Malicious Manuel Metagrudger Macademia

[Farquaar]

Pie throwing is a restricted prank NO MOONLIGHTING.

[Timberpoes]

Please let's not note people for throwing pies. That is as IC issue as SS13 gets and I'd rather set the barrier for metagrudging a little higher than throwing a pie.

[Edit] Also has MRP gone too far when throwing pies at people is now clown job content?

[trexter555]

manuel moment

[Bepis]

[Edit] Also has MRP gone too far when throwing pies at people is now clown job content?

if that's an actual ruling, yes

[Hoxha]

good to know that the next time a clown borg machine guns me with pies i can just instantly get them blacklisted with a single ahelp

[Vekter]

This reeks of "missing context". The note kind of sucks as written but I'm thinking there's something Locus isn't telling us that Sight knows.

[iwishforducks]

“Combative in ahelps.”

“ Reply from-ferrolocus: I can do that”


??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Timberpoes]

[Edit] Also has MRP gone too far when throwing pies at people is now clown job content?

if that's an actual ruling, yes

From the ticket pasted:

01:09:07: Reply from-sightld2: Even then, that kind of minor grief is reserved for clowns. You're not a clown, your an assisstant, going out of your way to get a pie, and again, target the exact same player.
01:09:28: Reply from-sightld2: but for the record. Yes. Three times in days is a pattern.

We're very, very close to it.

[Kendrickorium]

Pie throwing is a restricted prank NO MOONLIGHTING.

now this is how you do a thread title, excellent job

[Agux909]

This is so sad. What has Manuel become?

[datorangebottle]

Bruh.
If occasionally pranking someone is metagrudging, then I have a metagrudge against like half of sybil.

[Farquaar]

Pie throwing is a restricted prank NO MOONLIGHTING.

now this is how you do a thread title, excellent job

Thank you, sir. Always appreciate having my efforts recognized by distinguished forumites.

[datorangebottle]

Please let's not note people for throwing pies. That is as IC issue as SS13 gets and I'd rather set the barrier for metagrudging a little higher than throwing a pie.

[Edit] Also has MRP gone too far when throwing pies at people is now clown job content?

Yes.

[Super Aggro Crag]

man i do worse than this stuff

[RedBaronFlyer]

I'm honestly completely confused as to how this resulted in a note. I don't know if I'm too tired to read this properly but it seems to be a prime example of a IC issue. Surely other players can attest to the fact that you can end up in conflict with the same people over multiple days, especially if they're doing the same stuff over and over again in a way that directly affects your job? (I.e. assistants tiding into cargo every shift when your a cargo tech, for example)

Okay so:

01:09:07: Reply from-sightld2: Even then, that kind of minor grief is reserved for clowns. You're not a clown, your an assisstant, going out of your way to get a pie, and again, target the exact same player.
01:09:28: Reply from-sightld2: but for the record. Yes. Three times in days is a pattern.

Fucking hell, like 90% of the assistant mains should have notes on Manuel then. They constantly get into shift-long grievances with people, ESPECIALLY other assistants.

[blackdav123]

someone ahelped getting hit by a pie

[sinfulbliss]

Admin should be re-trialed or batcaved for this. This is actually god awful even for Manuel. Throwing a pie at someone is not notable, jesus man.

[RedBaronFlyer]

someone ahelped getting hit by a pie

That is probably 100% what happened.

[Bawhoppennn]

I told you guys Manuel rules went off the deep-end

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Does this make me basically Satan for stealing everyone's shoes in game?

► Show Spoiler

It does if you ask Vekter

[Shadowflame909]

mfw everyone on terry and sybil is about to get hit with a fat metagrudge note for misspelling my statics last name in multiple rounds

owen kimple is always on top baby

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I have a generally positive opinion of Sight and consider them a friend.

This is important context to show that I'm not biased when I say that I think this is a fucking awful ticket and it honestly shouldn't have even been a note in the first place.

That group is the very definition of a metagang, to the point where when one of them wallshoves a Detective for saying Cannibalism is Bad Don't Serve Human Flesh, the rest of them will self-antag by interfering with the arrest/joining in in shoving said Detective around.

And now, not only are they like that, but they'll straight up ahelp you for "metagrudging" them for...pie'ing them twice in as many days, with a buncha rounds between them? Fuck me, I could barely get anything noted as a "potentially being metagrudged, keep an eye just to make sure" (on MY own record, so noone'd even see the note if they glanced at theirs) when I had several discord messages of someone expressing a severe dislike of me, and their only interactions with me all being hostile (including trying to have me, as Sec, executed for arresting them, as Captain, for looting the armoury), and these fuckers can get someone a note at ALL ON THEIR RECORD for...throwing two pies?

Sight. If you're reading this. Y'know I like you. Y'know we're cool. You really dropped the ball on this one, and it might be time to re-evaluate how you admin things.

[Bepis]

legitimate wholesome ending though, imo

[KLOWNPLEASEWORK]

Does this make me basically Satan for stealing everyone's shoes in game?

► Show Spoiler

It does if you ask Vekter

nah it just makes people say "huh" when tryna think of what typa guy you are

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Edit: It ain't worth it.

[EmpressMaia]

We need BONERMASTER.

[Agux909]

legitimate wholesome ending though, imo

Is it though? Someone still got noted for pieing another person in this silly 2D game. Think about it.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

This is not a wholesome ending, this is a player accepting a bad outcome because they don't think they'll get anything better without a huge fight.

[Ziiro]

Getting noted for pie throwing is insane. Man what the fuck.

[TheSmallBlue]

I'm disappointed that the guy accepted the amended note, they should've tried to get it removed all together. This is absurd.

[Indie-ana Jones]

This is a really awful note. The whole situation basically summarizes why I don't like Manuel.

[Ziiro]

I don't even think Paradise would go this hard to note a non-clown for throwing a pie. This is some Baystation HRP level shit.

[Epicgamer545]

Manuel thrives on stories and social interactions, including the bad ones. I believe our RP servers aren’t about seriousness and Immersion, it’s about having fun.

[Super Aggro Crag]

mfw everyone on terry and sybil is about to get hit with a fat metagrudge note for misspelling my statics last name in multiple rounds

owen kimple is always on top baby

owen pimple

[kayozz]

Just AHELP before you throw a pie.

[san7890]

-snip-

owen pimple is always on top baby

FTFY

edit: goddammit crag stole the joke

[Epicgamer545]

I’m going to throw a pie at every single person on the station. What are you going to do about it? Ban me?

[CPTANT]

I made a policy thread because I think this shit is ridiculous: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32972

It's maybe more about the general trend of dumb shit like this than the specific incident though.

[Tearling]

I really can't imagine why people make fun of manuel for being a snowflake zone for half-baked roleplay and... oh...

I really can't imagine why people make fun of manuel for having half-baked roleplay.

[CPTANT]

I am honestly starting to see less and less sense in keeping 2 communities that are so fundamentally different in how they want to play the game together. Is there even overlap between Terry/Sybil/Basil players and manuel?

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I am honestly starting to see less and less sense in keeping 2 communities that are so fundamentally different in how they want to play the game together. Is there even overlap between Terry/Sybil/Basil players and manuel?

Most Manuel players oppose this too.

[TheSmallBlue]

I think people throw manuel too much flack for being "too rp" and being "not rp enough" at the same time

manuel is like its own breed of MRP that i haven't seen on any other server. the mrp in mrp may stand for medium anywhere else, but in manuel, the m stands for manuel. manuel truly is manuelrp and i love it i love the rp level of manuel

[BeeSting12]

It's really sad that the player in question accepted the amendment to the note. I think if they had requested a headmin ruling they would've received a more favorable one.

Throwing a pie is not grief. This is why I always took Manuel notes with the tiniest grain of salt when I read a player's history when I was admin. I've seen more bad bans and notes from Manuel than any other server. I personally like goon's definition of grief which someone quoted in the policy thread - if it takes more than a few minutes to clean up then it might be grief. A pie throw takes a second or two to recover from the stun and a minute to go to the bathroom to shower. That is in no way shape or form grief. The IC issue button exists for people who adminhelp pie throwing.

Throwing space drug grenades is somewhat griefy, I will admit. However, unless the player does it on a large scale or every round, then I'd say let it slide on low RP for sure. Seems like he had a somewhat valid escalation reason for it too (calling cops over a harmless prank), so I would've let it slide. I don't understand how the noting admin got from two minor bits of grief to "don't mess with this player again". Sorry sweetie this is a multiplayer game, if you don't want to deal with conflict (the point of the game), then join a private server. Then, literally a day later with rounds in between the player does it again and gets noted for metagrudge?? First - there was no grief, we established this. Second - this was twice over two days.

We should not be catering to players who waste admin time like this and we should not be hiring admins who think a total of two pie throws and a space drugs grenade across two isolated rounds is grief and metagrudge

[Epicgamer545]

It's really sad that the player in question accepted the amendment to the note. I think if they had requested a headmin ruling they would've received a more favorable one.

Throwing a pie is not grief. This is why I always took Manuel notes with the tiniest grain of salt when I read a player's history when I was admin. I've seen more bad bans and notes from Manuel than any other server. I personally like goon's definition of grief which someone quoted in the policy thread - if it takes more than a few minutes to clean up then it might be grief. A pie throw takes a second or two to recover from the stun and a minute to go to the bathroom to shower. That is in no way shape or form grief. The IC issue button exists for people who adminhelp pie throwing.

Throwing space drug grenades is somewhat griefy, I will admit. However, unless the player does it on a large scale or every round, then I'd say let it slide on low RP for sure. Seems like he had a somewhat valid escalation reason for it too (calling cops over a harmless prank), so I would've let it slide. I don't understand how the noting admin got from two minor bits of grief to "don't mess with this player again". Sorry sweetie this is a multiplayer game, if you don't want to deal with conflict (the point of the game), then join a private server. Then, literally a day later with rounds in between the player does it again and gets noted for metagrudge?? First - there was no grief, we established this. Second - this was twice over two days.

We should not be catering to players who waste admin time like this and we should not be hiring admins who think a total of two pie throws and a space drugs grenade across two isolated rounds is grief and metagrudge

I agree with this. I played on Goon when I first played ss13 and it has a way more cleaner aspect of grief than what this codebase has. I feel like it can be adapted here. If I was, somehow, a admin on any codebase, I think this sort of “moral code” would be the best when administrating. People should be messing around and having fun, even on Manuel.

[Archie700]

legitimate wholesome ending though, imo

lol
lmao

[Misdoubtful]

It's really sad that the player in question accepted the amendment to the note. I think if they had requested a headmin ruling they would've received a more favorable one.

Throwing a pie is not grief. This is why I always took Manuel notes with the tiniest grain of salt when I read a player's history when I was admin. I've seen more bad bans and notes from Manuel than any other server. I personally like goon's definition of grief which someone quoted in the policy thread - if it takes more than a few minutes to clean up then it might be grief. A pie throw takes a second or two to recover from the stun and a minute to go to the bathroom to shower. That is in no way shape or form grief. The IC issue button exists for people who adminhelp pie throwing.

Throwing space drug grenades is somewhat griefy, I will admit. However, unless the player does it on a large scale or every round, then I'd say let it slide on low RP for sure. Seems like he had a somewhat valid escalation reason for it too (calling cops over a harmless prank), so I would've let it slide. I don't understand how the noting admin got from two minor bits of grief to "don't mess with this player again". Sorry sweetie this is a multiplayer game, if you don't want to deal with conflict (the point of the game), then join a private server. Then, literally a day later with rounds in between the player does it again and gets noted for metagrudge?? First - there was no grief, we established this. Second - this was twice over two days.

We should not be catering to players who waste admin time like this and we should not be hiring admins who think a total of two pie throws and a space drugs grenade across two isolated rounds is grief and metagrudge

I agree with this. I played on Goon when I first played ss13 and it has a way more cleaner aspect of grief than what this codebase has. I feel like it can be adapted here. If I was, somehow, a admin on any codebase, I think this sort of “moral code” would be the best when administrating. People should be messing around and having fun, even on Manuel.

Bingo chief. You get it. This is why I encourage players, and especially other admins, to experience other servers, their rules, and their culture. So they can stay grounded in the game.

It can be easy to lose touch in a server bubble, and other servers tend to always have something great about them to keep in mind.

Better definitions of grief can be useful for everyone for example.

[Epicgamer545]

The appeal is up again, and there are now new arguments. I’m a bit conflicted because they both give up good points but also now it’s not about throwing a pie is grief, it’s about what to consider actions in a meta grudge situation.

[CPTANT]

He's actually still calling throwing the pie grief. Noting for this sets a horrible precedent, for the player this still means: 2 pies = metagrudging, it is the death of any type of conflict instigation for fear of being bwoinked.

On another tangent, it is a rather unusual situation that ~15 unrelated players hate a group of players so much that they would resort to "meta-grudging" (emphasize on the quotations because once again, someone has to be grief to qualify for that in the first place). Aren't they actually the ones ruining people's fun if so many people dislike them? I don't have enough information to actually judge that though.

[datorangebottle]

But every single round, there are one or multiple instances of this exact kind of minor minor minor grief. From not just one person, but actually a sizeable number. Not a majority of the server by a long shot, but around 15 people do it to you. An unprovoked spray can attack here, a laser pointer there, vile things spoken in Dchat about you. You do not feel welcome. Are you expected as a player to let all of this minor grief slide?

This isn't a symptom of metagrudging, it's a symptom of the ahelper being unlikable. If everyone's dumping on you to the point that you feel unwelcome, maybe consider that you might be part of the problem. I get 'griefed' by random people every single round. Most of it isn't ahelpable because I actually have a spine in my back, broken as it may be. There's a guy that in half the rounds I play and know he's there, I run up to him and suicide with an oxygen tank because it links back to a past trauma for his character and I find that funny. Is that metagrudging?

(if you genuinely think it is you may have serious mental issues. get some help.)

[CMDR_Gungnir]

On another tangent, it is a rather unusual situation that ~15 unrelated players hate a group of players so much that they would resort to "meta-grudging" (emphasize on the quotations because once again, someone has to be grief to qualify for that in the first place). Aren't they actually the ones ruining people's fun if so many people dislike them? I don't have enough information to actually judge that though.

To be fair, it's a commonly said thing by admins that if you see someone else breaking the rules, ahelp it instead of breaking them too, because otherwise then you just have two rulebreaks for them to handle. It's entirely possible they ARE doing something about it, and we just can't see it because we're not in adminbus.