What is shitsec? How can one actually help the station as sec?

[XII3912]

Sec are one of those departments that are always hated on by the crew and tbh I dont think they can really help out the station in any meaningful way or can they?

So can sec be a useful department to the station? All I ever see is hard-core robust validhunters, cringe book followers who think they're useful or just clueless newbies.
Soo what does a "good seccie" look like?

[Farquaar]

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Shitcurity

If you want to be appreciated as a security officer, focus on antags and people actually causing trouble. Tiders will cuss you out when you brig them no matter what, so just ignore them. Doing the smallest bit of investigatory diligence before you stun and brig someone will help you avoid brigging innocent people 99% of the time.

You *can* be an obstructive security officer to create IC conflict (i.e. arresting the botanist for drug dealing, which is technically allowed under space law iirc), but there's a fine line between being an funny obstacle and an annoying bully.

Also, watch the radio. I can't speak for others, but most of the times people have murdered me and got away with it were because security and command didn't bother reading the radio chat so they never saw my "help John Doe is killing me in the library" message. Read the radio chat and you'll already be a cut above the rest.

[Turbonerd]

A good security officer's main goal is to give crew a sense of security and peace on station. A good security officer would resolve and de-escalate conflict between crew if the conflict escalates to unsafe levels. They should try to maintain station integrity, and reduce criminal activity that interferes with crew.

If crew feels safe doing their job and interacting around the station, without significant interference going on, then security is probably doing their job right.

[XII3912]

I mainly made this thread because I kinda feel like sec are a department that can't add anything positive to the game and thus I wanna know if they actually can

Most usefulness I see is the extremely rare and occasional robust HoS main wiping out the antags (that 10min rev round defeat is a example)

[Farquaar]

I mainly made this thread because I kinda feel like sec are a department that can't add anything positive to the game and thus I wanna know if they actually can

I was going to say that the security is the department best equipped to deal with antags, but after the removal of stun tasers I'm not sure if that's really true anymore. I guess you can bum validhunting gear off of science and medbay and become Judge Dredd, or just become proficient with your starting arsenal (which is still pretty robust, all things considered)

[Kendrickorium]

I mainly made this thread because I kinda feel like sec are a department that can't add anything positive to the game

chances are 105% that you are a shitter?

[XII3912]

I mainly made this thread because I kinda feel like sec are a department that can't add anything positive to the game

chances are 105% that you are a shitter?

150% actually you miscalculated (and nobody has stopped me before)

[Pandarsenic]

Three simple rules:

1. Actually investigate stuff. Don't just take everyone to the brig and call it a day and don't just base everything on the first or last person to type.
2. Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.
3. Focus on roleplay over Winning Against Antagonists. Does your character care more about protecting corporate property? Keeping people safe? Punching the clock and going home? Playing with the cool pew pew guns? How do you break up fights between two people who both have reasonable justifications for getting into it? What are your attitudes toward different traitors vs. changelings, antags who murder vs. antags who steal, etc.

[Lacran]

Security operates as a filter for bad or destructive ingame behaviour, a good sec officer knows how to filter and what to filter.

A good sec player is someone that first and foremost separates themselves from their character. There are signs any experienced player will notice if someone is an antag, or what type of antags are on the station. A good sec player doesn't seek to shut down antagonist behaviour but to instead react to it, don't circle the paramedic grabbing plasteel because they might be a cultist, let the round play out a bit and give people the space they need to impact the round in some meaningful way.

There's a really wide gap between rules and regulations that are good, and ones that are really shitty. A clown stealing iron from somewhere to make statues of a banana isn't a big deal, someone making ghetto chemistry in the commissary and selling weed and space drugs is far from a priority to deal with, these people are doing creative things others may enjoy or find funny, enable that playstyle.

Working with, teaching and including the other people in your department is also a really important part of being a good sec player, a good sec player leads by example and has a positive impact on the department.

[BONERMASTER]

As long as people are involved, there is always a place for security. There will always be a dickhead, some kind of departmental dispute, chronic greytiding, etc. where you can step in and mediate (or apply copious amounts of violence, completely legal!! ).

It is simply human nature that there will inevitably be some kind of friction involved when dealing with ourselves. I found myself spending the majority of my security time just handling and talking to people, often non-antags that would behave more destructive than the actual antagonists of the round.

Certainly not to be underestimated! I remember having been picked for nuke ops, back before dynamic so there was no other antag present. We took a bit longer, hashing out the ultimate plan. But upon arriving, the station was in pieces: massive holes in the central hallway, dead AI, the engine delaminated and everybody was in a state of despair. For all the planning and scheming we did, ultimately we just had to pick up the disk from the ground, and end their misery.

So yes, security is helpful to the station, because even a small series of unresolved conflicts, petty even, can lead to devestating and catastrophic consequences.
And the more competent you are, the more likely it is you will resolve these conflicts and prevent the station from completely ripping itself apart.
And I think that's a decent contribution to make.


With secure regards
-BONERMASTER

[chocolate_bickie]

Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

A man after my own heart.

[stewydeadmike]

honestly any sec officer I see who doesn't just run around acting like they're playing TTT or something is already in the upper percentile of good security players imo.

More specifically though I like seeing security officers who at least try and take some time to build rapport with the crew they're supposedly protecting. That and finding creative solutions to resolve and mediate conflicts is always preferable to just putting people into a time-out box.

[sinfulbliss]

Okay I have a bit of a hot take here after over 1000hrs as LRP security ((IF YOU PLAY MRP STOP READING HERE YOU WILL DISAGREE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT APPLY TO MRP SEC)):

Mediating petty conflicts and squabbles between nonantags is not only useless but almost guaranteed to make the rounds worse for one or both people involved than better. Of course if you see a shitter bothering people the only appropriate response is to flush them down disposals or give them a short gulag timer to get them to go away.

A fight between two people in the halls - how do you even "mediate" that? First you have to stop the fight because using words will not stop them from killing each other. Let's assume you manage to stun and restrain both of them, and somehow get both of them back to the brig to try to sort it out. What will now happen is both of them will scream about how the other is in the wrong, and how they were attacked first. All while screaming why you are a dumbass denthead for intervening. You will pick a side that you believe, based on who is more convincing (viz.: who is the better liar), and the other will be punished.

OR you let them both free, instructed to stay away from each other, at which point once you are out of sight their conflict will continue and they will begin murdering each other again. It is for this reason I believe "mediation" is impossible unless there is a very clear aggressor/shitter to punish. If someone is valid for escalation to someone else, why would you get involved? Maybe they deserve it. Maybe they spent the previous 10 minutes ruining their round! And if they don't deserve it? It's invalid escalation and the player can ahelp! Catch-22.

There is absolutely nothing worse than getting beaten to crit, your items looted, then after daring to attack the other person for their actions, getting arrested and gulagged for 500 points by the security team for assault.

Sec is there to try to keep the station functional and oppose the threats that are trying to turn it upside down. The best rounds are when those threats make an equal or greater force than sec can handle, so that the station is chaotic enough to make things interesting but not so chaotic that the shuttle has to be called.

[Deirun]

One important thing that was not mentioned here before is that you should keep Asimov in mind.
Remember that asimov silicons HAVE to stop human harm, they do not have a choice in that matter.
You can make things a lot easier for yourself, the rest of security, and all silicons by keeping a few things in mind:

1. If you want to execute a human, do NOT say so on comms. AIs have to monitor comms because they have to follow Law 2, they will likely notice it. If you want a human executed keep it off comms or use coded language, "transferring" or "re-educating" tends to work fine.
2. If you execute a human do it in an area without cameras. Maps nowadays have "transferring" or "re-educating" rooms, use those or maintenance.
3. In a revolution/nuke ops/cult situation you often want to upload a law that declares your enemies non-human. Do NOT suggest doing so over the radio. Talk to the Captain/RD in private instead.
4. Remember that you can lie to silicons. While most silicon players will probably know that you are lying, many will just accept your lies if they are believable/funny enough. This will obviously not work if they just saw you beating a human to death so you still have to be somewhat careful.

[iamgoofball]

arrest every single greytider you come across

throw them all in the gulag

[XII3912]

One important thing that was not mentioned here before is that you should keep Asimov in mind.

Most of the time asimov borgs and ais that attempt to protect human antags (by rescuing them) are just trying to free the antag (or ensure they are healed) because they want them to wreak havoc I can say for certain that is usually why the local dsworder that just got critted is rescued. They say "but law 1 law 2" but behind the screen they're most likely thinking "haha I will let them reign terror upon the station again and aid a antag without administrative action"

I get its their laws but seriously why not just pretend you didn't see the dsword wielding traitor get their head chopped off? Clearly that's the better option right? But yeah this is one of the reasons I hate silicons

[BlevRuz]

To be a secman is to know, breathe, inhale crime; to feel its sickly aroma on the station wind, to follow that stench where it leads you; and if its source is an undented cranium, to adorn it with its due embossing.
The stationsfolk will protest your ways; the broken redshirt will fight them, but remember that though your batong is your most useful weapon, it is not your only one.
Through skilled used of complex socially significant finger-wagging rites one may channel the rabble's wrath into a force more potent than any hybrid taser; though remain wary of the fickle tide, and never give more than you can take away.
Audience participation may not be high brow, but the crowd never seems to tire.

Also try to make shit funny so people at least dont get TOO mad when you steal their toys and tie them up in your conspicuously-stained locker.

[Deirun]

One important thing that was not mentioned here before is that you should keep Asimov in mind.

Most of the time asimov borgs and ais that attempt to protect human antags (by rescuing them) are just trying to free the antag because they want them to wreak havoc I can say for certain that is usually why the local dsworder that just got critted is rescued. They say "but law 1 law 2" but behind the screen they're most likely thinking "haha I will let them reign terror upon the station again and aid a antag without administrative action"

I mentioned this in my post already, but Asimov silicons do not have a choice in that matter: They HAVE to protect humans from being harmed, antag status does not matter when it comes to Law 1 at all.

[Misdoubtful]

There are plenty of little reasons that people can point to but...

Maybe it stems from the same big thing: Not wanting to minimize conflict, or even trying to maximize it.

[XII3912]

I mentioned this in my post already, but Asimov silicons do not have a choice in that matter:

I am aware that antag status doesn't mean anything to default asimov, however while it is their responsibility it in the end is just the better option to not assist dangerous antags in any perceivable way (even if they're being murdered). While you cannot kill them if they're human it is still fair to intentionally turn a blind eye and not save a antag human or not. You aren't likely to have anyone come after you for it either

[Capsandi]

Don't listen to sinful I have 2000 lrp hours as assistant(bigger number) and nothing else.
First priority is preventing greytiding. What coders dont want admins to know is the game is balanced around greytiding as a pass time for security. If security ignores tiders then they will always cause conflictless greenshifts(unless its cult but fuck cult seriously)
If someone is on common yelling about tiders breaking into their department, your job is to gulag every single one for a minimum of 900 points. They wont kill themselves if you make it clear they will be joined by their fellow tiders.
At this point you have tiders going on the offensive against security. Do not kill them. Gulag them for a minimum of 1250 points. If you are dealing with advanced tiders they may have found one of several ways of breaking out of the gulag. In this event, you send a security team to cargo with some sort of explosive. Bomb the mining shuttles to prevent tiders from getting back to the station.
Here's a reminder that non assistant tiding is to be punished double. I don't care if its a paramedic in the pharmacy, nor if its the ai letting them in. If they wanted to get in lawfully then the HOP or captain should have updated their access. Job slots are not for tiders.
If you never got a radio message that tiders are breaking into departments, that means those morons down at medical tried to defend themselves and are probably already composing an ahelp. Patrol popular tiding areas(including cargo bay, arrest anyone who walked in through the orm windoor, leave those who are waiting for ordered goodies) do NOT patrol maintenance. Maintenance isn't within your purview and any radio messages indicating that bad shit is going on in those tunnels is a hallucination. Make sure to weld maintenance entrances shut to prevent breaches from spreading through them. Engineering will thank you. Speaking of engineering; in the event of prolonged power failure, sm delamination or widespread fire alarms, the CE is to be permad and engineers(for sm explosions/power issues)/atmostechs(in the case of fire alarms) are to be gulaged(750 pts) for dereliction of duty.
If you arrest a tider and the tider ahelps you accuse the admin of metaganging with the tider and assume they play a catgirl. Then segway into a tasteful metaphor in which you explain how security needs to prevent tiding lest they kill all antags and cause a green shift. If you can goad the admin into evoking Godwin's law within 12 pms you have already won the ahelp, otherwise do your best to prevent getting a note. If you get a note you may aswell just ask to be perma banned. DO NOT take ahelp advice from Bonermaster, his only goal is to get you banned in the most spectacularly stupid ways possible because he feeds on peanuts.
If you come across 2 dimwits fighting each other to the death, stun them both. If one of them is an assistant, arrest them, otherwise arrest anyone involved who is outside of their department, if they had their shit stolen they should have called sec.
If at some point one of your monkey ai coworkers was unrobust enough to resort to capital punishment, loudly inform the ai they are being demoted. If you actually demote them the situation should be fine but if you dont the ai can and will bolt down sec. You can whine in ahelps but thats cringe and you will lose antag token. Its also a good idea to eject any nonhumans from security roundstart if theres a borg because the borg will always take the side of criminals(as they should). It is also your job as a security player to shit test ais which you suspect to be valid hunting. Loudly kill inmates and if the ai does not bolt all of sec you are to report them in the ban requests subforum, remember to use the proper format!
If at any point you see someone with a stun baton(stun prods are fine). Perma them(unless they're sec ofc). Stun batons are not to be held by non officers. If at any point you find someone with a gun, check their id access for a weapon permit. If it isn't there take the gun and tell them to get one from the warden. Give the gun to the warden. If you try taking the barman's gun you will die to monkey pox(pun pun is a monkey).
If you've done everything correctly, a prog tot might have barely enough rep to buy an esword(given they did a minimum of 6 objectives). Now if you decide to 'valid hunt' traitors they will pose some sort of threat, hopefully.

[Capsandi]

wtf how did so many posts crop up while I wrote my short and succinct guide to lrp security?

[Deirun]

I mentioned this in my post already, but Asimov silicons do not have a choice in that matter:

I am aware that antag status doesn't mean anything to default asimov, however while it is their responsibility it in the end is just the better option to not assist dangerous antags in any perceivable way (even if they're being murdered). While you cannot kill them if they're human it is still fair to intentionally turn a blind eye and not save a antag human or not. You aren't likely to have anyone come after you for it either

Not trying to rescuing humans while you know they are being harmed is just a blatant violation of Law 1. I already stated this in my first post here: If you want to kill a human, do it somewhere where silicons will not notice you doing it. This is where decent silicons actually do turn a blind eye. (As long as you actually make an effort to hide what you are doing)

[KniraTwo]

I mentioned this in my post already, but Asimov silicons do not have a choice in that matter:

I am aware that antag status doesn't mean anything to default asimov, however while it is their responsibility it in the end is just the better option to not assist dangerous antags in any perceivable way (even if they're being murdered). While you cannot kill them if they're human it is still fair to intentionally turn a blind eye and not save a antag human or not. You aren't likely to have anyone come after you for it either

its their responsibility to react to the current harm that's taking place in their sight you nutsack and if you get caught doing that kind of shit you'll be slapped for it hard. (unless its education chamber then i don't give a shit really)

[BlevRuz]

*masterwork of literature*

Edifying read. A less morally bankrupt admin team would etch it into the irises of all sec players.

[sinfulbliss]

If you've done everything correctly, a prog tot might have barely enough rep to buy an esword(given they did a minimum of 6 objectives). Now if you decide to 'valid hunt' traitors they will pose some sort of threat, hopefully.

I cut this down for you. This is true.
(Also gulag has a max of 1000 pts)

[XII3912]

its their responsibility to react to the current harm that's taking place in their sight

The least you metal fucks can do is not free the antag so that they can go wreak havoc again EVEN IF THEY WERE HARMED - its a dick move

[XII3912]

Don't listen to sinful I have 2000 lrp hours as assistant(bigger number) and nothing else.
First priority is preventing greytiding. What coders dont want admins to know is the game is balanced around greytiding as a pass time for security. If security ignores tiders then they will always cause conflictless greenshifts(unless its cult but fuck cult seriously)
If someone is on common yelling about tiders breaking into their department, your job is to gulag every single one for a minimum of 900 points. They wont kill themselves if you make it clear they will be joined by their fellow tiders.
At this point you have tiders going on the offensive against security. Do not kill them. Gulag them for a minimum of 1250 points. If you are dealing with advanced tiders they may have found one of several ways of breaking out of the gulag. In this event, you send a security team to cargo with some sort of explosive. Bomb the mining shuttles to prevent tiders from getting back to the station.
Here's a reminder that non assistant tiding is to be punished double. I don't care if its a paramedic in the pharmacy, nor if its the ai letting them in. If they wanted to get in lawfully then the HOP or captain should have updated their access. Job slots are not for tiders.
If you never got a radio message that tiders are breaking into departments, that means those morons down at medical tried to defend themselves and are probably already composing an ahelp. Patrol popular tiding areas(including cargo bay, arrest anyone who walked in through the orm windoor, leave those who are waiting for ordered goodies) do NOT patrol maintenance. Maintenance isn't within your purview and any radio messages indicating that bad shit is going on in those tunnels is a hallucination. Make sure to weld maintenance entrances shut to prevent breaches from spreading through them. Engineering will thank you. Speaking of engineering; in the event of prolonged power failure, sm delamination or widespread fire alarms, the CE is to be permad and engineers(for sm explosions/power issues)/atmostechs(in the case of fire alarms) are to be gulaged(750 pts) for dereliction of duty.
If you arrest a tider and the tider ahelps you accuse the admin of metaganging with the tider and assume they play a catgirl. Then segway into a tasteful metaphor in which you explain how security needs to prevent tiding lest they kill all antags and cause a green shift. If you can goad the admin into evoking Godwin's law within 12 pms you have already won the ahelp, otherwise do your best to prevent getting a note. If you get a note you may aswell just ask to be perma banned. DO NOT take ahelp advice from Bonermaster, his only goal is to get you banned in the most spectacularly stupid ways possible because he feeds on peanuts.
If you come across 2 dimwits fighting each other to the death, stun them both. If one of them is an assistant, arrest them, otherwise arrest anyone involved who is outside of their department, if they had their shit stolen they should have called sec.
If at some point one of your monkey ai coworkers was unrobust enough to resort to capital punishment, loudly inform the ai they are being demoted. If you actually demote them the situation should be fine but if you dont the ai can and will bolt down sec. You can whine in ahelps but thats cringe and you will lose antag token. Its also a good idea to eject any nonhumans from security roundstart if theres a borg because the borg will always take the side of criminals(as they should). It is also your job as a security player to shit test ais which you suspect to be valid hunting. Loudly kill inmates and if the ai does not bolt all of sec you are to report them in the ban requests subforum, remember to use the proper format!
If at any point you see someone with a stun baton(stun prods are fine). Perma them(unless they're sec ofc). Stun batons are not to be held by non officers. If at any point you find someone with a gun, check their id access for a weapon permit. If it isn't there take the gun and tell them to get one from the warden. Give the gun to the warden. If you try taking the barman's gun you will die to monkey pox(pun pun is a monkey).
If you've done everything correctly, a prog tot might have barely enough rep to buy an esword(given they did a minimum of 6 objectives). Now if you decide to 'valid hunt' traitors they will pose some sort of threat, hopefully.

My friend this is how you find yourself getting beaten and or sometimes killed by lynching (if players are fed up with you enough they may not care for your metaprotect and kill you) this playstyle isn't welcome on lrp e.g. arresting a paramedic for going into pharmacy and then saying "GO TO HOPLINE NERD" is just making you no better then a tider and if you do that enough times I would maybe see you getting rule 1'd

This is also the kind of shit that makes me say "is sec really needed?" You ain't helping anybody by arresting the assistant that entered cargo for a multi tool you're just being a bandit in red.

Reading this further I think I just took one of the smartest bait posts that I've seen here.

[Kendrickorium]

Three simple rules:

1. Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

shhhhh they will catch on to us

[Scriptis]

Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

There is nothing more satisfying in this world than arresting a greyshirt stealing half of the station, getting cursed out by them all the way to the brig, giving them a 1000-point gulag sentence for being a pain in everyone's ass, and watching them go catatonic because they can't be arsed to spend ten minutes mining.

[Boot]

Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

There is nothing more satisfying in this world than arresting a greyshirt stealing half of the station, getting cursed out by them all the way to the brig, giving them a 1000-point gulag sentence for being a pain in everyone's ass, and watching them go catatonic because they can't be arsed to spend ten minutes mining.

Wait a minute didn't you help me out like a week ago because the gulag shuttle was bugged to not accept any ore with the stacking machine or something.

[BONERMASTER]

Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

There is nothing more satisfying in this world than arresting a greyshirt stealing half of the station, getting cursed out by them all the way to the brig, giving them a 1000-point gulag sentence for being a pain in everyone's ass, and watching them go catatonic because they can't be arsed to spend ten minutes mining.

Wait a minute didn't you help me out like a week ago because the gulag shuttle was bugged to not accept any ore with the stacking machine or something.

... What do you mean "bugged"?


With machiavellian regards
-BONERMASTER

[Pandarsenic]

Three simple rules:

1. Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

shhhhh they will catch on to us

What are they gonna do about it if they do? Actually do the mining?

[Kendrickorium]

Three simple rules:

1. Give gulag sentences to the grey tide, never cell timers. Watch them ghost rather than be useful for a single minute.

shhhhh they will catch on to us

What are they gonna do about it if they do? Actually do the mining?

i gulag them for barely any points

makes it even funnier when they ghost

[Shadowflame909]

Keep it proportional to the crime

If you catch me as a traitor bugging a room. Beheading me, Debraining me, and then throwing my brain in a deep fryer actively makes the round worse.

Its a code issue but you dont have to make it worse

[Timonk]

>smash random shit on station
>Jail for 3 minutes
Fucking shitsec i can't believe i have to deal with this shit
>Proceed to spend rest of shift annoying the shit out of sec

In the mind of assistant players.
Alternatively, jump straight to step 3 then step 2.5

[chocolate_bickie]

I like how a thread on how not to be shitcurity has devolved into gulag posting.

Legit though just don't jump to round removal for every crime.

[Timonk]

Says the robotics main

[chocolate_bickie]

Says the robotics main

It's not round removal if you borg them.

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

[XII3912]

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

This can end badly like if the ai gets a law change and there is nothing specific that says you can't do something something plasmaflood or kill people then they most certainly will.

[Archie700]

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

This can end badly like if the ai gets a law change and there is nothing specific that says you can't do something something plasmaflood or kill people then they most certainly will.

If you are evil/stupid enough to free an AI like that when you have borged traitors then you probably deserve it.

Borgs are also slaved to the AI so if the AI tells them not to kill or get people killed they have to listen no matter what unless it is explicitly stated in their laws.

[Pandarsenic]

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

Unfortunately, because per current policy antag-brain silicons keep antag status but can't be distinguished from other silicons by any means, this is an extremely bad idea.

All the things they're normally not allowed to do, like randomly murder lizards, make infinite disposal traps, or RCD people into 1x1 rooms? Antag borgs are all allowed to do that as long as it doesn't violate their laws

And wouldn't you know it, infinite disposal loops aren't harmful!

(In fact, getting borged voluntarily and proactively before you've antagonized to instead be a griefsilicon is a pretty fun alternative to progtraitor. Just remember to follow those laws to the letter. But I digress.)

[san7890]

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

Unfortunately, because per current policy antag-brain silicons keep antag status but can't be distinguished from other silicons by any means, this is an extremely bad idea.

All the things they're normally not allowed to do, like randomly murder lizards, make infinite disposal traps, or RCD people into 1x1 rooms? Antag borgs are all allowed to do that as long as it doesn't violate their laws

And wouldn't you know it, infinite disposal loops aren't harmful!

(In fact, getting borged voluntarily and proactively to be a griefsilicon is a pretty fun alternative to progtraitor. Just remember to follow those laws to the letter. But I digress.)

borg law two go into a closet in maintenance and never exit (until you note something that might be harmful to a human)

[Timonk]

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

This can end badly like if the ai gets a law change and there is nothing specific that says you can't do something something plasmaflood or kill people then they most certainly will.

Purged traitor Borgs can antag

[XII3912]

Conclusion: don't borg antags it's too risky give their brain to the chef it'd serve better use in the hands of the chef.

[Pandarsenic]

Unironically, if you don't want to risk getting clapped, it's way safer to eat their brain and just so happen by pure coincidence to activate a positronic brain right after. It's significantly safer even if it's kind of fucky and kills cool RP opportunities.

I would probably still Borg antags who seem cool, but Joe Shitter gets to be lunch.

[Shadowflame909]

We have a lot of underused tools sec never seem to use, but work perfectly for antags.

Lethal implants with a chem tracker, so if they hear joe schmoe is murderboning. A button press and their heart stops.

Electropacks, Shoe Cuffs. Now that the gateway works again, you can toss them in it and shadow realm them with a exile implant.

The brainwashing machine!

A lot of options!

[Timberpoes]

Actually, one way not to be shitsec is instead of deepfrying an antags brain, borg them.

Unfortunately, because per current policy antag-brain silicons keep antag status but can't be distinguished from other silicons by any means, this is an extremely bad idea.

All the things they're normally not allowed to do, like randomly murder lizards, make infinite disposal traps, or RCD people into 1x1 rooms? Antag borgs are all allowed to do that as long as it doesn't violate their laws

And wouldn't you know it, infinite disposal loops aren't harmful!

(In fact, getting borged voluntarily and proactively before you've antagonized to instead be a griefsilicon is a pretty fun alternative to progtraitor. Just remember to follow those laws to the letter. But I digress.)

I dont think that it's unfortunate. I think that puts a lot of focus on min-maxing towards a competitive win condition. The optimal solution is to destroy the brain, because that brings you closer to competitively winning.

But I actually think that goal is the antithesis of SS13. I think the game is at its best if you're not playing optimally and you get your fun from the setting, story and narrative of shifts over mechanical wins like RRing antags. To me, sec borging antags (that are also on baord with the idea) is super cool from a storytelling perspective and opens up a lot more room for SS13 stories to happen than playing optimally and doing the meta thing.

I think that's a major difference with SS13 now. It's no longer new. It's not as niche as we'd like to pretend it is. It's all very highly documented, some players have years of experience playing and define the meta for everyone else, and the codebase is open and accessible now as it has ever been.

The average SS13 player today is more skilled and more knowledgable about SS13, with more immediate access to information about jobs and roles, than the average SS13 player of 10 or even 5 years ago. All that knowledge has built up into optimal ways to play the game. Hell, some admins will even bwoink players for playing non-optimally as against the rules, where once this was just an SS13 moment.

And that's what I think the raw essence of shitsec is. Optimally played sec, that goes through the game with a min-max approach of clearing their job content so they can call the shuttle and go to the next shift. No interactions. They don't contribute anything interesting. Too attached to their own personal win conditions to make the shift fun and/or enjoyable in the spirit of SS13. Approaching the game from a competitive rather than storytelling perspective. Sec that restricts the sandbox when played and forces everyone to either min-max too or perish.

I think the best way sec can contribute to a shift is by pacing themselves and dealing with antags in such as way that they are force-multiplying to maximise the chances of fun, interesting and above all else truly memorable SS13 moments. In my eyes nobody remembers that shift that sec steamrolled all antags and the shuttle was called at 45min. Everyone remembers some shift where an antag runs wild with a plan, idea or cool gimmick and truly impacts the shift in a meaningful way, and they had to fight to survive as they watched the station burn or explode around them.

[Pandarsenic]

Counterpoint: if I'm the AI or another Borg and you give us an antag-Borg, and they proceed to antag Borg it up and get us locked down for 10 minutes or ioned or whatever, I hate you

[Zybwivcz]

But I actually think that goal is the antithesis of SS13. I think the game is at its best if you're not playing optimally and you get your fun from the setting, story and narrative of shifts over mechanical wins like RRing antags. To me, sec borging antags (that are also on baord with the idea) is super cool from a storytelling perspective and opens up a lot more room for SS13 stories to happen than playing optimally and doing the meta thing.

That's funny I've been told how much worse it is to borg a suspected antag than to merely kill them.

And that's what I think the raw essence of shitsec is. Optimally played sec, that goes through the game with a min-max approach of clearing their job content so they can call the shuttle and go to the next shift. No interactions. They don't contribute anything interesting.

If SEC is the only department where being too effective at what your job's basic role is gets you bwoinked there should really be a warning somewhere on the wiki about it. I don't remember the warnings to engineers against getting up a rock solid high energy SM too fast, or chemists who have got plumbing setups pumping out synthflesh patches in five minutes.

I think the best way sec can contribute to a shift is by pacing themselves and dealing with antags in such as way that they are force-multiplying to maximise the chances of fun, interesting and above all else truly memorable SS13 moments. In my eyes nobody remembers that shift that sec steamrolled all antags and the shuttle was called at 45min. Everyone remembers some shift where an antag runs wild with a plan, idea or cool gimmick and truly impacts the shift in a meaningful way, and they had to fight to survive as they watched the station burn or explode around them.

The "I remember this cool non-kill-everyone antag gimmick" is outnumbered about fifty to one by the "I remember this time a murderboner with AA/noslips/powerfist/subverted silicons slaughtered 90% of the station and then kept recalling the shuttle". Maybe things are different over there on Manuel. I wouldn't know.