/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Forum poster newbie makes shitty thread title

there'd be no substantial need for the headmins to offer reasons like that to sinful because they didn't ban him. MSO placed him on the blacklist. the most the headmins can do is speculate why MSO might have made that decision or give reasons why they would've banned him in their stead if he wasn't blacklisted. both of these are completely unproductive uses of time that just perpetuate an argument that neither side has the power to change at all.

the endgame of this situation is whether or not MSO feels like even reading the appeal, let alone changing it. that is the reality sinful and pepper are living in. this was out of the headmin's hands the moment sinful decided to take the elevator right up to the penthouse suite.

Blacklisted for being an unrelenting drain on admin team resources, and instead of appealing the blacklist as incorrect, he appeals the secondary permaban.

It surprises me not that the player blacklisted for being a drain on admin resources received precisely no additional admin resources when appealing something for pretty much for the purpose of draining admin resources.

410 replies man some of you really need to watch some sportsball or something

We need to get to 420, clearly.

I honestly didn't think this needed 9 pages since it seems what Sinful and Pepper did was an actual dick move.

It honestly does not matter what anyone thinks if MSO has already given it:

Archie700 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:28 pm
MSO has already given more info in tg-general discord

That's it, that's already the information that MSO put out. MSO has already made his judgement, given the evidence he had. MSO is also not easily convinced, we live by his rules, whether or not people like it. The chance of headmins being an evil cabal tricking MSO into blacklisting two innocent players is absolutely NIL, given his previous actions.

We also have to note that while the headmins are keeping their evidence under lock and key and are tight-lipped about the issue, making it look like they had something to hide, part of the the problem is that it's because the discord itself is private and the only way to get in is through invitation, making it more like a "he said she said" issue. The only reason why the headmins had all the logs was because someone leaked it all to clear themselves when Alamo and Armodias didn't, and the only reason why they asked to begin with was because they suspected there was a adminbus leak given a leak from another party.

BonChoi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:46 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:16 pm -snip-

the reality of the situation is that sinful went to the top of the mountain and got smited by zeus. whether or not his charred remains are left up on display or interred below the earth is an entirely empty gesture at this point that has no actual effect on the outcome of his appeal whatsoever. the only place it has any effect is on MSO's desk, which is where it is.

How do you just come up with this stuff? I wish I had the mental capacity to write my thoughts out as eloquently as you are able to.

Right? I read this and immediately decided I’m voting them for headmin just so everything can be written like it. If they don’t run I’m writing their name in.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:45 pm I honestly didn't think this needed 9 pages since it seems what Sinful and Pepper did was an actual dick move.

a fair number of people want the ban to be personally justified to them also

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:59 pm

CPTANT wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:45 pm I honestly didn't think this needed 9 pages since it seems what Sinful and Pepper did was an actual dick move.

a fair number of people want the ban to be personally justified to them also

it was a phase mom, i'm over it

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:52 pm there'd be no substantial need for the headmins to offer reasons like that to sinful because they didn't ban him. MSO placed him on the blacklist. the most the headmins can do is speculate why MSO might have made that decision or give reasons why they would've banned him in their stead if he wasn't blacklisted. both of these are completely unproductive uses of time that just perpetuate an argument that neither side has the power to change at all.

TBM quite literally did place a permanent ban intended to better explain the blacklist:

Used a private metacord to coordinate harassment and brigading within the ban appeals/players club subforums along with several other players. These actions were taken with admitted bad-faith intention to frustrate and incite burnout in the admin team, and to facilitate malice and drama within the community. Due to your extensive history, and receiving explicit proof of the above actions being your goals, we do not believe you are in this community in good faith or good will.

And Timberpoes later confirmed in the appeal that this permaban was an extension of the blacklist. So if all the headmins can do is speculate on the reason why Sinful got banned, why did they also do this? Is the ban reason here also mere speculation? It really sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, by going "oh the headmin team had no part in this, this is all MSO's doing" when the headmin team performed an extensive investigation, shared the evidence they found with other admins, and even attempted to clarify MSO's reason for placing the blacklist.

What too much ss13 does to someone

san7890 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:42 pm 410 replies man some of you really need to watch some sportsball or something

browns once again got trolled out of a season and the ravens look suspect as ever, sportsball is over

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:13 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:52 pm there'd be no substantial need for the headmins to offer reasons like that to sinful because they didn't ban him. MSO placed him on the blacklist. the most the headmins can do is speculate why MSO might have made that decision or give reasons why they would've banned him in their stead if he wasn't blacklisted. both of these are completely unproductive uses of time that just perpetuate an argument that neither side has the power to change at all.

TBM quite literally did place a permanent ban intended to better explain the blacklist:

Used a private metacord to coordinate harassment and brigading within the ban appeals/players club subforums along with several other players. These actions were taken with admitted bad-faith intention to frustrate and incite burnout in the admin team, and to facilitate malice and drama within the community. Due to your extensive history, and receiving explicit proof of the above actions being your goals, we do not believe you are in this community in good faith or good will.

And Timberpoes later confirmed in the appeal that this permaban was an extension of the blacklist. So if all the headmins can do is speculate on the reason why Sinful got banned, why did they also do this? Is the ban reason here also mere speculation? It really sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, by going "oh the headmin team had no part in this, this is all MSO's doing" when the headmin team performed an extensive investigation, shared the evidence they found with other admins, and even attempted to clarify MSO's reason for placing the blacklist.

i think these conclusions are the result of the rumor mill spinning. the headmin team reviewed what we needed to, and were lead to the belief that the blacklists applied here were necessary for the health of the server and community. we then passed that consensus onto MSO, who then took time to formulate his own opinion based on the evidence provided, and followed through on it. hope that helps clarify things.

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:13 pm

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:13 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:52 pm there'd be no substantial need for the headmins to offer reasons like that to sinful because they didn't ban him. MSO placed him on the blacklist. the most the headmins can do is speculate why MSO might have made that decision or give reasons why they would've banned him in their stead if he wasn't blacklisted. both of these are completely unproductive uses of time that just perpetuate an argument that neither side has the power to change at all.

TBM quite literally did place a permanent ban intended to better explain the blacklist:

Used a private metacord to coordinate harassment and brigading within the ban appeals/players club subforums along with several other players. These actions were taken with admitted bad-faith intention to frustrate and incite burnout in the admin team, and to facilitate malice and drama within the community. Due to your extensive history, and receiving explicit proof of the above actions being your goals, we do not believe you are in this community in good faith or good will.

And Timberpoes later confirmed in the appeal that this permaban was an extension of the blacklist. So if all the headmins can do is speculate on the reason why Sinful got banned, why did they also do this? Is the ban reason here also mere speculation? It really sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, by going "oh the headmin team had no part in this, this is all MSO's doing" when the headmin team performed an extensive investigation, shared the evidence they found with other admins, and even attempted to clarify MSO's reason for placing the blacklist.

i think these conclusions are the result of the rumor mill spinning. the headmin team reviewed what we needed to, and were lead to the belief that the blacklists applied here were necessary for the health of the server and community. we then passed that consensus onto MSO, who then took time to formulate his own opinion based on the evidence provided, and followed through on it. hope that helps clarify things.

Thanks for the transparency. Rlly appreciate it

Considering sinful/pepper played all the time and clearly had an intent to influence the game it seems like it would have been way less effort on their part to apply for admin positions to offset the "bad" admins rather than, if this information is correct, attempt to bog down the admins they didn't like by working outside the system.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:59 pm Considering sinful/pepper played all the time and clearly had an intent to influence the game it seems like it would have been way less effort on their part to apply for admin positions to offset the "bad" admins rather than, if this information is correct, attempt to bog down the admins they didn't like by working outside the system.

They wouldn't consider it to begin with

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:59 pm Considering sinful/pepper played all the time and clearly had an intent to influence the game it seems like it would have been way less effort on their part to apply for admin positions to offset the "bad" admins rather than, if this information is correct, attempt to bog down the admins they didn't like by working outside the system.

I like that theory, but it collapses when you remember that sinful has too much beef with the admin team, and pepper holds a grudge bigger than deez nuts

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

...and it comes around full circle



who's laughing now?

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:10 am who's laughing now?

Fucking loooooooool me I guess because that's hilarious

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:10 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

...and it comes around full circle



who's laughing now?

He just got banned for that? That happened like, last year

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:10 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

...and it comes around full circle



who's laughing now?

He just got banned for that? That happened like, last year

someone is out of the loop

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:10 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

...and it comes around full circle



who's laughing now?

He just got banned for that? That happened like, last year

someone is out of the loop

why do you act like your mother pushed in the soft spot on your skull when u were a baby

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:22 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:10 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

...and it comes around full circle



who's laughing now?

He just got banned for that? That happened like, last year

someone is out of the loop

why do you act like your mother pushed in the soft spot on your skull when u were a baby

bait

haha woah we got ourselves a little r/publicfreakouts over here

why cant you just be nice to each other

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:22 am why do you act like your mother pushed in the soft spot on your skull when u were a baby

Damn bro

we missed 420.

wtf is admin resources supposed to mean anyways
you're an admin on a 2d space game you have signed your time away to something unimportant already

8bot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:26 am wtf is admin resources supposed to mean anyways
you're an admin on a 2d space game you have signed your time away to something unimportant already

when we ban too many players we suddenly get the dota NOT ENOUGH MANA voiceline

i mean the real answer is that some players create trouble by ick ocking once a year and getting a note. most players keep it all in game and that's the average an admin expects. some cause community drama. if you're causing community drama all the time you're inevitably blocking admins time and burning them out

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:14 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:10 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

...and it comes around full circle



who's laughing now?

He just got banned for that? That happened like, last year

someone is out of the loop

Reply 420 at 3.14 AM

Fikou wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:51 pm

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:37 pm What's the difference? If Sinful had been properly banned from the forums, and made a new forum account to appeal, would it have remained? If so, why?

it wouldn't have been handled either way. theres no way of knowing if anything about it being hidden would be different if he made a different forum account to appeal because thats not the reality we're in.

No, but you can say what you would have done, unless it was a mistake, which can also be admitted.

Fikou wrote:

What would have been the effective difference? And if not, why would his case have been different from the others

it's not different from others in any special way, there have been blacklists that banned people's forum accounts, like MRTY's, who made a different account to appeal it a few years later. there is no specific protocol

I'm not saying that the banning of the forum account is any different, but that there's no effective difference between a forum account remaining unbanned, and him making a new one, as far as Appealing goes. If it had been banned as it was originally supposed to, he would have just made a new one like all the other Blacklists had to. The idea being "There IS no difference, so why is the end result different?"

People (not you, per se, but they're also reacting to this) bring up "It wasn't actually deleted, it was moved to a secret subforum that only MSO can see" but like, that's still different from every other one.

Fikou wrote:

why do you keep bringing up that it was supposed to ban his Forum Account too?

? this is the first time i mention it

Generalized You. (I think) I remember seeing TBM mentioning it, and all the other admins speaking out in defense of this keep bringing it up, too.

Personally, I feel he should have been banned from everything except ban appeals and on post approval there because a blacklist isn't technically forever, it's "on MSO's call"
There have been people banned from forums to the point they can't appeal in that account however: due to a blacklist
viewtopic.php?p=661930#p661930
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32152&p=647684&hil ... nn#p647684
Since ultimately MSO is the one to make the blacklist, the general idea is that it is his ultimate judgement to rescind as he sees fit, it is not up to anyone else but him to consider.

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:39 pm

san7890 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:42 pm 410 replies man some of you really need to watch some sportsball or something

browns once again got trolled out of a season and the ravens look suspect as ever, sportsball is over

don't count the ravens out they're coming back from a bye week this week and they just need to do good these next four games to prove it. i'm drinking the koolaid and saying ravens-lions super bowl

Heres a relevant question, has a blacklist ever been lifted?

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:58 am Heres a relevant question, has a blacklist ever been lifted?

Yes, if MSO finds out that the reasoning was poor, or if there were irregularities in the investigation.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:13 pm TBM quite literally did place a permanent ban intended to better explain the blacklist:

Used a private metacord to coordinate harassment and brigading within the ban appeals/players club subforums along with several other players. These actions were taken with admitted bad-faith intention to frustrate and incite burnout in the admin team, and to facilitate malice and drama within the community. Due to your extensive history, and receiving explicit proof of the above actions being your goals, we do not believe you are in this community in good faith or good will.

you mean the thing you and others are asking for was already done and didn't bring a satisfying conclusion to this never ending dumpster fire? i cannot believe this. it's almost like the goalposts mysteriously move whenever one desire is fulfilled.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:13 pm And Timberpoes later confirmed in the appeal that this permaban was an extension of the blacklist. So if all the headmins can do is speculate on the reason why Sinful got banned, why did they also do this? Is the ban reason here also mere speculation?

if we're being totally truthful here, yes. once MSO gets involved and makes the call you really are in the passenger seat at that point. he can do whatever he likes, whenever he likes, for whatever reason he likes. the headmins trying to make that more palatable to a userbase who are used to everything being debated in the court of public opinion is a gesture not made out of necessity but out of respect for some kind of procedure where things are explained and done for a reason.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:13 pm It really sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, by going "oh the headmin team had no part in this, this is all MSO's doing" when the headmin team performed an extensive investigation, shared the evidence they found with other admins, and even attempted to clarify MSO's reason for placing the blacklist.

some stuff didn't happen in the middle here. admins haven't seen logs. the only things we've been told that you haven't is why certain people were deadminned, which is pretty standard procedure.

yes, the headmins did conduct an investigation. but once MSO gets involved it's no longer their investigation. he is not some fool that can be easily swayed without double checking what you're saying. he's notoriously difficult to convince of anything and you'd better have your ducks in a neat row when you want him to agree with you on something. it really is a moot point beyond that to continue acting like the headmins are puppetmastering this whole thing from the shadows. did the headmins want sinful gone? were they going to permaban them both? yeah, probably. but that's not the reality we're living in anymore.

what i'm attempting to keep straight here is the shifting of responsibility that happens every 4 posts back onto a story that's not accurate. i'm not interested in covering for any admins or headmins when they do stuff wrong, i'm interested in correcting people when they come in here upset and post things that aren't accurate which immediately gets repeated by everyone in their orbit as fact.

if you'd like some real, honest speculation about why this wasn't dragged out into another huge argument with sinful like it's his last wild ride, then it's probably to do with the fact that he was removed for "being an unrelenting drain on resources" to deal with. the general sentiment from people who don't like this outcome is that they want headmins to go and do this anyway like it's doing right by sinful. it won't. it will, at most, in a perfect outcome for him, be giving him false hope. all of the things that could maximize sinful's chance to have his appeal read and considered by MSO have already been done.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:44 pm the forums were in sort of a nebulous position - with arm on vacation there were no other active mods, so it sort of fell to the headmins to keep an eye on it as well. now the new sweepers are in town.

i cant believe /tg/ admins get payed time off

Constellado wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:18 am we missed 420.

replies.png

i like to imagine that everytime when a thread reaches 420 posts MSO lights up a big cigar but instead of it being a regular cigar it's actually a weed cigar with weed in it

kawoppi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:51 pm

Constellado wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:18 am we missed 420.

replies.png

i like to imagine that everytime when a thread reaches 420 posts MSO lights up a big cigar but instead of it being a regular cigar it's actually a weed cigar with weed in it

we need MSO to share his 420 blunts with us or the community will suffer

SO CLOSE TO PAGE 10..

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:23 pm SO CLOSE TO PAGE 10..

it is page 10 you chumbis

It starts on 1, not 0...so we are on page 9

Also why is this thread still going unless we want them both unbanned, actually why is there more talk about sinful and none about pepper whats all the stuff they did.


Should we compile a history of everything they both did?

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:11 pm

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:23 pm SO CLOSE TO PAGE 10..

it is page 10 you chumbis

for u, but i cant see deleted posts so not for me

My most memorable ticket with pepper was the time they, a changeling who had stolen the captains ID, had an objective to kill the chef. They wordlessly walked into the kitchen and stood around for a while before the chef tried to remove them from the area. The chef ended up winning the fight and took them to medbay where they got revived and healed.

It was like a half hour ticket and the fight was complicated enough that I was had been going to each location where attacks and says had happened to make sure the chef was fine to be defending his workplace and not instigating stuff outside of it.

They admin complained that I didn't investigate hard enough.
My next best memory with pepper much later, I hadn't seen them for about a year. I was an antag and killed them. They ranted in OOC about how it was their first time back in a long time and I killed them. I didn't see them again for a few more months.

technokek wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:30 am

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:44 pm the forums were in sort of a nebulous position - with arm on vacation there were no other active mods, so it sort of fell to the headmins to keep an eye on it as well. now the new sweepers are in town.

i cant believe /tg/ admins get payed time off

Surely they can collectively bargain for more grief event tokens, maybe an extra day off from the ticket mines.

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:30 pm

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:11 pm

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:23 pm SO CLOSE TO PAGE 10..

it is page 10 you chumbis

for u, but i cant see deleted posts so not for me

oh damn those count

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:30 pm

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:11 pm

kinnebian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:23 pm SO CLOSE TO PAGE 10..

it is page 10 you chumbis

for u, but i cant see deleted posts so not for me

haha pleb

I will join the Page 10 cause. Let's go, Page 10 Soon!!!

we will never beat the amount of pages the counting threads got.

I am not starting a count.

NOOOO COUNTINGGGG!!!!1!!11!!!1

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:18 pm It starts on 1, not 0...so we are on page 9

Also why is this thread still going unless we want them both unbanned, actually why is there more talk about sinful and none about pepper whats all the stuff they did.


Should we compile a history of everything they both did?

Sinful was by far the more influential player, basically

Also forget about page 10, when are we going 500 posts