Clown vs Sec Peanut

[Pandarsenic]

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29477

Raise your hand if you think the sec officer just wanted all-access for himself!

[XivilaiAnaxes]

do you really have to play devil's advocate for everything? everyone already thinks you're a pedophile apologist who would rescue hitler from a burning synagogue

I laughed at the mental image

[Omega_DarkPotato]

So now the seccie who ahelped is getting banned for the ahelp?
That's kind of excessive. I mean the clown chose to resolve it ICly by blowing him up, so doesn't that mean it was IC?

Also, I strongly disagree with Naloac's and Jimmius's suggestion that mass AA is now not a problem because "AA can no longer be used to spread AA." Can't he simply create like 8 HoS silver IDs and hand those out? Even if it's not "full" AA, a HoS silver ID can cause a ton of damage. If even a few of those got out, it'd be a serious security risk. People could just tide brig and help themselves to batons and whatever else, delete their sec records, set sec to arrest, etc. At the very least the spare itself is a security threat, it's just silly to deny that. Should he have listened to the cap instead and let the clown be? Yes. Would it have been a security risk to do that? Also yes.

Sure it was a dick move to confiscate the spare from the clown when the cap gave it to him, but it seems insane to claim that the spare "isn't valid to confiscate" anymore.

I also don't think the sec officer intentionally abused the ahelp feature. He mentioned he saw the clown with AA, took it from him, then got killed. He ahelped the kill and questioned its validity. Simple enough to be honest. Yeah he knew the cap gave it to him, that's pretty much taken for granted when a clown has the spare. Seems like a stretch to say the ahelp was intentionally abusive.

-lied to captain
-refused to speak with clown to further instigate this IC action
-ahelped when he was killed after stealing (literally textbook banbaiting goddamn man)
-lied to staff in that his only interaction with the clown was 20m ago when he stole the spare (the clown had asked him during the first 10m after that to give the spare back which he simply walked away from)

lying to staff and banbaiting is a bannable offense.

[sinfulbliss]

So now the seccie who ahelped is getting banned for the ahelp?
That's kind of excessive. I mean the clown chose to resolve it ICly by blowing him up, so doesn't that mean it was IC?

if it's IC then he shouldn't fucking ahelp and lie to the admins telling them it wasn't provoked

Yeah I agree he was definitely stretching the truth by saying he thought it was stolen. But I think at the end of the day what he thought mattered was that he got killed for confiscating the spare, which he thought was a valid action to take as sec. I really think the bigger issue is whether the chain of command takes precedence over station security, and whether the spare is actually an item that sec should confiscate (just as they should confiscate batons for example).

EDIT: I think the term “banbaiting” here is completely misapplied. Banbaiting is when you do something *for the purpose* of annoying someone else enough so they do something banworthy. I don’t think Seth was confiscating the ID for that purpose. He was confiscating it for one, because as sec he didn’t think the clown with AA was a good idea, and two, because he wanted it for himself. Neither of those are for the purpose of “banbaiting.”

[Omega_DarkPotato]

So now the seccie who ahelped is getting banned for the ahelp?
That's kind of excessive. I mean the clown chose to resolve it ICly by blowing him up, so doesn't that mean it was IC?

if it's IC then he shouldn't fucking ahelp and lie to the admins telling them it wasn't provoked

Yeah I agree he was definitely stretching the truth by saying he thought it was stolen. But I think at the end of the day what he thought mattered was that he got killed for confiscating the spare, which he thought was a valid action to take as sec. I really think the bigger issue is whether the chain of command takes precedence over station security, and whether the spare is actually an item that sec should confiscate (just as they should confiscate batons for example).

An item that the captain announces belongs to someone is not an item sec should confiscate from that person and use for their own gain.

[sinfulbliss]

So now the seccie who ahelped is getting banned for the ahelp?
That's kind of excessive. I mean the clown chose to resolve it ICly by blowing him up, so doesn't that mean it was IC?

if it's IC then he shouldn't fucking ahelp and lie to the admins telling them it wasn't provoked

Yeah I agree he was definitely stretching the truth by saying he thought it was stolen. But I think at the end of the day what he thought mattered was that he got killed for confiscating the spare, which he thought was a valid action to take as sec. I really think the bigger issue is whether the chain of command takes precedence over station security, and whether the spare is actually an item that sec should confiscate (just as they should confiscate batons for example).

An item that the captain announces belongs to someone is not an item sec should confiscate and use for their own gain.

That’s a perfectly reasonable take. So the captain gets the final say. So, let’s take that to the extreme and say a traitor gets caught with an esword, and the cap demands he be released with the esword. Should sec not be allowed to confiscate it because the cap said so?

This is an extreme case but I am giving it to show that it’s not as simple as just following cap orders. When cap orders conflict with what is sensible to do as sec, you disobey them. So in that case you would obviously not release the traitor with the esword, despite cap saying you should. Each seccie differs in their judgment, and it’s perfectly reasonable to presume Seth thought the cap wasn’t being sensible in giving AA to the clown, and thus disobeyed him. That’s a motive other than “to steal it because I want it,” at least, which is the only motive some people can see.

I think if Seth was an assistant here he would have never stolen the ID, even if he had batons and cuffs, because he no longer has a valid reason to confiscate it.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Oh no Seccies will ignore captain orders and steal shit all the time its honestly part of the role-playing.

Whinging in ahelp that you faced IC consequences for it is what turns it into a cardinal sin.

[Gigapuddi420]

you should craft your extreme cases better, under typical LRP even if the Captain declares a traitor to be cool, rules-wise it's still fine to do whatever to them because they are antagonist. You aren't immune to the IC consequences but administratively antags are free game so long as you can reasonably establish they are antagonists.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

That’s a perfectly reasonable take. So the captain gets the final say. So, let’s take that to the extreme and say a traitor gets caught with an esword, and the cap demands he be released with the esword. Should sec not be allowed to confiscate it because the cap said so?

This is an extreme case but I am giving it to show that it’s not as simple as just following cap orders. When cap orders conflict with what is sensible to do as sec, you disobey them. So in that case you would obviously not release the traitor with the esword, despite cap saying you should. Each seccie differs in their judgment, and it’s perfectly reasonable to presume Seth thought the cap wasn’t being sensible in giving AA to the clown, and thus disobeyed him. That’s a motive other than “to steal it because I want it,” at least, which is the only motive some people can see.

I think if Seth was an assistant here he would have never stolen the ID, even if he had batons and cuffs, because he no longer has a valid reason to confiscate it.

1) that's a different case, one's a deadly weapon that has literally no other uses and one's an ID. One confirms someone to be a traitor and one doesn't. If I give you a friendly clap on the back and you smile should you also smile when I punch you, full-force, in the back of the head?? It's literally still just me touching you its just an extreme case bro
2) doesn't justify lying to the captain in order to not give it back (and keep it for himself to use)

both 1 and 2 open him up to the full range of IC actions in response, and moocow chose "fucking kill him" as the option of choice after trying a non-lethal approach to start.

lying to staff about it was what got seth the ban on top of it.

[sinfulbliss]

Oh no Seccies will ignore captain orders and steal shit all the time its honestly part of the role-playing.

Whinging in ahelp that you faced IC consequences for it is what turns it into a cardinal sin.

There is a difference between stealing and confiscating. "Stealing" is when there's no valid IC reason as sec to take something, and you take it anyway. That has IC consequences.
"Confiscating" is when you take something which is deemed a security risk (or, if you want to be spacelaw sec: was used in committing a crime). This does not have IC consequences.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Oh no Seccies will ignore captain orders and steal shit all the time its honestly part of the role-playing.

Whinging in ahelp that you faced IC consequences for it is what turns it into a cardinal sin.

There is a difference between stealing and confiscating. "Stealing" is when there's no valid IC reason as sec to take something, and you take it anyway. That has IC consequences.
"Confiscating" is when you take something which is deemed a security risk (or, if you want to be spacelaw sec: was used in committing a crime). This does not have IC consequences.

considering staff ruled against you I think you MAY be wrong!

[MrStonedOne]

EDIT: I think the term “banbaiting” here is completely misapplied. Banbaiting is when you do something *for the purpose* of annoying someone else enough so they do something banworthy. I don’t think Seth was confiscating the ID for that purpose. He was confiscating it for one, because as sec he didn’t think the clown with AA was a good idea, and two, because he wanted it for himself. Neither of those are for the purpose of “banbaiting.”

Abuse of adminhelp was the reason i used in the ban. Its also why i said "obviously banbaiting or other bad faith behavior" in my appeal response.

Its cut from the same cloth, but not quite the same thing.

That’s a motive other than “to steal it because I want it,” at least, which is the only motive some people can see.

If they weren't known for finding dubious reasons to confiscate people then keeping the loot, you'd have an argument.

I'm already this '' close to adding a rule that says that confiscation is only valid if it happens in the brig and the items are either stored in the armory, returned to their department, or given to research, otherwise it's theft. Since nobody here can see how keeping the items you "confiscated" on shady grounds looks bad the 1000x time you do it.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Lmao confiscating is when you take it and hide it away in an evidence locker or put it in a place where it belongs.

Stealing is when neuron activation occurs and you keep it because its a shiny bauble.

I'm the first person to admit I'm a terrible seccie - I hid clown shoes as warden that a detective blatantly stole from him while the captain + clowns lawyer came in looking for them. I took them out of the hiding place I put them in and sneakily threw them out the fucking airlock while they were talking about it.

Eventually this led to the clown spacewalking to find them and I was stuck in a courtroom which was blown up or siphoned by the AI I forget after I pda'd the sketchy fuck making vague duel related threats to the captain "hey hes in the courtroom heres your chance buddy".

It was a fucking funny as hell story and I hope the clown enjoyed the trial he set up. I'd do it all again too. Ahelping from my end in any part of that would have been hard cringe no matter how horribly murdered I was by various parties

[Pandarsenic]

So now the seccie who ahelped is getting banned for the ahelp?
That's kind of excessive. I mean the clown chose to resolve it ICly by blowing him up, so doesn't that mean it was IC?

if it's IC then he shouldn't fucking ahelp and lie to the admins telling them it wasn't provoked

In fact, even before you factor in lying in ahelps, inciting someone to kill you then ahelping when it happens is a specific, named administrative offense!

"Banbaiting!" Seen here working briefly, than backfiring stupdendously!

[RaveRadbury]

I'm already this '' close to adding a rule that says that confiscation is only valid if it happens in the brig and the items are either stored in the armory, returned to their department, or given to research, otherwise it's theft. Since nobody here can see how keeping the items you "confiscated" on shady grounds looks bad the 1000x time you do it.

Please

[sinfulbliss]

That’s a motive other than “to steal it because I want it,” at least, which is the only motive some people can see.

If they weren't known for finding dubious reasons to confiscate people then keeping the loot, you'd have an argument.

I'm already this '' close to adding a rule that says that confiscation is only valid if it happens in the brig and the items are either stored in the armory, returned to their department, or given to research, otherwise it's theft. Since nobody here can see how keeping the items you "confiscated" on shady grounds looks bad the 1000x time you do it.

That's completely reasonable. Confiscating something on shady ground meaning, something that doesn't really need to be confiscated, I assume. That should 100% make you valid as sec. Sec should only confiscate things they believe are big threats or that someone "shouldn't" have. Assistant with pipegun? Sure, not a big threat. Miner with lavastaff? Big threat, but it makes sense for them to have it. Scientist with autorifle? Confiscate.

As long as the reason for confiscation is rock-solid, what sec does with the item after probably doesn't matter too much. Also it's very painful putting a desword and contractor baton in the contraband locker to rot, I have learned by experience, since that's the rule on Fulp.

Lmao confiscating is when you take it and hide it away in an evidence locker or put it in a place where it belongs.

Stealing is when neuron activation occurs and you keep it because its a shiny bauble.

The "good faith" sec thought process is:
1) This item is a massive security threat and this person should 100% not have it
2) I am going to confiscate it
3) We might as well use it now since it's no longer a threat (in fact it will only make us better fighters against the threats)

The "bad faith" sec thought process is:
1) I want that item
2) I can probably make an excuse for confiscating it
3) Sweet, my loot now

Admins can easily differentiate between the two by determining whether the item was valid for confiscation or not.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

If you keep it on yourself it's looted equipment. If you snag a desword and aren't holding onto it specifically to counter an opponent you are actively hunting (with the intent to put it away immediately after) then it's looted equipment. You are 'allowed' to do this in most cases just don't pretend you're doing it 'the right way' and own up to being a magpie who likes shiny baubles.

[Screemonster]

the issue isn't that the sec officer swiped the ID it's that he whined to teacher like a little bitch when he got his knocks for it

[XivilaiAnaxes]

the issue isn't that the sec officer swiped the ID it's that he whined to teacher like a little bitch when he got his knocks for it

Ding ding ding ding ding

[sinfulbliss]

If you keep it on yourself it's looted equipment. If you snag a desword and aren't holding onto it specifically to counter an opponent you are actively hunting (with the intent to put it away immediately after) then it's looted equipment. You are 'allowed' to do this in most cases just don't pretend you're doing it 'the right way' and own up to being a magpie.

It's actually funny you mention that because I have an example where I held onto someone's desword, and then was assaulted by an esword, and the only reason I survived was because I held onto the desword. Literally no other weapon (baton, flashbang, etc) would have escaped the situation.
https://streamable.com/navx5d

Also, there is not really a "after you're done hunting," because you're constantly looking for threats until the shuttle arrives. In that situation I was actually just trying to order firesuits and wasn't even hunting. I would be very pissed if I had died in that situation because I left the desword in the contraband locker.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Just because you benefitted from looking an item doesn't make it "by the book" lol

I would also totally steal it but I'm not going to pretend I'm not being at least slightly crooked for doing it.

[cacogen]

the issue isn't that the sec officer swiped the ID it's that he whined to teacher like a little bitch when he got his knocks for it

I think abusing security's power when you have metaprotection to enrich yourself is a problem. The clown had the captain's permission to have the ID. The clown hadn't committed any crimes with the ID. if the ID is stolen by security and the officer lies about having it, the clown has little valid recourse to get it back. Security should have to follow the chain of command and not abuse their role for personal gain if they're given metaprotection that protects them from reprisal for doing their jobs.

[sinfulbliss]

Just because you benefitted from looking an item doesn't make it "by the book" lol

I would also totally steal it but I'm not going to pretend I'm not being at least slightly crooked for doing it.

The server is the god damned wild west, you dumb shit fucking moron. You act like everyone isn't fucking devouring each other. You're acting like non-antags aren't kidnapping and ruining other non-antags rounds. You're acting like security isn't constantly dying because their guns are absolute shit and a man with a toolbox and a sprayer full of lube dooesn't regularly kill sec. Bullshit.

As it stands now, antags are allowed to prance around doing whatever the fuck demented, sick shit they feel like, yet security has to toe the line and be the 'good guy' while getting fucking murdered in the process. Fuck that. Fuck that right in the god damned eyes and squish 'em into a paste, that's garbage. That's a sack of shit.

t.as a great man once said

[Pandarsenic]

Yeah, see, the thing is you can justify the DEsword as spoils of war or whatever

This was just bullying the clown then crying foul when he swung back.

[Screemonster]

yeah feel free to be a dirty cop just don't bitch when the dirt gets up your own nose

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Being called a pedophile apologist - I sleep

Being called a crooked cop - REAL SHIT ?

[cacogen]

yeah feel free to be a dirty cop just don't bitch when the dirt gets up your own nose

Most people do not feel empowered to do what the clown did this round against shitcurity. MooCow probably knew he was going to get banned for it, but felt the satisfication of doing it and the humour of it captured on video made it worthwhile. So if security are allowed to be shit (which they shouldn't be because then it relies on the robustness of the victims for there to be any sort of comeuppance) then it should be specified somewhere in the rules that getting revenge on them is acceptable and up to what point it's okay.

[MrStonedOne]

Yeah, see, the thing is you can justify the DEsword as spoils of war or whatever

This was just bullying the clown then crying foul when he swung back.

Its hard even in this case. a clown robusting an op with their pda and taking spoils of war will just lead to sec taking said spoils of war from the clown under the same clause with no attempt to understand what happened or why the clown has nuke op equipment. In this scenario I think the only sane thing would be to rule that in those cases the clown can use force to protect themselves from overzealous security. Or to put it another way, once sec starts treating you like an antag for quick misreads of situations, you should be allow to respond like an antag.

But i do agree that there is a distinction between spoils of war and standard confiscation.

Sec taking a sword off of an antag they subdued is spoils of war, Sec taking i-gloves or multitools used by an assistant to break into a department is confiscation (and sec taking the same items because "they passed a door with its panel opened so clearly I should get all their cool shit" is thief and redtiding.)

[Pandarsenic]

I'm already this '' close to adding a rule that says that confiscation is only valid if it happens in the brig and the items are either stored in the armory, returned to their department, or given to research, otherwise it's theft. Since nobody here can see how keeping the items you "confiscated" on shady grounds looks bad the 1000x time you do it.

Or to put it another way, once sec starts treating you like an antag for quick misreads of situations, you should be allow to respond like an antag

I'm exceptionally ready for this. "If you're shitsec, the people you shit on get to go to town on you" is well-deserved.

Sec taking a sword off of an antag they subdued is spoils of war, Sec taking i-gloves or multitools used by an assistant to break into a department is confiscation (and sec taking the same items because "they passed a door with its panel opened so clearly I should get all their cool shit" is thief and redtiding.)

"Spoils of War" isn't really a precise term, but what it loosely means to me is that when you stop a loud antag, you get their surviving goodies, whoever "you" is there. Spoils are not from someone else's kills, they are never the old user's random stolen or printed stuff, etc.

[Critawakets]

I'm already this '' close to adding a rule that says that confiscation is only valid if it happens in the brig and the items are either stored in the armory, returned to their department, or given to research, otherwise it's theft. Since nobody here can see how keeping the items you "confiscated" on shady grounds looks bad the 1000x time you do it.

You should. There's something akin of a rule "loophole" where if you confiscate anything even vaguely related to the crime as a sec officer, admins will usually accept that. And of course, you can use the confiscated items. I've seen it happen quite often in the past by experienced shitsec in order to get toolbelts and insulated gloves from engineers if they say, found them in an area they shouldnt be in. (because they probably hacked in so justified, duh)

[sinfulbliss]

I'm already this '' close to adding a rule that says that confiscation is only valid if it happens in the brig and the items are either stored in the armory, returned to their department, or given to research, otherwise it's theft. Since nobody here can see how keeping the items you "confiscated" on shady grounds looks bad the 1000x time you do it.

You should. There's something akin of a rule "loophole" where if you confiscate anything even vaguely related to the crime as a sec officer, admins will usually accept that. And of course, you can use the confiscated items. I've seen it happen quite often in the past by experienced shitsec in order to get toolbelts and insulated gloves from engineers if they say, found them in an area they shouldnt be in. (because they probably hacked in so justified, duh)

The sheer amount of confiscated items, not only from fully-stripped perma prisoners but from traitors and tiders alike, makes returning those individual items back to their departments essentially an impossible task. So the option is really just, let the items sit in evidence/contraband, or use them yourself, and it's often hard to figure out a good reason why you should let them sit in contraband. As long as the confiscation was valid and in good faith to begin with, that's not a problem. It only becomes a problem when people lose items they shouldn't be losing because sec wants them.

To put it in perspective, imagine stripping then sending a chemist to perma, and then having to put the poisons he made in contraband, the healing chems/syringe gun back to medbay, the toolbelt and insuls to engineering... You can see multiplying this by potentially dozens of prisoners, on shifts where it's a rush against team antags, and you begin to understand why they just throw the damn toolbelt on and be done with it.

As far as just some guy hacking into a harmless location and getting arrested by sec for it... I think confiscating the toolbelt is overkill, although it does have precedent in spacelaw (the precedent also says you shouldn't use it for yourself). I'd feel better about taking the toolbelt from some guy who tried to break into cap's quarters with it rather than technical storage.

[oranges]

lotta admins browsing this forum

[Rohen_Tahir]

Just because you benefitted from looking an item doesn't make it "by the book" lol

I would also totally steal it but I'm not going to pretend I'm not being at least slightly crooked for doing it.

The server is the god damned wild west, you dumb shit fucking moron. You act like everyone isn't fucking devouring each other. You're acting like non-antags aren't kidnapping and ruining other non-antags rounds. You're acting like security isn't constantly dying because their guns are absolute shit and a man with a toolbox and a sprayer full of lube dooesn't regularly kill sec. Bullshit.

As it stands now, antags are allowed to prance around doing whatever the fuck demented, sick shit they feel like, yet security has to toe the line and be the 'good guy' while getting fucking murdered in the process. Fuck that. Fuck that right in the god damned eyes and squish 'em into a paste, that's garbage. That's a sack of shit.

t.as a great man once said

Why are your roleplaying as your in-game character on the goddamn forums?

[Agux909]

Abstinence syndrome.

[Fishimun]

Why are you roleplaying as your in-game character on the goddamn forums?

Hello Mr. Alex_Tahir.

[wesoda25]

Good officers don’t keep loot for themselves. You’re less of a liability to the crew + rest of security if you aren’t a walking pinata. Plus using traitor gear as sec makes you cringe

[sinfulbliss]

Just because you benefitted from looking an item doesn't make it "by the book" lol

I would also totally steal it but I'm not going to pretend I'm not being at least slightly crooked for doing it.

The server is the god damned wild west, you dumb shit fucking moron. You act like everyone isn't fucking devouring each other. You're acting like non-antags aren't kidnapping and ruining other non-antags rounds. You're acting like security isn't constantly dying because their guns are absolute shit and a man with a toolbox and a sprayer full of lube dooesn't regularly kill sec. Bullshit.

As it stands now, antags are allowed to prance around doing whatever the fuck demented, sick shit they feel like, yet security has to toe the line and be the 'good guy' while getting fucking murdered in the process. Fuck that. Fuck that right in the god damned eyes and squish 'em into a paste, that's garbage. That's a sack of shit.

t.as a great man once said

Why are your roleplaying as your in-game character on the goddamn forums?

I'm not roleplaying you uncultured swine, this is clearly a segment from the shotgun pasta. I even hyperlinked it so dentheads like you could get the reference... But to no avail.

[sinfulbliss]

Good officers don’t keep loot for themselves. You’re less of a liability to the crew + rest of security if you aren’t a walking pinata. Plus using traitor gear as sec makes you cringe

Ehh, big disagree. Sec officers dying are the biggest loot pinatas around already simply because of the secbelt, disabler, batons and ID. The way I see it, if you can minimize your odds of becoming a loot pinata at all, you probably should.

[MooCow12]

So if security are allowed to be shit (which they shouldn't be because then it relies on the robustness of the victims for there to be any sort of comeuppance) then it should be specified somewhere in the rules that getting revenge on them is acceptable and up to what point it's okay.

This is something i kind of wanted for lrp sec, less admin involvement so they can make more mistakes but can be dealt with in IC when they make those mistakes.

I also think its security's job to be shitsec on low threat/(core system) rounds so we can atleast have some conflict.


But then we have to worry about new players getting shitsecced. I mean we still do, it does happen. But if it was encouraged to even the slightest degree it would be so much worse.

[sinfulbliss]

So if security are allowed to be shit (which they shouldn't be because then it relies on the robustness of the victims for there to be any sort of comeuppance) then it should be specified somewhere in the rules that getting revenge on them is acceptable and up to what point it's okay.

This is something i kind of wanted for lrp sec, less admin involvement so they can make more mistakes but can be dealt with in IC when they make those mistakes.

I also think its security's job to be shitsec on low threat/(core system) rounds so we can atleast have some conflict.


But then we have to worry about new players getting shitsecced. I mean we still do, it does happen. But if it was encouraged to even the slightest degree it would be so much worse.

I agree. Biggest problem for sec is just being bored on shifts that have lame friendly antags (ban friendly antaggers from antag) with nothing else to do and no tiders to spice things up. It's just walking around maint aimlessly until you either get murdered or catch someone bad.

And no you can't really be "certain" those rounds are greenshifts most of the time, so you can't just stop being sec out of boredom.
I love tider-sec conflicts even when I get merk'd as a result of them, they make things fun when they would otherwise be SSD-worthy. I've played a lot of MRP servers with virtually no tide-sec conflict culture (Fulp and now Bee), and people cryo all the time and just leave their screens out of sheer boredom. I get some roles absolutely love that, like the autism roles that want 2 hours to make their final setup, but for roles like sec and assistant it's kind of just boring and unfun.

If someone genuinly expresses they don't want to be a part of your RDM then you must leave them alone, otherwise, you can fight all you want sec vs tider and have fun with normal, valid escalation rules.

[IkeTG]

if sinfulbliss is proving anything it's that sec players should be stuffed in lockers more often

[Rageguy505]

i hate sec officers that use whatever gamer loot they find, i try and stop that from happening as a hos.

[terranaut]

gamer gear is the power up you break out of the evidence locker when shit really hits the fan