not having a phd in atmos is griefing peanut

[Scriptis]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32204

mate i'm not gonna lie to you, nobody knows how atmos works and you shouldn't blame a silicon for trying to scrub hot tritium out of a room. it's not malicious

[Qbmax32]

most mentally well atmos player

[mindstormy]

If you do not want an AI to try and help a situation just cut the cams and wires. Also I'm pretty sure most AI's only know about the contaminated and siphon buttons on air alarms.

[san7890]

The way I decided to tackle dealing with issues of people messing up my projects would be to breathe in, remember that it's a round-based game and I can try again next time, and then breathe out.

I would no-life toxins for weeks at a time and this is how I kept sane whenever someone screwed me up somehow. It held true for robotics as well. Although then, the major obstruction was other scientists screwing up a task you entrust to them, the miners not mining, etc. People make mistakes, and it's important to realize that everything within a round is very transient compared to what a great amount of rage will do to your soul.

[Lacran]

If it's such a continuous issue I don't understand why they wouldn't discuss this with the A.I before the tritium leak.

[CPTANT]

People really like to abuse rule 1 as a reason to ban anyone they don't like don't they.

The player got genuine IC conflict due to a misunderstanding but decided that this ruins his entire day.

[Pandarsenic]

In the spirit of viewtopic.php?f=83&t=32199 I think if you leak tritium everywhere and the AI cleans up your tritium and you threaten to make an admincomplaint about the AI not being banned for cleaning up your tritium leak and you actually make the admincomplaint you should be permabanned on the spot

[NoxVS]

Should I use code like 'I strongly disagree with your admin decision' or 'Your decision warrants further scrutiny' next time I have a problem with an admin?

I just can't get over this "Your decision warrants further scrutiny"

One of my favorite things to come out of an admin complaint recently

[Farquaar]

He should have played a human if he wanted to bomb his own department. AIs can handle crisis situations according to their laws without being bossed around by lizards.

[Archie700]

Edit 2: I would like to assert that the AI has absolutely no say in what the atmospheric composition in Atmospherics proper is. We can literally do whatever the fuck we want in there, including flooding it with plasma, n2o, and spacing it completely, and we're not supposed to be messed with by the AI for it since it's not going to affect crew that isn't even supposed to be there.

MOONLIGHTING IS NOT OK

[TheSmallBlue]

Let me get this straight:

* Guy blows up his own tritium tanks
* AI probably saw it, begins trying to fix it to the best of their ability
* Guy tells AI to stop, for all they know the guy fucking did it on purpose so AI ignores them
* Guy ahelps and says "hey bwoink them" admin responds "they didn't break any rule and I don't like your tone" and closes the ticket
* Guy ahelps again JUST TO SAY "you better do it or I'll complain!"

This guy sucks!

[HommandoSA]

Lizard man has huffed too much tritium.

[Drag]

Any player that threatens me with an admin complaint is eating a day ban, we don't play those games in my fucking house.

Edit: This was in fact a very poor attempt at a joke

[NoxVS]

Any player that threatens me with an admin complaint is eating a day ban, we don't play those games in my fucking house.

The secret is to not take it as a threat. 99% of the time there's nothing actionable, so call their bluff. They threaten you with an admin complaint, you respond with a link to the complaints board and instructions on how to fill it out. It's also great for shutting down arguments because you can just say "my decision is final, here's where you can go if you think it was wrong of me".

[san7890]

-snip-
The secret is to not take it as a threat. 99% of the time there's nothing actionable, so call their bluff. They threaten you with an admin complaint, you respond with a link to the complaints board and instructions on how to fill it out. It's also great for shutting down arguments because you can just say "my decision is final, here's where you can go if you think it was wrong of me".

+1

[Archie700]

Any player that threatens me with an admin complaint is eating a day ban, we don't play those games in my fucking house.

Don't do that. They'll use it as ammunition.

[Kendrickorium]

i swear timbers end of thread posts are fucking great

[dirk_mcblade]

To be honest all good silicon players should be engineer/atmos mains first though.

[technokek]

If you do not want an AI to try and help a situation just cut the cams and wires. Also I'm pretty sure most AI's only know about the contaminated and siphon buttons on air alarms.

Please do not encourage AI access sabotage for no reason. Cutting cams or ai access wires without a VERY GOOD REASON (ai keeps fucking with you/it's CONFIRMED subverted or malf). Just cutting cables because you don't want the ai interaction with your workplace preemptively is against the rules. This does not apply to a antags.

[Pandarsenic]

Can't wait to see an atmotech robusted because they cut cameras and made a bunch of tritium, which sounds suspiciously like exactly what an antag who wants to flood pure tritium would do

[toemas]

lol btfo

[KniraTwo]

I feel bad for any admin who has to deal with this person.

[Shadowflame909]

>told not to ahelp about their tritium setup being flushed down the drain and instead disable ai access to scrubbers

>Told not to do that until ai drains their tritium setup down the drain or causes lethal havoc

Atmos was a mistake even for the 5 people out of hundreds who know how to do it

[Muffindrake]

>told not to ahelp about their tritium setup being flushed down the drain and instead disable ai access to scrubbers

>Told not to do that until ai drains their tritium setup down the drain or causes lethal havoc

Atmos was a mistake even for the 5 people out of hundreds who know how to do it

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32211

This but unironically.

[CPTANT]

>told not to ahelp about their tritium setup being flushed down the drain and instead disable ai access to scrubbers

>Told not to do that until ai drains their tritium setup down the drain or causes lethal havoc

Atmos was a mistake even for the 5 people out of hundreds who know how to do it

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32211

This but unironically.

This is pure gold, I mean salt.

[Pandarsenic]

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

Rule 2 Precedents
4. Atmos techs are not allowed to edit atmos at roundstart so that the AI cannot use it for malicious purposes. While this might not make sense IC, it's a necessary OOC precedent for some game mechanics to work. Atmos techs are allowed if they have any reasonable suspicion of the AI being rogue.

What FatalX1 tried to communicate to you is that if the AI is doing something to actively interfere with you and they don't stop when asked, it is reasonable and proportionate to cut cameras and AI wires so you can continue in peace. But you can't pre-emptively cut cams and wires just because you have an entire tree lodged up your ass about people interfering with your pet projects.

What Nameless is trying to communicate to you is that if the admin team feels you're cutting wires and cameras for no reason, or for a reason so poor that it's basically the same as no reason, they'll may step in.

Your behaviour is virtually indistinguishable from cutting wires and cameras "just in case the AI is malf/subverted". For gameplay and game mechanic reasons, this is generally prohibited.

We have problem then, because the atmos grief happens even without any antagonist being involved. I could repeat what I said about past rounds with people overriding air alarm settings just because, but I'm not going to. We have no recourse, we can only use the 'suicide verb' and go to the 60 minute waiting room for the next round, because atmos setups are nuanced and are broken so badly by bad settings that you might as well do that. I've had it happen too many times, and nothing visible has ever been done against that.

Also, what the fuck do you mean 'pet projects'? I am providing clothes spaceproofing for the entire crew, upgrading medbay healing with Healium, and providing Cleansing crystals to them. Even a singular disruption in the form of an ignorant AI player doing aforementioned is enough to ensure nothing of the sort gets to the crew, that would require you to play the game to notice, though.

Further edit: The rules do not say that we can't edit atmos at all, and they do not state every possible malicious purpose must be left open. Since I never edit atmos pipes in a manner that prevents station gas floods, which is the main purpose of atmos for malf AI anyway, I ask you kindly to remove the note then, since I've not broken rules here.

Have you considered talking to the AI

While some players don't use this mechanic much, if you put :e or ; at the beginning of a "say," you can use your headset to communicate with the AI on a departmental or common radio to explain your project to them instead of just yelling DEAN BAD when someone shows up to kill you

[Muffindrake]

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

Rule 2 Precedents
4. Atmos techs are not allowed to edit atmos at roundstart so that the AI cannot use it for malicious purposes. While this might not make sense IC, it's a necessary OOC precedent for some game mechanics to work. Atmos techs are allowed if they have any reasonable suspicion of the AI being rogue.

What FatalX1 tried to communicate to you is that if the AI is doing something to actively interfere with you and they don't stop when asked, it is reasonable and proportionate to cut cameras and AI wires so you can continue in peace. But you can't pre-emptively cut cams and wires just because you have an entire tree lodged up your ass about people interfering with your pet projects.

What Nameless is trying to communicate to you is that if the admin team feels you're cutting wires and cameras for no reason, or for a reason so poor that it's basically the same as no reason, they'll may step in.

Your behaviour is virtually indistinguishable from cutting wires and cameras "just in case the AI is malf/subverted". For gameplay and game mechanic reasons, this is generally prohibited.

We have problem then, because the atmos grief happens even without any antagonist being involved. I could repeat what I said about past rounds with people overriding air alarm settings just because, but I'm not going to. We have no recourse, we can only use the 'suicide verb' and go to the 60 minute waiting room for the next round, because atmos setups are nuanced and are broken so badly by bad settings that you might as well do that. I've had it happen too many times, and nothing visible has ever been done against that.

Also, what the fuck do you mean 'pet projects'? I am providing clothes spaceproofing for the entire crew, upgrading medbay healing with Healium, and providing Cleansing crystals to them. Even a singular disruption in the form of an ignorant AI player doing aforementioned is enough to ensure nothing of the sort gets to the crew, that would require you to play the game to notice, though.

Further edit: The rules do not say that we can't edit atmos at all, and they do not state every possible malicious purpose must be left open. Since I never edit atmos pipes in a manner that prevents station gas floods, which is the main purpose of atmos for malf AI anyway, I ask you kindly to remove the note then, since I've not broken rules here.

Have you considered talking to the AI

While some players don't use this mechanic much, if you put :e or ; at the beginning of a "say," you can use your headset to communicate with the AI on a departmental or common radio to explain your project to them instead of just yelling DEAN BAD when someone shows up to kill you

Funny you should ask. I talked to the AI in the same round. I was trying really hard to lead them through looking at the air alarm and telling me why it would be a bad idea to just hit DECON there. However, they went the boneheaded route of 'can't be arsed lol' and completely ignored me. So you can't tell me I didn't try.

[Lacran]

Have you tried developing basic social skills so you don't sound fucking manic when you talk about atmos

[Muffindrake]

Have you tried developing basic social skills so you don't sound fucking manic when you talk about atmos

You shouldn't mistake sardonic tone towards players that deserve nothing better as a deficit. I've been arguing with admins about this for too long.

I'd try and contribute changes to the code base that make accidental mistakes like this harder, but then I'd need to get the changes past people who don't even play the game, and judging from my success with admins so far, I am not holding my breath.

[Lacran]

Okay, imagine I'm an A.I. it's round start and you want to make sure I don't interfere with your work. What do you say to me to build an understanding?

[Muffindrake]

Okay, imagine I'm an A.I. it's round start and you want to make sure I don't interfere with your work. What do you say to me to build an understanding?

I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.

Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.

[HommandoSA]

A "fuck off" is warranted if you're asking the AI if you can remove its ability to interact with the air alarms.

[Lacran]

Okay, imagine I'm an A.I. it's round start and you want to make sure I don't interfere with your work. What do you say to me to build an understanding?

I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.

Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.

That's not building an understanding, that's just you asking if you can remove their ability to intervene. Have you made an attempt to sit down an A.I and explain what your setup will look like and how they can intervene should things go wrong? What attempts do you make to CO-OPERATE with the A.I whom you share a department with

[Farquaar]

I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.

Just don't play a lizard lmao

[BONERMASTER]

I encountered this "dilemma" myself as an HOP, and I convened with the admins on this:

You do have a degree of autonomy in your department, you can do whatever projects you want in atmos, AS LONG AS it remains safe to enter for other crewmembers.
Failing that, there is no admin backing you from the chain of command / AI intervening to restore safety, which may include demoting you.
You don't own the department, you just work there. And no matter if you have seven PHDs in atmospherics, if your entire department is set ablaze and it starts burning holes into the station hull, it is perfectly valid for the AI / whoever to intervene to stop the fire to the best of their abilities.

Besides, not checking the air alarm sounds like a skill issue to me.


With WARM regards
-BONERMASTER

[Deirun]

Okay, imagine I'm an A.I. it's round start and you want to make sure I don't interfere with your work. What do you say to me to build an understanding?

I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.

Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.

You somehow forgot to mention that the first thing I told you was that I could not see how cutting that wire would prevent accidents. You IMMEDIATELY resorted to threats (Which you also forgot, huffed too much BZ maybe?). I only told you to fuck off after that.

[dirk_mcblade]

Lizards deserve to be told to fuck off by the AI. The AI is literally bigoted.

[Timberpoes]

I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.

Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.

You somehow forgot to mention that the first thing I told you was that I could not see how cutting that wire would prevent accidents. You IMMEDIATELY resorted to threats (Which you also forgot, huffed too much BZ maybe?). I only told you to fuck off after that.

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 4/game.txt
Did the conversation go something like this?:

Code: Select all

05:25:37    SAY    Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "AI, may I cut AI access to the air alarm in Atmospherics to prevent accidents?"    (61, 143, 2)    Greater Port Maintenance
05:26:04    SAY    Deirun/(Golem) "I have no idea who me having access to that air alarm would cause accidents."    (214, 144, 2)    AI Chamber
05:26:19    SAY    Deirun/(Golem) "How, even."    (214, 144, 2)    AI Chamber
05:27:25    SAY    Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "On the off-chance that you do cause an accident, do I have your permission to throw you at the supermatter or blow up your satellite?"    (77, 114, 2)    Port Maintenance
05:28:15    SAY    Deirun/(Golem) "No you have not. I would be very careful with making threats, cosindering that you are not a human."    (214, 144, 2)    AI Chamber
05:29:35    SAY    Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "Then for your own sake, do not touch the Atmospherics air alarm"    (169, 117, 2)    Atmospherics

[Lacran]

How can you be this autistic. You just have to establish a basic fucking rapport with the A.I like you would for any other co-worker in atmos, it's not rocket science.

Be polite and wait until they are free to explain the gist of the setup, how it will help the crew and how they can interfere in a way that doesn't fuck you over if things go wrong. It's what you do whenever you share any workplace with someone.

[Deirun]

I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.

Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.

You somehow forgot to mention that the first thing I told you was that I could not see how cutting that wire would prevent accidents. You IMMEDIATELY resorted to threats (Which you also forgot, huffed too much BZ maybe?). I only told you to fuck off after that.

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 4/game.txt
Did the conversation go something like this?:

Code: Select all

05:25:37    SAY    Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "AI, may I cut AI access to the air alarm in Atmospherics to prevent accidents?"    (61, 143, 2)    Greater Port Maintenance
05:26:04    SAY    Deirun/(Golem) "I have no idea who me having access to that air alarm would cause accidents."    (214, 144, 2)    AI Chamber
05:26:19    SAY    Deirun/(Golem) "How, even."    (214, 144, 2)    AI Chamber
05:27:25    SAY    Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "On the off-chance that you do cause an accident, do I have your permission to throw you at the supermatter or blow up your satellite?"    (77, 114, 2)    Port Maintenance
05:28:15    SAY    Deirun/(Golem) "No you have not. I would be very careful with making threats, cosindering that you are not a human."    (214, 144, 2)    AI Chamber
05:29:35    SAY    Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "Then for your own sake, do not touch the Atmospherics air alarm"    (169, 117, 2)    Atmospherics

You missed my last reply to them:

Code: Select all

[2022-08-06 17:29:51.278] SAY: Deirun/(Golem) "I will touch it as much as I want to, lizard." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))

I never actually touched it. Not that I could have done so anyways, considering they walled off the sightline my camera had to it.
To be fair to them here: I think they build some sort of chamber for their atmos needs and blocked the sightline accidentally.

How can you be this autistic. You just have to establish a basic fucking rapport with the A.I like you would for any other co-worker in atmos, it's not rocket science.

Be polite and wait until they are free to explain the gist of the setup, how it will help the crew and how they can interfere in a way that doesn't fuck you over if things go wrong. It's what you do whenever you share any workplace with someone.

If they had done that, I would have had absolutely no problem with cooperating. I follow most requests non-humans make, as long as they ask nicely.

[Timberpoes]

I never actually touched it. Not that I could have done so anyways, considering they walled off the sightline my camera had to it.

That is galaxy brain.

> "The admin team won't let me cut AI cams for no reason"
> Builds walls instead of block camera line of sight

[Disappointedpoes Edit: To be fair to Muffindrake:

I think they build some sort of chamber for their atmos needs and blocked the sightline accidentally.

was added since then so no conspiracy dipshittery for me. Sssad!]

[Deirun]

Edited my post, I do not think they actually blocked it on purpose.

[Timberpoes]

Oh, that's way more boring. Damn. Can I stick with the original conspiracy?

[Archie700]

I would have gone with "Excuse me, is this code for "Please kill me horribly in a secluded room somewhere and make sure that I am never revived.", lizard?"

[sinfulbliss]

What a baby

[cybersaber101]

Atmos techs man, can't trust em.

[Armhulen]

Lizards deserve to be told to fuck off by the AI. The AI is literally bigoted.

That's what I'm saying. As soon as a non-human atmos tech is leaking tritium, the silicons can take care of it any which way they see fit and the most the non-human should feel is lucky that the tritium didn't hurt anyone which would move this from "oh great, cleaning up after this guy" into "oh great, turning this guy into red paste"

Edit 2: I would like to assert that the AI has absolutely no say in what the atmospheric composition in Atmospherics proper is. We can literally do whatever the fuck we want in there, including flooding it with plasma, n2o, and spacing it completely, and we're not supposed to be messed with by the AI for it since it's not going to affect crew that isn't even supposed to be there.

MOONLIGHTING IS NOT OK

► Show Spoiler

ATMOS IS A RESTRICTED AREA

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Good grief. Someone mark this as a social skill issue.

And that's coming from me of all people.