Security has to operate on incomplete information. Going from 90% sure someone did something to 100% sure is nearly impossible and would require a degree of research and investigation that is essential impossible or, at the very least, completely impractical given the environment of a typical LRP round.
1. muh immersions at using OOC channels to resolve an IC problemsinfulbliss wrote: If we fuck up, you can actually ahelp for the wrongful arrest. The admin will bwoink us and we will explain our reasoning. The admin then, if we acted in good faith, will tell us we got it wrong and to release you. Bam, problem solved. Not all admins will do this I suppose, but it has happened in my experience enough that I am sure it is a legitimate avenue for a player wrongfully arrested.
A gamble where you're outgunned, outnumbered, and you're probably going to just die and piss yourself off further. That's "so what."Screemonster wrote: So you might have to take a gamble and risk suffering the consequences if you gamble and lose. So what?
I'm the last person to go OOC to resolve IC, but if sec wrongs you, you have very few options if you want to have a normal round afterwards aside from an ahelp.Screemonster wrote: 1. muh immersions at using OOC channels to resolve an IC problem
@supportminScreemonster wrote: 2. this is no fucking use if there isn't an admin about
Nah, you can do what you want. Just saying you'll end up perma-brigged or roundended, almost certainly, if you go the retaliation route.Screemonster wrote:3. So if an officer just straight-up unambigiously wrongs you but not in a way that's bannable (such as, oh I don't know, STEALING YOUR STUFF?) you're supposed to just "oh well he's not an antag and he didn't get banned so I guess my hands are tied"
I myself don't even ahelp sec for minor abuses, I resolve it IC, personally. My point is if you want to have a normal round after being wronged, you shouldn't resolve it IC. Can you read something with nuance for 20 seconds or does everything have to be "HURR SEC GOOD DON'T HURT SEC EVER" when you disagree with it? If you want to retaliate yourself and turn your round into a plot for revenge, go ahead! It's exactly what I do too! It's just a terrible idea if you wanted to, I don't know, do a job or chill.Screemonster wrote:anyone who advocates "you should ahelp them instead of taking matters into your own hands" for something that, while opening them to IC retaliation, isn't against the rules for them to do is missing some fucking neurons.
Timberpoes wrote: Lepi was right all along.
then what the fuck are you even arguing aboutsinfulbliss wrote: I myself don't even ahelp sec for minor abuses, I resolve it IC, personally. My point is if you want to have a normal round after being wronged, you shouldn't resolve it IC. Can you read something with nuance for 20 seconds or does everything have to be "HURR SEC GOOD DON'T HURT SEC EVER" when you disagree with it? If you want to retaliate yourself and turn your round into a plot for revenge, go ahead! It's exactly what I do too! It's just a terrible idea if you wanted to, I don't know, do a job or chill.
it's pretty much resolved and the remnants of the thread are arguing over dumb shit that no longer matters. I only follow the thread at this point to see how retarded sec bootlicking can get.Naloac wrote:thankfully I mostlikely dont have to read any of this.
He is literally just arguing for the sake of arguingScreemonster wrote:then what the fuck are you even arguing aboutsinfulbliss wrote: I myself don't even ahelp sec for minor abuses, I resolve it IC, personally. My point is if you want to have a normal round after being wronged, you shouldn't resolve it IC. Can you read something with nuance for 20 seconds or does everything have to be "HURR SEC GOOD DON'T HURT SEC EVER" when you disagree with it? If you want to retaliate yourself and turn your round into a plot for revenge, go ahead! It's exactly what I do too! It's just a terrible idea if you wanted to, I don't know, do a job or chill.
"players should be allowed to resolve conflicts IC without being forced to involve the admins or getting banned when security is the instigator"
"NO, I PERSONALLY RESOLVE CONFLICTS IC WHEN I CAN I'M JUST AWARE THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES"
what the actual fuck are you arguing for
yes if you escalate against sec and other sec see you doing a murder then you're valid salad and you can't round remove them as they're legitimately responding to a crime
nobody's saying it's a good idea to fight sec that fuck with you, just that the sec shouldn't have admin protection from such
Literally you are.Screemonster wrote: then what the fuck are you even arguing about
nobody's saying it's a good idea to fight sec that fuck with you, just that the sec shouldn't have admin protection from such
You realize you can ahelp things that aren't explicitly "against the rules," right? "Wrongful confiscation" isn't a rule but in this very thread it got someone secbanned for 30 days. Bad faith sec abuse falls under rule 1 and can be ahelped, and that's literally a better avenue than "taking matters into your own hands," if you had ideas for the round that involved something other than fighting with sec.Screemonster wrote: anyone who advocates "you should ahelp them instead of taking matters into your own hands" for something that, while opening them to IC retaliation, isn't against the rules for them to do is missing some fucking neurons.
WRONG!! It's enforced by an explosive lance. If I greytide into any area on the station, and you don't spend at least 30 minutes collecting fingerprints, video and photo evidence, eye witness reports as well as verifying all of these in a publicly held court AND adjust the time according to all the factors listed in space law BEFORE you put me in a cell for two minutes, you are valid to escalation and I WILL teleport an high explosive near the vicinity of your chest area that will detonate and eviscerate all of your limbs and vital organs AND you will be banned for an entire month if you dare to ahelp it!sinfulbliss wrote:Sec is held to a higher standard because of the power differential, that standard isn't enforced via IC means it's enforced via admins.
You know BONERMASTER has lost his chill when he doesn't sign up his post. I hope you're proud of what your actions achieved here Sinful.BONERMASTER wrote:WRONG!! It's enforced by an explosive lance. If I greytide into any area on the station, and you don't spend at least 30 minutes collecting fingerprints, video and photo evidence, eye witness reports as well as verifying all of these in a publicly held court AND adjust the time according to all the factors listed in space law BEFORE you put me in a cell for two minutes, you are valid to escalation and I WILL teleport an high explosive near the vicinity of your chest area that will detonate and eviscerate all of your limbs and vital organs AND you will be banned for an entire month if you dare to ahelp it!sinfulbliss wrote:Sec is held to a higher standard because of the power differential, that standard isn't enforced via IC means it's enforced via admins.
Lmao okay that's fucking funny . I have nothing more to argue.BONERMASTER wrote:WRONG!! It's enforced by an explosive lance. If I greytide into any area on the station, and you don't spend at least 30 minutes collecting fingerprints, video and photo evidence, eye witness reports as well as verifying all of these in a publicly held court AND adjust the time according to all the factors listed in space law BEFORE you put me in a cell for two minutes, you are valid to escalation and I WILL teleport an high explosive near the vicinity of your chest area that will detonate and eviscerate all of your limbs and vital organs AND you will be banned for an entire month if you dare to ahelp it!sinfulbliss wrote:Sec is held to a higher standard because of the power differential, that standard isn't enforced via IC means it's enforced via admins.
Desperately flailing trying to turn the court of public opinion to his side not realizing no one is going to try and overthrow MSO like they did scaredy, erro, and an0n3 because he's been keeping the lights on for years and gets involved with administrative shit like once every 27 monthstechnokek wrote:Why is Laughingx still replying to the thread? He said he wouldn't any more...
I heard about a headmin that overruled MSO once. I forgot their name. We all forgot their name actually. Technically I think they don't have a name anymore. I always wondered why they quit SS13 right after... I heard they died a few days later too. It was from natural causes, if memory serves... Like I said I don't remember their name though.Super Aggro Crag wrote:Desperately flailing trying to turn the court of public opinion to his side not realizing no one is going to try and overthrow MSO like they did scaredy, erro, and an0n3 because he's been keeping the lights on for years and gets involved with administrative shit like once every 27 monthstechnokek wrote:Why is Laughingx still replying to the thread? He said he wouldn't any more...
lmao at bothering to read that.Laughingx wrote:That last post
Defendant's last reply was a bit sloppy, some of his sentences were kind of incoherent from the fatigue but still a solid 8/10.Farquaar wrote:More words does not a better argument make.
Just like Elizabeth II of Britain... ?Super Aggro Crag wrote:Desperately flailing trying to turn the court of public opinion to his side not realizing no one is going to try and overthrow MSO like they did scaredy, erro, and an0n3 because he's been keeping the lights on for years and gets involved with administrative shit like once every 27 monthstechnokek wrote:Why is Laughingx still replying to the thread? He said he wouldn't any more...
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