Manuel is not a hugbox Nut

[rasonj]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33318
>Be bad cook mime
>Shove people that complain about your bad cooking
>Saber them when they shove back
>Succumb and ahelp when they retaliate with equal force

If I read that right, the wrong man ate that ban

[Timberpoes]

It was cleared up on appeal in the end, and within 3 hours from appeal to conclusion.

Figuring this shit out is exactly what appeals are for. It's easy to misread or misunderstand things between talking to multiple players and trying to log dive in-shift.

[rasonj]

I actually think it was handled really well, I just didn't see any peanuts to practice my log reading on and tried to make one.

[Timberpoes]

Very wholesome!

[rasonj]

Can I submit an admin complaint for handling it too quickly and denying me my rightful drama thread?

[Timberpoes]

You can certainly try. I'd likely have you put on post restriction for the appeals and complaints subforums if you did it though. They're not for shitposting, unfortunately.

[ekaterina]

I like how vekter "presumes" that the mime used lethals "to try and get you to back of", instead of presuming that the usage of lethals is intended for... you know... lethality.

Engineer seems like he was absolutely in the right here, but this is coming from an LRP point of view - could be different on Manuel, wouldn't know. Vekter's reasoning, however, was clearly messed up. Good thing he sorted it out in the end.

[TheLoLSwat]

they shouldve just kept it to a fistfight and the loser goes to medbay

[conrad]

I'm gonna go on a limb here and suggest that the Mime going for lethals first, losing, succumbing and ahelping could be banbaiting.

I'm probably wrong, but I wouldn't rule that out. I'm pretty sure if the situation was reversed, the CE would be banned.

[Misdoubtful]

Is it once again that time of the month?

Guess so: https://youtu.be/m5Ye_dAge-4

[Super Aggro Crag]

nothing that makes me angrier than Shitcookers Shitting up the kitchen

[iwishforducks]

1.


2.

In the future, let Security handle matters like this.

(trying to work out why the mime was doing this, getting Sec or the HoP involved, trying to get him to cook more palatable food)

why is this considered good roleplay? i dont see any reason for sec or the hop to get involved.


3. i think the mime should've been laughed at for ban baiting. if you're intentionally cooking shitty food then you're creating conflict. and that's good and fun but don't be surprised when you experience CONSEQUENCES

[conrad]

why is this considered good roleplay? i dont see any reason for sec or the hop to get involved.

Sec should handle griefing in Manuel. You shouldn't have to crit griefers.
HoP is the mime's boss.

[iwishforducks]

why is this considered good roleplay? i dont see any reason for sec or the hop to get involved.

Sec should handle griefing in Manuel. You shouldn't have to crit griefers.
HoP is the mime's boss.

light griefing such as making awful food is funny but you should always accept the consequences

if you have a problem with someone making awful food then you should make it a personal conflict. it's much more fun rather than vainly sending the cops after their ass (but that can be funny sometimes too)- same deal with calling in the HoP

i think maia might be a numbnuts for starting off with I Will Beat You- and i think the ban is quality for that- but i don't think people should shy away from interacting with conflict because of RolePlay or whatever

[datorangebottle]

2.

In the future, let Security handle matters like this.

(trying to work out why the mime was doing this, getting Sec or the HoP involved, trying to get him to cook more palatable food)

why is this considered good roleplay? i dont see any reason for sec or the hop to get involved.

Because normal, hinged people don't immediately leap to beating the shit out of someone for cooking bad food that they aren't obligated to eat in any way?
The HoP is the mime's direct superior. The mime disrespecting ID access and wasting food supplies is technically a security issue, doubly so if someone reports it. Talking to anyone to get the mime to stop is literally roleplaying.

Anyway, the mime was blatantly banbaiting and should have been banned. Opened up lethal force first, immediately succumbed when crit. Though, those logs do look rather suspicious and I can't help but wonder what would've happened if Maia was allowed to act on "take him to medbay" vs "take him to the gibber".

p.s. the chief engineer isn't in the right either, this is absolutely LRP behavior. i'm saying this as someone who doesn't play on MRP.

[iwishforducks]

2.

In the future, let Security handle matters like this.

(trying to work out why the mime was doing this, getting Sec or the HoP involved, trying to get him to cook more palatable food)

why is this considered good roleplay? i dont see any reason for sec or the hop to get involved.

Because normal, hinged people don't immediately leap to beating the shit out of someone for cooking bad food that they aren't obligated to eat in any way?
The HoP is the mime's direct superior. The mime disrespecting ID access and wasting food supplies is technically a security issue, doubly so if someone reports it. Talking to anyone to get the mime to stop is literally roleplaying.

normal, hinged people are both boring and far and few between. roleplaying isn't always about using your words and expecting everyone to have a sane response to everything they encounter

[Kassori]

The mime in question

[datorangebottle]

normal, hinged people are both boring and far and few between. roleplaying isn't always about using your words and expecting everyone to have a sane response to everything they encounter

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.

I rest my case.

[rasonj]

► Show Spoiler

The mime in question

I think I am an incredibly well adjusted rational human being. If I walk into the only place that serves food for the next 100 lightyears and it looks like that, I am killing and eating the chef.

[iwishforducks]

normal, hinged people are both boring and far and few between. roleplaying isn't always about using your words and expecting everyone to have a sane response to everything they encounter

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.

I rest my case.

none of this tells me why tattle telling to sec and hop constitutes as good roleplay

[Itseasytosee2me]

olved.
Because normal, hinged people don't immediately leap to beating the shit out of someone for cooking bad food that they aren't obligated to eat in any way?

Its not just bad food to be fair, its food that makes your limbs explode off without any indication or warning that it makes your limbs explode off.

[ekaterina]

normal, hinged people are both boring and far and few between. roleplaying isn't always about using your words and expecting everyone to have a sane response to everything they encounter

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.

I rest my case.

Beating up the chef does not mean killing the chef. He was at -4. He only died because he succumbed.
Even the admins agree this was valid escalation.

[conrad]

normal, hinged people are both boring and far and few between. roleplaying isn't always about using your words and expecting everyone to have a sane response to everything they encounter

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.

I rest my case.

Thing is that this videogame doesn't allow for "wait wait wait ok you win" moments.

You click til horizontal. If you stop to type you just get horizontalled faster. Seriously, it's like using your legs to talk.

The mime succumbing is banbaiting in my opinion. And it worked. Admin in charge of ban shoulda have considered that instead of slapping the ban and note on the banned dude. The ban, the logs and the fact the ban was lifted really give the precedent that the CE would've been banned if he lost the fight and decided to succumbed. I've been banbaited before, and it only works if the admin doesn't want to properly examine the case.

I think the intention was to take the mime to medbay to get revived, since that's what you do on murders. We'll never know for sure.

EDIT: take a shot for each time I said ban or a similar word. You'll die

[CPTANT]

There was always the precedent that succumb means no admin help, for some reason admins are just ignoring this precedent outright more and more.

Also what is it with admins trying to paint all IC conflict as bad? Do they really want a server where the only conflict is antag versus crew? IC conflict is the spice that a round needs, without it it becomes a boring hugbox.

[Timberpoes]

There was always the precedent that succumb means no admin help, for some reason admins are just ignoring this precedent outright more and more.

Also what is it with admins trying to paint all IC conflict as bad? Do they really want a server where the only conflict is antag versus crew? IC conflict is the spice that a round needs, without it it becomes a boring hugbox.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=690&p=14102
In 2014 nobody could agree.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=11758&p=310645
In 2017 it was still a shitshow.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=20418&p=455761&hil ... lp#p455761
In 2019 it was "poor form" and could be banbaiting under some circumstances.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=24408
Wait, no, still a shitshow.

I think the tl;dr is - The admin team continue to treat it on a case-by-case basis.

Succumbing when someone else breaks the rules against you doesn't erase their rule break, but it does deprive them of the opportunity to show they didn't intend to take you all the way to dead.

Administratively speaking, killing someone is different to critting someone and then treating them immediately after. Escalation policy even relies on this. I would argue escalation policy enforcement would be different in a scenario where you beat a player into crit then healed them, versus outright killing them then healing them.

The crit->heal strongly biases IC issue, where a valid conflict will avoid you getting noted and only critting them will usually avoid admin involvement entirely.

The kill->heal strongly biases admin issue, where a valid conflict will avoid you getting banned or noted and healing them after killing shows an element of good faith and may further reduce a potential note to an IC issue or verbal warning to be careful next time.

But where the fight was totally invalid in the first place due to the victim succumbing in crit, we generally start by treating the incident as if the attacker fully intended to heal their victim back up. The victim deprived them of the opportunity to prove good or bad faith in their actions.

[Edit] Succumbing at high health and going "he kill me" is totally approaching banbait though.

And I'm not going to say that this ban started with a ticket that went something like "Help they murderboned me" -> "Tell me what happened" -> "They keep killing me over and over" -> "They killed me three times and I dindo nuffin to them" (Totally random phrases I've totally plucked out of my asshole, no relation to any ticket real or fictional).

But I'm also not going to say this ban didn't start with that kind of omega banbaiting talk.

It is a mystery.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I love retards who don't even play MRP telling us what MRP is to defend a fucking Serviceshitter who was griefing the crew. NORMAL PEOPLE DONT BEAT UP CHEFS FOR SERVING BAD FOOD says the retard ignoring that NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T TAKE A VOW OF SILENCE THAT GIVES THEN SUPERPOWERS AND WADE KNEE DEEP IN THE DEAD MACAQUE MASS GRAVE DEEP-FRYING THEIR MONKEYBALLS.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I still think it's proof of one of the worst issues with the community, and it's the Mime/Clown being treated as part of Culture;

While I don't think Clowns and Mimes should make their gimmick griefing, as opposed to something legitimately funny, it's true that they've got a license to do it. But too few people, including them themselves a lot of the time, are willing to accept the consequences for it.

A license to grief should not be immunity to IC consequences. If you decide you're going to fill the kitchen with enough gore and viscera that we've got a new disease every time Medical finally manages to cure the last one, and you're going to take over the kitchen and refuse to serve anything that people can actually eat, and someone decides to walk in and kill you for it, unprompted, that should be Perfectly Legal. If they choose to give you after, they should be Perfectly Legal.

But a lot of people would go "That's just what Clowns/Mimes do" and refuse to stop them. The Clown or Mime who has been going around griefing people, whether it's IC or OOC grief, will also often defend themselves from the repercussions.

So Sec/The HoP won't do anything about the Clown or Mime griefing people. On the rare case they do, the Crew will rush to their defense usually. And people trying to do something about it themselves eat a ban.

If your goal as a Clown or Mime is to be a shitter and you get lynched for it, that should be a badge of honour.

E: To give my actual opinion on the ban itself: Engineer did nothing wrong. I remember this round, and that example I gave is actually how the round went. Medical was straight up calling them 'Plague Clown' because of how many viruses they kept spreading with that mess. Nobody could eat anything. Though, I'll also give the Mime credit for one thing: That Arnold Pizza came from Cargo, and it was left there after it blew someone's arm off. But that's also information noone really could've been expected to know, and given the rest of the Mime's menu, it's not unreasonable to assume. But like- seriously. Mime drew lethals first, with the saber. This is clear banbaiting. There's no way for Engineer to know they intended to stop after one swing.

[cedarbridge]

Crag gets it. LRP nerds on my MRP server.

Also, are we returning to the meta of shitter mimes?

[Super Aggro Crag]

Crag gets it. LRP nerds on my MRP server.

Also, are we returning to the meta of shitter mimes?

one mime being a shitter doesn't a meta make. mimes on manuel are usually pretty good. i personally love rolling mime and getting a clown that cooperates with me. once the clown ran for president and i was his campaign manager, answering questions from the crew during his speeches using only emojis and playing patriotic music on the minimoog as he made wild promises about defeating the syndicate once and for all and setting up a donation booth for campaign contributions.