Local admin abuses a lowpop shift nut

[EmpressMaia]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Once upon a midnight dreary, manuel players, weak and weary. Along comes shockshard to save the day! with his endless administrative antagonistic fray!

Here Shock shard spawns in as the traitor acting captain of the shift, gives himself prison equipment? and sets him name to 'unknown'.

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09:49:46	GAME	ShockShard/(ghost) Client ShockShard/(ghost) has taken ownership of mob the ghost(/mob/dead/observer)	(95, 123, 2)	Space
09:50:00	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Richard Creech) checked antagonists.		
09:53:59	ACCESS	Mob Login: ShockShard/(Richard Creech) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human		
09:53:59	GAME	ShockShard/(Richard Creech) Client ShockShard/(Richard Creech) has taken ownership of mob Richard Creech(/mob/living/carbon/human)	(57, 37, 2)	Prison Rec Room
09:53:59	ADMIN	*no key*/(Richard Creech) changed the equipment of ShockShard/(Richard Creech) to Prisoner.		
09:54:17	GAME	ShockShard/(Richard Creech) Richard Creech name changed from Richard Creech to Unknown	(57, 37, 2)	Prison Rec Room

Shortly after, shock shard spawns himself in a security radio headset? along with tons of pumpkins! for some reason!

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09:54:47	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/radio/headset/headset_sec		
09:55:08	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:10	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:12	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:13	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:14	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:15	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:17	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:18	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:19	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:20	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:33	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:34	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:35	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:36	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:37	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:38	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin

Right after, the game automatically deadmins him due to being an antagonist. to which he responds which setting himself back into admin!

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09:56:17	ADMIN	ShockShard deadmined via auto-deadmin config.		
09:56:17	GAME	ShockShard/(Unknown) has gained antag datum �Traitor(/datum/antagonist/traitor).		
09:56:24	TRAITOR	ShockShard/(Unknown) has received a potential objective: /datum/traitor_objective/destroy_item/low_risk (Name: Steal the bartender's shotgun and destroy it, TC: 1, Progression: 5032, Time of creation: 45413.5) | Forced: 0		
09:56:24	TRAITOR	ShockShard/(Unknown) missed /datum/traitor_objective/sabotage_machinery/trap (Name: Sabotage the department protolathe (Science), TC: 0, Progression: 2126.04, Time of creation: 45340.5)		
09:56:26	ADMIN	ShockShard re-adminned themselves.

then shock changes himself into a heretic and re-admins himself!

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09:56:49	ADMIN	ShockShard deadmined via auto-deadmin config.		
09:56:49	GAME	ShockShard/(Unknown) has gained antag datum �Heretic(/datum/antagonist/heretic).		
09:56:55	ADMIN	ShockShard re-adminned themselves.

Later he spawns himself a fountain pen to make a codex cicatrix!

Code: Select all

11:08:21	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Mauga) created a /obj/item/pen/fountain

By my count, he killed 7 people in a shift with 14 people total!

EDIT: he also spawned in trash to make his rusted herretic blade

Code: Select all

10:04:00	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/trash/syndi_cakes

EDIT EDIT: Round 203176

[iwishforducks]

btw thanks for the walkthrough timber, well written

edit: was referring to your posts on the complaint but this is also well written, so thanks yet again

[Timberpoes]

Being able to crunch through and process long and/or involved log dives is about the only actual skill a headmin needs. They can yolo anything else.

[conrad]

Yep, I was very wrong. Dang.

[WineAllWine]

I wanted to bash out a quick treatise on admins playing as an antag for an event. TLDR it's fine. I'm making this not as a comment on whatever specifically happened here

Admins can play the role of DMs in a round. We can try and make the game as fun as possible for the players. Sometimes this might be easy. There's no antags and a few ghosts? Spawn a space dragon. Makes the round more interesting, player gets to be a big scary dragon, conflict, drama, stories.
Sometimes we make an event that is more customised than just pressing the 'spawn antag' button. Maybe a custom made antag, or a CC official or a die of fate that flies around the station trying not to be caught. For some of these, we might pick a player to play the role. For instance, I recently made an SCP that was unkillable and flung it at the station to contain it. (this made a great story. It escaped containment almost immediately and was later killed by our very own player headmin)
Sometimes we need more control and so we need to take the role ourselves. An easy example of this: Traders. I've played it lots, I've seen other admins do it where we'll dock in the ferry shuttle and offer normally unobtainable items for money. Admins need to play this role as they have the best idea of what antags are around, how powerful each item is and how much it will affect the round and make it more interesting.
That's an easy example, it's just an NPC, not an antag, right? So let's take a scenario of an event where the admin plays an antag: I'll make a super-space dragon where instead of breathing fire it breathes maxcap explosions. This is a cool thing to throw at the crew, the dragon shows up somewhere, maybe taunst the crew, blows something up then hides in space for 15 minutes whil the crew repair and prepare for the next attack. A player could not be trusted with this role But we're trying to make the round more interesting in a fair and balanced way. We might have fun doing it, sure. And that's fine.
Much like real TTRPG it's reasonable for the DM to be a monster.

[iwishforducks]

But something strikes me as inherently off about admin buttons being used in that way. Does anyone else feel the same way or would this example be an acceptable use of admin buttons?

there’s cultural-admin consequences by answering this question, and there’s cultural-admin reasons that events can’t be complained (something as a more “community” aligned person I so heavily disagree with)- ultimately admins should be DMs, pushing buttons to make the rounds more enjoyable for players. DMs shouldn’t be afraid to push buttons if they believe they’re making the round more enjoyable. so here’s the question: were their goals to make the round more enjoyable for the players, or more enjoyable for themselves? well that line is muddied the moment they’re a part of the shift, ESPECIALLY when they spawn themselves in and spawn themselves items. it’s hard to truly tell what the intentions are; I’m hardly a believer in intentions: So to me muddying the line is enough to be a conduct breach in itself.

[WineAllWine]

In my opinion this is an unacceptable use of admin powers and I'd probably suggest deadminning. (how do you pronounce that word? De-adminning or dead-minning. I flip-flop on it)

[TheLoLSwat]

I wanted to bash out a quick treatise on admins playing as an antag for an event. TLDR it's fine. I'm making this not as a comment on whatever specifically happened here

Admins can play the role of DMs in a round. We can try and make the game as fun as possible for the players. Sometimes this might be easy. There's no antags and a few ghosts? Spawn a space dragon. Makes the round more interesting, player gets to be a big scary dragon, conflict, drama, stories.
Sometimes we make an event that is more customised than just pressing the 'spawn antag' button. Maybe a custom made antag, or a CC official or a die of fate that flies around the station trying not to be caught. For some of these, we might pick a player to play the role. For instance, I recently made an SCP that was unkillable and flung it at the station to contain it. (this made a great story. It escaped containment almost immediately and was later killed by our very own player headmin)
Sometimes we need more control and so we need to take the role ourselves. An easy example of this: Traders. I've played it lots, I've seen other admins do it where we'll dock in the ferry shuttle and offer normally unobtainable items for money. Admins need to play this role as they have the best idea of what antags are around, how powerful each item is and how much it will affect the round and make it more interesting.
That's an easy example, it's just an NPC, not an antag, right? So let's take a scenario of an event where the admin plays an antag: I'll make a super-space dragon where instead of breathing fire it breathes maxcap explosions. This is a cool thing to throw at the crew, the dragon shows up somewhere, maybe taunst the crew, blows something up then hides in space for 15 minutes whil the crew repair and prepare for the next attack. A player could not be trusted with this role But we're trying to make the round more interesting in a fair and balanced way. We might have fun doing it, sure. And that's fine.
Much like real TTRPG it's reasonable for the DM to be a monster.

very good point but i dont think its related since DMs use their powers to create the best experience for players, and not to spawn in their own character to playermin antag (along with spawning items to assist in antagging)

[rasonj]

But something strikes me as inherently off about admin buttons being used in that way. Does anyone else feel the same way or would this example be an acceptable use of admin buttons?

I like the good faith qualification you have applied to many other rulings and I think it works here. Admins pushing buttons in good faith that it will improve the round for others should be protected. From what I have seen, this example does not meet that classification. Instead of the needs of the many, this seems to have been done for the benefit of one.

[Turbonerd]

Just play the game normally. This is definitely not an admin event.

[Timberpoes]

I pronounce it dead-min but it's de-admin. De-admin doesn't flow nicely though. I do the same with read-min vs. re-admin; we be read-minning people.

[Striders13]

I pronounce it dead-min but it's de-admin. De-admin doesn't flow nicely though. I do the same with read-min vs. re-admin; we be read-minning people.

what if I can't read

[Armhulen]

oops accidentally posted on the real thread

"tc traded themselves into heretic"
I think this is what actually irks me, and probably the ONLY thing that irks me. Because you're using admin powers to bypass the game's antag selection. Wouldn't it be kinda fucked up if I logged on every day for a week and said no to 50 players asking for tc trades and then "tc traded myself" the antag I want every time I rolled antag? When I think about it like that, self TC trading seems REALLY unfair because of the self interest in play and the further out there the TC trade the more it looks like you're allowing the trade because you're the trader and recipient at the same time. Why not trade traitor for "CALL gib( TRUE, TRUE) ON /mob/living/carbon/human WHERE ckey"? And it's like, nobody would REALLY care about a lowpop murderbone, because it happens, but the ruleset could not have run.

[Armhulen]

I guess being an antag while playing is also just a bit too close to self interest as well. I wouldn't be an antag while adminning, but the closer we get to "just having that info available" the closer we get to the question of whether you want an admin who plays while they administrate and no admin at all on lowpop hours

[Timberpoes]

I pronounce it dead-min but it's de-admin. De-admin doesn't flow nicely though. I do the same with read-min vs. re-admin; we be read-minning people.

what if I can't read

Player vote headmin.

[kieth4]

I pronounce it dead-min but it's de-admin. De-admin doesn't flow nicely though. I do the same with read-min vs. re-admin; we be read-minning people.

what if I can't read

Player vote headmin.

Gonna de admin timber by accident because I can't read

[conrad]

But something strikes me as inherently off about admin buttons being used in that way. Does anyone else feel the same way or would this example be an acceptable use of admin buttons?

See that's kinda the part where I was definitely wrong.

Self inserting into the round is fine. The spawning of pumpkins to start up the machine is cool. Pushing buttons is cool. The story about a very old skeleton prisoner planting stuff is very cool.

Going spinning_skull_with_guitar_riff_at_the_end.mp4 and self trading for heretic, regardless of whether the ruleset allows for it or not, is the sort of thing that goes against what you learn as a candidate, regardless of trainer.

I feel deranged to only have noticed this after more logs were posted in the original thread. It didn't occur to me that what happened was a self-trade.

Personally, admins should just deadmin when they join rounds. I deadmin when I join a round. It's better to bite the bullet and have no admins online, in my opinion, than to risk breaking player trust.

[Timberpoes]

It's such a difficult line to tread.

If "playmin while antag" was an option in the secrets panel, it'd be in the >95% chance of admin complaint section.

I still think playminning in general is kinda dumb and that the servers would live just fine if an admin was playing and not adminned, though. We have so many tools now to alert admins to key tickets via relays, urgent ahelps, Discord supportmin pings etc.

There's already a general exception allowing playing admins to re-admin up and handle obvious stuff if they see it.

They already can't do anything but ahelp tickets involving them.

Regardless of whatever historic rulings are dredged up, current conduct is crystal fucking clear on the matter:

Don't handle an adminhelp that involves you. Admins can't involve themselves as both an admin and player in a matter. This also means adminhelping like any other player would if you want to report an issue. Another admin will be needed to help you.

If you've opened a ticket during a round, do not readmin until after the ticket has been resolved. If a ticket about you has been opened, discussion regarding it should be kept to ahelps only.

And the chances of an incident involving you directly or indirectly are gonna be that much more high as you become a larger individual percentage of the total station population. And as the population goes up, the expectation someone will be adminning goes up with it as does the risk of Secret Hidden Metaknowledge as more players are around discussing stuff.

You could just play botbus or pingbus open on Discord to see any ahelps sent without any of the metainfo.

Alternatively we could support "play but seeing tickets" on the code side. Would be super easy. Barely an inconvenience. New +PLAYMIN permission plus a playmin verb that drops you to +PLAYMIN. Let +PLAYMIN see and respond to tickets, and let them full readmin if they need to handle it more from there. They'd still appear on adminwho and it would enforce minimum information playminning.

[Armhulen]

yea

The whole "one moment it's an admin event, the next moment it's me rolling antag" is just talking yourself into doing some bad things with admin powers

[Kubisopplay]

Imho you can playmin as an antagonist and still do it for betterment of the round. Ofc it kinda brings the question "why would you restrict yourself to antag, instead of doing totally custom thing that is designed to be a challenge/sign/opportunity for the crew. I'm not gonna try to decree where this situation was on the spectrum of admin abuse, because I'm tired enough with my own life.

Also about that "excising cancer doesn't allow it to grow", i truly wonder what would be the reaction if we applied that mindset to bans.

[Fatal]

Imho you can playmin as an antagonist and still do it for betterment of the round. Ofc it kinda brings the question "why would you restrict yourself to antag, instead of doing totally custom thing that is designed to be a challenge/sign/opportunity for the crew. I'm not gonna try to decree where this situation was on the spectrum of admin abuse, because I'm tired enough with my own life.

Also about that "excising cancer doesn't allow it to grow", i truly wonder what would be the reaction if we applied that mindset to bans.

I know terry would have about half the player count on it than it does

Let's do it

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Got a half-assed explanation of what happened from em when this happened, thought "oh that doesn't sound that bad"
Go on forums, see that they gave themselves heretic
Read timber's post, see that this is a continuous occurrance

Bro this isn't just cancer this is metastatic cancer
"oops I fucked up" shouldn't apply to "hehe i tc traded with myself to get the antag i wanted" "and then killed people with that antag that i wanted"
I'm all for people learning from their mistakes, but I think that there's a fine line between what's acceptable as a mistake and what's "you've gone a lil too far bud you need to stop", and I think this definitely reads as "you've gone a lil too far".

Admins have all the power in the world to run wacky, stupid, and occasionally even unfun events on lowpop
I do not understand why some take that opportunity and instead decide to just get antag of choice and kill people while adminned after self-inserting into the round (as an admin)
do something moderately more creative and you don't get beaten over the head for it

[TheLoLSwat]

Imho you can playmin as an antagonist and still do it for betterment of the round. Ofc it kinda brings the question "why would you restrict yourself to antag, instead of doing totally custom thing that is designed to be a challenge/sign/opportunity for the crew.

Why would you ever need to playmin as an antagonist? Also,

Admin then romps around lowpop attacking/killing and even round removing some people using their antag status (pretty much invalidates any idea this was a valid event, cascading backwards to multiple conduct breaches)
Admin comments in dsay about their difficulty ascending (pretty much unvalidates any idea this was a valid event, cascading backwards to multiple conduct breaches)

about that "excising cancer doesn't allow it to grow", i truly wonder what would be the reaction if we applied that mindset to bans.

its almost like admins are held to a higher standard because they get god powers... This is like wondering what would happen if you applied sec policy mindset to greytide.



demote to candymin or deadmin depending on how truthful he was in reporting it, which i trust this headmin team to judge since they are not lemickey

[NecromancerAnne]

I spoke to Shock after it happened in the manuelcord. I told them to be honest to the heads of staff and lay down what had happened. I also re-iterated to them the reasons why they shouldn't have done that. I wasn't in the round, but I was at least timely enough to have seen people discussing the matter and knew something against conduct had occurred just from the tone.

I will also say that if Maia had not been the one to make the admin complaint, one definitely was coming from a player in that round, and Timber had done the work that player already was doing. I had someone approach me about the situation for advice.

This is not acceptable on any front, and this situation should be a wakeup call to anyone currently involved in training the present and past generation of admins either on Manuel or across the board. Make sure everyone is on the same page, do some refreshers, and ensure everything is above board. Shock needs to probably go back to trial and be monitored closely. When these events occur, there should be an opportunity for everyone, not just the person who broke conduct, to learn something from the event and understand how not to conduct themselves in their role going forward.

[MooCow12]

Out of all the things that admin did, remove spawning in trash for heretic blade from that list. Having to deal with the arbitrary requirement of what is and isnt trash is silly.

[BONERMASTER]

You guys were absolutely wetting your noodles over that other admin that blasted the shit out of that low-pop killer, which to me was hilarious and absolutely deserved, If I was that admin, I'd have teleported that SOB into a meatgrinder and fed his remains to Ian or the goat.

Now this one shows up who is actually self-antagging and using admin tools to give himself tons of advantages with which he then proceeds to murderbone all of the 4 other players that were taking part in that shift, and you're going to tell me "hey man, it's not so bad, it's just a phase bro, we had a good talk him and me together yo, he understands " NO NO NO you wanted to be all ham-fisted over that hilarious guy that did nothing wrong, now there is no backing out of this one! You can't just pick and choose when you're going to enforce a standard, either everyone get's treated equally, or that standard doesn't exist to begin with, simple as that!


With lawful regards
-BONERMASTER

[NoxVS]

I pronounce it dead-min but it's de-admin. De-admin doesn't flow nicely though. I do the same with read-min vs. re-admin; we be read-minning people.

You’ve earned a permanent spot at the bottom of all my future headmin vote rankings just for this

[Shellton(Mario)]

This is what I call "A not good moment"

[Fikou]

starsector

[AsbestosSniffer]

I do not care for Starsector

[Drag]

I pronounce it dead-min but it's de-admin. De-admin doesn't flow nicely though. I do the same with read-min vs. re-admin; we be read-minning people.

You’ve earned a permanent spot at the bottom of all my future headmin vote rankings just for this

Idk why you're saying this when you're wrong

[Capsandi]

I pronounce it "sauté their brain matter admin" and "jk ur admin again lol"

[confused rock]

Being able to crunch through and process long and/or involved log dives is about the only actual skill a headmin needs. They can yolo anything else.

headmins also need to know the fucking RULES
I had a hulk succumb at -5 health (because I had to crit them because they were an aggressive hulk) while i was running to get a medkit and Hulkamania BANNED me (or maybe he denied my appeal I forget but hes a fucking dumbass)

[confused rock]

dont give him a secnd chance don't make him trialmin fucking KILL tg admins are a roulette wheel as is it would be better if the weak were culled

[EmpressMaia]

I regret making this peanut

[iwishforducks]

what (edit: to confused rock. this is the second time i've been ninja posted in this thread)

[sinfulbliss]

But something strikes me as inherently off about admin buttons being used in that way. Does anyone else feel the same way or would this example be an acceptable use of admin buttons?

Playing as an ordinary player and using your admin powers to give yourself things is way out of line IMO, unless it’s some very unique event but even then it’s iffy because you should’ve given that role to a player.

Spawning in 2 loneops because you want the round you’re playing to end is terrible. Every other player has to wait for it to end naturally, why should you be able to decide it ends just because you’re playminning? I could understand it if they weren’t an active part of the round, if they were just an observer, because then the decision would be in the interest of the crew and not themselves, but they were playing.

Even if you don’t negatively impact a single person, even if it’s a 10pop lowpop shift and you’re playminning with a friend spawning things to improve your round, it’s completely out of line. If you’re an ordinary player you shouldn’t be cheating in the game to make it more fun for yourself.

[Turbonerd]

Being able to crunch through and process long and/or involved log dives is about the only actual skill a headmin needs. They can yolo anything else.

headmins also need to know the fucking RULES
I had a hulk succumb at -5 health (because I had to crit them because they were an aggressive hulk) while i was running to get a medkit and Hulkamania BANNED me (or maybe he denied my appeal I forget but hes a fucking dumbass)

Stop inserting yourself into this peanut. No one cares.

[sinfulbliss]

Also about that "excising cancer doesn't allow it to grow", i truly wonder what would be the reaction if we applied that mindset to bans.

If a player somehow found a way to cheat in items via an admin panel, and used that to make rounds more fun for themselves, they would NOT be given a second chance, they would be permabanned.

It is fortunate admins are given a second life in issues like this since the first life is deadminning instead of a straight permaban.

[Turbonerd]

It took some time for ATHATH to get permabanned for using exploits. There's probably some cases where someone using an exploit wouldn't get immediately permabanned, though the line is very thin depending on what they do with the exploit.

[sinfulbliss]

That's an easy example, it's just an NPC, not an antag, right? So let's take a scenario of an event where the admin plays an antag: I'll make a super-space dragon where instead of breathing fire it breathes maxcap explosions. This is a cool thing to throw at the crew, the dragon shows up somewhere, maybe taunst the crew, blows something up then hides in space for 15 minutes whil the crew repair and prepare for the next attack. A player could not be trusted with this role But we're trying to make the round more interesting in a fair and balanced way. We might have fun doing it, sure. And that's fine.
Much like real TTRPG it's reasonable for the DM to be a monster.

This is a good point, but man is this a fine line. Because what could happen is the majority of players might NOT enjoy the event, but clearly you had a blast blowing maxcaps into the station as the dragon, and now because it was yourself and not another ghost player in control, it starts to look a lot like just making yourself antag to have fun at the expense of the crew.

Which it wouldn’t be! But it starts to look like it. I can only see this being valid for extremely experienced admins that have run tons of events already and can be trusted, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be doing these things in the interest of the crew and not themselves. It feels really unnecessary — if you wanted to run an event and there are no ghosts on, or you can’t trust players with the role, it would make sense to either ask if another admin was interested in taking it or just run it at another time.

Guns dealer is much different because they’re not really an antag, they’re just selling stuff.

[AwkwardStereo]

the greatest crime is making the admin team look bad not even 3 months from the last successful complaint that made the admin team look bad

[sinfulbliss]

I’ll offer another example of someone who I consider one of the best ever TG event runners because of some of the wildly insane high octane nations events they’d run, Paxilmaniac.

On a few of them they had actually spawned themselves in as some sort of Centcom-commander-style-marine along with, if i’m not mistaken, other admins who were also playminning. They had deagles and guns and weapons and definitely shot and killed some players, I think I got crit also. But the event was so fucking fun it didn’t matter whatsoever, could you imagine disallowing an admin from the fun of being a part of their own event that took tons of hard work and planning to create? That’s some sort of weird chastity cage that admins definitely don’t need.

The difference is all the other players also had deagles and machineguns and syndicate grade armor. The admin centcom fighters weren’t given an instagib rifle or something. So if I had to put it down to a principle I’d say “adminning while antag is okay as long as you’re not giving yourself unfair advantages other players don’t have, at their expense.”

[vect0r]

I’ll offer another example of someone who I consider one of the best ever TG event runners because of some of the wildly insane high octane nations events they’d run, Paxilmaniac.

On a few of them they had actually spawned themselves in as some sort of Centcom-commander-style-marine along with, if i’m not mistaken, other admins who were also playminning. They had deagles and guns and weapons and definitely shot and killed some players, I think I got crit also. But the event was so fucking fun it didn’t matter whatsoever, could you imagine disallowing an admin from the fun of being a part of their own event that took tons of hard work and planning to create? That’s some sort of weird chastity cage that admins definitely don’t need.

The difference is all the other players also had deagles and machineguns and syndicate grade armor. The admin centcom fighters weren’t given an instagib rifle or something. So if I had to put it down to a principle I’d say “adminning while antag is okay as long as you’re not giving yourself unfair advantages other players don’t have, at their expense.”

My Principle is "If the admins are doing something to make the game fun for the players, they are doing good"

[WineAllWine]

That's an easy example, it's just an NPC, not an antag, right? So let's take a scenario of an event where the admin plays an antag: I'll make a super-space dragon where instead of breathing fire it breathes maxcap explosions. This is a cool thing to throw at the crew, the dragon shows up somewhere, maybe taunst the crew, blows something up then hides in space for 15 minutes whil the crew repair and prepare for the next attack. A player could not be trusted with this role But we're trying to make the round more interesting in a fair and balanced way. We might have fun doing it, sure. And that's fine.
Much like real TTRPG it's reasonable for the DM to be a monster.

This is a good point, but man is this a fine line. Because what could happen is the majority of players might NOT enjoy the event, but clearly you had a blast blowing maxcaps into the station as the dragon, and now because it was yourself and not another ghost player in control, it starts to look a lot like just making yourself antag to have fun at the expense of the crew.

Which it wouldn’t be! But it starts to look like it. I can only see this being valid for extremely experienced admins that have run tons of events already and can be trusted, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be doing these things in the interest of the crew and not themselves. It feels really unnecessary — if you wanted to run an event and there are no ghosts on, or you can’t trust players with the role, it would make sense to either ask if another admin was interested in taking it or just run it at another time.

Guns dealer is much different because they’re not really an antag, they’re just selling stuff.

You're right, it's an extremely fine line; but I'm coming at this from the point of view of a senior experienced admin. I would not advise my candidates that this is a thing you can do

[Zybwivcz]

My Principle is "If the admins are doing something to make the game fun for the players, they are doing good"

If The Admins Are Doing Something, They Probably Shouldn't Be.

[Fikou]

the greatest crime is making the admin team look bad not even 3 months from the last successful complaint that made the admin team look bad

real

[datorangebottle]

09:56:49 ADMIN ShockShard deadmined via auto-deadmin config.
09:56:49 GAME ShockShard/(Unknown) has gained antag datum �Heretic(/datum/antagonist/heretic).
09:56:55 ADMIN ShockShard re-adminned themselves.

admincomplaint.png (24.49 KiB) Viewed 4314 times

This reminds me of the time when an admin was "testing" clock cult by spawning themselves in, forcing the gamemode, and giving themselves a ton of extra resources.

[vect0r]

09:56:49 ADMIN ShockShard deadmined via auto-deadmin config.
09:56:49 GAME ShockShard/(Unknown) has gained antag datum �Heretic(/datum/antagonist/heretic).
09:56:55 ADMIN ShockShard re-adminned themselves.

admincomplaint.png
This reminds me of the time when an admin was "testing" clock cult by spawning themselves in, forcing the gamemode, and giving themselves a ton of extra resources.

Changeling rain?
Yeah, they got deadminned
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=13010

[datorangebottle]

Yeah, that one.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Man fuck this. I love admin events. Give me more admin events. I don't care if some of them turn out poopy.

Gimme some wackass shit, intervene in my rounds, smite me at random, give me weird guns that barely work, spawn it items that exist in code that nobody's ever fuckin seen. I want admins to make shit thoroughly fuckin' weird every time I play.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Seriously I want admins to absolutely fuck my shit up on a constant basis and I'll be 100% here for it let's fucking go