"NO NO NO!! DONT QUESTION ME!!!!"

[Bigmaneatchip555]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30953

Is this seriously how coding gen will be from now on

[Bigmaneatchip555]

wait shit i just got told this goes in playersclub
how do move a thread

[Bawhoppennn]

@PKP

[Super Aggro Crag]

its goofball, he deserves any suffering he receives

[Qbmax32]

mso is the host he can do what he wants

[Super Aggro Crag]

yeah our other hosts we got rid of by complaining they he was varediting himself to greytide, calling him a eurosperg and threatening to split the codebase, and accusing him of sexual harassment

since MSO doesnt do anything but smoke weed he is invulnerable

[TheFinalPotato]

Roh left. I hate this timeline

[Timberpoes]

Roh left. I hate this timeline

MSO placed that ban after Roh left. Although as per oranges: "post hoc a ban was placed that mso agrees is incorrect".

[Edit]ROH IS NOW FREE! Despite that, I can't see an unban in the audit logs.

It's don't think it's healthy for the host to use their power to win arguments in that way. Ultimately though, MSO's house and MSO's rules so that's the end of the discussion and oranges has handled it.

But on a personal level as a contributor to the codebase it makes me sad to see that approach employed. I thought we were making good progress to mending those rifts between the team and MSO, rather than rending new ones.

I hope this is just a minor stumbling block on the path towards our common goal of making tg the best place it can be.

[Super Aggro Crag]

yes i want tg to be kickass too

timber i'm sorry i cussed at you earlier

[Timberpoes]

yes i want tg to be kickass too

timber i'm sorry i cussed at you earlier

You're alright, Crag. No hard feelings!

Not the first negative feedback I've gotten and I very much doubt it will be the last.

[Super Aggro Crag]

yes i want tg to be kickass too

timber i'm sorry i cussed at you earlier

You're alright, Crag. No hard feelings!

Not the first negative feedback I've gotten and I very much doubt it will be the last.

yes you will get more

[iamgoofball]

Roh left. I hate this timeline

MSO placed that ban after Roh left. Although as per oranges: "post hoc a ban was placed that mso agrees is incorrect".

Despite that, I can't see an unban in the audit logs.

It's don't think it's healthy for the host to use their power to win arguments in that way. Ultimately though, MSO's house and MSO's rules so that's the end of the discussion and oranges has handled it.

But on a personal level as a contributor to the codebase it makes me sad to see that approach employed. I thought we were making good progress to mending those rifts between the team and MSO, rather than rending new ones.

I hope this is just a minor stumbling block on the path towards our common goal of making tg the best place it can be.

im far angrier about the rohesie ban but that's not my battle to fight so i'm not doing so

[Bawhoppennn]

I think MSO went a little bit too far with this one. It would've behooved him as host to take a step back, walk away for a little bit, and then come back to the conversation with a fresher perspective. Of course it's not irredeemable, but a little bit of bad form is all.
We all gotta be able to be critiqued once in awhile, yknow?

[Super Aggro Crag]

except me critiquing me is against the rules

[Shadowflame909]

I like alternative methods of healing with drawbacks too like hooch

Too bad how this all went down though. I didn't know maintainers felt so strongly about assistants being an actual role. (Maybe it should be locked to new players only then?)

Also I made a meme

[Archie700]

Honestly, any maintainer could have pulled the trigger, don't know why it had to be assigned to Rohesie

[Timberpoes]

I think MSO went a little bit too far with this one. It would've behooved him as host to take a step back, walk away for a little bit, and then come back to the conversation with a fresher perspective. Of course it's not irredeemable, but a little bit of bad form is all.
We all gotta be able to be critiqued once in awhile, yknow?

I think MSO should be mindful that his immunity to any recourse burdens him with a greater responsibility to use his powers only when absolutely necessary and with far more caution, care and consideration.

Such are the burderns of responsibility that comes with a position of active leadership.

[Vekter]

Both of them suck at communicating.

MSO did a really poor job of explaining to Goof what was going on. A simple reply of "I want to keep it because we might use it for something different in the future" would have probably fixed things, but he his this weird fixation on ideological victories and likely thought that would be tantamount to losing, whatever that matters. I am definitely glad he apologized about the Rohesie thing though, that was completely unwarranted.

Goof takes pretty much everything personally and overreacts a lot because he has no internal filter. He has no clue when to shut up. So when he saw MSO revert his PR, instead of waiting patiently and asking for context over why his seventeen line long PR was being reverted, he lost his mind and started screaming about it.

That being said, MSO probably shouldn't be reverting things directly given the optics behind it - it makes it look like he's hard rejecting the concept based on him being host instead of just doing maintainer stuff.

[MrStonedOne]

MSO did a really poor job of explaining to Goof what was going on. A simple reply of "I want to keep it because we might use it for something different in the future"

You just suck at reading comprehension if you still think the convo was about that.

[Vekter]

MSO did a really poor job of explaining to Goof what was going on. A simple reply of "I want to keep it because we might use it for something different in the future"

You just suck at reading comprehension if you still think the convo was about that.

You're not wrong, the convo was definitely about what you and Rohesie were talking about, but the situation could've possibly been defused. Then again, with how Goof was freaking out, I'm not sure that'd be enough.

It's a lot easier to just go "This is why, can we discuss it in the PR instead" than it is to let things snowball like that.

[Archie700]

MSO did a really poor job of explaining to Goof what was going on. A simple reply of "I want to keep it because we might use it for something different in the future"

You just suck at reading comprehension if you still think the convo was about that.

You're not wrong, the convo was definitely about what you and Rohesie were talking about, but the situation could've possibly been defused. Then again, with how Goof was freaking out, I'm not sure that'd be enough.

It's a lot easier to just go "This is why, can we discuss it in the PR instead" than it is to let things snowball like that.

I don't exactly think talking in the PR would be a good idea, due to clutter in the PR unlike Discord's real-time messaging, but yeah, this really should have been settled through DMs instead.
The main problem was that MSO was trying to clarify with Rohesie on the issue, but kept getting interrupted by everyone else.

[Timonk]

Holy shit
Fikou made it into a goof ban appeal

[Rohen_Tahir]

Host awakening moment.

[massa]

I thought we were making good progress to mending those rifts between the team and MSO, rather than rending new ones.

you guys are driving an absolutely massive rift between the 'team' and the players who experience the team's 'vision'. You guys go out of your way to not consider that (basically exclusively important perspective) and have, for years, made a joke out of it that most people just find sad.

Sorry you guys managed to cop a bit of mostly superficial ire that has mostly blown over for it? MSO got the experience players get every time they see a bullshit PR or have to read a take from someone who doesn't play the game.

[Mothblocks]

I'm not ignoring players I'm literally hosting a meeting for them this Saturday

[massa]

I'm not ignoring players I'm literally hosting a meeting for them this Saturday

I don't butt heads/attack you because you're cool and do not harbor delusions of grandeur.

[BONERMASTER]

I'm not ignoring players I'm literally hosting a meeting for them this Saturday

I don't butt heads/attack you because you're cool and do not harbor delusions of grandeur.

Debatable.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

[Kendrickorium]

assistants win again

[oranges]

I thought we were making good progress to mending those rifts between the team and MSO, rather than rending new ones.

you guys are driving an absolutely massive rift between the 'team' and the players who experience the team's 'vision'. You guys go out of your way to not consider that (basically exclusively important perspective) and have, for years, made a joke out of it that most people just find sad.

Sorry you guys managed to cop a bit of mostly superficial ire that has mostly blown over for it? MSO got the experience players get every time they see a bullshit PR or have to read a take from someone who doesn't play the game.

you are probably one of the worst, stupidest and most idiotic people I have ever have the displeasure of hosting on this community, the day you leave will improve greatly the quality of every single part of the community on a level almost as good as when jackrip finally fucked off to his LRP server.

and the only wedge i'd like to drive is between your ears

[Armhulen]

you have to be crazy to argue with mso knowing that he has and will interject his host powers to inflict permanent repercussions for disagreeing and then you have to be crazier to make an appeal expecting the same person to not audit himself and find himself free of wrongdoing hahahaha cheers goof

maybe i'm just sour because nobody watches the watchmen when it comes to the host role, which is why it has suddenly become a weak point in /tg/'s immortality if the host one day decides to go berko

[oranges]

you have to be crazy to argue with mso knowing that he has and will interject his host powers to inflict permanent repercussions for disagreeing and then you have to be crazier to make an appeal expecting the same person to not audit himself and find himself free of wrongdoing hahahaha cheers goof

maybe i'm just sour because nobody watches the watchmen when it comes to the host role, which is why it has suddenly become a weak point in /tg/'s immortality if the host one day decides to go berko

what do you mean suddenly, we have been at the whims of a single person for 11 years.

[Armhulen]

true! true. host squabbles have existed as long as i remember and they're always horrible

[oranges]

don't be so fragile, just get on with the job

[MrStonedOne]

you have to be crazy to argue with mso knowing that he has and will interject his host powers to inflict permanent repercussions for disagreeing and then you have to be crazier to make an appeal expecting the same person to not audit himself and find himself free of wrongdoing hahahaha cheers goof

maybe i'm just sour because nobody watches the watchmen when it comes to the host role, which is why it has suddenly become a weak point in /tg/'s immortality if the host one day decides to go berko

You are some how forgetting about the time me and another admin went full caps screaming in #adminbus and as a result of that convo i removed their admin ban that was only placed to force them to have said convo with me after they meteored the station.

You can disagree with me, you just can't argue in a way that frustrates me, and if you are gonna assume my positions and reasonings and motivations you better be fucking right because there is nothing that frustrates me more then being held to somebody's inaccurate caricature of me, especially if it gets in the way of the conversation because their assumptions are causing them to be blinded to the point i'm trying to get across and they keep reverting to attacking irrelevant points i don't care about nor am arguing about.

[Mothblocks]

That first part sounds interesting, what happened, who was it

[Timonk]

Tldr you can argue with him but if you hurt his feelings you get banned

!	Message from: MrStonedOne
	He hurt my feelings by implying my bans were because my feelings got hurt, so i banned him for hurting my feelings to both be ironic but also to show him what that world would look like.

[oranges]

just ask for clarification on every single thing he says until he gets mad at that too and goes back to the original position

[Mothblocks]

just ask for clarification on every single thing he says until he gets mad at that too and goes back to the original position

The art of forum-fu

[Armhulen]

That first part sounds interesting, what happened, who was it

sounds like sawrge and the catgirl debacle of 2018 (2017? hope not)

you have to be crazy to argue with mso knowing that he has and will interject his host powers to inflict permanent repercussions for disagreeing and then you have to be crazier to make an appeal expecting the same person to not audit himself and find himself free of wrongdoing hahahaha cheers goof

maybe i'm just sour because nobody watches the watchmen when it comes to the host role, which is why it has suddenly become a weak point in /tg/'s immortality if the host one day decides to go berko

You are some how forgetting about the time me and another admin went full caps screaming in #adminbus and as a result of that convo i removed their admin ban that was only placed to force them to have said convo with me after they meteored the station.

You can disagree with me, you just can't argue in a way that frustrates me, and if you are gonna assume my positions and reasonings and motivations you better be fucking right because there is nothing that frustrates me more then being held to somebody's inaccurate caricature of me, especially if it gets in the way of the conversation because their assumptions are causing them to be blinded to the point i'm trying to get across and they keep reverting to attacking irrelevant points i don't care about nor am arguing about.

It's a careful precipice to peer over, because it's really easy to get worked up in an argument, especially if the argument is caused by something that annoys one party. We can't trust our admins to rule over issues they're directly involved in, Maintainers aren't trusted to merge their own prs, and so on. There's something here to be said about the psychological safety you must grant the other party in an argument but I'm not too knowledgeable at that so I'll leave it at a watchmen problem. Not you, the role. You've done far better than every other host and the rest of the tg hierarchy of roles makes for a really hard server to collapse from drama (of which it easily would under a weaker system in the past) but host as a role just begs for hanging hammers over people's heads. It's always the easiest way.

[Mothblocks]

sounds like sawrge and the catgirl debacle of 2018 (2017? hope not)

I thought they got deadminned for that tho, maybe I'm just misremembering the stories

[iamgoofball]

That first part sounds interesting, what happened, who was it

catgirls were disabled for approximately 1 (one) day and so an admin decided to meteor the station in protest

[iamgoofball]

you have to be crazier to make an appeal expecting the same person to not audit himself and find himself free of wrongdoing

it's always worth making an appeal

[Armhulen]

That first part sounds interesting, what happened, who was it

catgirls were disabled for approximately 1 (one) day and so an admin decided to meteor the station in protest

Fun fact I instantly aged 300 years upon waking up and seeing someone disabled felinids whlie I was sleeping as a headmin and then I learned no other headmin did it

[massa]

you are probably one of the worst, stupidest and most idiotic people I have ever have the displeasure of hosting on this community, the day you leave will improve greatly the quality of every single part of the community on a level almost as good as when jackrip finally fucked off to his LRP server.

and the only wedge i'd like to drive is between your ears

c*ders when you tell them to play the game they're balancing and making content for (gone wrong)

[oranges]

players club

[Vekter]

I thought we were making good progress to mending those rifts between the team and MSO, rather than rending new ones.

you guys are driving an absolutely massive rift between the 'team' and the players who experience the team's 'vision'. You guys go out of your way to not consider that (basically exclusively important perspective) and have, for years, made a joke out of it that most people just find sad.

Sorry you guys managed to cop a bit of mostly superficial ire that has mostly blown over for it? MSO got the experience players get every time they see a bullshit PR or have to read a take from someone who doesn't play the game.

That is a lot of words to say "I don't like the code changes and I'm going to make that everyone else's problem".

[Bawhoppennn]

That first part sounds interesting, what happened, who was it

catgirls were disabled for approximately 1 (one) day and so an admin decided to meteor the station in protest

I still haven't fully processed it. It was one of the biggest shitshows of the time. And the fact it was actually Sawrge who did it is so baffling to me, even in hindsight.

[oranges]

I managed to convince swarge that i had disabled catgirls and that it was a unilateral decision as well, he bought it hook line and sinker

[wesoda25]

Was oranges bait rarer back then or what, I feel as if nowadays people might know better.

[Armhulen]

Was oranges bait rarer back then or what, I feel as if nowadays people might know better.

oranges has only gotten better over time, take that as you will