LOCKING THE THREAD BECAUSE BAWHOPPEN IS TOO POWERFUL

[datorangebottle]

I was talking with Kendrickorium about it because I thought I had a funny idea. But now we're both conflicted. Help us decide.
For context.

[Kendrickorium]

come up with a better one everyone!

[iwishforducks]

all of these are shit. i present to you:

HoPs that can't stop injecting themselves with holding access support group peanut

[NoxVS]

Whatever name you give it, the title will probably be more verbose than the entirety of it Zyb's say history

[Kendrickorium]

all of these are shit. i present to you:

HoPs that can't stop injecting themselves with holding access support group peanut

awful, learn to be funny please

[Armhulen]

I Want Off HoP's Wild Peanut Parade 2: The Ride Never Ends

[kinnebian]

peanut: a piece in classicism, and simplicity.

[vect0r]

Zybwivcz Unsatisfied With Life After Shooting Himself In The Face, Shoots Himself In The Foot Instead.

[Armhulen]

What are you gonna do, peanut through my logs?

[Chadley]

Zybwivcz's ban request, colorized.

[WineAllWine]

It looks pretty conclusive

[Zybwivcz]

Whatever name you give it, the title will probably be more verbose than the entirety of it Zyb's say history

I just need to find a way to expand "Being passive aggressive to timberpoes isn't very nice but it's not actually permabannable" to 5000 words.

[Timberpoes]

I'd advise you to focus on the repeated shifts you're moonlighting as security over the past week or immediately adding sec accesses to your IDs within minutes of the shift starting.

But you didn't make a habit of reading what I wrote before, so I doubt you'll make an exception of reading your ban reason now.

[Scriptis]

MARK "ZYBWIVCZ" ZUCKERBURG PEANUT

EDIT: THIS ONE IS FUNNIER

[datorangebottle]

But you didn't make a habit of reading what I wrote before, so I doubt you'll make an exception of reading your ban reason now.

Don't worry Timber, I'm not sure he fully reads or comprehends what anyone writes.
See above.

[BeeSting12]

But you didn't make a habit of reading what I wrote before, so I doubt you'll make an exception of reading your ban reason now.

Reading timbers' roasts is half the reason I voted him for headmin and he does not disappoint

[Zybwivcz]

I'd advise you to focus on the repeated shifts you're moonlighting as security over the past week or immediately adding sec accesses to your IDs within minutes of the shift starting.

But you didn't make a habit of reading what I wrote before, so I doubt you'll make an exception of reading your ban reason now.

I would probably start with pointing out that simply adding access has never before qualified as evading a sec job ban, any more than adding medbay access would qualify as evading a medical job ban. Especially when there are multiple perfectly good reason to have sec access as a head.

Or that for "204247 found, arrested + gulagged suspected heretic. Roundstart warden + captain.", I posted an extensive chat log with both the captain and the warden present where I get explicit approval from the warden to gulag the heretic . Which seems to me like an excellent example of how not to evade a sec job ban as HoP. Especially because you're also criticizing me for gulagging someone without getting explicit approval first.

But I will keep your advice in mind.

[vect0r]

I think timber is saying to *not* gulag people, like at all while you have a sec ban.

[datorangebottle]

Or even arrest people. You can eject people from your department without arresting them.

[Archie700]

I would probably start with pointing out that simply adding access has never before qualified as evading a sec job ban, any more than adding medbay access would qualify as evading a medical job ban. Especially when there are multiple perfectly good reason to have sec access as a head.

You literally added Holding Cells and Armoury to your access as soon as you join the round. This is already suspect and one of the most common ways to evade a jobban - asking the HoP to give you access to the very jobs you're banned from. You just cut out the middleman and did it yourself.

And you didn't do it when you arrested people, you did it when you joined the round. You clearly wanted to be able to gulag people yourself, without bothering to hand over criminals to actual security.

The MINIMUM ban for that would be a perma HoP, if not headban.

[blackdav123]

I would probably start with pointing out that simply adding access has never before qualified as evading a sec job ban

using the hopline to evade jobbans has always been against the rules

[Zybwivcz]

I think timber is saying to *not* gulag people, like at all while you have a sec ban.

See, this is helpful. 'Ever using the gulag at any point for any reason violates a sec job ban' is clear, in the same way 'Ever fixing the SM at any point for any reason violates an engineering job ban' or 'Ever using a defib at any point for any reason violates a medbay job ban' is clear. They're still interpretations at odds with how job ban evasion has been treated in the past, and they're clearly nonsensical ones to apply to the captain role, but it has the virtue of being explicit.

You literally added Holding Cells and Armoury to your access as soon as you join the round.

Yes. Because that is the basic access needed to get a HUD and headset and thus equip yourself at the level of half the assistants on the station. Or to actually find the last surviving sec officer to try to get him to do something, or to get into an area that is slightly tougher to instantly break into than the rest of the station, or to have easy access to rechargers for the e-gun the HoP spawns with, or for a dozen other reasons that aren't evading a sec job ban in the very same way taking pharmacy access would violate a medbay job ban or engineering access an engineering job ban.

You clearly wanted to be able to gulag people yourself, without bothering to hand over criminals to actual security.

I think is generally considered good form to ban someone not because you read their mind but because of concrete actions they actually took.

using the hopline to evade jobbans has always been against the rules

Using the hopline to evade jobbans has always been against the rules, just like evading jobbans without using the hopline has always been against the rules. Because evading jobbans is against the rules, using the hopline is not.

[Bawhoppennn]

Whatever name you give it, the title will probably be more verbose than the entirety of it Zyb's say history

USER RECEIVED /TG/ GOLD FOR THIS POST.

[The Wrench]

I think timber is saying to *not* gulag people, like at all while you have a sec ban.

See, this is helpful. 'Ever using the gulag at any point for any reason violates a sec job ban' is clear, in the same way 'Ever fixing the SM at any point for any reason violates an engineering job ban' or 'Ever using a defib at any point for any reason violates a medbay job ban' is clear. They're still interpretations at odds with how job ban evasion has been treated in the past, and they're clearly nonsensical ones to apply to the captain role, but it has the virtue of being explicit.

You literally added Holding Cells and Armoury to your access as soon as you join the round.

Yes. Because that is the basic access needed to get a HUD and headset and thus equip yourself at the level of half the assistants on the station. Or to actually find the last surviving sec officer to try to get him to do something, or to get into an area that is slightly tougher to instantly break into than the rest of the station, or to have easy access to rechargers for the e-gun the HoP spawns with, or for a dozen other reasons that aren't evading a sec job ban in the very same way taking pharmacy access would violate a medbay job ban or engineering access an engineering job ban.

You clearly wanted to be able to gulag people yourself, without bothering to hand over criminals to actual security.

I think is generally considered good form to ban someone not because you read their mind but because of concrete actions they actually took.

using the hopline to evade jobbans has always been against the rules

Using the hopline to evade jobbans has always been against the rules, just like evading jobbans without using the hopline has always been against the rules. Because evading jobbans is against the rules, using the hopline is not.

Save all of this stuff for the ban appeal

[NoxVS]

Whatever name you give it, the title will probably be more verbose than the entirety of it Zyb's say history

USER RECEIVED /TG/ GOLD FOR THIS POST.

Thanks for the gold kind stranger!

[TheLoLSwat]

Yes. Because that is the basic access needed to get a HUD and headset and thus equip yourself at the level of half the assistants on the station. Or to actually find the last surviving sec officer to try to get him to do something, or to get into an area that is slightly tougher to instantly break into than the rest of the station, or to have easy access to rechargers for the e-gun the HoP spawns with, or for a dozen other reasons that aren't evading a sec job ban in the very same way taking pharmacy access would violate a medbay job ban or engineering access an engineering job ban.

you are adding sec access to your ID in multiple shifts despite a security ban. If you were banned from med and used the hop job to circumvent it the same way you did with this the result wouldnt change, so i dont see your point. HOP also spawns with enough sec access and its not hard to just ask for a hud and a headset. You also dont need armory access to… find the last sec officer? (i still dont know what you mean by this, do sec officers usually frequent the armory? do you not have a pda or a headset?).

HOP also has the bridge so your points about rechargers and having a safe place are null. It seems like you are pulling reasons of varying validity out of your ass to justify being hopcurity despite having a secban.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I Want Off HoP's Wild Peanut Parade 2: The Ride Never Ends

[sinfulbliss]

things that you SHOULD do as a HoP who is secbanned:
change accesses, manage your department (service), ensure job roles are filled, manage the slots

things you SHOULDN’T do as a HoP who is secbanned: give yourself roundstart full sec access, hunt antagonists, arrest and process people for crimes, gulag people, grab sec comms and HUDs

but Zyb knew that. it’s just easy to evade these things because admins aren’t always on or always aware of your bans and notes until you run into trouble. hilarious poetic justice that the only reason they became aware was because he bitched and moaned loud enough in ahelps and appeals to draw the attention to himself eventually.

[TheRex9001]

Maybe the reason you keep getting in these situations is that you are so concerned with getting gear, powergaming is one hell of a drug kids

[datorangebottle]

It seems like you are pulling reasons of varying validity out of your ass to justify being hopcurity despite having a secban.

Zyb has a history of doing this.

[Zybwivcz]

Maybe the reason you keep getting in these situations is that you are so concerned with getting gear, powergaming is one hell of a drug kids

"Keep getting" as in not a single ban or note for anything resembling hopcurity despite an obscene number of rounds as HoP over a year, until Timberpoes miraculously discovers them by glancing at some logs at the very moment I piss him off in a forum thread?

you are adding sec access to your ID in multiple shifts despite a security ban.

I'm adding sec access to my ID in multiple shifts because it's incredibly useful even if you don't have any intention of acting as SEC which is why a third of the server seems to wind up with a bowman and SEC huds.

If you were banned from med and used the hop job to circumvent it the same way you did with this the result wouldnt change, so i dont see your point.

If you were jobbanned from medbay jobs and gave yourself access to be able to grab medicine from the pharmacy nobody would consider that circumventing a medbay jobban because you're obviously not taking a job in medbay. Even if you wind up using an epi pen you got from the pharmacy on someone in the hall later on.

"sec job ban" has never for a moment meant "you can't set foot in the security department".

HOP also spawns with enough sec access and its not hard to just ask for a hud and a headset. You also dont need armory access to… find the last sec officer? (i still dont know what you mean by this, do sec officers usually frequent the armory? do you not have a pda or a headset?).

I do ask for HUDs when there's a warden or HoS present who's actually engaged, which is not often. Security access without holding cells gives only access to the very front of the brig, the other rooms that compromise 2/3rds of the department need added access.

Armory access is for HUDs if the locker ones are gone, and for tracker implants which I tend to use on myself most rounds.

HOP also has the bridge so your points about rechargers and having a safe place are null. It seems like you are pulling reasons of varying validity out of your ass to justify being hopcurity despite having a secban.

Do you want me to explain at length the ways the bridge is about the least safe place to be during cult or revs or even for avoiding murderboners? Or that it's useful to have access to multiple chargers across the station?

The reason I seem to have reasons for all these things is because there are reasons for all these things.

[Boot]

I do ask for HUDs when there's a warden or HoS present who's actually engaged, which is not often. Security access without holding cells gives only access to the very front of the brig, the other rooms that compromise 2/3rds of the department need added access.

Armory access is for HUDs if the locker ones are gone, and for tracker implants which I tend to use on myself most rounds.

So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down. However that isn't even the biggest question I got here, why are you implant tracking yourself most rounds?

[Zybwivcz]

So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not. Or being able to report on sec comms when someone wanted shows up, although I'm not sure if we're still with "HoPcurity is when the HoP reports sec issues to sec to handle" or "HoPcurity is when the HoP doesn't just report sec issues to sec to handle". SEChuds are universally useful for anyone who doesn't need to wear health or engi HUDs regardless if they have any desire whatsoever to play 'as sec', you know this.

Finally, you know when it's useful to see whether or not the assistant asking for for chem access or the assistant asking for engi access has a big red 'W' next to them? When you're the HoP.

However that isn't even the biggest question I got here, why are you implant tracking yourself most rounds?

Mostly because it means there's always a beacon on the shuttle, and because in theory it makes it possible for someone to recover my corpse when the tracker is stripped and stuck in a locker deep in maint(this generally has a poor success rate but there's always hope)

things that you SHOULD do as a HoP who is secbanned:
change accesses, manage your department (service), ensure job roles are filled, manage the slots

I could provide exhaustive logs showing me doing this but since I get the feeling somehow the definition of what's considered 'hopcurity' would shift instantly, it would have no purpose other than to bore people.

On second thought I might do it for that.

[Striders13]

why would you even care about who's wanted or not when you're playing hop. It's not your job to care, give people access, it's not gonna be the end of the world if one of them turns out to have been set to arrest.

[Zybwivcz]

why would you even care about who's wanted or not when you're playing hop. It's not your job to care, give people access, it's not gonna be the end of the world if one of them turns out to have been set to arrest.

You want me to write a whole primer on why it makes sense to be able to see the arrest status and sec record of someone who shows up at the HoP desk demanding access to chem or toxins or atmos or engineering or a dozen other places, or did that long rhetorical question do it?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Imagine if you had this tool called "Command radio" which you could use to effortlessly communicate with other authority figures on the station when deciding if someone who seems suspiscious should be given access

[TheRex9001]

Maybe the reason you keep getting in these situations is that you are so concerned with getting gear, powergaming is one hell of a drug kids

"Keep getting" as in not a single ban or note for anything resembling hopcurity despite an obscene number of rounds as HoP over a year, until Timberpoes miraculously discovers them by glancing at some logs at the very moment I piss him off in a forum thread?

I could give less of shit about your notes, I am going off you saying ”I go for sechuds and security bowmans every round” that is objectivly going for gear

[kinnebian]

I Want Off HoP's Wild Peanut Parade 2: The Ride Never Ends

[Kendrickorium]

why would you even care about who's wanted or not when you're playing hop. It's not your job to care, give people access, it's not gonna be the end of the world if one of them turns out to have been set to arrest.

You want me to write a whole primer on why it makes sense to be able to see the arrest status and sec record of someone who shows up at the HoP desk demanding access to chem or toxins or atmos or engineering or a dozen other places, or did that long rhetorical question do it?

imagine if you didnt fucking care, and gave people whatever access they wanted, thus enabling CRAZY WACKY SITUATIONS?????? SCENARIOS???? ANTAGS DOING THINGS??? ASSISTANTS DOING GIMMICKS???????????

IMAGINE?????

[Kendrickorium]

might as well go ahead and change the thread title now anne, this is now a peanut thread with an appeal up or not

[Jacquerel]

you could rename this thread to "when you're in a hole quit digging" as friendly advice to man who is providing more evidence that it was a great idea to ban him for free unprompted in this thread

[conrad]

It needs to have peanut in the name or else his lordship Armpit won't like it, so there's only really two options.

[TheRex9001]

you could rename this thread to "when you're in a hole quit digging" as friendly advice to man who is providing more evidence that it was a great idea to ban him for free unprompted in this thread

Dont post in your own peanut kids

[Unsane]

expecting that mf to do paperwork and consulting head of department to ask whether to grant access might have been too much RP work for him

[Bawhoppennn]

When is the thread coming

[sinfulbliss]

why would you even care about who's wanted or not when you're playing hop. It's not your job to care, give people access, it's not gonna be the end of the world if one of them turns out to have been set to arrest.

You want me to write a whole primer on why it makes sense to be able to see the arrest status and sec record of someone who shows up at the HoP desk demanding access to chem or toxins or atmos or engineering or a dozen other places, or did that long rhetorical question do it?

How about not trying to optimize your gameplay in a way that eliminates all fun and risk in exchange for your own personal enjoyment, and playing the game in an interesting way that creates stories for others?

With permabanned regards,
-SinfulBliss

[TheRex9001]

So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

[Armhulen]

why would you even care about who's wanted or not when you're playing hop. It's not your job to care, give people access, it's not gonna be the end of the world if one of them turns out to have been set to arrest.

You want me to write a whole primer on why it makes sense to be able to see the arrest status and sec record of someone who shows up at the HoP desk demanding access to chem or toxins or atmos or engineering or a dozen other places, or did that long rhetorical question do it?

How about not trying to optimize your gameplay in a way that eliminates all fun and risk in exchange for your own personal enjoyment, and playing the game in an interesting way that creates stories for others?

With permabanned regards,
-SinfulBliss

STOP QUOTING YOUR POSTS

[datorangebottle]

When is the thread coming

I'm waiting for Zyb's appeal, given that this thread's already full of a bunch of stuff.
Though a lot of people have shared their thoughts regarding the ban. And the potential appellant is in here using his sonic jackhammer desperately attempting to make the hole deeper, somehow.

[ekaterina]

So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.