When It's Time To Take A Break From Spacemen, Admin Complaint edition

[Kendrickorium]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32691

[trexter555]

most reasonable manuel player

[ChristopherRobin]

Seems like the admin got an ahelp, investigated it, found nothing significant, and then told the person who was ahelped against something along the lines of "Hey, someone ahelped you for doing a bad, but there's no real evidence of the bad; be sure not to do the bad and have a great day!" Isn't this how like every ahelp goes when there's no evidence of anything?
This is like Cool Mc Cop saying "Hey kids, don't do drugs." and taking offence to that because it implies you might be thinking about doing drugs.

[Cobby]

me, starting to read: ny-ok.

me, seeing the scroll bar:

can I get the spark notes of what exactly warrants the amount of text per post

[Rohen_Tahir]

FgomDkOXoAMgZrM.jpeg (10.82 KiB) Viewed 5155 times

[Cobby]

FgomDkOXoAMgZrM.jpeg

damn i read the thread because of this

[Misdoubtful]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32691

Words to live by, thanks coach!

[Archie700]

This is literally someone trying to talk their way out of preventing harm as an Asimov borg

[JusticeGoat]

i can't keep from chuckling over how absurd it is to make a complaint over a ahelp that didn't result in a note or anything.

[SkeletalElite]

me, starting to read: ny-ok.

me, seeing the scroll bar:

can I get the spark notes of what exactly warrants the amount of text per post

tl;dr

clown is in med and cmo is kicking them out and accidentally harm batons the person 1 time in front of the borg and the borg doesn't do anything about it.

Then the borg (allegedly) leaves to go look for tools for the CMO to upgrade them with during which time the CMO gets into the fight with the same dude again and beats the fuck out of him.
The borg then (allegedly) returns after the fight is over and the clown is already in crit and heals him. Then the detective comes and cuffs/searches the clown.

The admin verbally warned (no note) the borg about preventing harm.

[toemas]

I think that if your willing to write this much text over something like this then your a loser and need to touch grass ASAP

[Shellton(Mario)]

It is annoying when an admin pms you and you need to stop what you are doing to response only for it to be a nothing burger and the admin to be like "Well you didnt but anything wrong by the rules per say but still don't do that." But writing a fucking harry potter book about it is fucking pointless.

[TheSmallBlue]

I- I don't think it's that much text, jeesh

[KLOWNPLEASEWORK]

I- I don't think it's that much text, jeesh

my dude this is literally a whole ass book

[Pandarsenic]

I ain't readin that.png

[TheFinalPotato]

you're really out here arguing about some guy saying "in future"
you gotta like, get into weightlifting or something man your skin is the thickness of cheesecloth

[Shadowflame909]

I don't think this non incident needed all of this.

[Archie700]

I- I don't think it's that much text, jeesh

why did you even argue about someone wagging your finger at you
what is the point of all this

[sinfulbliss]

Holy shit it’s so lame to see 10 people regurgitate the same point over and over. Wahh it’s long wahh why do you care so much.

Here’s the point of their grievance. Because, objectively speaking, they shouldn’t have been warned. This is quite common in some ahelps. The admin bwoinks you, you explain your side of things, and after being satisfied in your explanation, instead of saying, “that’s checks out, cheers,” the admin will say something like, “alright, just in the future be sure not to do X Y Z.” If you did nothing wrong this shouldn’t really be said.

The reason it can possibly be “more than just annoying” is that this is often how notes get added. Needing to keep something in mind for the future - like not doing X Y Z - is exactly the type of thing notes are used for.

[Archie700]

do we really have to argue over whether "someone telling you to not ignore human harm" is complaint-worthy

[Kendrickorium]

Holy shit it’s so lame to see 10 people regurgitate the same point over and over. Wahh it’s long wahh why do you care so much.

Here’s the point of their grievance. Because, objectively speaking, they shouldn’t have been warned. This is quite common in some ahelps. The admin bwoinks you, you explain your side of things, and after being satisfied in your explanation, instead of saying, “that’s checks out, cheers,” the admin will say something like, “alright, just in the future be sure not to do X Y Z.” If you did nothing wrong this shouldn’t really be said.

The reason it can possibly be “more than just annoying” is that this is often how notes get added. Needing to keep something in mind for the future - like not doing X Y Z - is exactly the type of thing notes are used for.

this is a great thread, I'm very proud of it.

[TheSmallBlue]

why did you even argue about someone wagging your finger at you
what is the point of all this

It's two things I have an issue with.
1.
At first I thought they warned me because I didn't do anything in a situation for which I wasn't even there to see, which warrants a complaint I'm sure you'd agree, but then it turns out they warned me because the CMO accidentally harm-batoned the clown once and I didn't do anything about it. Which is, like, fucking stupid right? What precedent does this state? "As a cyborg you have to be an annoying dick screaming Human Harm at even the slightest hint of even the most clear accidental harm". I don't wanna be forced to be an annoying dick when I play sillicon, so I complain.

2.
There's this culture within admins that I've noticed in which if you get bwoinked for breaking a rule, then you explain that you did not, in fact, break that rule or did anything wrong at all, you still get the whole "In The Future" spill when it's not deserved at all.
sinfulbliss explained it best:

This is quite common in some ahelps. The admin bwoinks you, you explain your side of things, and after being satisfied in your explanation, instead of saying, “that’s checks out, cheers,” the admin will say something like, “alright, just in the future be sure not to do X Y Z.” If you did nothing wrong this shouldn’t really be said.

The reason it can possibly be “more than just annoying” is that this is often how notes get added. Needing to keep something in mind for the future - like not doing X Y Z - is exactly the type of thing notes are used for.

So yeah that's it

[TheSmallBlue]

Here's the ticket for anyone curious, I've made it public on banbus too. No idea why banbus isn't mentioned anywhere in the FNR pinned posts.

From Ticket #18 during round 193562 on Manuel
Ticket opened at 2022-11-02 05:30:28 by harricross
Log:
05:30:28: Ticket Opened by-harricross: Hey there, what happened between you and the clown while they asked you to let them go after being beat somewhat half to death by the CMO and Mime?
05:32:31: Reply from-smallblue: I don't remember that at all? I did remember the CMO beating the mime for breaking in but they never got HARMFUL, only knocked them down with their baton, they always just grabbed them and threw them out. Last I saw the clown has a reactive teleport armor or something like such, and every time the cmo tried knocking em out with their baton they were teleported away. Clown ended up leaving by themselves if I remember correctly.##I don't have the memory of even touching the clown in the first place, even less of them telling me to let them go?
05:32:47: Reply from-smallblue: beating the clown* sorry
05:34:07: Reply from-harricross: It was very early into the shift where they were buckle cuffed to the stasisbed.
05:36:21: Reply from-smallblue: First time I saw the clown in the entire shift was them being past the medical lobby in front of the chemistry door before the cmo brought them down, force grabbed them then threw them out of medical. Next memory I have of them is the teleporter one, as far as I know between those two situations the clown got labor camp'd and came back. I don't think I saw them in between those two events at all
05:36:56: Reply from-harricross: Alright, so you never saw them get physically harmed at all?
05:38:06: Reply from-smallblue: At one point I THINK I saw the clown dead in the medical lobby, but I didn't see the actual way they died, I had gone to medical since the CMO told me he had researched upgrades for me and when I came back clown was dead. Ai asked me about it on binary and I told them that I didn't see anything, cus I hadn't. I'm not sure it was the clown though, I fear I might be misremembering
05:46:35: Reply from-harricross: Okay, a lot was happening at once - so I don't really fault you for not gathering the whole picture. In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence. Other than that, thank you for your detailed response.
05:46:52: Resolved by harricross
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0

[Shellton(Mario)]

05:46:35: Reply from-harricross: Okay, a lot was happening at once - so I don't really fault you for not gathering the whole picture. In the future if you see it happen, please make sure that humans being harmed are taken away from their aggressors instead of keeping them in their presence. Other than that, thank you for your detailed response.

Yeah this is annoying and patronizing. I don't fault admins for doing it but if the player doesn't need a warning then don't give them one.

[Kendrickorium]

HOW TO PLAY ASIMOV BORG AND AI

1. SEE HARM
2. SCREAM "HUMAN HARM"
3. CONTINUE ONTO YOUR BUSINESS AFTER HARM HAS BEEN RESOLVED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

[Timonk]

Ladies and gentlemen i am sad to tell you that I only realized after the second post that this complaint was a waste of time to read

[sinfulbliss]

do we really have to argue over whether "someone telling you to not ignore human harm" is complaint-worthy

There's no such thing as "complaint-worthy," the complaint forum is for players that have an issue with an admin's conduct and want to bring it to their attention.

They took issue with being warned for something they claimed to have never done, and that's understandable. I don't think it was a personal attack though, it was just the admin being unsure as to what happened exactly and playing it safe with a warning. Still, they should have been given the benefit of the doubt, especially since their "ignoring harm" only amounted to watching a single accidental harmbaton (why would CMO switch back to stun mode if they wanted to harm?)

[Archie700]

They were already given the benefit of the doubt.
The final message was essentially "OK there were a lot of things so I'm guessing you didn't actually see that, so I'm letting you off with a reminder that you should at least take them off people who harm if you actually see it."
Not even a note. And I'm very sure no other admin would comb through all the ahelp logs for this the next time they get in trouble.

[Stickymayhem]

you could have written an elaborate backstory for your OC with those ten thousand words but instead you did this

[Qbmax32]

Least unhinged catgirl Manuel player

[sinfulbliss]

The final message was essentially "OK there were a lot of things so I'm guessing you didn't actually see that, so I'm letting you off with a reminder that you should at least take them off people who harm if you actually see it."

If I get reminded of something it implies I needed to be reminded, if I did nothing wrong then why am I being reminded of a rule I didn't break. "In the future please be sure to follow Asimov law 1" doesn't make sense unless you ran afoul of that rule.

It also puts the player in a weird spot. If you say "ok sorry will do" then you're implying you did something wrong. That's probably best for avoiding confrontation but also you might catch a note that way. If you respond trying to explain how you were already acting with [reminder] in mind, you sound like you're being sort of difficult and overly defensive.

[TheSmallBlue]

The final message was essentially "OK there were a lot of things so I'm guessing you didn't actually see that, so I'm letting you off with a reminder that you should at least take them off people who harm if you actually see it."

It wasn't though. It was a warning that I had done something wrong, or at least it came off as one.
"In the future" makes it seem like I wasn't already doing the thing in the past, it's something I need to "fix" in my future rounds. The "other than that" at the end makes it seem that it was the only thing worth noting. If you're gonna put attention on it, then it's clearly not a friendly reminder but a warning to not repeat said thing in the future.

Not even a note. And I'm very sure no other admin would comb through all the ahelp logs for this the next time they get in trouble.

It's still worth complaining about for the possibility of like, it happening again with the same admin and officially getting a note, or it happening with another admin and them being all like "oh this happened before" in admin chat.

Either way the point is simple, it came off as a warning, I didn't deserve a warning. If it was a reminder then it's understandable, thus why headmins ruled that way

[Cobby]

Being wrong (in this case not being attentive enough) but not being malicious is still fair for noting, so in the context of not getting a note, this is a nothingburger.

If you presumably missed harm again then yeah it should be noted down you need to pay attention when youre on the role that needs to be more attentive than the others.

Holy shit it’s so lame to see 10 people regurgitate the same point over and over. Wahh it’s long wahh why do you care so much.

Here’s the point of their grievance. Because, objectively speaking, they shouldn’t have been warned. This is quite common in some ahelps. The admin bwoinks you, you explain your side of things, and after being satisfied in your explanation, instead of saying, “that’s checks out, cheers,” the admin will say something like, “alright, just in the future be sure not to do X Y Z.” If you did nothing wrong this shouldn’t really be said.

The reason it can possibly be “more than just annoying” is that this is often how notes get added. Needing to keep something in mind for the future - like not doing X Y Z - is exactly the type of thing notes are used for.

You allegedly just truncated it down to a few lines, so my grievance is they didnt take the time to shorten it. I only care because I used to have to read it, and understanding situations is how you get better at maneuvering them in the future. It dilutes the point when people have to sift through a bunch of text for something clearly you were able to summarize in a few lines.

[sinfulbliss]

Being wrong (in this case not being attentive enough) but not being malicious is still fair for noting

This is the point at issue though. Hindsight is 20/20, it's very easy to say "maybe you should have predicted the CMO was going to kill the clown since they did, in fact, end up killing the clown." In reality all they had to go off of was... The CMO expressing the intent to non-harmfully stun the clown. Unless you can argue every borg should stalk sec officers while they're making an arrest, there's no good argument they were being inattentive.

[Agux909]

This whole deal doesn't really hold its weight as a complaint buuuuut, at the same time, I can't imagine a better way for it to get attention.

People often fail doing what they intend to do since this is a game, and the majority of us get used to this, dismissing certain actions, voluntarily or not.

Maybe an officer wanted to stun that tider with a baton, but pressed right click instead of left click, "oops". Maybe that lizard paramedic wanted to help that human mime off the ground, but they had combat mode on, so they knocked them down instead, doing some brute damage in the process. Mime (hopefully) isn't going to kill the paramedic because of that punch to their face, they'll most likely understand it was a mistake. A borg passing by isn't going to assume the lizard paramedic needs to be spaced because he dared to harm a human.

If a borg had to immediately assume malice every time a single accidental harmful action is taken against someone, be it accidental or not, and get in the middle even when they aren't needed, that'd become an administrative mess, right?

Borgs have wiggle room for interpreting scenarios and this is something that's been repeated over and over as the intended way to play them. The warning insinuates this isn't the case, and it obviously rubbed the complainant in the wrong way, as they didn't even know at the time why they were being warned. The bwoinking sound is powerful and can put many on edge, use it sparingly.

[Misdoubtful]

I don't get pissed off when the police pull me over due to an active amber alert and then remind me to be careful out there after our interaction but I mean... I guess?

I'd hope we can see or come to see the intentions with this.

[Agux909]

I don't get pissed off when the police pull me over due to an active amber alert and then remind me to be careful out there after our interaction but I mean... I guess?

I'd hope we can see or come to see the intentions with this.

Eh, it'd be more like a cop pulling you over cause he thought you had a dim light, then came close, inspected the light for 10 minutes, and after realizing he was wrong, still warned you and went on a tirade about how wrong is to go around with lights out, with a scolding tone, wasting your time and making you feel bad for no reason.

[Misdoubtful]

I don't get pissed off when the police pull me over due to an active amber alert and then remind me to be careful out there after our interaction but I mean... I guess?

I'd hope we can see or come to see the intentions with this.

Eh, it'd be more like a cop pulling you over cause he thought you had a dim light, then came close, inspected the light for 10 minutes, and after realizing he was wrong, still warned you and went on a tirade about how wrong is to go around with lights out, with a scolding tone, wasting your time and making you feel bad for no reason.

My B I had intended to specify that it was about some of the stuff in this thread since my last post.

[Archie700]

It's more like the cop pulling you over for having no light, finding out your light was just dim, remind you to watch your light and drive away, and then you decide to go to the police station to complain that the cop is somehow bad for pulling you over and gently reminding you.

[Agux909]

No my analogy is better, yours sucks.

[Epicgamer545]

HOW TO PLAY ASIMOV BORG AND AI

1. SEE HARM
2. SCREAM "HUMAN HARM"
3. CONTINUE ONTO YOUR BUSINESS AFTER HARM HAS BEEN RESOLVED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

As a AI main, there is nothing else you can do

[Misdoubtful]

No my analogy is better, yours sucks.

In the end its all a matter of perspective, both can be right.

[Epicgamer545]

No my analogy is better, yours sucks.

In the end its all a matter of perspective, both can be right.

Both can’t be right, just fight to the death.

[Rageguy505]

We need more analogies

[Misdoubtful]

Good idea.

[Rohen_Tahir]

.

[Rohen_Tahir]

In that case it's time for someone to explain in minecraft terms and for someone to explain in TF2 terms and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain in Titanfall terms and for someone to explain in Plumbworld terms and for someone to explain in Don't Starve terms and for someone to explain in Terraria terms and for someone to explain in priate langfuage and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain Dwarf Fortress trms and for someone to explain in SS13 terms and for someone to explain in HoMM3 terms and for someone to explain in Python terms and for someone to explain in Dark Souls II terms and for someone to explain in Dead Cells terms and for someone to explain in legal terms.

[san7890]

In that case it's time for someone to explain in minecraft terms and for someone to explain in TF2 terms and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain in Titanfall terms and for someone to explain in Plumbworld terms and for someone to explain in Don't Starve terms and for someone to explain in Terraria terms and for someone to explain in priate langfuage and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain Dwarf Fortress trms and for someone to explain in SS13 terms and for someone to explain in HoMM3 terms and for someone to explain in Python terms and for someone to explain in Dark Souls II terms and for someone to explain in Dead Cells terms and for someone to explain in legal terms.

can you explain this in basketball terms

[Misdoubtful]

In that case it's time for someone to explain in minecraft terms and for someone to explain in TF2 terms and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain in Titanfall terms and for someone to explain in Plumbworld terms and for someone to explain in Don't Starve terms and for someone to explain in Terraria terms and for someone to explain in priate langfuage and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain Dwarf Fortress trms and for someone to explain in SS13 terms and for someone to explain in HoMM3 terms and for someone to explain in Python terms and for someone to explain in Dark Souls II terms and for someone to explain in Dead Cells terms and for someone to explain in legal terms.

can you explain this in basketball terms

I prefer hockey terms myself.

[Striders13]

In that case it's time for someone to explain in minecraft terms and for someone to explain in TF2 terms and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain in Titanfall terms and for someone to explain in Plumbworld terms and for someone to explain in Don't Starve terms and for someone to explain in Terraria terms and for someone to explain in priate langfuage and for someone to explain in Fortnite terms and for someone to explain Dwarf Fortress trms and for someone to explain in SS13 terms and for someone to explain in HoMM3 terms and for someone to explain in Python terms and for someone to explain in Dark Souls II terms and for someone to explain in Dead Cells terms and for someone to explain in legal terms.

can you explain this in basketball terms

how about you explain it in headmin terms first