Headmin Election 17 Discussion Thread

[dragomagol]

Who will run? Who will walk? Who will call a cab?

AwkwardStereo - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33356
CMDR_Gungnir - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33384
EmpressMaia - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33375
Kieth4 - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33360
Iain0 - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33417
Iamgoofball - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33364
Iwishforducks - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33373
Misdoubtful - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33363
NamelessFairy - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33388
RaveRadbury - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33367
Retification/Itseasytosee - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33404
Striders13 - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33362
Thedragmeme - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33358
Timberpoes - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33361
Trexter555 - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=33400

[wesoda25]

Calling a cab since a forest spirit stole my keys >=|

[Boris]

I made a post in Thedragmeme's thread but I can't see it anymore which makes me think it got deleted, but I haven't gotten a warning anywhere that I can see and I also have a forum notification that they quoted my post in a reply, and I can't see that either.

Argh.

[dragomagol]

I made a post in Thedragmeme's thread but I can't see it anymore which makes me think it got deleted, but I haven't gotten a warning anywhere that I can see and I also have a forum notification that they quoted my post in a reply, and I can't see that either.

Ye, both got deleted, probably because there's not supposed to be posting on threads allowed yet. But the threads aren't locked so a couple people have posted in them by accident. They'll probably get un-deleted once the question period opens up for real (in like 2 days).

[Boris]

snip

Ye, both got deleted, probably because there's not supposed to be posting on threads allowed yet. But the threads aren't locked so a couple people have posted in them by accident. They'll probably get un-deleted once the question period opens up for real (in like 2 days).

Ah, actual questions are meant to start on the fifteenth, that explains it.

[bastardblaster]

Timber has a very very strong chance of getting a reelection. Kieth's been inching up every year in votes. Calling it as Misdoubtful Timber Kieth triumvirate - remains to be seen if they'll simply neutralize Kieth 2-1.

[Shellton(Mario)]

I personally want to see a player who isnt an admin on the headmin team to see what they can do

[iamgoofball]

by a GOOF VOTER on the discord

[Tearling]

Who will run? Who will walk? Who will call a cab?

Here's my list of who I want to get the player vote top to bottom

iamgoofball - (I want to be able to tell my kids that I played ss13 when goofball was headmin)
Kieth4 / Timberpoes - (can't decide between these two)
Misdoubtful - (hostvote, otherwise would be here)
AwkwardStereo - (I disagree with a lot of his old decisions, kinda funny he outright says vote timberpoes in his thread)
Thedragmeme - (Assumes bad faith a lot, but generally good. Also weird stuff with pieguy)
Striders13 - (Good silicon ideas, bad tider ideas.)
RaveRadbury - (Lol)

[Super Aggro Crag]

im going to vote for my friend and not vote for goofball because he is a toxic individual

[Jackraxxus]

I want to vote Strider I wish the first 50% of his take on silicon policy wasn't so bad

[BONERMASTER]

im going to vote for my friend and not vote for goofball because he is a toxic individual

I am not running though.


With disappointing regards
-BONERMASTER

[EmpressMaia]

It's goof time.

[ekaterina]

Who will run? Who will walk? Who will call a cab?

Here's my list of who I want to get the player vote top to bottom

iamgoofball - (I want to be able to tell my kids that I played ss13 when goofball was headmin)
Kieth4 / Timberpoes - (can't decide between these two)
Misdoubtful - (hostvote, otherwise would be here)
AwkwardStereo - (I disagree with a lot of his old decisions, kinda funny he outright says vote timberpoes in his thread)
Thedragmeme - (Assumes bad faith a lot, but generally good. Also weird stuff with pieguy)
Striders13 - (Good silicon ideas, bad tider ideas.)
RaveRadbury - (Lol)

Why be mean to RaveRadbury? You don't even bother to say why you put him last.

[Tearling]

Why be mean to RaveRadbury? You don't even bother to say why you put him last.

Rave has several common admin traits I dislike. I am doing everyone a service by only typing "lol"
I have a long and detailed explanation for why I am putting Rave in last, and if you want to read that explanation, you can unspoil it. It will come off as harsh, but I'm posting this as an explanation, not a call for argument. I would really rather avoid drama, but I also want to explain my vote. So yeah, please don't smite me for this post.
Rave, I recommend you don't read this post. I'm going to borrow one of your phrases, my intent is not to be rude, but it might come off like that. I don't want you to think this is an insult to you as a person, as I believe you are a great player.

Abandon all hope ye who enter here:

► Show Spoiler

• Hypocrisy and Bias:

viewtopic.php?p=653748#p653748
Calling an appeal histrionic while, in the same post, being histrionic.
The entire appeal was a shitshow, with the deletion of non-peanut messages, clear bias and hypocrisy, and strange rule applications (Like the idea of an admin asking for advice, without calling for a headmin review) He apologized for this, but his apology in this case, I believe, should be taken apart and analyzed for exactly what it means.

Hey, everybody. I've unlocked the thread to allow DendyDoom and Timberpoes to reply. This whole situation turned out to be a bit of a mess, and I'm sorry that it ended up like this. My intent in both of my replies was never to be rude or targeting of DendyDoom, though it seems like it's definitely come off like that. I lost perspective during attempts to sound impartial, and I do want to apologize for my mistake to both DendyDoom and Timber.

Would any rational person, without reading the apology, assume RaveRadbury was attempting to be impartial at any point in the DrearyDoom case? I believe the answer is no. The appeal has multiple cases of "I was trying to do X, but it did not come off as X." Sadly, it's hard to prove whether or not he was trying to be impartial, but I'd like you to continue asking the question "Would a rational person assume he was trying to be X?" where X is impartial in this first section of his apology.

After further deliberation, we have decided to reconsider the ruling and allow the issue to resolve between the two originally involved in the appeal, Timber and Dendy. This is a decision that the full headmin team talked about between all three of us and discussed, before making sure with each other that it would be okay to post - this also applied to the original rejection message, which had been talked about in the same fashion.

It is necessary to point out that their rejection message was controversial, and generated more salt in players club than any decision made by headmins in a long time. If it wasn't for internal admin pressure, and external player pressure, do you believe that they would have reconsidered their ruling to allow the issue to be resolved between Timberpoes and Dendy?

It may have been a bit rash for me to delete both of your posts and lock the thread - I was afraid of it becoming a bit of a mess, and wanted to sort everything out as best as I could, as the sudden turn was a bit of a shock. In light of this, I've undeleted both of them and unlocked the thread to rectify this.

The deletion of player messages ties into my next bolded point "Listening:" so try to keep this part in mind for later.

Essentially, when we talked about the original issue we all made a decision, and then we posted it with the assumption that everything would be fine from there. We didn't expect Timber to overrule it afterward, which is what caused the main amount of confusion and mess - but after some reflection, and the fact that if the original appeal was done without headmin review, this appeal seems like it will be fine to just simply allow to resolve naturally with the decision of Timberpoes and any (if required) further talk to DendyDoom.

This is in regards to the strange rule application mentioned earlier. I don't think there has ever been a case of an admin asking for headmin advice, the headmins taking that as a request for a headmin review, and then the admin overruling the headmin decision. This isn't relevant to my explanation of my vote, and I'm only including this so I don't get called out for removing parts of his apology to make him look worst.

Again, I'd like to apologize for how I acted and came across in both cases. My intention was only to be impartial, and I don't think I did the best job coming across as that. I hope that, going forward, we can all avoid situations like this, myself included, and use this appeal as something to reflect upon going forward in both naming policy, headmin interaction and player appeals.

The first sentence is a straight-forward apology, and likely the best apology in the thread. But after that it only gets worst. The second sentence is a case of, as I mentioned earlier, "I was trying to do X, but it did not come off as X." Again, ask the question, would any rational person assume RaveRadbury was trying to be impartial? His third sentence is an opinion, a hope, that seems to imply the shitshow was a group effort. It wasn't. It started because Timberpoes misunderstood the admin consensus on naming policy, or it changed over time and he was left behind, and it spiraled out of control when RaveRadbury and the other two headmins (not named, they're not running for headmin this election so they're irrelevant to this post) made their rejection, and it became a proper shitshow when Rave began to remove posts and take potshots at Doom. I fear that this might also be implying that any part of his is Dreary's fault, implying they should also try to avoid situations like that. I sincerely hope that is not what he meant to imply.

It's hard to accept the blame for a shitshow, his straight-forward apology in this first sentence was likely the hardest for Rave to type out in that whole thing, and it should be taken as it is, a true apology. But an apology isn't enough, in my eyes, to make the rest of this shitshow go away. Anyways, one last sentence:

We were also mistaken in asserting that it was in bad faith to write for headmin review. Admin discretion can only be handled by headmins and the only place to handle that are in appeals.

The fact the headmin team was mistaken in the first place is bad. This wasn't an apology for their mistaken belief, it was an acknowledgement that they were wrong. Frankly though, even if it was an apology, it would still be bad. Expecting players to appeal to an admin for a decision the admin made wrong is reminiscent of an old MSO quote:

Players should not be expected to bite their tongue towards admins who fuck up, even in minor ways. They are allowed to express their frustration, and all of our admins are capable of handling it.

• Listening, or a lack thereof:

As you can likely tell from my signature, the idea of an admin acknowledging that players just want to have a voice is an idea I like. Everyone wants a voice, removing their voice is akin to spiting them as a person.
From the Dreary thread: "I'm locking this, we don't want to read another essay from you."
Banning of Sinful for asking "Why is drama stirring against the rules"
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=33099

I'm not going to say that Rave is going to go around banning everyone that disagrees with him full 1984, because he really isn't. But as stated in my previous point he is more than willing to cut people out of the community, and remove their voice if he believes that their voice might cause a mess.

For the rest of this I'd like to preface that I do not like Sinfulbliss. Just like Sans I admit I am biased against him, hence why I never posted any defense for him in the peanut thread. That being said, this is not a defense of sinfulbliss as a person, but more evidence for why I'm not voting for RaveRadbury.

It may have been a bit rash for me to delete both of your posts and lock the thread - I was afraid of it becoming a bit of a mess, and wanted to sort everything out as best as I could, as the sudden turn was a bit of a shock. In light of this, I've undeleted both of them and unlocked the thread to rectify this.

This next paragraph is going to be a bit of a tangent, but it's necessary for my next point.
Breaking the rules isn't the same as breaking the laws, there are inherent philosophical differences in each, but I believe they are similar enough that we can draw a line between what's right and wrong IRL and what's right and wrong on the forum in this specific case. If you've ever taken a criminal law course in college, or studied it at all, you've likely heard of something called "Actus Reus" or the "Criminal Act." The basis of all law is that we shouldn't punish someone for what they are, but rather, what they do. The criminal mind can be relevant to a court case, or the "Mens Rea" in law philosophy, but you cannot hold someone criminally accountable for mere thoughts, or who they are as a person.

With this in mind, what did Sinfulbliss do that was the "Actus Reus" or the criminal act? He asked a good-faith question. and stated "who cares man the world isn't gonna blow up. everythings gonna be just fine just close the forum and in a week the issue will have resolved itself"

I believe the best counterargument to this is "The ban wasn't placed because of that post, but because of all of his previous drama-stirring posts. This is just the straw that broke the camel's back"
To which I would respond with RaveRadbury's argument itself:

This ban was made for a trend of posting that was diffuse enough to not warrant immediate action over any one post

There was no single incident that was enough to be worth banning Sinfulbliss. Case closed, he shouldn't have been banned in the first place. Or, RaveRadbury should have taken one specific post that was diffuse enough to warrant immediate action.

But the most disrespectful thing RaveRadbury has likely added to this case was:

Future teams should consider carefully whether they would like to re-introduce this content into the community

This flips the requirements to unban someone on their head. In a natural appeal Sinful would just need to prove that his content didn't break the rules. Here RaveRadbury is trying to convince any future headmin teams into keeping Sinful banned regardless of any rulebreaks by implying that the content he brings with him is inherently bad for the community. He, of course, immediately locked the thread after posting this, preventing Sinful from giving any form of defense.

The only grace that can be given to him in this case, I believe, is in his apology.
viewtopic.php?p=661681#p661681

• Drama:

RaveRadbury hates drama. That's fair, I hate drama, lots of people do. Drama is icky. But it will happen regardless, no matter how much control you have, because mistakes happen, and drama will occur. Therefor when voting for a headmin, with the topic of "drama" in mind, you should ask yourself who deals with drama the best.
Is it Timberpoes, who rationally lays out all of his thoughts and beliefs while attempting to argue with passion for what he believes in?
Keith4, who believes the most important thing to do in drama situations is to engage with the community?
Goofball, who has once said "this obsession with avoiding drama is what's causing serious problems with the tgstation administrative teams and accountability"?
Or RaveRadbury, someone who, in the examples previously given, prefers to quiet any drama, make decisions he knows the other headmins will back him up on, and then only after handing out bans, listens to the community, realized he fucked up, and apologizes?

This further ties into the hypocrisy section. RaveRadbury hates drama, bans people for drama stirring, deletes messages he believes will cause drama, all the while causing more drama than any user could hope to equal. Or, as CPTANT puts it:

Ban RaveRadbury, he is literally the only one creating drama here.

• Platform:

Headmin Election Threads viewforum.php?f=38

Finally lets look at Rave's platform, and his goals for tgstation.

• Draw content creators to the community

• Get our SS14 presence established

• Make improvements in response to the Satisfaction Survey

Things are looking good overall, but we have room to improve!

These are all good goals, and all 3 focus on expanding the community, and increasing community satisfaction. But I'd like you to read the other headmin candidate's threads as well, for example...

1- KEEP LRP TIDING ALIVE AND WELL. (LRP ONLY) KEEP TIDING DEAD AND BURIED(MRP ONLY)
2- AN ATTEMPT FOR A NON-BIASED LOOK AT ALL APPEALS.
3- CLAMP DOWN ON INACTIVE ADMINS.
4- STRIVING FOR THE FUTURE
5- SUPPORT FOR MENTORS
6- CAMPBELL- THE MARATHON COMPROMISE

Notice the glaring differences? Keith4's goals are specific, and invite disagreement. They're honest and upfront about exactly what he wants to do. And it's not just Keith4, take Striders for example:

Silicons are NOT CREW ALIGNED
Defanging the tiders
Admins and events (from admins)

These goals confront controversial topics to their face, and again, invite disagreement. Almost all of the headmin candidates have these controversial goals. Controversial goals are not inherently a good thing, but it shows that these headmin candidates want to solve controversial problems. Regardless of how you like the solution they offer, at least they offer a solution.

In conclusion,
Matched with the previous section of "Drama" it altogether paints a picture that RaveRadbury is afraid to talk about controversial topics up until he solves them. An "Act first, apologize later" mentality to headministration. If this is the case, it shows a severe distrust of the community. In my opinion, it is exactly this mentality which drives a wedge into the already widening valley of administrator's faith in players, and player's trust in admins. This opinion is why I hold Timberpoes in such high esteem as an admin, because he has addressed this exact point in one of his previous posts, and I'll leave that post as the final remark in this "short"essay.

When an admin handles a ticket poorly, they risk creating a guarded player that doesn't trust admins. That will negatively impact dozens of future ahelps such a player may have with admins. And those negative player interactions entrench more negative admin attitudes. It's a negative cycle that feeds back into itself.

Edit:
Fixing the links

[Boot]

Along with Tearling's wonderful list I'll happily throw in my own issue with Rave and that is how they'll hide their true intentions. If you look back to first headmin campaign they used the fact that they would not support a word filter as a main part of their platform.

Just as we do not have a list of names that aren't allowed, likewise we will not have a list of banned words.

Now look at the their platform now, it even has a meme painting them as the brave fighter going into the ring to bring that word filter into existence. A filter that they campaigned on being against. Stop voting for Rave please they are not someone to be trusted.

[Epicgamer545]

I heavily dislike Goof’s third platform. Where are we going to get the donation money? Keep Manuel just Manuel, please. You can vote for them, I like having Trial by Combat, just don’t turn Manuel and Campbell into Skyrat while your at it.

Stereo is cool, but I’d rather be voting for someone who has a goal already. Perhaps this opinion can sway as the debates go on.

The rest I want to witness in the debates before I have a proper opinion of them.

[wesoda25]

The idea that drama is inevitable and that trying to prevent it/avoid it just creates more problems is pretty smart, I hadn't realized that til now. Thanks goof!

[Tearling]

The idea that drama is inevitable and that trying to prevent it/avoid it just creates more problems is pretty smart, I hadn't realized that til now. Thanks goof!

Huh?

[Armhulen]

The idea that drama is inevitable and that trying to prevent it/avoid it just creates more problems is pretty smart, I hadn't realized that til now. Thanks goof!

goof's thread is 100% populist slurry and i see a lot of people are falling for it already

[wesoda25]

The idea that drama is inevitable and that trying to prevent it/avoid it just creates more problems is pretty smart, I hadn't realized that til now. Thanks goof!

Huh?

The goofball quote you have in the drama section of your spoiler

[wesoda25]

The idea that drama is inevitable and that trying to prevent it/avoid it just creates more problems is pretty smart, I hadn't realized that til now. Thanks goof!

goof's thread is 100% populist slurry and i see a lot of people are falling for it already

Nah, we all know what we're buying. I won't push that dead meme too much but I genuinely did find what he said interesting especially when I look back on some of the things I did as an admin.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

I'm not too hot on the candidates up for offer this time :(


Rave / Drag / Timber / Stereo / Striders / Goofball / Kieth is probably going to be my ordering if nobody else pops in

Stream of consciousness posting @ 1 in the afternoon:

► Show Spoiler

For all the public-facing "drama" Rave might've made, I think internally he's improved since the last time(s) we've had him as headmin. From an admin PoV, having a stable and good internal headmin's what I'm looking for. Clamping down on dumpster fire drama always gets your hand burned, but I think it was better than letting it smolder more, even if there was a better way of handling how exactly it was done.

Drag's a MRP admin and for MRP they seem like they've got a good head on their shoulders. I don't exactly trust all their LRP views but that's what other headmins are there for. Pretty reasonable person, would be excited to see what they can do in the position.

I've said before that I don't like Timberpoes, and then immediately worked with him in various peanut threads to help explain stuff to players. I also think he's a great admin.
It's a love/hate relationship. (IMO, he's great for public-facing work and a really, really good admin - but I don't like him too much as a headmin? I value super high levels of stability and a mainly admin-facing pov for headmins, while timber seems to be focused more on the player-facing part of adminning. Makes him a good admin, but makes me a little antsy when it comes to him wanting to flip his Mover and Shaker switch on)
Despite all this complaining that I have about him, he's managed it well before, so I'm happy to swallow a bit of my pride and accept someone who I might not approve of as much given that they've shown themselves capable already.

Stereo needs to accept my money for art

Striders is great but I think he needs to wait a little bit more in the microwave before he's ready. Silicon policy changes are all well and great, but changing policy to make them significantly easier to manipulate into antagonizing crew will result in silicons just being hated more by the general populace - there's not enough enforcement of silicon policy, and not enough people skilled at enforcing it, to support those sorts of changes. Plus their platform as a whole seems sparse when you look past that one silicon component.

I don't like Goofball. Unlike my "I don't like Timberpoes" where that's "I don't like timberpoes as a headmin and think they're great otherwise" I just don't like Goofball.
His platform's stupid.

Kieth seems like he consistently tries to divide the community into players vs admins or servers vs other servers. All his claims sound nice on paper, but he's never come up with a decent method for mentor implementation (which will never work) and the fact that I think he's wholly incapable of managing the administrative team in any positive regard make me put him less than goofball.

As an extra point on Kieth, I notice that a lot of people on the forums share a fairly positive view of Timberpoes as an admin.
Kieth writes that he wants to remove admins who haven't been active - with stricter policies on active playtime, or else you're out.
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/timberpoes (or my own scrubby, if you like me) and check the last time he's played (or the last time I've played, ffs)

There's plenty of admins who put in work for the community and servers in methods other than being directly on the servers - and the reason there's many """"inactive"""" gamemasters is because they're expected to be contributing their experience, knowledge, and time in ways other than direct administration. Removal of them would be removing many people who still provide large benefits to the community.

[Timberpoes]

In trying too hard to make the admin team appear spotless, flawless, and drama-free through encouraging everything to be handled internally, we exclude normal players from truly understanding the admin team and how it functions (or how it breaks down, and that doesn't have to always be private).

They don't ever see the reality of being an admin. The disagreements, debates and in-depth discussions into rules and policy. Can't call out another admin on a bullshit ban in public unless you couch your language, lest you breed internal discontent. Usually it's better not to comment at all, so you don't rock the boat or get into trouble. Or upset another admin. But then nothing of value gets said in public. It's all handled internally, and nobody knows what's going on, and those that buck the trend stand out like nails that need to be hammered back into line.

If you want a breeding ground for pointless community drama, that's your petri dish. If the players only see admins batting for eachother when they're right, and radio silence when they're not, what other outcomes would we honestly expect? You'll see this at play in some of the most drama-laden peanut threads.

Of course going the other extreme is bad too. But ultimately the community sometimes needs to see the admin team dancing for them. To remind everyone that ivory towers aside, we're all on the same team and we all just want to make SS13 as fun as possible.

If the community doesn't feel that way, then that is an admin team skill issue and the admin team needs to git gud.

[Qbmax32]

its my understanding that gamemasters are generally immune to the inactivity rules, since their knowledge as former headmins could be/is useful, if inactivity rules become more strict gamemasters would still be exempt i believe

[Timberpoes]

GM inactivity flexability is just a convention.

You can deadmin a GM for any arbitrary level of inactivity as if they were any other admin, but it is usually done when the GM is genuinely inactive, does not respond to pings and seems to be totally detatched from all aspects of the community.

The primary reason we keep inactive GMs around is hidden from everyone in the #tgs-leads channel. It represents the combined experience of every former headmin as a giant melting pot of ideas and headmin team history.

And it'll sound like a cop-out, but you have to be a part of that group to truly understand how much undocumented knowledge lives rent free in the heads of every GM for what happened during their term(s), and how often that information proves useful across each term.

Deadminning a GM that is responsive to pings is a mistake because you're not only depriving your own term of their experience, but you're going to end up watching the next term after yours re-promote them back anyway.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

In trying too hard to make the admin team appear spotless, flawless, and drama-free through encouraging everything to be handled internally, we exclude normal players from truly understanding the admin team and how it functions (or how it breaks down, and that doesn't have to always be private).

They don't ever see the reality of being an admin. The disagreements, debates and in-depth discussions into rules and policy. Can't call out another admin on a bullshit ban in public unless you couch your language, lest you breed internal discontent. Usually it's better not to comment at all, so you don't rock the boat or get into trouble. Or upset another admin. But then nothing of value gets said in public. It's all handled internally, and nobody knows what's going on, and those that buck the trend stand out like nails that need to be hammered back into line.

If you want a breeding ground for pointless community drama, that's your petri dish. If the players only see admins batting for eachother when they're right, and radio silence when they're not, what other outcomes would we honestly expect? You'll see this at play in some of the most drama-laden peanut threads.

Of course going the other extreme is bad too. But ultimately the community sometimes needs to see the admin team dancing for them. To remind everyone that INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS towers aside, we're all on the same team and we all just want to make SS13 as fun as possible.

If the community doesn't feel that way, then that is an admin team skill issue and the admin team needs to git gud.

thankfully Timberpoes came in just as I finished my stream of consciousness posting about him (this is what happens when you have two of Domitius's candidates in the same room) (we're all mentally linked)

This is what I mean by player-facing - Timber's got, for better or for worse, a lock on how to handle things in a way that people can understand what's going on. That's great for an admin to have, since our job is helping people understand things, whether that's be helping folks understand game mechanics, helping folks understand what they did wrong/how to avoid it, or helping folks understand what happened in cases where they didn't get a full picture.

The way I view a headmin, however, is someone who effectively administrates the admin team - and as such, they're supposed to be (from my pov) entirely admin-facing, aside from the few times they poke their heads out for ban appeal overrides or a blurb at the end of a policy thread. Comparing this to their internal duties of handling who can get candidated, handling promotions from candidate -> game admin, OK'ing a promotion to trainer/DJ/etc, managing over complaints, abuse, and so on, there's a pretty significantly larger workload that is admin-facing.

Internally I want the stability and lack of "boat rocking" that makes timber such a hit externally - I don't want a loose cannon.


Also I'm the hardline one when it comes to rule enforcement and he's the one who gives evaders second chances so we're opposites (it was designed this way by Domi) (Literally all problems can be blamed on Domitius)

[Tearling]

The idea that drama is inevitable and that trying to prevent it/avoid it just creates more problems is pretty smart, I hadn't realized that til now. Thanks goof!

Huh?

The goofball quote you have in the drama section of your spoiler

Ah, I see. For context of his quote:
He said this in 2020, back when he was unbanned after his discord ban for "repeated drama stirring" on the discord.
viewtopic.php?p=552728#p552728

[Timberpoes]

Yup. I'm actually very divisive internally within the admin team. I think I share the same overarching goals of making SS13 awesome, but with different approaches, viewpoints and outcomes.

Not that I don't do a ton of internal admin stuff as well, but I'm much more likely to take a player-centric view in internal discussions, and will often argue back against admin-centric views.

And to quote Mothblocks chatting about our term on the Manuelcord

Terrabyte — 24/12/2022 12:57
I hear Timber was Anti-admin social club

mothblocks — 24/12/2022 12:58
i cant speak for them

timber is smart and competent and should know every problem i have with them and hopefully has that stashed somewhere in their path to self improvement
i wouldve blown my brains out if they werent doing a crazy unhealthy amount of work near the tail end

I would state I did a lot of compromises during our term to preserve Mothblocks' sanity and regularly dropped battles I really wanted to fight just to preserve what little energy they had for more pressing matters.

A loose cannon, but usually just filled with confetti. Sometimes cannonballs.

[iwishforducks]

timber has been pretty consistent with their oversight of the admin team, i hope they win in that regard

misdoubtful is hote vote so. they seem supportive in general. i hope they do some good with the other headmins. sometimes it truly is just about labor and getting hands on board.

kieth i'll vote for because i want to see what it would be like for a player to become headmin. i dont know if i agree with their policy on paper but i agree with their spirit.

striders is cool i like them but i dont agree with their silicon policy. either way they're a good vote if you're looking for someone that's very knowledgeable and dependable

akwardstereo had this big blob that i didn't read and when i opened their policy thread i couldn't decide if it was based or not. because of this i'm putting them right smack in the middle of my card.

dragmeme: really could not be more opposed to their policy. except i like that they want mentoring so i'm putting them above rave

rave has been consistently..... mundane. at first i liked them because they wanted to crack down on the slur usage on servers, but now that rule 11 is in place i hardly find any reason to vote for them ever. i agree with very little of their policy and the actions they take, and the things they spearhead these days is merely just streaming.

GOOFBALL 2023 LET'S GO!!!!!! (puts him at the bottom of my card)

[conrad]

timber has been pretty consistent with their oversight of the admin team, i hope they win in that regard

misdoubtful is hote vote so. they seem supportive in general. i hope they do some good with the other headmins. sometimes it truly is just about labor and getting hands on board.

kieth i'll vote for because i want to see what it would be like for a player to become headmin. i dont know if i agree with their policy on paper but i agree with their spirit.

striders is cool i like them but i dont agree with their silicon policy. either way they're a good vote if you're looking for someone that's very knowledgeable and dependable

akwardstereo had this big blob that i didn't read and when i opened their policy thread i couldn't decide if it was based or not. because of this i'm putting them right smack in the middle of my card.

dragmeme: really could not be more opposed to their policy. except i like that they want mentoring so i'm putting them above rave

rave has been consistently..... mundane. at first i liked them because they wanted to crack down on the slur usage on servers, but now that rule 11 is in place i hardly find any reason to vote for them ever. i agree with very little of their policy and the actions they take, and the things they spearhead these days is merely just streaming.

GOOFBALL 2023 LET'S GO!!!!!! (puts him at the bottom of my card)

For a various assortment of reasons, swap keith with strider and that's my card.

[Epicgamer545]

I want Timber to host vote Goofball, it would be funny. Imagine what would happen.

[ekaterina]

iwishforducks' candidate thread just dropped and, holy fuck, there is not a good proposal among his main ones, not a single one.

> ruin the server for MRP players by ending MRP
> ruin the server for LRP players by turning it into MRP
> remove players' ability to appeal bans if the headmins just don't feel like reviewing it (no objective standard)

I finally have someone that will go BELOW KIETH when I vote.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

holy shit I wanted more candidates but not like this
ducks I'm sorry to tell you this but that candidate thread blows

nuking manuel will not make the MRP players suddenly want to go play on terry or make the admins want to moderate there
I'm all for increasing standards that's cool sure but "manuel drew people i liked to it from bagil... if we get rid of manuel they'll come back" is really, really stupid for reasons that are hard to put into words

getting rid of manuel will just make the manuel admins leave

[datorangebottle]

iwishforducks' candidate thread just dropped and, holy fuck, there is not a good proposal among his main ones, not a single one.

> ruin the server for MRP players by ending MRP
> ruin the server for LRP players by turning it into MRP
> remove players' ability to appeal bans if the headmins just don't feel like reviewing it (no objective standard)

I finally have someone that will go BELOW KIETH when I vote.

Even goofball has ONE good platform this year, and he's STILL doing the "lol i am promising code changes but not really ha ha it's totally okay right oranges" shit. "Kill MRP, make adminning a nightmare, make ban appeals a nightmare." Also, I don't see how the co-op admin stuff is going to work if we already have a lack of admins at peak hours; at best nothing will change, at worst less adminning will happen because the two admins on the ticket can't agree or there aren't two admins on. It's kind of hard to reasonably ask admins to work together on tickets AND ALSO assert that there's a lack of active admins in the same breath.

So far, there's a lack of strong candidates within my criteria, so i'm going to predict a goofball win despite voting opposite. For the curious: my vote order is to always put goofball and non-admin candidates on the bottom. There are gonna be a few exceptions to that this year; one candidate in particular earned goofball's spot, and another has had some decent vouches from people I consider trustworthy sources.

My vote order so far is probably Timberpoes > Stereo > kieth > Striders > Drag > ducks > goofball > rave.

[iwishforducks]

i'll reply to these when discussions threads are opened on the main threads. im not going to use this thread as a soapbox

[Qbmax32]

real ones remember 2016 goofball trump platform

[Super Aggro Crag]

real ones remember 2016 goofball trump platform

real ones remember when goof complained about someone making empty promises and shitposting and me saying "you do that every election" and getting like a nice post quote streak going on

[datorangebottle]

real ones remember 2016 goofball trump platform

real ones remember when goof complained about someone making empty promises and shitposting and me saying "you do that every election" and getting like a nice post quote streak going on

pepperidge farms remembers.

[Turbonerd]

Already too many players that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about being a candidate.

[wesoda25]

real ones remember 2016 goofball trump platform

real ones remember when goof complained about someone making empty promises and shitposting and me saying "you do that every election" and getting like a nice post quote streak going on

Must have been a hell of a feeling

Also “remove manuel” is and always will be a bad idea, but I think beyond that ducks has some genuinely interesting things in their thread that would make for great talking points.

[toemas]

shut up nigger

What did he mean by this?

[Epicgamer545]

Instead of improving the policy how about we just remove it entirely? And let’s kick Manuel off of the face of the earth while we are at it, for good fun!

[Tearling]

Instead of improving the policy how about we just remove it entirely? And let’s kick Manuel off of the face of the earth while we are at it, for good fun!

I remember the days of pre-manuel. Kill&Clone... Sybil being the best roleplay server... yeah lets not do that. #NeverDeleteManuel

[datorangebottle]

Why be mean to RaveRadbury? You don't even bother to say why you put him last.

I missed this post the first time I scrolled through the thread, and even though it wasn't directed at me-
Any admin who thinks it's okay to double-warn and pseudo-blacklist someone before they have a chance to improve probably shouldn't be a headmin.
See the first quote in my signature for details, or if your memory's hazy.

[Capsandi]

Doubtful- GG have fun being headmin lololol

Goof has always been my first vote(Except when sticky ran)(I voted goof b4 it was cool) their third point has no chance of happening so you can safely ignore it. The first two points are fine and I for one would like to larp as a public attorney for chucklefuck mcgee on his 5th offense sm suiciding at roundstart.
Stereo has a good platform for admin coverage, which is probably the biggest actual issue with the servers right now. I wouldn't know because i dont ahelp lol
Keith has a meh platform. Mentors will never happen. Will probably win player vote anyhow.
I agree with strider's silicon take which doesn't seem to be popular so they're higher on my list.
Ducks is going to get black bagged by the manuel discord before he can shut it down lol.
Timber is an all-around good pick, a bit overhyped but thats not his fault.
Drag is a mrp candidate so I don't really know how good their platform is, it seems good? They make entertaining appeals so I may bump them up.
I'm surprised rave is running. I saw less of him on the servers than either of his coheads, saw more of spook in policy threads(and spook ran policy bus, good job spook wish i had joined in there), and san was balancing headmin(jail) and maptainer(prison). Rave had some milquetoast policy threads on "cultivating community" (when the community thrives as a result of the project thriving and not the other way around) and that was about it? Streaming took way longer than it should have considering we already had experience of one server having streaming allowed on it. I've seen better second terms.

Close race this year, well for my ballot it is.

[TheLoLSwat]

First thoughts
AwkwardStereo - doesnt even have a platform + i dont think they want to win
EmpressMaia - troll i think
Kieth4 - definitely wont win....... probably.... There is no shot that Keith wins but if you look closer at his humble thread, he has some good points which is respectable.
Iamgoofball - PTSD from his time hosting hippie, please save us
Iwishforducks -
Misdoubtful - already won but still won me over with their post, nice resume so its time to let them cook
RaveRadbury - if Rave really promised not to change the slur filter and then went back on it, it is definitely a point against them. Even if it was the right thing to do, he still went back on his campaign promise which makes the vote iffy
Thedragmeme - MRP, would probably be an alright headmin (which isnt even the worst thing when looking at the choices this term)
Timberpoes - (very?) crew aligned HOS is fun as a crewmember, and can work wonderfully if the HOS is talented (which timber is no doubt), but if timber being headmin will rock the boat of the admin team too much maybe they should just stay as the crew aligned warden that yells at HOS and sec for brigging too long. However, I will say that timber headmin stocks have been skyrocketing
Striders - Coherent fun humble appeal from a player that stares at maps a lot, already a great contender because they managed to not fumble over their own policies like quite a bit of the competition


Which candidates have rising stocks? (TLDR)

Misdoubtful >= Timber ≈ Striders > (A+ team) : clear frontrunners, and the three of them would at the very least be average headmins (MUCH better to be only decent than incompetent), Misdoubtful also already won so they would be placed here regardless.
small gap
Kieth4 > RaveRadbury > Drag(A- team) : Wouldnt be the worst, and very possible that they can win it, but their stocks are either actively dropping (just reading tearlings post dropped Rave from A to A- and i only skimmed) or there just isnt enough to justify a vote for a lot of people (MRP)
? gap
Goofballs purgatory ( i guess B++++?): Goofball can quite easily sit in the headmin chair and not do anything too dumb before handing the baton off. Chances are Goof will do something to make his time in the chair legendary. However, its still goofball who is probably cursed so he cant leave the "i mean he isnt bad but really?" cloud that hovers him every election
? gap (but everyone below have effectively no chance of winning unless something DRASTICALLY improves their stocks)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ this line separates the troll candidates from the real ones. On any given year goofball is either directly above this line or directly below
AwkwardStereo (C+): doesnt take himself seriously, fun to read and lends support to an actual candidate
large gap
EmpressMaia ≈ Iwishforducks (D-):

Will update this as stocks increase and decrease

edit 1 (2/14/2023 12:53) : Strider and Kieth4 changed places

[NoxVS]

can't wait to vote for goof so he can give us the opportunity to vote a second time

[WineAllWine]

Timber absolutely has my #1 vote - it's not even close. Kieth is second.

[kieth4]

I'm really thankful for all the support on forums this year around- usually the forum dwellers hate me. Thanks guys <3