Admin abused a player for ahelping and steals their heretic roll

[EmpressMaia]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33471

Can't wait to see the actual ahelp messages

Also sorry for taking up like 2 or 3 peanut threads. Working on my titles

[bastardblaster]

bozo down

[rasonj]

The initial ahelp seems both annoying and in bad faith, imagine thinking anyone would tc trade heretic for wizard. If the initial rejection had included a "We are not doing any tc trades this round" I imagine it would have stopped any future ahelps, but I also don't feel like it was mandatory. I would mark the appeal for these ahelps as an IC issue. Learn to talk nicer to admins to get nicer answers. Use more words to keep players from spamming ahelp.

[JusticeGoat]

I get people asking for tc trades all the time, no i am not giving wizard out either. Unless its a funny idea, i just say no and deny it.

[ekaterina]

Holy crap, this reflects really poorly on Rectification. On the end stages of the headmin election, no less.
Absolute failure to communicate with the player, not even a single word. Not quite on the level of "wordless bans" but the same shitty underlying concept.
Doesn't once speak to the player, gives him a note. Shitmin behaviour.

Also why the fuck is Vekter posting peanuts on the thread itself?

[Itseasytosee2me]

I see rejection of a ticket equivalent to saying "No" others might disagree.

[kieth4]

I somewhat agree with ekatrina here, this whole issue could have been resolved if the admin had simply communicated. USE WORDS. SPEAK.

[Striders13]

If you chain-spam ahelps, you can get owned.

[BlueMemesauce]

If his heretic status really got removed, then it might have seemed to him that he was in the process of receiving a different antag.

[ekaterina]

If you chain-spam ahelps, you can get owned.

What else would he do when the admin doesn't say anything other than try to actually get a reply?

[Scriptis]

His heretic status didn't get removed, and he should've taken the hint after getting lightning bolted after opening the second ticket.

It doesn't hurt to use words, and Rectification could have used some, but if you're going to put in this little effort when you chain-open tickets, you deserve to get dunked on.

wiz? wiz? WIZ WIZ WWZIW IW WI, can i have wizard please? if no, revenant please

if this is your ticket I'm not putting in any effort for a response. the answer is no. stop asking.

we aren't customer service, we don't get paid, and we already put in way too much fucking effort for a 2d spaceman game. this is the most minor of minor grievances of all time

edit: actually looking at these timestamps you should've at least told him what was up when you gave him his heretic back

[iwishforducks]

the reject button gives the players an explanation. admins shouldnt have to give a long winded response to those tickets.

based rectification for lightning bolting them when they opened another ticket.

[Turbonerd]

People aren't entitled to getting a response for such a shitty ahelp. People aren't entitled to receive antag trades. The ticket getting rejected is an obvious hint that the antag trade got rejected. The zaps are an even more obvious hint that the antag trade got rejected.

It's quite simple. Shut the fuck up. If you don't like heretic, then don't roll it. You're not entitled to having any antag round. It's a privilege, not a right.

[Vekter]

Holy crap, this reflects really poorly on Rectification. On the end stages of the headmin election, no less.
Absolute failure to communicate with the player, not even a single word. Not quite on the level of "wordless bans" but the same shitty underlying concept.
Doesn't once speak to the player, gives him a note. Shitmin behaviour.

Also why the fuck is Vekter posting peanuts on the thread itself?

That's not a peanut, my comment is well within what's allowed on both complaints and bans. Nothing wrong with me pointing out historical precedence.

Also, as usual, awful take. We're not obliged to be nice to people who are being a pain in the ass.

[conrad]

Absolute failure to communicate with the player, not even a single word. Not quite on the level of "wordless bans" but the same shitty underlying concept.

Rejected by Rectification

Doesn't once speak to the player, gives him a note. Shitmin behaviour.

Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) punished Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) with Lightning bolt.

Ekaterina you sound like the kind of person that will flood a person's inbox with "hey wanna go out" and not take the hint when it's been days they're rejecting you.

Also why the fuck is Vekter posting peanuts on the thread itself?

Because Vekter is doing a 100% completion of posting in every single fucking ban and complaint thread.

[Boot]

we aren't customer service, we don't get paid, and we already put in way too much fucking effort for a 2d spaceman game. this is the most minor of minor grievances of all time

Scriptis I love you bud but this is the 2nd time I've seen you be like "plwease give us some slack we arn't even being paid to be jannies uwu" if you don't want to handle the heat then don't take up the position how hard is that jesus christ.

[kieth4]

I stand by what I said here. Please, give a simple no man. It's all it takes! Speak! Communicate!

His status got taken away and returned, it's a fucking confusing situation man.

Ticket Three
can i get a reason? shocking me for asking antg trade and not talking is uncool of an admin
mrspyde ➡ Admins
2023-02-22T17:57:17

The player gets confused!He asks for clarification on wtf is going on and he gets...smited again.

To all admin defenders, why is giving 1 word too hard?

[Turbonerd]

I stand by what I said here. Please, give a simple no man. It's all it takes! Speak! Communicate!

His status got taken away and returned, it's a fucking confusing situation man.

Ticket Three
can i get a reason? shocking me for asking antg trade and not talking is uncool of an admin
mrspyde ➡ Admins
2023-02-22T17:57:17

The player gets confused!He asks for clarification on wtf is going on and he gets...smited again.

To all admin defenders, why is giving 1 word too hard?

Admin already explained it using the reject and smite buttons. It's an 18+ server. People are expected to understand these basic social cues.

[Sightld2]

It's generally considered that you annoy admins at your own risk.

While the ahelps weren't exactly well worded, I hardly think two should constitute annoying an admin. I kinda agree that at least a warning should have been given first. I guess that's what the lightning smite was? But clearly it wasn't effectively communicated as such.

[Itseasytosee2me]

I stand by what I said here. Please, give a simple no man. It's all it takes! Speak! Communicate!

His status got taken away and returned, it's a fucking confusing situation man.

Ticket Three
can i get a reason? shocking me for asking antg trade and not talking is uncool of an admin
mrspyde ➡ Admins
2023-02-22T17:57:17

The player gets confused!He asks for clarification on wtf is going on and he gets...smited again.

To all admin defenders, why is giving 1 word too hard?

You are absolutely right my friend, I could have just said "no" before rejecting the ticket, and perhaps in a situation in which I wasn't handling other ahelps as well (one other of which was a antag trade request was a similarly incoherent request to be revived as an antag, rejected in the same fashion), as well as completing a ban from a previous round, I would have given the ticket more of my attention.

I could have, or I could have ignored it and he probably would have just went on with his round. But instead I did an equally valid action, which is press the reject button on the ahelp.

When he ahelps AGAIN, he clearly didn't get the message, and similarly babbles about wanting of be a traitor. We can see now pretty clearly, that this individual has no interest in playing heretic, and yet has it enabled and is trying to use it as a bartering token with me to get an antag he wants. Rejecting the ticket didn't work the first time, so I zap him a bit (a cool ~60 points of damage if I recall) he is right outside of medbay, this has not significantly impacted his round and was meant to be a humorous way of telling him: No, and don't ask again.

When he ahelps the third time I just blast him again and mute him from ahelps. He is still not dead and right infront of medbay, so he could continue with the round if he desired, and honestly I was fine to let it end there. but instead he deathgasps that he was admin abused in IC, and disconnects, I wouldn't have written the note if he hadn't IC OCCed.

[rasonj]

Ah yes I found his body and me and a plasmaman were mocking him for ock icking. As I recall you were dealing with back to back Asimov AIs requesting law changes so they could valid hunt, my new personal white whale.

[conrad]

It's an 18+ server. People are expected to understand these basic social cues.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[kieth4]

I stand by what I said here. Please, give a simple no man. It's all it takes! Speak! Communicate!

His status got taken away and returned, it's a fucking confusing situation man.

Ticket Three
can i get a reason? shocking me for asking antg trade and not talking is uncool of an admin
mrspyde ➡ Admins
2023-02-22T17:57:17

The player gets confused!He asks for clarification on wtf is going on and he gets...smited again.

To all admin defenders, why is giving 1 word too hard?

You are absolutely right my friend, I could have just said "no" before rejecting the ticket, and perhaps in a situation in which I wasn't handling other ahelps as well (one other of which was a antag trade request was a similarly incoherent request to be revived as an antag, rejected in the same fashion), as well as completing a ban from a previous round, I would have given the ticket more of my attention.

I could have, or I could have ignored it and he probably would have just went on with his round. But instead I did an equally valid action, which is press the reject button on the ahelp.

When he ahelps AGAIN, he clearly didn't get the message, and similarly babbles about wanting of be a traitor. We can see now pretty clearly, that this individual has no interest in playing heretic, and yet has it enabled and is trying to use it as a bartering token with me to get an antag he wants. Rejecting the ticket didn't work the first time, so I zap him a bit (a cool ~60 points of damage if I recall) he is right outside of medbay, this has not significantly impacted his round and was meant to be a humorous way of telling him: No, and don't ask again.

When he ahelps the third time I just blast him again and mute him from ahelps. He is still not dead and right infront of medbay, so he could continue with the round if he desired, and honestly I was fine to let it end there. but instead he deathgasps that he was admin abused in IC, and disconnects, I wouldn't have written the note if he hadn't IC OCCed.

Was this a consistent pattern of behaviour or a one off? Sometimes you're just having a day and don't particularly want to deal with heretic. If it's a sustained pattern of behaviour you probably should have noted him for that/ applied a heretic ban otherwise I don't feel that it's entirely fair to assume that he only had it on to trade.

Then again, don't take my words too personally. I'm very against using buttons like ic issue or reject ahelp ect. I'm very pro telling the player, hey. I'm going to reject this ahelp- xyz. That's just me and my method, it's fine to disagree obviously but thanks for your response.

[PengisBungholius]

losing/receiving antag status is logged, right? the admin and player have conflicting amounts of time (minutes, seconds) so the logs should be posted to see how long it really was

[saprasam]

It's an 18+ server. People are expected to understand these basic social cues.

BTFO holy shit

[Mice World]

Sometimes you're just having a day and don't particularly want to deal with heretic.

If this was the case the player should've asked for his heretic role to be removed.

[PengisBungholius]

losing/receiving antag status is logged, right? the admin and player have conflicting amounts of time (minutes, seconds) so the logs should be posted to see how long it really was

05:49:00 ACCESS Login: Mrspyde from -censored(ip/cid)- || BYOND v514.1589
05:49:00 ACCESS Mob Login: Mrspyde/(Mrspyde) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
05:49:00 GAME Mrspyde/(Mrspyde) Client Mrspyde/(Mrspyde) has taken ownership of mob Mrspyde(/mob/dead/new_player) (8, 248, 1) start area
05:52:23 GAME Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) Client Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) has taken ownership of mob Anthony Christopher(/mob/living/carbon/human) (128, 87, 2) Ordnance Office
05:52:23 GAME *no key*/(Mrspyde) *no key*/(Mrspyde) is no longer owning mob Mrspyde(/mob/dead/new_player) (8, 248, 1) start area
05:52:23 ACCESS Mob Login: Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
05:52:24 GAME Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) has gained antag datum �Heretic(/datum/antagonist/heretic).
05:53:33 ADMIN Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) has removed �Heretic antagonist status from Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher).
05:54:17 ADMIN Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) made Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) into �Heretic.
05:54:17 GAME Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) has gained antag datum �Heretic(/datum/antagonist/heretic).
05:55:44 ADMIN Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) punished Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) with Lightning bolt.
05:55:51 SAY Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) "admin abuse" (145, 93, 2) Research Division
05:57:48 ADMIN Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) checked the individual player panel for Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher).
05:57:54 SAY Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) "ai open" (93, 104, 2) Medbay Central
05:58:05 ADMIN Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) punished Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) with Lightning bolt.
05:58:06 ADMIN Rectification/(Conrad Kurtz) has muted mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) from adminhelp, admin PM and ASAY
05:58:50 WHISPER Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) "admin abuse time" (103, 110, 2) Medbay Lobby
05:58:50 EMOTE Mrspyde/(Anthony Christopher) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (103, 110, 2) Medbay Lobby

05:53:33 removed, 05:54:17 readded. About 40 seconds

[Scriptis]

Scriptis I love you bud but this is the 2nd time I've seen you be like "plwease give us some slack we arn't even being paid to be jannies uwu" if you don't want to handle the heat then don't take up the position how hard is that jesus christ.

I am allowed to complain. I am also allowed to complain about this attitude right here sir because "nobody wants to handle the heat" is why we don't have any admins on Sybil and turnover higher than an Amazon redemption center

please apply to be a sybil admin

[Qbmax32]

people who chain spam ahelps begging for tc trades deserve whatever they get

[Vekter]

Because Vekter is doing a 100% completion of posting in every single fucking ban and complaint thread.

You guys don't talk shit at Timber doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is?

[Super Aggro Crag]

Because Vekter is doing a 100% completion of posting in every single fucking ban and complaint thread.

You guys don't talk shit at Timber doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is?

yeah we do

[Tearling]

Because Vekter is doing a 100% completion of posting in every single fucking ban and complaint thread.

You guys don't talk shit at Timber doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is?

[Armhulen]

I wouldn't have probably just ahelp muted them but I'm literally no fun. lightning is fine

[iwishforducks]

Was this a consistent pattern of behaviour or a one off? Sometimes you're just having a day and don't particularly want to deal with heretic. If it's a sustained pattern of behaviour you probably should have noted him for that/ applied a heretic ban otherwise I don't feel that it's entirely fair to assume that he only had it on to trade.

Then again, don't take my words too personally. I'm very against using buttons like ic issue or reject ahelp ect. I'm very pro telling the player, hey. I'm going to reject this ahelp- xyz. That's just me and my method, it's fine to disagree obviously but thanks for your response.

in my time as admin there was consistently like a ticket every other 3 rounds where someone would be asking to trade heretic or traitor for wizard. usually it'd be the same few bunches of people just admin shopping. this kind of response is fairly common

[TheLoLSwat]

Because Vekter is doing a 100% completion of posting in every single fucking ban and complaint thread.

You guys don't talk shit at Timber doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is?

Timber putting inhuman levels of effort into most posts (with the intent to further discussion) make them a treat to read and respond to even if you disagree (most objective way that i can think of explaining it)


Rectification isnt in the wrong necessarily, but its just really petty at best and scummy at worst to do this.

[cybersaber101]

It's hard to believe someone is over 18 with a first ahelp like that. Maybe over doing it will lightning and a 'no' could have helped but ya [REJECTED] should give them a hint.

[ekaterina]

Admin already explained it using the reject and smite buttons. It's an 18+ server. People are expected to understand these basic social cues.

Gee, I didn't know autism (for example) was magically cured when you reached 18 years of age! Damn!
You can't expect all players to automatically understand social cues just because you expect them to be adults. There are conditions such as autism which would make it so they don't.

Because Vekter is doing a 100% completion of posting in every single fucking ban and complaint thread.

You guys don't talk shit at Timber doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is?

The difference is that his opinions are actually good, not just in content but also in form.

Also, as usual, awful take. We're not obliged to be nice to people who are being a pain in the ass.

Ah, yes, communicating with the player you're taking action against, the bare minimum, is "being nice".

[mstachife]

this just in, the word "rejected" means the same as the word "no".

[conrad]

Meme

This has caused me to laugh uncontrollably to the point I started crying in pain.

[CPTANT]

Holy crap, this reflects really poorly on Rectification. On the end stages of the headmin election, no less.
Absolute failure to communicate with the player, not even a single word. Not quite on the level of "wordless bans" but the same shitty underlying concept.
Doesn't once speak to the player, gives him a note. Shitmin behaviour.

Also why the fuck is Vekter posting peanuts on the thread itself?

That's not a peanut, my comment is well within what's allowed on both complaints and bans. Nothing wrong with me pointing out historical precedence.

Also, as usual, awful take. We're not obliged to be nice to people who are being a pain in the ass.

This is bringing up historical precedence:

It's generally considered that you annoy admins at your own risk.

However This is just blatantly peanutting your opinion:

Asking once and having it rejected should've been your signal that it wasn't happening. Since you asked again, you opened yourself up to being fucked with.

[Fikou]

If you chain-spam ahelps, you can get owned.

What else would he do when the admin doesn't say anything other than try to actually get a reply?

go about his round because the admin rejecting your trade isnt the end of the world stuuuupid

[NecromancerAnne]

You guys don't talk shit at Timber doing the exact same thing. I wonder what the difference is?

I get confused a lot of the time because, the way you actually speak in your additions to bans, you sound like you're directly involved in the situation or have some kind first hand involvement in it. And while what you might say could be precedent, it comes across as personal opinion based on how you phrased it. I know your coverage is broad enough that you could actually have that first hand involvement, but when you don't that is when I often get confused as to why you're chiming in the way you are.

Timber goes to great lengths to make it seem like he's actually contributing unbiased relevant information and precedent, because he usually includes references to what he's talking about and uses language that prevents that confusion as to why he is contributing his post. He shares his bias a lot more in peanut threads than the actual bans themselves, but at least he keeps it on topic.

You'd do well to re-read some of your posts and see if someone might confuse you for speaking from an opinionated stance over contributing relevant precedent and rules. Tone, phrasing and word choice are really important elements to conveying your meaning here.

we aren't customer service,

Unfortunately, Scriptis, you are in some fashion. To paraphase Hulk's words of wisdom to me one day, you're in an awkward position of customer service, guidance councillor and judge. You're having to navigate a conversation with someone who might be bringing into the situation a lot more emotion than you are, and have differing expectations. While you might not want to approach people kindly if they're a bit annoying, its probably good practice so things don't get out of hand and you wind up with a complaint, or worse.

Some of my appeals only occurred as a direct result of my poor use of tone, which was something that I, not having experience in a customer service position prior to that, didn't understand was a contributing factor in how much of a headache I was making for myself. When I started to control that (and having also entered those kinds of positions IRL), people became more willing to listen to my explanations, I had far less issues with people getting upset because they felt like I was being mean to them or dismissive, and it actually lead to a lot more success in getting players who were acting out a bit to settle down and really think about what they were doing.

Honest to god, don't take in the mantra 'you don't have to be nice'. Be professional to a fault, be utterly neutral if not somewhat positive in delivery, but don't be a pushover. There is a balancing act that will save you a lot of grief and make your work a lot easier if you can get it right.

[ekaterina]

If you chain-spam ahelps, you can get owned.

What else would he do when the admin doesn't say anything other than try to actually get a reply?

go about his round because the admin rejecting your trade isnt the end of the world stuuuupid

He didn't reject the trade, "stuuuupid", he rejected the ahelp and didn't communicate with the player at all. He then proceeded to further confuse the player by removing the heretic status and then re-applying it.

"Hi. I won't be doing this trade". Literally 7 words.

[conrad]

He didn't reject the trade, "stuuuupid", he rejected the ahelp...

You mean the ahelp about the trade?

Ekat seek professional help bruh. Or smoke some weed

[ekaterina]

He didn't reject the trade, "stuuuupid", he rejected the ahelp...

You mean the ahelp about the trade?

Yes. Haven't you seen that Timberpoes quote about how players want to be listened to?

[wesoda25]

Honest to god, don't take in the mantra 'you don't have to be nice'. Be professional to a fault, be utterly neutral if not somewhat positive in delivery, but don't be a pushover. There is a balancing act that will save you a lot of grief and make your work a lot easier if you can get it right.

Facts

Also, when you start adminning you will very, very quickly realize just how many people there are who play this game with poor reading comprehension and understanding of social cues for a multitude of reasons (on the spectrum, ESL, underage (lol)). No comment on this actual complaint (anne said everything that needs to be said anyways), but big thumbs down to those who suggest that everyone should be expected to act like their definition of an adult in ahelps.

[NecromancerAnne]

I wanna definitely echo wesoda's point about comprehension. You should really be careful to make sure your point is coming across correctly and that you're not using overly complicated words or phrases, not because you're trying to talk down to them, but so that your message isn't mistaken in some way because of how you chose to deliver it. The wrong or right word choice can mean everything.

[CPTANT]

I think the smiting was rather excessive because the second trade proposed for traitor was a lot more reasonable than the first one (trading for wizard is just dumb, come on its the most rare antag).

[ariever]

I play this game assuming everyone but me is severely mentally challenged

Also ekat every time i see you you're so angry; Is everything alright? (This is unironic) If you need to talk to someone my DMs are open my friend

[Fatal]

Your adminhelp being rejected means your trade is denied

It's not that hard to understand is it?

If you want proper responses to every little thing we get asked for (we get adminhelps and prayers like this most rounds) then that's just tough, we're not a call centre