Local admin abuses a lowpop shift nut

[EmpressMaia]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Once upon a midnight dreary, manuel players, weak and weary. Along comes shockshard to save the day! with his endless administrative antagonistic fray!

Here Shock shard spawns in as the traitor acting captain of the shift, gives himself prison equipment? and sets him name to 'unknown'.

Code: Select all

09:49:46	GAME	ShockShard/(ghost) Client ShockShard/(ghost) has taken ownership of mob the ghost(/mob/dead/observer)	(95, 123, 2)	Space
09:50:00	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Richard Creech) checked antagonists.		
09:53:59	ACCESS	Mob Login: ShockShard/(Richard Creech) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human		
09:53:59	GAME	ShockShard/(Richard Creech) Client ShockShard/(Richard Creech) has taken ownership of mob Richard Creech(/mob/living/carbon/human)	(57, 37, 2)	Prison Rec Room
09:53:59	ADMIN	*no key*/(Richard Creech) changed the equipment of ShockShard/(Richard Creech) to Prisoner.		
09:54:17	GAME	ShockShard/(Richard Creech) Richard Creech name changed from Richard Creech to Unknown	(57, 37, 2)	Prison Rec Room

Shortly after, shock shard spawns himself in a security radio headset? along with tons of pumpkins! for some reason!

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09:54:47	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/radio/headset/headset_sec		
09:55:08	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:10	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:12	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:13	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:14	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:15	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:17	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:18	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:19	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:20	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin/blumpkin		
09:55:33	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:34	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:35	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:36	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:37	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin		
09:55:38	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/food/grown/pumpkin

Right after, the game automatically deadmins him due to being an antagonist. to which he responds which setting himself back into admin!

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09:56:17	ADMIN	ShockShard deadmined via auto-deadmin config.		
09:56:17	GAME	ShockShard/(Unknown) has gained antag datum �Traitor(/datum/antagonist/traitor).		
09:56:24	TRAITOR	ShockShard/(Unknown) has received a potential objective: /datum/traitor_objective/destroy_item/low_risk (Name: Steal the bartender's shotgun and destroy it, TC: 1, Progression: 5032, Time of creation: 45413.5) | Forced: 0		
09:56:24	TRAITOR	ShockShard/(Unknown) missed /datum/traitor_objective/sabotage_machinery/trap (Name: Sabotage the department protolathe (Science), TC: 0, Progression: 2126.04, Time of creation: 45340.5)		
09:56:26	ADMIN	ShockShard re-adminned themselves.

then shock changes himself into a heretic and re-admins himself!

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09:56:49	ADMIN	ShockShard deadmined via auto-deadmin config.		
09:56:49	GAME	ShockShard/(Unknown) has gained antag datum �Heretic(/datum/antagonist/heretic).		
09:56:55	ADMIN	ShockShard re-adminned themselves.

Later he spawns himself a fountain pen to make a codex cicatrix!

Code: Select all

11:08:21	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Mauga) created a /obj/item/pen/fountain

By my count, he killed 7 people in a shift with 14 people total!

EDIT: he also spawned in trash to make his rusted herretic blade

Code: Select all

10:04:00	ADMIN	ShockShard/(Unknown) created a /obj/item/trash/syndi_cakes

EDIT EDIT: Round 203176

[iwishforducks]

So far there are 0 Sinful posts I have fully read. It's just not possible.

it's good to have you back sinful

[sinfulbliss]

it doesn't make it any worse either, and punishing admins every time they hit a miss means they'll never be brave enough to try to swing for a home run.

basically you're strangling infants in a crib.

also the fact you claim it's a miss when there is documented evidence in the request of at least 1 person significantly enjoying the round

Our beloved headcoder and dedicated maintainer of this game we all love -- I find such a perspective an agreeable one. Indeed, admins having to worry about being crucified in a public fashion over an event gone wrong would be a tragedy, not only because it would decrease their frequency, but because it makes this volunteer position unattractive for others to enroll in.

We'd ought to make sure that is not something that's happening here, as it very well could be. Let's examine the facts. Three of the four people whom ShockShard killed, expressed great displeasure in this outcome. This might be reason to consider it a miss, as you have suggested, but perhaps it is simply a case of players upset that they died. I believe this is certainly true. They are just upset that they died. However, dying to an antagonist spawned by the game is a form of disillusionment we can consider par for the course; whereas dying to an antagonist who incurred significant advantage due to the fact they had access to an admin panel, which was shown by Timber to have been used in a malicious manner, creates a disillusionment that we might find unnatural, unmerited, and undeserved.

Good grief, throw up the thesaurus you swallowed and speak plainly.
I did try to ask ChatGPT to simplify it but it couldnt do a good job so now I have to try.
It would be bad if admins have to worry about running events, and we want people to want to be admins.
People were upset when Shockshard did what he did.
People are more upset because he used his special admin powers.

So far there are 0 Sinful posts I have fully read. It's just not possible.

Ahelp, ahelp, ahelp. NRP shitters should be permabanned, not defended by the amdins.

i hope this was more readable for you ashlyn

[sinfulbliss]

So far there are 0 Sinful posts I have fully read. It's just not possible.

it's good to have you back sinful

it's good to. uh. good to uh. uh. hm.

[Turbonerd]

Nice double posting.

[oranges]

i'm not reading your posts because I know you are ontologically evil

[Dax Dupont]

This was not an event, he has done stuff like this over multiple rounds, honestly good riddance.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Always a shame, but admins have been shitcanned for less egregious misuse of their tools so its likely fair.

[Drag]

Always an unfortunate outcome. I feel like Shocked would have benefited more from being admined after a thousand or so player hours(when I was admined((not biased))), this whole situation is wack to me.

[TheLoLSwat]

yeah it sucks and this admin probably wouldn’t have done it if they had more hours but…

- cheating is cheating
- we have a lot of blind faith in admins over simple things like not showing an insane amount of bias, cheating shouldnt even be something a player would think about from an admin in a round
- this admin betrayed that trust in a huge way
- they shouldnt be an admin (right now)

i dont think some people itt understand how serious cheating is just in general or that someone they are fond of would do it, but good on this headmin term

[conrad]

yeah it sucks and this admin probably wouldn’t have done it if they had more hours but…

- cheating is cheating
- we have a lot of blind faith in admins over simple things like not showing an insane amount of bias, cheating shouldnt even be something a player would think about from an admin in a round
- this admin betrayed that trust in a huge way
- they shouldnt be an admin (right now)

i dont think some people itt understand how serious cheating is just in general or that someone they are fond of would do it, but good on this headmin term

This are very valid points. However, I think it's important to bear in mind that there are three factors of importance when admins are considered. I learned that from my candi period so far:

- You need to be level headed. That means not being rude, crass, and tone deaf all the time.
- You need to be trustworthy. You get progressively more and more keys to the kingdom, and you're not supposed to misuse them. This is where Shockshard fucked up.
- You need to have good faith. This is where your notes are taken into consideration. And this is where the point of contention lies when dealing with Shockshard's situation.

I don't think Shockshard acted in bad faith. But shockshard broke admin conduct severely. Hence why they've been deadminned. My point here is to raise awareness that this isn't every admin. Admins have discussions about maintaining good standards all the time. But admins are human (I think), and sometimes mistakes happen. There are some very bad faith people in this community. They don't get to be admins.

[Armhulen]

If Shockshard was more honest and forthputting of ALL the events that happened in this round, their good faith in general would have likely kept them on the team, but they would definitely get demoted

[CMDR_Gungnir]

- You need to have good faith. This is where your notes are taken into consideration. And this is where the point of contention lies when dealing with Shockshard's situation.

I don't think Shockshard acted in bad faith. But shockshard broke admin conduct severely. Hence why they've been deadminned. My point here is to raise awareness that this isn't every admin. Admins have discussions about maintaining good standards all the time. But admins are human (I think), and sometimes mistakes happen. There are some very bad faith people in this community. They don't get to be admins.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Slipping on a banana peel is a mistake. Baking a cake is not. There were a LOT of steps along the way where they should have gone "What I'm doing isn't right, I should stop" and they didn't.

Would we go "Well this guy says he made a mistake when he cheated, so we won't ban him"? No, we wouldn't. He'd still be permabanned.

It's fucking wild that the worst that happened when an ADMIN CHEATS, the ones we're SUPPOSED TO TRUST AND HAVE FAITH IN, wouldn't have even been deadminned if he'd just admitted everything he did, instead of only part of it. It should be a harsher penalty when the people we're supposed to be able to trust and have faith in, do it.

I'd much more easily forgive an admin who got salty and used admin tools on someone who killed them in round, than one who goes out of their way to cheat.

The former is a mistake made out of a surge of emotion. The latter is a long series of decisions made under a level head.

[iwishforducks]

cmdr is right and i think it’s wild we’re all acting very sympathetic. clearly shock didn’t have the maturity to be an admin. maturity takes quite a while to gain so i wish them the best in regards to that, but in no way do i hope they’ll become admin again soon. someone accused shock of becoming an admin because of nepotism, and with their low hours and immaturity it makes me question if that’s true. i don’t care to start a witch hunt, nor would i want to, so i hope there’s been INTERNAL considerations about who their admin trainer was and why they were accepted onto the team.

[conrad]

If Shockshard was more honest and forthputting of ALL the events that happened in this round, their good faith in general would have likely kept them on the team, but they would definitely get demoted

Yeah there was a lot of deception about the retelling. So much so that I got fooled, hoodwinked, flabergasted even.

[Armhulen]

so i hope there’s been INTERNAL considerations about who their admin trainer was and why they were accepted onto the team.

you convinced me on the rest but admin trainers will always end up picking fuckup candidates given enough time. people don't show signs until it's too late, i wouldn't punish for a candidate that turned out sour. i picked watermelon. i picked wesoda, two great admins. i also picked archaicanarchist, who ended up waiting for other admins to log off before massively griefing rounds and covering it up. he seemed perfectly fine until we found out.

Another case, mothblocks picked san, a total G. they also picked mooshimi, who didn't make the cut. this happens all the time. we're a server with really high quality admin picks generally, compared to garrys mod servers and even other servers in the ss13 community (LOL, tgmc, LOL, fulpstation, LMAO, paradise, LOL, skyrat) but no system will be perfect no matter how many eyes we put on someone and screenings we do.

[Armhulen]

if i was detrainered for picking anarchicarchanist, the admins i picked woulda never existed

[iwishforducks]

so i hope there’s been INTERNAL considerations about who their admin trainer was and why they were accepted onto the team.

you convinced me on the rest but admin trainers will always end up picking fuckup candidates given enough time. people don't show signs until it's too late, i wouldn't punish for a candidate that turned out sour. i picked watermelon. i picked wesoda, two great admins. i also picked archaicanarchist, who ended up waiting for other admins to log off before massively griefing rounds and covering it up. he seemed perfectly fine until we found out.

Another case, mothblocks picked san, a total G. they also picked mooshimi, who didn't make the cut. this happens all the time. we're a server with really high quality admin picks generally, compared to garrys mod servers and even other servers in the ss13 community (LOL, tgmc, LOL, fulpstation, LMAO, paradise, LOL, skyrat) but no system will be perfect no matter how many eyes we put on someone and screenings we do.

oh for sure. theres zero reason to take action against anyone else (especially the trainer). doing so would be incredibly fucking dumb. like you said these things just Happen. but a quick internal ducks in a row check should definitely be considered and the responses of “we hope you come back” makes me raise my eyebrow.

[Timberpoes]

Getting a new game admin requires two things.

1. An interested trainer willing to sponsor the new admin and 2. (usually) three sets of unanimous votes from the headmin team.

The trainer asks for permission to train the player, then one unanimous headmin vote to allow the trainer to train them, one unanimous headmin vote to allow them to go from candidate to trial and a final unanimous headmin vote allowing them to go from trial to game admin.

Not that nepotism is impossible, but it would require being friends with the host-, player- and admin-vote headmins to the point where none of them would veto any promotion stages. Chances are high that any admin that passes trial did so on merit to avoid so many veto moments during their candidacy and trial periods.

I'll happily reveal that ShockShard applied in September last year, their application was put on ice due to too few hours, but they put in consistent activity over the following months and were approved by Rave/San/Spook's term in late November. Another consideration to adminning them was ShockShard picking up a positive note from another admin in that time too.

The term that oversaw ShockShard's candidacy and promotions was San/Spook/Rave, with Hulk as their trainer. viewtopic.php?f=40&t=33347 brought up no issues or concerns during trial review.

I can't see any indications of any procedural impropriety at any stage of the process. By all accounts ShockShard gained admin and passed their trial on merit. Then consequently shit the bed on the topic of spawning onto the station z-level with admin powers. A noob trap that many admins have fallen into before and many will fall into after.

[Armhulen]

And I said this earlier at some point but the noob trap really is "you're doing an event with your spawned character and then you roll something, and start to play that out, and then your event blurs into your traitor round"

[Timberpoes]

Justice fell into the same trap last term.

When you're on a station z-level as a PC with full admin powers, it's very easy to cross the line into cheating. Once you leave the CentCom z-level the lines start to get awfully blurry.

[Unsane]

Shock is kinda playful in ahelp and generally helpful to me. Sad to see them gone

[Domitius]

I hope they make their way back to the community soon. Good person and I really enjoy how well articulated they are.

Wish them the best of luck after all this sorry business blows over.

[Scriptis]

Statistically speaking, someone's eventually going to shoot themselves in the foot. Or, in this case, blow both legs of with a live grenade.

This isn't solely indicative of "we should more closely vet candidates." It's mostly indicative of a matter of fact: somebody's always going to fuck up, no matter how hard you try.

From where I'm standing, trainers and headmins ought to recruit more admins. They ought to lower the barrier to entry in the name of filling openings. The consequence of this is that you increase the likelihood of somebody blowing their legs off; but it's better than having no admins at all. We've got excellent procedure here, this thread is proof of it: admin fucks up hard, gets scrutinized, agrees that what they did was unacceptable, gets demoted, receives an amiable send-off from the admin team, goes to greener pastures.

I think we're doing alright.

We should get more admins and do this more often.

apply to be a sybil admin

[Domitius]

Statistically speaking, someone's eventually going to shoot themselves in the foot. Or, in this case, blow both legs of with a live grenade.

This isn't solely indicative of "we should more closely vet candidates." It's mostly indicative of a matter of fact: somebody's always going to fuck up, no matter how hard you try.

From where I'm standing, trainers and headmins ought to recruit more admins. They ought to lower the barrier to entry in the name of filling openings. The consequence of this is that you increase the likelihood of somebody blowing their legs off; but it's better than having no admins at all. We've got excellent procedure here, this thread is proof of it: admin fucks up hard, gets scrutinized, agrees that what they did was unacceptable, gets demoted, receives an amiable send-off from the admin team, goes to greener pastures.

I think we're doing alright.

We should get more admins and do this more often.

apply to be a sybil admin

Very well put!

[Annihilite111]

Please get more shitmins the drama is great content

[Misdoubtful]

so i hope there’s been INTERNAL considerations about who their admin trainer was and why they were accepted onto the team.

you convinced me on the rest but admin trainers will always end up picking fuckup candidates given enough time. people don't show signs until it's too late, i wouldn't punish for a candidate that turned out sour. i picked watermelon. i picked wesoda, two great admins. i also picked archaicanarchist, who ended up waiting for other admins to log off before massively griefing rounds and covering it up. he seemed perfectly fine until we found out.

Another case, mothblocks picked san, a total G. they also picked mooshimi, who didn't make the cut. this happens all the time. we're a server with really high quality admin picks generally, compared to garrys mod servers and even other servers in the ss13 community (LOL, tgmc, LOL, fulpstation, LMAO, paradise, LOL, skyrat) but no system will be perfect no matter how many eyes we put on someone and screenings we do.

oh for sure. theres zero reason to take action against anyone else (especially the trainer). doing so would be incredibly fucking dumb. like you said these things just Happen. but a quick internal ducks in a row check should definitely be considered and the responses of “we hope you come back” makes me raise my eyebrow.

People make mistakes that isn't a reason for them to permanently exit the community and never return to it in any capacity.

Its a shame whenever anyone decides to leave the community over things that have occurred, even if its for their own benefit to be taking that break.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

so i hope there’s been INTERNAL considerations about who their admin trainer was and why they were accepted onto the team.

you convinced me on the rest but admin trainers will always end up picking fuckup candidates given enough time. people don't show signs until it's too late, i wouldn't punish for a candidate that turned out sour. i picked watermelon. i picked wesoda, two great admins. i also picked archaicanarchist, who ended up waiting for other admins to log off before massively griefing rounds and covering it up. he seemed perfectly fine until we found out.

Another case, mothblocks picked san, a total G. they also picked mooshimi, who didn't make the cut. this happens all the time. we're a server with really high quality admin picks generally, compared to garrys mod servers and even other servers in the ss13 community (LOL, tgmc, LOL, fulpstation, LMAO, paradise, LOL, skyrat) but no system will be perfect no matter how many eyes we put on someone and screenings we do.

oh for sure. theres zero reason to take action against anyone else (especially the trainer). doing so would be incredibly fucking dumb. like you said these things just Happen. but a quick internal ducks in a row check should definitely be considered and the responses of “we hope you come back” makes me raise my eyebrow.

People make mistakes that isn't a reason for them to permanently exit the community and never return to it in any capacity.

Its a shame whenever anyone decides to leave the community over things that have occurred, even if its for their own benefit to be taking that break.

I won't repeat my entire point of "Slipping on a banana peel is a mistake, baking a cake is not" because I've said that spiel three times now.

What I will say is consider that he quit for a couple years. Came back, and INSTANTLY made an Admin Application. Was told "Not enough hours" and went ham on playing. And then immediately quit playing, and only ever adminned.

And then when he gets deadminned for being a cheating piece of shit, he immediately peace-out's from the entire community.

This was never a man who was acting in good faith. And I'm still in awe that all of you are going "IF HE HAD JUST BEEN HONEST ABOUT HOW MUCH HE CHEATED, HE WOULD PROBABLY JUST HAVE BEEN DEMOTED TO TRIAL AGAIN " as though that fucking matters.

The double standards on display here are fucking disgusting and rapidly deteriorating my respect and faith for our admin team. If all of you are defending that, then what are you doing that we don't know about?

[Archie700]

I think perspective matters here, let's compare this to another admin who recently got in trouble for abusing admin tools, Justice12354.

Justice got absolutely hammered as well in the peanut, but they ended up apologising completely for the abuse, from spawning a gun to stun people to the shittalk in deadchat. They took complete responsibility for the events that occured and was willing to face judgement. This, along with the consideration that it was a one-time thing, was a factor in the headline "merely" demoting them to admincandidate.

Shockshard, on the other hand, downplayed their admin self-antag in reporting to the admins , was oddly silent on the matter in the actual thread, and was found to have been abusing admin powers in the past. (See this.)

It should be known that if Shockshard were to have a chance to escape deadmining, they would have had a much higher bar to clear than Justice in order to even be demoted to candidate. And they would absolutely have to regain a lot more trust.

I don't think saying that they would just be demoted to candidate if they were more forthcoming would help at this moment, as it is it would just frustrate people since they had completely broke the trust of the playerbase with their actions and it would take a very convincing justification from the headline to retain them. That being said, it isn't helpful to have them harassed off or say good riddance either.

It's already done.

[BeeSting12]

snipped quotes

People make mistakes that isn't a reason for them to permanently exit the community and never return to it in any capacity.

Its a shame whenever anyone decides to leave the community over things that have occurred, even if its for their own benefit to be taking that break.

I won't repeat my entire point of "Slipping on a banana peel is a mistake, baking a cake is not" because I've said that spiel three times now.

What I will say is consider that he quit for a couple years. Came back, and INSTANTLY made an Admin Application. Was told "Not enough hours" and went ham on playing. And then immediately quit playing, and only ever adminned.

And then when he gets deadminned for being a cheating piece of shit, he immediately peace-out's from the entire community.

This was never a man who was acting in good faith. And I'm still in awe that all of you are going "IF HE HAD JUST BEEN HONEST ABOUT HOW MUCH HE CHEATED, HE WOULD PROBABLY JUST HAVE BEEN DEMOTED TO TRIAL AGAIN " as though that fucking matters.

The double standards on display here are fucking disgusting and rapidly deteriorating my respect and faith for our admin team. If all of you are defending that, then what are you doing that we don't know about?

I might be wrong here but I don't think Misdoubtful was implying shock should ever come back as an admin, just that they want them to continue being part of the community. I see why shock is taking a break - it's probably not good for the mental health to read all this shit. I've adminned with people who are fun to hang out but shouldn't be in a position of power. I would hate seeing them leave the community fully over getting deadminned, although in some cases that does happen.

I will say that they should've made it more clear in the staffing log as to the reason he was taken off the admin team, says he "was retired" which is ambiguous enough that I could see an unwitting headmin years down the line giving him an admin position back.

The whole honesty line is getting on my nerves too, what he did was straight up cheating repeated across several rounds. That's a pattern and I don't care if we get a full confession and apology, should still be deadminned. I would've had more respect for shock if he did apologize in the thread though.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

snipped quotes

People make mistakes that isn't a reason for them to permanently exit the community and never return to it in any capacity.

Its a shame whenever anyone decides to leave the community over things that have occurred, even if its for their own benefit to be taking that break.

I won't repeat my entire point of "Slipping on a banana peel is a mistake, baking a cake is not" because I've said that spiel three times now.

What I will say is consider that he quit for a couple years. Came back, and INSTANTLY made an Admin Application. Was told "Not enough hours" and went ham on playing. And then immediately quit playing, and only ever adminned.

And then when he gets deadminned for being a cheating piece of shit, he immediately peace-out's from the entire community.

This was never a man who was acting in good faith. And I'm still in awe that all of you are going "IF HE HAD JUST BEEN HONEST ABOUT HOW MUCH HE CHEATED, HE WOULD PROBABLY JUST HAVE BEEN DEMOTED TO TRIAL AGAIN " as though that fucking matters.

The double standards on display here are fucking disgusting and rapidly deteriorating my respect and faith for our admin team. If all of you are defending that, then what are you doing that we don't know about?

I might be wrong here but I don't think Misdoubtful was implying shock should ever come back as an admin, just that they want them to continue being part of the community..

That's part of the problem, though. He shouldn't be. If a Player cheated, they would be banned, fuck off, come back with a vouch maybe.

Someone gets adminned and uses that to cheat, and it's "Aww, it's sad to see them go " is still massive double standards.

Also, Misdoubtful has said, before, in the complaint itself, that if he'd been honest about the extent, they would've looked at alternatives.

[BeeSting12]

snipped quotes

People make mistakes that isn't a reason for them to permanently exit the community and never return to it in any capacity.

Its a shame whenever anyone decides to leave the community over things that have occurred, even if its for their own benefit to be taking that break.

I won't repeat my entire point of "Slipping on a banana peel is a mistake, baking a cake is not" because I've said that spiel three times now.

What I will say is consider that he quit for a couple years. Came back, and INSTANTLY made an Admin Application. Was told "Not enough hours" and went ham on playing. And then immediately quit playing, and only ever adminned.

And then when he gets deadminned for being a cheating piece of shit, he immediately peace-out's from the entire community.

This was never a man who was acting in good faith. And I'm still in awe that all of you are going "IF HE HAD JUST BEEN HONEST ABOUT HOW MUCH HE CHEATED, HE WOULD PROBABLY JUST HAVE BEEN DEMOTED TO TRIAL AGAIN " as though that fucking matters.

The double standards on display here are fucking disgusting and rapidly deteriorating my respect and faith for our admin team. If all of you are defending that, then what are you doing that we don't know about?

I might be wrong here but I don't think Misdoubtful was implying shock should ever come back as an admin, just that they want them to continue being part of the community..

That's part of the problem, though. He shouldn't be. If a Player cheated, they would be banned, fuck off, come back with a vouch maybe.

Someone gets adminned and uses that to cheat, and it's "Aww, it's sad to see them go " is still massive double standards.

Also, Misdoubtful has said, before, in the complaint itself, that if he'd been honest about the extent, they would've looked at alternatives.

To me at least I see it as removing the person from areas that they have problems in. If someone proves they can't handle playing security, they eat a security job ban. Shock proved he can't handle being adminned, so he gets deadminned. There is precedent for banning admins for misconduct, but I always saw that as a slap on the wrist in comparison to being deadminned. ChangelingRain is the only person I know of who received a permanent ban for admin misconduct, and hers was to an absolutely massive extent including abusing remote privileges as a headmin.

Players who cheat are proving themselves to be incapable of playing the game without cheating, so it makes sense to remove them from the server entirely. Especially when most forms of player level cheating are difficult to investigate and prove if the players are smart about it (metacomms, aimbot, etc). It is somewhat concerning that the headmins would've considered alternatives if shock had been honest given the extent of his abuse. I don't know what alternatives there are that would make me trust him in an admin role afterwards.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

To me at least I see it as removing the person from areas that they have problems in. If someone proves they can't handle playing security, they eat a security job ban. Shock proved he can't handle being adminned, so he gets deadminned. There is precedent for banning admins for misconduct, but I always saw that as a slap on the wrist in comparison to being deadminned. ChangelingRain is the only person I know of who received a permanent ban for admin misconduct, and hers was to an absolutely massive extent including abusing remote privileges as a headmin.

Players who cheat are proving themselves to be incapable of playing the game without cheating, so it makes sense to remove them from the server entirely. Especially when most forms of player level cheating are difficult to investigate and prove if the players are smart about it (metacomms, aimbot, etc). It is somewhat concerning that the headmins would've considered alternatives if shock had been honest given the extent of his abuse. I don't know what alternatives there are that would make me trust him in an admin role afterwards.

See, those are fair points. I don't agree with them, as I said, I think someone who quits for a couple years, comes back, immediately applies for admin, gets rejected due to Time, goes ham, and then immediately stops playing and only ever admins after they get it, cheats with it, and then peaces out of the community when deadminned for cheating; is a very clear sign of bad faith, and the level of egregious abuse that should warrant "Good riddance."

I'm just very concerned because of how all the admins are going "It's a shame " "They just made a mistake " seeing Misdoubtful say that if he was honest about the extent, alternatives would've been looked into, and that the Staffing Log says that Shock "was retired". It feels very hush hush keep it on the downlow that they even had to do anything about it.

If the admins are okay with this, what else are they okay with? What are they doing that we don't know about? The Complaint for it doesn't seem to be coming (especially after he's already deadminned) but a friend of mine was telling me a story about how they made a bunch of clones of themself, with Genetics (and the help of a Changeling) and a Chrono Legionnaire showed up. The Chrono's job was, supposedly, to eradicate the clones (because apparently the only kind of clones that could exist come from other timelines, right?), eradicated them, and then disappeared. When I searched the logs for it, it was Shockshard who made it. They also made themselves into the Chrono. And what they said in dead chat before was "Time to game on the clones" never actually said a word or RP'd with anyone at all. And only said "RIP (name)" after it was done. No other interaction with the person than that.

And that really rubs me the wrong way. That's not just "not an event". That's not just "making yourself the star of the event". That's seeing players doing something fun and just...ruining it, without interacting with it.

[cybersaber101]

people are too spiteful.

[NecromancerAnne]

If Shockshard was more honest and forthputting of ALL the events that happened in this round, their good faith in general would have likely kept them on the team, but they would definitely get demoted

That's kind of why I told them to go be honest with their trainer and the headmins ASAP, just so that when it inevitably came to light what happened they might have a chance. Sadly they missed a lot of crucial details, and didn't relay their full history of this behavior.

[kieth4]

To me at least I see it as removing the person from areas that they have problems in. If someone proves they can't handle playing security, they eat a security job ban. Shock proved he can't handle being adminned, so he gets deadminned. There is precedent for banning admins for misconduct, but I always saw that as a slap on the wrist in comparison to being deadminned. ChangelingRain is the only person I know of who received a permanent ban for admin misconduct, and hers was to an absolutely massive extent including abusing remote privileges as a headmin.

Players who cheat are proving themselves to be incapable of playing the game without cheating, so it makes sense to remove them from the server entirely. Especially when most forms of player level cheating are difficult to investigate and prove if the players are smart about it (metacomms, aimbot, etc). It is somewhat concerning that the headmins would've considered alternatives if shock had been honest given the extent of his abuse. I don't know what alternatives there are that would make me trust him in an admin role afterwards.

See, those are fair points. I don't agree with them, as I said, I think someone who quits for a couple years, comes back, immediately applies for admin, gets rejected due to Time, goes ham, and then immediately stops playing and only ever admins after they get it, cheats with it, and then peaces out of the community when deadminned for cheating; is a very clear sign of bad faith, and the level of egregious abuse that should warrant "Good riddance."

I'm just very concerned because of how all the admins are going "It's a shame " "They just made a mistake " seeing Misdoubtful say that if he was honest about the extent, alternatives would've been looked into, and that the Staffing Log says that Shock "was retired". It feels very hush hush keep it on the downlow that they even had to do anything about it.

If the admins are okay with this, what else are they okay with? What are they doing that we don't know about? The Complaint for it doesn't seem to be coming (especially after he's already deadminned) but a friend of mine was telling me a story about how they made a bunch of clones of themself, with Genetics (and the help of a Changeling) and a Chrono Legionnaire showed up. The Chrono's job was, supposedly, to eradicate the clones (because apparently the only kind of clones that could exist come from other timelines, right?), eradicated them, and then disappeared. When I searched the logs for it, it was Shockshard who made it. They also made themselves into the Chrono. And what they said in dead chat before was "Time to game on the clones" never actually said a word or RP'd with anyone at all. And only said "RIP (name)" after it was done. No other interaction with the person than that.

And that really rubs me the wrong way. That's not just "not an event". That's not just "making yourself the star of the event". That's seeing players doing something fun and just...ruining it, without interacting with it.

Ya, alternatives are considered really. I don't think it's fair to go "only admins get these alternatives!!" When we have players with like 20+ notes that have been on the edge of a permaban for like 3 years. We've forgiven people for metacoms and a whole slew of other dogshit behaviour..

I'm not entirely sure what you want to be said rlly, I feel that at this point you're just being spiteful. The admins saying this are people who themselves discussed their behaviour and there were huge discussions by everyone about fhis sfuff. They knew what they did was bad but it's still sad to see someone fall, like, when someone seems cool but then all this bad shut is brought up it's like damn. It's sad that this happened because they were cool!

And I mean, as long as there are no reports wtf do you want us to do. I'm not a psychic I don't even play manuel. Report it complaint it leave feedback do smth instead of coping about them having a history really(that wasn't ever brought up)

[Timberpoes]

For what it's worth I don't think being more honest about it would have changed my mind.

This was a reckless disregard for appropriate use of admin tools across an entire shift.

I don't think people that have to be taught not to admin trade themselves to a different antag; not to spawn in items to help them antag; and not to low pop killing spree as an antag that shouldn't ordinarily appear at that pop level, should be admins in general.

It may make others sleep better at night saying if only ShockShard came clean about the extent of their abuse they'd probably just be demoted. But the fact of the matter is they used their admin powers to cheat as a player.

I don't think every admin should have a single free pass to blatantly cheat in that way and remain an admin.

Justice used their admin powers to cheat as an admin. They were playing cards on the station z-level to vibe and their fuckup was relatively small in comparison.

While both involved an admin spawning themself on the station z-level, spawning in items and killing at least one player there are so many genuine differences in execution, motive and outcome that they're kinda apples and oranges.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

See, those are fair points. I don't agree with them, as I said, I think someone who quits for a couple years, comes back, immediately applies for admin, gets rejected due to Time, goes ham, and then immediately stops playing and only ever admins after they get it, cheats with it, and then peaces out of the community when deadminned for cheating; is a very clear sign of bad faith, and the level of egregious abuse that should warrant "Good riddance."

I'm just very concerned because of how all the admins are going "It's a shame " "They just made a mistake " seeing Misdoubtful say that if he was honest about the extent, alternatives would've been looked into, and that the Staffing Log says that Shock "was retired". It feels very hush hush keep it on the downlow that they even had to do anything about it.

The real secret coverup here is that most admins only know like 10-15 other admins and have no clue who the rest are or what their deal is right now, let alone their player history.

[Pandarsenic]

For what it's worth I don't think being more honest about it would have changed my mind.

This was a reckless disregard for appropriate use of admin tools across an entire shift.

I don't think people that have to be taught not to admin trade themselves to a different antag; not to spawn in items to help them antag; and not to low pop killing spree as an antag that shouldn't ordinarily appear at that pop level, should be admins in general.

...

I don't think every admin should have a single free pass to blatantly cheat in that way and remain an admin.

...

While both involved an admin spawning themself on the station z-level, spawning in items and killing at least one player there are so many genuine differences in execution, motive and outcome that they're kinda apples and oranges.

I'm pretty much in the same boat here. This is honestly such a bad example that it's nearly flipped me, on its own, from my long-held view that it's fine for admins to play while admin'd up because they shouldn't be using their powers or trying to be a big part of the round anyway.

Uhangi was before my time so this is high, high up in the worst and most brazen abuses of admeme powers I've ever seen. If I were a shotcaller on this, I genuinely cannot conceive of anything that would excuse this to the point of being like "yeah, slap on the wrist." Our protagonist isn't on the do-not-admin list afaik, but they're going to have a colossal struggle if they ever reapply after an incident like this. Who as a headmin could possibly see an application from them and have no questions to ask?

Part of why I had historically felt it was fine for admins to playmin is because I had never seen this sort of atrocious misuse of the admin powers, privileges, and knowledge, so it's pretty gross to me to see someone go, repeatedly and pretty well shamelessly it seems, against so many and so vital parts of the letter and spirit of admin conduct.

And last, I guess, I can't believe at all that shockshard did this innocently, because of the attempts to evade fully detailing the nature and extent of the abuses seems (perhaps I am cynical to say) like the acts of someone who knows they did wrong, not someone who is blissfully ignorant of the very notion that this is aboos.

[sinfulbliss]

What I will say is consider that he quit for a couple years. Came back, and INSTANTLY made an Admin Application. Was told "Not enough hours" and went ham on playing. And then immediately quit playing, and only ever adminned.

My favorite admins in-game are almost exclusively people who PLAYED A LOT, even if they completely stopped playing once they became admin, they have that giant backing of playtime and experience that means they know what's up. They understand the server culture, they get what stuff is chill and what stuff is not chill beyond just the rules, and they can enforce/button push based on that deeper understanding.

They're also way better to deal with in ahelps because you both know what's going on more generally so you can have a more natural conversation rather than one that devolves into rules lawyering some specific clause of a policy that may or may not be in question. 300 hours is really low, it just seems odd to be applying for admin after you've been around for like a couple months with 5 hours a day, it's hard to believe it's out of a love of the community and wanting to contribute and seems more like you just want power or something to be totally honest, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

[Misdoubtful]

people are too spiteful.

This is comical when you consider that some people in this thread actively go out of their way to trash talk people and admins they don't like in OOC and on meta-discords. And that some go on personal spirit quests for their vendettas.

It's also comical that some assume that 'considering the alternatives' means they would get a slap on the wrist. And that considering the alternatives guarantees those alternatives happening. Them being honest wouldn't have changed my mind either, but I at least would have been willing to actually consider the possibilities. We all would have if there a solid reason for us to.

I'm not here to joyfully put my teammates faces into the dirt. None of us are sitting in this role gleefully waiting to shit on people.

What's the saying?

When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.

Some people in this thread feel like they love dragging people through the mud as much as possible.

[sinfulbliss]

I think it is healthy for there to be a bit of outrage at this sort of thing happening, I don’t think people soapboxing about the intentions and bad faith and standards and whatever else is a bad thing.

It gets spiteful when you say people can’t be sad about it. Like when someone I enjoy playing with gets permabanned, even if they deserve it, of course I’d be a bit sad just because of the fact I enjoyed playing with them and then they’re permabanned. I think it’s the same with admins, maybe they enjoyed having the person around in their circle and now they’re gone. That is fine to say.

[Kubisopplay]

What I will say is consider that he quit for a couple years. Came back, and INSTANTLY made an Admin Application. Was told "Not enough hours" and went ham on playing. And then immediately quit playing, and only ever adminned.

My favorite admins in-game are almost exclusively people who PLAYED A LOT, even if they completely stopped playing once they became admin, they have that giant backing of playtime and experience that means they know what's up. They understand the server culture, they get what stuff is chill and what stuff is not chill beyond just the rules, and they can enforce/button push based on that deeper understanding.

They're also way better to deal with in ahelps because you both know what's going on more generally so you can have a more natural conversation rather than one that devolves into rules lawyering some specific clause of a policy that may or may not be in question. 300 hours is really low, it just seems odd to be applying for admin after you've been around for like a couple months with 5 hours a day, it's hard to believe it's out of a love of the community and wanting to contribute and seems more like you just want power or something to be totally honest, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

Wait you have favourite admins?

[Misdoubtful]

Yeah tell us about these favorite admins

[conrad]

I think it is healthy for there to be a bit of outrage at this sort of thing happening, I don’t think people soapboxing about the intentions and bad faith and standards and whatever else is a bad thing.

It gets spiteful when you say people can’t be sad about it. Like when someone I enjoy playing with gets permabanned, even if they deserve it, of course I’d be a bit sad just because of the fact I enjoyed playing with them and then they’re permabanned. I think it’s the same with admins, maybe they enjoyed having the person around in their circle and now they’re gone. That is fine to say.

Sinful did a good, nay, excellent take (SOUND THE BELLS!). The only interactions I had with Shockshard were positive, admin chatting when I was a candidate. Hearing this is not something that leaves me outraged, it leaves me fucking disappointed that I put trust and good faith on someone who turned out to be a cheater abusing the role they achieved in the community.

That wouldn't change how I treat them as a person, or as a player. I think it's important to compartmentalise these things. As an admin, I'd treat them as a cheater, and the fact they were deadminned once the investigation was done is correct. As a person and a player, they are so many degrees of separation away from the that I don't think I care that much. For people who had a longer time with them, and had positive interactions with them, it's entirely fair to be sad to see them go.

Gungnir you've been spilling vitriol over this nonstop, which leads me to believe you have something personal against Shockshard. This nepotism thing really doesn't check out and rubs off on me wrong as something misconstrued. I was also admined with historically low recorded hours. Am I also a nepotist cheater? I'm gonna be surprised is someone is convinced of this projection and carry it over other admins, since there's a lot of effort put to train people not to do what Shockshard did.

[BeeSting12]

Yeah, it's like when my favorite supervisor at the retail store I worked at got fired. I loved working with him, but he was stealing literally hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise and cash from the registers. He deserved to be fired, but I was a little sad because I enjoyed working with him. I was more sad that he was a two faced thief than that he got fired and I couldn't hang out with him.

[sinfulbliss]

Wait you have favourite admins?

Of course I do… I would have capped myself by now if I played 3000 hours all under admins I disliked. In fact I’ve liked the vast majority of the admins on Sybil now that I think about it, there’s just the odd really bad ticket or disagreement with another that inspires the forumposting.

Yeah tell us about these favorite admins

This is a difficult question because it would simultaneously leave admins out and I don’t want to hurt feelings. But naming a random three (there are many more) I like on Sybil: Scriptis, Trexter, Wubli.

The latter is not as active but I firmly believe there is some ontological voodoo shit chaining Wubli to Sybil and when she finally leaves it behind the server will spiral into the sun and explode as its last defiant act.

Five great retiremins for good measure: Knira, Chimpston, Stereo, Bdudy, Wesoda.
The sheer amount of time the first three put into adminning lowpop is completely insane. It can only be explained by either a love for the game or an obsession, both of which make you a good admin in my book. Bdudy had some of the best well-mannered tickets I have ever had the pleasure of responding to, and wesoda is like some wise old sage.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

In fact I’ve liked the vast majority of the admins on Sybil

sinful likes me, yippeee


I will continue to turn him into a catboy and call proc on him to make him wag

[sinfulbliss]

In fact I’ve liked the vast majority of the admins on Sybil

sinful likes me, yippeee


I will continue to turn him into a catboy and call proc on him to make him wag

I feel sort of like the drunk uncle that watched their nephew grow up. I remember when you were an uncoloredname polcon poster talkin about your ambitions for the Big Leagues .

(Your response fits perfectly into this analogy by the way)

[Omega_DarkPotato]

I feel sort of like the drunk uncle that watched their nephew grow up. I remember when you were an uncoloredname polcon poster talkin about your ambitions for the Big Leagues :tm:.

dude I remember when I was an uncoloredname polcon poster too
i still remember my polcon heritage
shitposting trash takes alongside the general pack of weirdos and degens pre rule 11
shoutout to all the ones we lost along the way because they were incapable of not saying racial slurs...

[datorangebottle]

yo that's a pretty nice point you just made, but you're a [insert racial slur of choice].

USER WAS FLANNED FOR THIS POST.

[kinnebian]

yo that's a pretty nice point you just made, but you're a [insert racial slur of choice].

USER WAS FLANNED FOR THIS POST.

i agree though

USER WAS PANNED FOR THIS POST.