In this thread we come up with ways to end racism

[dirk_mcblade]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I can't think of a better way to get back at a racist from something like two years ago than to break forum rules.

[AlamoTurtle]

I wanted to mention this as well. People change a LOT in a short span of time. People are adaptable. If the situation changes, so will others. You can't hold someone's actions TEN (10) YEARS AGO as a basis for the PRESENT. Hell, less than ONE year is enough for someone to change, given the circumstances! People change. Dying on this hill because nostalgia from a decade ago isn't the way you change.

To be fair, this goes both ways - there are a lot of people who will castrate someone for saying something reprehensible years ago even after they've apologized for it.

I just fucking despise cancel culture in general, honestly. There's situations that call for it, namely with the whole pedo stuff, but petty shit like "he was mean to people he never understood a decade ago" is just sad and begging for conflicts that have been resolved a decade ago.

[Vekter]

Absolutely. Under the pretence of creating a pleasant and inclusive environment, some of these people bully everyone around them into around them into "walking on eggshells" and actually create an unpleasant environment.

I wasn't going to respond to you, but this specific line hit a chord with me.

For what it's worth, I already feel like I have to walk on eggshells for fear of being ejected by MSO if I say the wrong thing or go too far against what he thinks is acceptable. I feel like I can't speak my mind because there's exactly one person with unchecked power that can just boot me if I say something he doesn't like.

[dirk_mcblade]

I'm not really in the camp that "ligger" shouldn't be allowed, but I do get where they're coming from. I don't think anyone is saying that you can't be species-ist against lizards IC, just that you should come up with a word that isn't directly tied to an IRL slur. It's the future, get creative. Call them geckos, skinks, leather-skins, something like that.

And if it's presumed that the IC universe is a continuation of real world today to one a few hundred years in the future, then why would it not be a matter of space law and IC word policing that people can't drop hard Ls because everyone in that universe agrees with you (well not you but people who are against that word) regarding that? Nanotrasen is a PC corporation with indentured servant nonhumans so you can be corpofascist so long as you don't offend other humans. Seems to me like this is an IC issue with an IC solution and this whole matter could be sidestepped.

[dirk_mcblade]

Absolutely. Under the pretence of creating a pleasant and inclusive environment, some of these people bully everyone around them into around them into "walking on eggshells" and actually create an unpleasant environment.

I wasn't going to respond to you, but this specific line hit a chord with me.

For what it's worth, I already feel like I have to walk on eggshells for fear of being ejected by MSO if I say the wrong thing or go too far against what he thinks is acceptable. I feel like I can't speak my mind because there's exactly one person with unchecked power that can just boot me if I say something he doesn't like.

MSO booted you because you threatened to leak admin-bus or whatever that channel was.

[Vekter]

Absolutely. Under the pretence of creating a pleasant and inclusive environment, some of these people bully everyone around them into around them into "walking on eggshells" and actually create an unpleasant environment.

I wasn't going to respond to you, but this specific line hit a chord with me.

For what it's worth, I already feel like I have to walk on eggshells for fear of being ejected by MSO if I say the wrong thing or go too far against what he thinks is acceptable. I feel like I can't speak my mind because there's exactly one person with unchecked power that can just boot me if I say something he doesn't like.

MSO booted you because you threatened to leak admin-bus or whatever that channel was.

No, that was deserved, I'm not complaining about that.

[dirk_mcblade]

Absolutely. Under the pretence of creating a pleasant and inclusive environment, some of these people bully everyone around them into around them into "walking on eggshells" and actually create an unpleasant environment.

I wasn't going to respond to you, but this specific line hit a chord with me.

For what it's worth, I already feel like I have to walk on eggshells for fear of being ejected by MSO if I say the wrong thing or go too far against what he thinks is acceptable. I feel like I can't speak my mind because there's exactly one person with unchecked power that can just boot me if I say something he doesn't like.

MSO booted you because you threatened to leak admin-bus or whatever that channel was.

No, that was deserved, I'm not complaining about that.

Well I'm hoping he doesn't boot you over sharing an opinion. Seems like he mostly just blocks people or mutes them on discord when he gets annoyed but I'm not going to claim I know what's going on.

[Vekter]

MSO booted you because you threatened to leak admin-bus or whatever that channel was.

No, that was deserved, I'm not complaining about that.

Well I'm hoping he doesn't boot you over sharing an opinion. Seems like he mostly just blocks people or mutes them on discord when he gets annoyed but I'm not going to claim I know what's going on.

I mean, I hope so too, but when there's someone who has completely unchecked power who I fundamentally disagree with on multiple things, I can't help but be worried that he might realize one day "Wait, I can just get rid of this guy and nobody can stop me." and punt me into the sun.

[Ziiro]

I'm not really in the camp that "ligger" shouldn't be allowed, but I do get where they're coming from. I don't think anyone is saying that you can't be species-ist against lizards IC, just that you should come up with a word that isn't directly tied to an IRL slur. It's the future, get creative. Call them geckos, skinks, leather-skins, something like that.

And if it's presumed that the IC universe is a continuation of real world today to one a few hundred years in the future, then why would it not be a matter of space law and IC word policing that people can't drop hard Ls because everyone in that universe agrees with you regarding that? Nanotrasen is a PC corporation with indentured servant nonhumans. Seems to me like this is an IC issue with an IC solution and this whole matter could be sidestepped.

[Mega]corporations only care about the appearance of inclusivity and justice so long as it could affect their bottom line or employee morale. Once they hit a certain point where they're beyond the power of governments and culture, there is no reason for them to care. Not even a façade.

Nanotrasen, a human-founded and largely human-staffed multi-system corporation, would not give two shits about their human employees treating other species like garbage.

I mean, I hope so too, but when there's someone who has completely unchecked power who I fundamentally disagree with on multiple things, I can't help but be worried that he might realize one day "Wait, I can just get rid of this guy and nobody can stop me." and punt me into the sun.

Canary in the coal mine, honestly.

[Turbonerd]

2: This is an autism simulator first and foremost, I do not plan to ever have our autism simulator cater to normies.

Unfathomably based. When I become a robust spessman, I want to be as based as MSO.

Turning a thread that was about spam into a thread about the n-word because it included the n-word isn't being based or being like MSO.

[BONERMASTER]

H'okay, so this is going to be a long post, and I got distracted in the middle, so please try to bear with me and, uh, if I trail off a thought in the middle of it, just let me know and I'll try to go finish it.

Calling somebody a serious accusation as bigot or racist or sexist

MUST
HAVE
ZERO
FALSE
POSITIVES.

So what I'm getting at here is - what if we just ask, regardless of whether they're a bigot, whether they're enjoyable to be around? Do they contribute to a fun atmosphere? Do people enjoy their presence?

Like, every time i see somebody argue about ligger that "Most people saying it are just using it because "aha look how clever i am i said the n-word but not actually im so subtle and original"" i start to regret making rule 11, because it keeps seeming like the types of people who were scared off by edge lords might not be such a good presence in the community.

Whether the lizard gamer word was ever funny is a matter of debate, but I'm honestly pretty strongly of the opinion that even if it was, it hasn't been for years. It's tired, low-effort stuff. There's nothing clever or interesting or original about it. It doesn't work as a joke because the only possible punchline to it is "It's like the n word." What exactly does it add, as opposed to insults that don't have RL baggage attached?

Maybe they hate black people, maybe they don't, but I don't habitually enjoy being around people where I have to ask the question at all.

I know personally at least a few people who had been on tg before I knew them and have said that they don't plan to come back because of our (in their perception) unwillingness to actually address the prevalence of slurs.

i can think of at least 5-6 good friends i have outside /tg/, several of whom are active players on downstreams and at least one of which is/was a very active and talented coder who contributed a lot to one of them, and im pretty sure if i tried to get them to try out /tg/ they would very easily be able to use threads like this and mso's commentary as a good reason not to touch it, and i wouldnt have a very good argument against their judgement

We are losing people who are never going to get enough hours on tg to participate in Players' Club culture wars because they simply cannot be fucked to put up with an atmosphere they find distasteful (and especially god help them if they're European and want LRP but don't want Sybil ping). There are people going "Oh, this is one of those places" when they see we have examples of how to use slurs within the confines of the rules built into said rules, and they just pass on it. I know I would have if I didn't already have such deep roots within /tg/station13 itself.

Beyond that, I'm inclined to agree with Timber, Rave's traditional position, etc., that fundamentally, saying that slurs are fine to use in certain conditions attracts people who have strong feelings that they want to be able to say slurs, and I'm not shy about saying that I think those people are usually not just unpleasant to play with but often unpleasant to share OOC spaces with. This comes back to that part above about an unpleasant atmosphere. They may enjoy getting a rise out of people, they may be aggressive personalities, they may be NRP shitters, they may have other faults unrelated, but generally I find that people who care a lot about being allowed to say slurs are both personally unpleasant and bring out the worst in people around them.

tl;dr

- Explicitly allowing slurs in some conditions attracts people who really want to say slurs and can't on other servers.
- These people are not generally fun to be around.

I struggle to think of anyone who has ever said slurs in-game regularly who is a significant and consistent positive influence on the server and/or forums, but if you can think of someone, I'm open to hearing.

*Doesn't bear with you*

I felt bad seeing that nobody quoted your post. You put so much effort into it, letting us take part of your thoughts, and yet they go unnoticed, like tears in rain.
*hugs you*
Have a +1 notification from me. I have read your post, and it was not in vain.
Now we can be sad together. I have brought some music with me, do you want to listen? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypJHCm0Omao


With fading regards
-BONERMASTER

[dirk_mcblade]

MSO booted you because you threatened to leak admin-bus or whatever that channel was.

No, that was deserved, I'm not complaining about that.

Well I'm hoping he doesn't boot you over sharing an opinion. Seems like he mostly just blocks people or mutes them on discord when he gets annoyed but I'm not going to claim I know what's going on.

I mean, I hope so too, but when there's someone who has completely unchecked power who I fundamentally disagree with on multiple things, I can't help but be worried that he might realize one day "Wait, I can just get rid of this guy and nobody can stop me." and punt me into the sun.

Well you'd have to see whether he has a history of doing that before thinking he's of poor enough character to do that over disagreements and not over you failing to follow policy but the other thing is it's his server and ultimately we're guests. It's also not a particularly expensive game to set up your own server for. I mean yeah it could be a few hundred bucks per month which is out of reach for a lot of people BUT it's not the same as being banned from the game servers of most modern games where the cost of making a competitor would be by most reckonings fairly insurmountable.

[ekaterina]

This is an autism simulator first and foremost, I do not plan to ever have our autism simulator cater to normies.

Unfathomably based. When I become a robust spessman, I want to be as based as MSO.

Turning a thread that was about spam into a thread about the n-word because it included the n-word isn't being based or being like MSO.

And I'm not a robust spessman yet, so what's your point?

[Turbonerd]

This is an autism simulator first and foremost, I do not plan to ever have our autism simulator cater to normies.

Unfathomably based. When I become a robust spessman, I want to be as based as MSO.

Turning a thread that was about spam into a thread about the n-word because it included the n-word isn't being based or being like MSO.

And I'm not a robust spessman yet, so what's your point?

I just hope that your perception of the alignment of your and MSO's opinions doesn't make you think you did the right thing.

[dirk_mcblade]

I'm not really in the camp that "ligger" shouldn't be allowed, but I do get where they're coming from. I don't think anyone is saying that you can't be species-ist against lizards IC, just that you should come up with a word that isn't directly tied to an IRL slur. It's the future, get creative. Call them geckos, skinks, leather-skins, something like that.

And if it's presumed that the IC universe is a continuation of real world today to one a few hundred years in the future, then why would it not be a matter of space law and IC word policing that people can't drop hard Ls because everyone in that universe agrees with you regarding that? Nanotrasen is a PC corporation with indentured servant nonhumans. Seems to me like this is an IC issue with an IC solution and this whole matter could be sidestepped.

[Mega]corporations only care about the appearance of inclusivity and justice so long as it could affect their bottom line or employee morale. Once they hit a certain point where they're beyond the power of governments and culture, there is no reason for them to care. Not even a façade.

Nanotrasen, a human-founded and largely human-staffed multi-system corporation, would not give two shits about their human employees treating other species like garbage.

Right. Abuse the lizard to your heart's content but don't you dare call him a ligger or you might offend the humans back home making SpaceTikTok videos on their NT spacecellphones and planning a spaceboycott of NT for letting some employees offend humans, in space.
Am I really failing to communicate this clearly? I feel like this is the 2nd or 3rd time.

[ekaterina]

This is an autism simulator first and foremost, I do not plan to ever have our autism simulator cater to normies.

Unfathomably based. When I become a robust spessman, I want to be as based as MSO.

Turning a thread that was about spam into a thread about the n-word because it included the n-word isn't being based or being like MSO.

And I'm not a robust spessman yet, so what's your point?

I just hope that your perception of the alignment of your and MSO's opinions doesn't make you think you did the right thing.

I measure the righteousness of my actions by my own conscience, not by their alignment with someone else's.
My "perception of the alignment of [my] and MSO's opinions" just gives me a rolemodel.

[TheRex9001]

I dont get the hate towards "normies" I started playing this server because I saw a video from livrah about mechs, I thought that looked fucking awesome and then I checked the server out. All this "normie" stuff honestly just sounds so fucking cringe and is not even close to any sort of real arguement. Every game needs growth and this type of alianation and making it a us vs them case sucks. Do we only want the "Based" and "redpilled" players or something? There is really no difference, we are all people on the internet and we really dont need to draw these very odd lines in the sand.

[MrStonedOne]

Na, i think it doesn't logically fit the definition of bigotry or homophobia to say "what are you faggots playing" and i'll never be against that kind of friendly ironic usage.

I think it doesn't logically fit the definition of bigotry or racism to scream the nword into the void and will never support or listen to arguments that say otherwise.

I think these words: bigotry, racism, homophobia, sexism, etc, have meaning and if you want to argue things that don't fit the meaning of bigotry/racism/homophobia/sexism should be banned, you have to use arguments other than bigotry/racism/homophobia/sexism to justify it.

I think ligger is innocent and most of the calls to ban it come from the exact type of sjw anti-bigotry fuckhead that finds it acceptable to drink out of cups that say "white male tears" or arguing that jannie is transphobic because of origin memes and letters. you don't hate bigotry, you just like to bully people when it's socially acceptable to do so. Most of these people would have been racist if they grew up in the 40s because it was socially acceptable to bully black people than.

I think people defending assuming all 'it was joke' defenses are made in bad faith or otherwise arguing that anything that even smells like edgy humor should be treated as bigotry because otherwise a bigot might slip thru the cracks are also the type that also argues that saying ladies is racist and people should lose job offers they already signed over it or that its ok to fire people who don't even own a computer and send their family into homeless because they used the ok hand sign while having zero reason to even know what the fuck it means.

I was ok with cracking down on hard-rs in a lot of situations even if most should be cracked down on rule 1 instead of rule 11.

there are more than just hard-rs being spammed by bots at question here and everybody keeps trying to transpose my arguments on to that are missing the points.

I WAS ON THE SERVER AT THE TIME THE BAN WAS ISSUED 2 YEARS AGO THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE chain of threads. IF HALF THE SHIT PEOPLE LIKE TIMBER ARE SAYING ABOUT ME WAS TRUE, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PERMABANNED. YET THEY ARE.

[Vekter]

I think people defending assuming all 'it was joke' defenses are made in bad faith or otherwise arguing that anything that even smells like edgy humor should be treated as bigotry because otherwise a bigot might slip thru the cracks are also the type that also argues that saying ladies is racist and people should lose job offers they already signed over it or that its ok to fire people who don't even own a computer and send their family into homeless because they used the ok hand sign while having zero reason to even know what the fuck it means.

MSO, to speak perfectly plainly and bluntly, the fact that you're equating "getting banned from playing a game about spacemen" with "literally having your life ruined" is kind of telling as to the actual problem here.

I don't think there's literally anybody on this server that wants to ban people for using a slur the first time it's done. The majority of interactions would look like this:

1) Person uses slur.
2) Admin asks them to stop.
3) They say "ok" and get a note.
4) Either they don't do it again or we escalate if it continues being an issue.

There's two sides to not wanting these words around, one of them being that they represent bigotry in multiple different ways and people don't want to have to see them in a place they go to escape that bullshit in real life, and the other being that some folks don't think they should be used in polite conversation at all.

As much as this is probably going to get me slapped, I'm going to say it - You don't understand the context behind these words because you aren't part of the groups they apply to. For you, it's just getting called an insult. For me, it's getting singled out in public because I'm walking down the street with my husband. I live in a place where there's a very real chance someone could cause violence to me for my identity. It can and has happened that LGBT+ people have been assaulted for being with their partners in public, and if someone calls me queer or a faggot or any number of those words, I have to contend with the fact that it means they know what I am and they could, if they really wanted to, assault me for it.

Maybe I just don't want to deal with that baggage in a game about spacemen on a space station.

Your entire mentality about being able to say those words screams this importance about freedom of speech, about being allowed to say whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone, but you then turn around and punish people for saying things you disagree with like those two bans in the thread the other day. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Nobody here thinks you're racist. At least, nobody reasonable does, I imagine. We just think your mentality on the whole thing is outdated and you'd do well to look into what's changed and how you can better improve yourself and the server in general.

E: Also I haven't heard of any of those examples you're talking about except for the "ok hand" thing and I can actually explain that, /pol/ made it up as a thing to try and make lefties look stupid for yelling at people for it ("haha look how easily offended they are, they think that's a dog whistle") then groups of actual white supremacists saw it being used and started using it themselves, which is a really good lesson in how irony inevitably escalates into actually believing what you're saying.

[ekaterina]

they know what I am and they could, if they really wanted to, assault me for it.

Someone who wants to enact violence upon you can assault you regardless of whether said person calls you slurs or calls you by whichever technical term you use. This is a non-argument.

[the rest of Vekter's post]

Saying that he doesn't understand because he isn't a [generic minority] can be perceived as actual discrimination against him.
Discrimination does not just exist against minorities, which has been one of his major points.

[Vekter]

they know what I am and they could, if they really wanted to, assault me for it.

Someone who hates homosexuals can assault homosexuals regardless of whether they call them slurs or call them "homosexuals". This is a non-argument.

You're right, but if someone shouts "QUEER" out of a car window, that draws attention to the matter. Now that person and anyone in earshot knows. It's also just fucking hurtful to have someone insult something about you that you have literally no control over.

[dirk_mcblade]

they know what I am and they could, if they really wanted to, assault me for it.

Someone who wants to enact violence upon you can assault you regardless of whether said person calls you slurs or calls you by whichever technical term you use. This is a non-argument.

Well it'd be correlated. I could understand him not wanting to hear that so his guard isn't up all the time.

[ekaterina]

You're right, but if someone shouts "QUEER" out of a car window, that draws attention to the matter. Now that person and anyone in earshot knows.

None of this has to do with the slur. The same would be true if he had instead shouted "HOMOSEXUAL" or "GAY".

It's also just fucking hurtful to have someone insult something about you that you have literally no control over.

This is true, but rule 1 already exists.

Well it'd be correlated. I could understand him not wanting to hear that so his guard isn't up all the time.

Your guard not being up does not mean you are not in danger. Quite the opposite, it makes you more vulnerable to danger.

[Boot]

As much as this is probably going to get me slapped, I'm going to say it - You don't understand the context behind these words because you aren't part of the groups they apply to. For you, it's just getting called an insult. For me, it's getting singled out in public because I'm walking down the street with my husband. I live in a place where there's a very real chance someone could cause violence to me for my identity. It can and has happened that LGBT+ people have been assaulted for being with their partners in public, and if someone calls me queer or a faggot or any number of those words, I have to contend with the fact that it means they know what I am and they could, if they really wanted to, assault me for it.

Vekter I promise you that everytime I called you a faggot in my head its never been because you were gay as I never knew that you were. Honestly it would be bigoted of me to stop now just because you are gay.

[dirk_mcblade]

Your guard not being up does not mean you are not in danger. Quite the opposite, it makes you more vulnerable to danger.

Right but nobody wants a cortisol flood inside their system 24/7, or at least not when they're at home playing vidya. Do you want people to get heart disease at age 30?

[ekaterina]

Your guard not being up does not mean you are not in danger. Quite the opposite, it makes you more vulnerable to danger.

Right but nobody wants a cortisol flood inside their system 24/7, or at least not when they're at home playing vidya. Do you want people to get heart disease at age 30?

You can apply the same logic with the caprisun-flood-or-whatever-the-fuck to arachnophobia or coulrophobia sufferers and I don't see clowns or spiders being removed.

Honestly it would be bigoted of me to stop now just because you are gay.

[dirk_mcblade]

Your guard not being up does not mean you are not in danger. Quite the opposite, it makes you more vulnerable to danger.

Right but nobody wants a cortisol flood inside their system 24/7, or at least not when they're at home playing vidya. Do you want people to get heart disease at age 30?

You can apply the same logic with the caprisun-flood-or-whatever-the-fuck to arachnophobia or coulrophobia sufferers and I don't see clowns or spiders being removed.

Hey man I'm just saying stress hormones exist and that's why the gamer words bother some people. I'm not saying you can't break his balls once in a while.

[Ziiro]

I don't think there's literally anybody on this server that wants to ban people for using a slur the first time it's done. The majority of interactions would look like this:

1) Person uses slur.
2) Admin asks them to stop.
3) They say "ok" and get a note.
4) Either they don't do it again or we escalate if it continues being an issue.

Generally speaking this is how it works in real life, as well, and people who end up in deep shit from these kinds of things are generally unapologetic or have a history of these things. People getting fired or "cancelled" for one offs isn't the norm, because if someone makes a genuine mistake it's human nature to give them the opportunity to improve. Patterns of behavior that come forward after this stuff rises to the surface and they dig in their heels? That's when there's a problem. (Justin Roiland, lmao)

Nobody here thinks you're racist. At least, nobody reasonable does, I imagine. We just think your mentality on the whole thing is outdated and you'd do well to look into what's changed and how you can better improve yourself and the server in general.

For the record, this is also my stance on it.

[Vekter]

You can apply the same logic with the caprisun-flood-or-whatever-the-fuck to arachnophobia or coulrophobia sufferers and I don't see clowns or spiders being removed.

For what it's worth, there are a lot of games that have an arachnophobia mode.

[dirk_mcblade]

You can apply the same logic with the caprisun-flood-or-whatever-the-fuck to arachnophobia or coulrophobia sufferers and I don't see clowns or spiders being removed.

For what it's worth, there are a lot of games that have an arachnophobia mode.

That increases the number of spiders though, right?

[MrStonedOne]

For instance: I can stand existing in a world that offers me no protections for hearing mean words about my demographics, so I presume other demographic can as well.

I'm sure you can stand existing in a world like that (it's the world that we live in)
but would you like to live in a world with slightly more protections against "mean words about my demographics"?

No. I would not like to live in that world. This might be confusing because I often enforce something like this upon people, but I care more about the inequality in how much suspicion and bad faith ones words are viewed with when you are a straight cisgendered white man. You can't say ladies without losing out on well paying jobs because somebody figured out a way to argue it's racist against black people to do so. You can't call a function to get the head item in a queue Get_head() without getting fired for sexual harassment, you can't call your master branch in a github repo `master` without somebody trying to claim you support slavery by doing so. (because they forgot master/apprentice was a thing. sounds kinda racist against asians to me). Pushing the same level of assumptions of bad faith onto people when talking about majorities is a way of creating what i call forced empathy.

It should be zero shock to anybody here I am autistic and have social anxiety. So it should be zero shock to them as well that I do not support anything that creates more social faux pas or social landmines, especially when they are only enforced or treated with the same level of bad faith assumptions against certain demographics.

Now, given, I expect to have protections against mean words said about my demographics to me.

[iwishforducks]

jesus fucking christ the replies to vekter makes me want to stick pencils into my eye sockets for ever having to read them. you guys are such fucking twerps. little goblin freaks. pointed shoes. brown sack on your back. mf'ers be saying "I'll be taking that one!" in this thread

[Boot]

jesus fucking christ the replies to vekter makes me want to stick pencils into my eye sockets for ever having to read them. you guys are such fucking twerps. little goblin freaks. pointed shoes. brown sack on your back. mf'ers be saying "I'll be taking that one!" in this thread

Pretty anti-semitic bro. Gonna have to toss you into the same room with the guy who said jannie. You see the issue with assuming not just malice but the craziest malice?

[Vekter]

You can't say ladies without losing out on well paying jobs because somebody figured out a way to argue it's racist against black people to do so.

You've said this one a few times, so I imagine there's an actual example of it happening? That sounds like an extreme case and not something I'd ever expect to happen on the regular.

You can't call a function to get the head item in a queue Get_head() without getting fired for sexual harassment

Did this happen? Can you give me a source on it if so? That sounds absurd from anyone's standpoint, I can't imagine this being the full context of it unless someone is EXTREMELY up their own ass.

you can't call your master branch in a github repo `master` without somebody trying to claim you support slavery by doing so.

Hey, I work in tech, too. The actual reason the whole "Master" thing got called into question is because we used to refer to a lot of things as "master/slave" in coding and hardware. There's obviously some questionable context to that, so I remember someone bringing up at some point that it might be a good idea to change it to something else, but I don't recall anyone ever actually accusing someone of supporting slavery for being against it.

There's a lot of stuff out there like this, not just from the tech world; someone suggests we change or use a different term because they realize the one we use now has bad context behind it, then a lot of people who are used to it being the norm get up in arms about it, ascribing this weird, pearl-clutching mentality to the people who want it changed. People who think it should be changed don't think it's super racist or that people who don't want it changed are bigots. They just think it's better if it's different because there's bad context related to it.

because they forgot master/apprentice was a thing. sounds kinda racist against asians to me

I'm not sure about any context in tech where we've ever used the term "master" and "apprentice", but I'm admittedly not that much of a greybeard, so there might've been something back in the day.

[iwishforducks]

jesus fucking christ the replies to vekter makes me want to stick pencils into my eye sockets for ever having to read them. you guys are such fucking twerps. little goblin freaks. pointed shoes. brown sack on your back. mf'ers be saying "I'll be taking that one!" in this thread

Pretty anti-semitic bro. Gonna have to toss you into the same room with the guy who said jannie. You see the issue with assuming not just malice but the craziest malice?

what

[BeeSting12]

jesus fucking christ the replies to vekter makes me want to stick pencils into my eye sockets for ever having to read them. you guys are such fucking twerps. little goblin freaks. pointed shoes. brown sack on your back. mf'ers be saying "I'll be taking that one!" in this thread

Pretty anti-semitic bro. Gonna have to toss you into the same room with the guy who said jannie. You see the issue with assuming not just malice but the craziest malice?

what

maybe the goblin freaks part? theres been a recent controversy about the harry potter game having goblins which are modelled after antisemitic stereotypes.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Like I said two pages ago, I throw not just actual slur-users, but spiecist slur users, into the supermatter, because I don't want that shit in my game and I will deadass take notes/escalating bans over it gladly and continue to do it because it's shit and the people who do it are shit.

People who do it because they're "edgy" or for "shock value" do it for the shock value that it being bigoted provides, and the words have no value to offend or be edgy without that underpinning bigotry.

If you're shouting it to shock people, you're just shouting bigoted shit.

It is not functionally different from being a bigot, you're just using the weight of the word differently.

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

[Jackraxxus]

150000 hours in paint btw

[dirk_mcblade]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

8 years isn't an era.

[BrolyButterfingers]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

8 years isn't an era.

It is to the morons who identify with it for all their personal social anchorings

[oranges]

downstreams

and at least one of which is/was a very active and talented coder who contributed a lot to one of them,

a contradiction in terms

[Vekter]

You can't say ladies without losing out on well paying jobs because somebody figured out a way to argue it's racist against black people to do so.

You've said this one a few times, so I imagine there's an actual example of it happening? That sounds like an extreme case and not something I'd ever expect to happen on the regular.

I got context on this, it is actually A Thing that happened and I can't find anything else the guy did that'd cause him to be removed, but the job was as a superintendent for a school district, which is a position elected by the school board. The vote went 4 for, 3 against, and I'm way more certain this was more "We found an excuse to oust him because the vote didn't go our way" and less "we actually think this is racist". Which is arguably worse, what the fuck

[Capsandi]

Why are people circlejerking in my peanut gallery?

[BeeSting12]

You can't say ladies without losing out on well paying jobs because somebody figured out a way to argue it's racist against black people to do so.

You've said this one a few times, so I imagine there's an actual example of it happening? That sounds like an extreme case and not something I'd ever expect to happen on the regular.

I got context on this, it is actually A Thing that happened and I can't find anything else the guy did that'd cause him to be removed, but the job was as a superintendent for a school district, which is a position elected by the school board. The vote went 4 for, 3 against, and I'm way more certain this was more "We found an excuse to oust him because the vote didn't go our way" and less "we actually think this is racist". Which is arguably worse, what the fuck

Yeah it just takes one person on the for side to be convinced to swing over and bam no more job. Fuckin ridiculous, feel bad for the guy.

[Turbonerd]

Democracy sucks. If he discovered it was run via voting, he probably wouldn't bother applying.

[Hulkamania]

your big mistake is arguing with MSO while he's on stoner lent, doomed to failure

[Armhulen]

your big mistake is arguing with MSO while he's on stoner lent, doomed to failure

april 21 "guys i was hella too harsh guys i love you guys"

[Pandarsenic]

8 years isn't an era.

And yet look at how many people base their whole identities around the Confederate States of America, which lasted 5 years

[trexter555]

this says alot about society

[Pandarsenic]

your big mistake is arguing with MSO while he's on stoner lent, doomed to failure

At like this time next month I'm going to make a thread that we should ban slurs because they, and the people who use them, are fucking annoying to me personally and I'm going to slam the forum warn button on anyone who tries to turn the thread into being around anything else

Tell me how genius my plan is

[Hulkamania]

your big mistake is arguing with MSO while he's on stoner lent, doomed to failure

At like this time next month I'm going to make a thread that we should ban slurs because they, and the people who use them, are fucking annoying to me personally and I'm going to slam the forum warn button on anyone who tries to turn the thread into being around anything else

Tell me how genius my plan is

He'll still have the same opinions but be a lot less grumpy about it.

[Thranos]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

He dies on the hill of "this word is okay to say" but if I yell it at him in this thread I will be banned, this says a lot about society.