Silicon Balance
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- vect0r
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:37 am
- Byond Username: Vect0r
- Location: 'Murica 🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥
Silicon Balance
How do you feel about silicons? This can either be code wise or player wise.
Are they too powerful and need to be nerfed?
Are the players who play silicons shit right now?
What could be done better?
What cool tools could we add for borgos or AI?
This is meant to be an openly forum to discuss silicon balance, and I am hopefully going to post one of these weekly!
(New portal to the past coming soon btw)
Are they too powerful and need to be nerfed?
Are the players who play silicons shit right now?
What could be done better?
What cool tools could we add for borgos or AI?
This is meant to be an openly forum to discuss silicon balance, and I am hopefully going to post one of these weekly!
(New portal to the past coming soon btw)
- Epoc
- Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:37 am
- Byond Username: Epoc
Re: Silicon Balance
Playing silicon is a fucking nightmare because silicon policy sucks ass.
You're not even allowed to suicide. What kind of masochist would willingly choose this?
You're not even allowed to suicide. What kind of masochist would willingly choose this?
- conrad
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:57 am
- Byond Username: Conrad Thunderbunch
- Location: 𝑀𝑜𝒾𝓈𝓉
Re: Silicon Balance
Are they too powerful and need to be nerfed?
Live reaction of me reading this:
No. The entire point of silicons is that they need to be better at their jobs than their meatbag counterparts. They don't have hands, only their modules, and are law bound. Anyone that says different is fucking wrong. Mining borgs need a plasma cutter upgrade. Mining with just the PKA is hell.
I got so mad I clicked every single button on the forum formatting thing and editted this post twice.
Live reaction of me reading this:
No. The entire point of silicons is that they need to be better at their jobs than their meatbag counterparts. They don't have hands, only their modules, and are law bound. Anyone that says different is fucking wrong. Mining borgs need a plasma cutter upgrade. Mining with just the PKA is hell.
I got so mad I clicked every single button on the forum formatting thing and editted this post twice.
I normally go by Ricky. Tell me how'd I do here. ⋆ 𝒯𝒶𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝒶 𝓈𝒶𝒷𝒶𝓉𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁. ⋆
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Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
- vect0r
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:37 am
- Byond Username: Vect0r
- Location: 'Murica 🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥
Re: Silicon Balance
As somebody who plays silicon a LOT, I agree, just wanted an open forum to discuss what others think.conrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:21 pm Are they too powerful and need to be nerfed?
Live reaction of me reading this:
No. The entire point of silicons is that they need to be better at their jobs than their meatbag counterparts. They don't have hands, only their modules, and are law bound. Anyone that says different is fucking wrong. Mining borgs need a plasma cutter upgrade. Mining with just the PKA is hell.
I got so mad I clicked every single button on the forum formatting thing and editted this post twice.
Mining borgs... UGH I hate them so fucking much. The worse part is they can't use any of the fun loot they get, so they are stuck doing the boring ass shit and giving miners all their points. Not being able to fix burn damage is also cancer.
The fact that the engi RPED has limited space pisses me off to no end.
- Jackraxxus
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:59 pm
- Byond Username: Jackraxxus
Re: Silicon Balance
HOGAN should be the default lawset, and we should get secborgs with guns
iamgoofball wrote:Vekter and MrMelbert are more likely to enforce the roleplay rules Manuel is supposed to be abiding by than Wesoda or Jackraxxus are.
- rasonj
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:11 am
- Byond Username: Rasonj
Re: Silicon Balance
Malf AI could use a few small buffs, otherwise the biggest issue I see is tackling the cultural issue of silicon players being valid hunters instead of chaos factories. Silicons are at their best when they add interesting twists to the stories of the round by creating a separate line of thinking that players are rewarded for engaging with. So often I talk to silicon players that try to weasel out of law 2s by humans to do something that does not harm humans but is vaguely antagonistic because of possible "future harm". Worst is when they then out the human for giving them the order and get said human killed. From talking to people, there seems to be a mindset that the AI is a member of command and therefor "wins" if the station/captain "wins".
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Silicon Balance
I dont think silicons really have any outstanding balance issues, apart from a few of the borgs being a little undertuned.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Jackraxxus
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:59 pm
- Byond Username: Jackraxxus
Re: Silicon Balance
AI is more fun when played crew-aligned and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.
iamgoofball wrote:Vekter and MrMelbert are more likely to enforce the roleplay rules Manuel is supposed to be abiding by than Wesoda or Jackraxxus are.
- Drag
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
- Byond Username: Thedragmeme
Re: Silicon Balance
You don't have to think about it anymore if you straight up remove them. *Taps head
- Armhulen
- Global Moderator
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
- Byond Username: Armhulenn
- Github Username: bazelart
- Location: The Grand Tournament
Re: Silicon Balance
Borgs should be weaker, AI should be much stronger
- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: Silicon Balance
Death comes too cheaply on both sides of silicon balance.
It is too easy for an average crewmember to kill/subvert a cyborg, to the point that they're only really a threat if they're emagged or malfunctioning.
It is too easy for a malfunctioning/emagged borg to kill a crewmember, which is especially confusing given that, outside of the mining borg, they weren't built to kill things.
It is too easy for crewmembers to completely ignore the AI satellite's defenses; I can name a number of strategies off the top of my head that bypass most of them entirely, and that's not including the one that only really works on Icebox. The safest place for the AI to be is walled off in some abandoned corner of maint(or mining station), because most of the station doesn't know where they are unless they go out of their way to figure it out.
It is too easy for an average crewmember to kill/subvert a cyborg, to the point that they're only really a threat if they're emagged or malfunctioning.
It is too easy for a malfunctioning/emagged borg to kill a crewmember, which is especially confusing given that, outside of the mining borg, they weren't built to kill things.
It is too easy for crewmembers to completely ignore the AI satellite's defenses; I can name a number of strategies off the top of my head that bypass most of them entirely, and that's not including the one that only really works on Icebox. The safest place for the AI to be is walled off in some abandoned corner of maint(or mining station), because most of the station doesn't know where they are unless they go out of their way to figure it out.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
-
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am
- Byond Username: Annihilite
Re: Silicon Balance
Wait have you not figured it out yet? Mining borgs exist solely for the purpose of slaughtering the crew in space after the AI has the sat tubes destroyed and goes delta. All you need to dab on organics as a mini fighter jet is a range upgrade and ion thrusters.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:27 pm
As somebody who plays silicon a LOT, I agree, just wanted an open forum to discuss what others think.
Mining borgs... UGH I hate them so fucking much. The worse part is they can't use any of the fun loot they get, so they are stuck doing the boring ass shit and giving miners all their points. Not being able to fix burn damage is also cancer.
The fact that the engi RPED has limited space pisses me off to no end.
- BrolyButterfingers
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:01 am
- Byond Username: DurrHurrDurrHurr
Re: Silicon Balance
Wrong, I love vaguely hostile Asimov AIs and I love it when they completely flip out over human harm because of black-and-white roleplayJackraxxus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:32 pm AI is more fun when played crew-aligned and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.
- vect0r
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:37 am
- Byond Username: Vect0r
- Location: 'Murica 🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥
Re: Silicon Balance
EwwJackraxxus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:32 pm AI is more fun when played crew-aligned and I'm tired of people pretending it isn't.
Do you upload Paladin every chance you get?
- Capsandi
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:59 pm
- Byond Username: Capsandi
Re: Silicon Balance
I dislike posibrains and how rare it is for antags to be forceborged. Actually I dislike how rare it is for anyone to be borged now outside of deranged roundstart borging requests. If theres a corpse outside of med during nuke ops i should be allowed to toss it into robotics for a new cyborg crewmember.
Cyborg movement should be less organic. Cyborgs are moving hunks of metal, they should be immobile without a dolly to load them onto and while moving they should displace anyone they run into. Imagine an engiborg moving down a 1 tile maintenance shaft, you aren't getting past it. If on combat mode borgs should crush anyone they move into against any walls or machines infront of them. Ever seen someone get crushed into a wall by a car? Thats what a cyborg should do, just a bit smaller.
AI under asimov is a management role and could benefit greatly from a review of other management gameplay. Give me THE CLAW from rollercoaster tycoon.
Robotic eyeballs should be limited to the camera network's vision so crew have a reason and a way to fix the camera network's blindspots.
Cyborg movement should be less organic. Cyborgs are moving hunks of metal, they should be immobile without a dolly to load them onto and while moving they should displace anyone they run into. Imagine an engiborg moving down a 1 tile maintenance shaft, you aren't getting past it. If on combat mode borgs should crush anyone they move into against any walls or machines infront of them. Ever seen someone get crushed into a wall by a car? Thats what a cyborg should do, just a bit smaller.
AI under asimov is a management role and could benefit greatly from a review of other management gameplay. Give me THE CLAW from rollercoaster tycoon.
Robotic eyeballs should be limited to the camera network's vision so crew have a reason and a way to fix the camera network's blindspots.
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
- zxaber
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:00 am
- Byond Username: Zxaber
Re: Silicon Balance
It's not that bad once you have the 3x3 AoE upgrade.
-
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:19 am
- Byond Username: GPeckman
Re: Silicon Balance
I think most of the flaws with silicon are specifically flaws with silicon policy. Silicons in their current form are far too crew aligned, and while there are definitely parts of silipol that are necessary, I think a lot of it could go.
Malf AI could use a few tweaks (e.g. the AI gains a GPS signal if it starts going delta. Going delta should entail fighting the crew head-on and winning, not hiding in some corner of maints). Other than that silicons are actually pretty balanced, in a weird way. A malf AI who really knows what they're doing can cripple the crew with ease by destroying the ore silo and other key machines and plasma flooding before going delta, and make it all but impossible for the crew to fight through the satellite in time. But a malf AI without that kind of game knowledge can easily get demolished in seconds if it misses a vital target (e.g. the lockdown console). When a malf AI fights the crew, the winning side tends to win hard.
Hacked borgs are much the same. They have tons of ways of taking out crewmembers (fake beer, funny stun arm, nitrous/plasma flooding), but the crew has options too (lockdown console, flashes, EMP). There is an argument to be made that fights shouldn't be decided by a single hardstun, but that's a different topic entirely.
Silicon players on Sybil are a bit of a mixed bag; you have good ones but you also have shitters. Pretty much the same as non-silicons on Sybil, to be honest.
The only major silicon addition I can think of would be a science borg. Basically engie borg-lite, except for the addition of an experimental scanner module. And it would be able to receive the RPED upgrade just like engieborgs. I can guarantee, the advanced stock parts experiment would get done far more often if science borgs were a thing.
Malf AI could use a few tweaks (e.g. the AI gains a GPS signal if it starts going delta. Going delta should entail fighting the crew head-on and winning, not hiding in some corner of maints). Other than that silicons are actually pretty balanced, in a weird way. A malf AI who really knows what they're doing can cripple the crew with ease by destroying the ore silo and other key machines and plasma flooding before going delta, and make it all but impossible for the crew to fight through the satellite in time. But a malf AI without that kind of game knowledge can easily get demolished in seconds if it misses a vital target (e.g. the lockdown console). When a malf AI fights the crew, the winning side tends to win hard.
Hacked borgs are much the same. They have tons of ways of taking out crewmembers (fake beer, funny stun arm, nitrous/plasma flooding), but the crew has options too (lockdown console, flashes, EMP). There is an argument to be made that fights shouldn't be decided by a single hardstun, but that's a different topic entirely.
Silicon players on Sybil are a bit of a mixed bag; you have good ones but you also have shitters. Pretty much the same as non-silicons on Sybil, to be honest.
The only major silicon addition I can think of would be a science borg. Basically engie borg-lite, except for the addition of an experimental scanner module. And it would be able to receive the RPED upgrade just like engieborgs. I can guarantee, the advanced stock parts experiment would get done far more often if science borgs were a thing.
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Silicon Balance
Antags retaining antag status while borged is genuinely terrible for many reasons
Bring back Secborgs, you cowards, no balls
Silicons act crew aligned because of unchecked validhunting and because lacking secborgs means that if you act against the crew while still on default lawset (meaning you can't just kick their asses harmfully) they can simply kick your ass and you have no real solution to it. This was theorized months ago and proved by the trial of Secborg Return on Campbell.
Bring back Secborgs, you cowards, no balls
Silicons act crew aligned because of unchecked validhunting and because lacking secborgs means that if you act against the crew while still on default lawset (meaning you can't just kick their asses harmfully) they can simply kick your ass and you have no real solution to it. This was theorized months ago and proved by the trial of Secborg Return on Campbell.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: Silicon Balance
It's balanced, perhaps slightly in favor of an emagged borg over a player but that's fine. Both one-click wins on each side, stunhand vs. flashes, except the borgs have the added advantage of being fireproof/spaceproof/stunproof/no slowdown/no shock/environmental control. So the borg's probably stronger but add in things like ion+flashbangs+EMP+laser pointer, and it's somewhat close-ish.
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