They're coming for our batons!! [code peanut tag to not annoy armhulenn]

[datorangebottle]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75063
I look forward to the day where stuns are no longer the king of combat and people are free to use whatever melee weapon they want.

[blackdav123]

I wish but there are too many holes in this one to pass

[iwishforducks]

items around the station should be just as deadly as most of our other weapons

[iwishforducks]

like a crowbar only does 5 damage. that shit should hit just as hard as a toolbox

[ekaterina]

How creative! As the representative of the Security Officers' Union™, I support this PR!

[Striders13]

pretty good pr, wonder how it would have played out. Stealth antags are kinda oversaturated at this point, we could do with more banging.

[stairmaster]

based???????

[TheRex9001]

pretty good pr, wonder how it would have played out. Stealth antags are kinda oversaturated at this point, we could do with more banging.

Its tmd on Sybil, so we Will see

[Ziiro]

I think a lot of modern games do things like this with stuns but they make it percentage of health related

So there's a complex equation to be written here with dynamically reducing stun duration based on how hard the hit was and their overall health.

Like if someone's pretty close to dead the stun should be easier to reduce compared to full health because the damage is a larger part of their hp

Tldr: love the concept actually, just needs tinkering

[AlamoTurtle]

items around the station should be just as deadly as most of our other weapons

Agreed. Fuck stun combat, you either go the full distance to cuff a person or you whack each other with sticks until someone goes down. I understand a toolbox hitting harder, but weapon stats should be more unique imo. Toolboxes do 20 damage but attack slightly slower each click, since they heavy. Shit like that, aside from "oh, you can become brain-damaged and get a concussion if RNG hates you" or only other wound bonuses. I say get creative with weaponry!

[Bawhoppennn]

I still thing we should have swing mechanics

[BONERMASTER]

I still thing we should have swing mechanics

1000000% agree! Imagine how fun the game would be if you didn't have to complete 20 osu stages to land a single hit on someone.
Also: We could then get in weapon characteristics. That fireaxe deals a lot of damage, but it's attack speed is a lot slower! Fricking amazing....
And I'm sure that we can get a janky version running really quickly: If we are to hijack the code for shooting a weapon, and make melee weapons a one-tile projectile basically, then we'd already have a rough version ready. Simple stuff!


With codified regards
-BONERMASTER

[sinfulbliss]

Euughhh… Swing combat looks so gross though. You ever seen it in SS14? It’s just people swinging and then spamming their movement keys to minimize the time they’re next to their target for the hit. It looks really braindead.

At least with click combat, accuracy is important and it’s not trivial to hit in melee range against a target moving around quickly (as it should be!). Yeah the OSU thing is somewhat true but only in very specific types of fights like toolboxes. With batongs or normal combat you don’t have to spam click all that much.

[Archie700]

Euughhh… Swing combat looks so gross though. You ever seen it in SS14? It’s just people swinging and then spamming their movement keys to minimize the time they’re next to their target for the hit. It looks really braindead.

At least with click combat, accuracy is important and it’s not trivial to hit in melee range against a target moving around quickly (as it should be!). Yeah the OSU thing is somewhat true but only in very specific types of fights like toolboxes. With batongs or normal combat you don’t have to spam click all that much.

With batons it's literally the reverse where it's one-hit -> WIN.

[sinfulbliss]

Euughhh… Swing combat looks so gross though. You ever seen it in SS14? It’s just people swinging and then spamming their movement keys to minimize the time they’re next to their target for the hit. It looks really braindead.

At least with click combat, accuracy is important and it’s not trivial to hit in melee range against a target moving around quickly (as it should be!). Yeah the OSU thing is somewhat true but only in very specific types of fights like toolboxes. With batongs or normal combat you don’t have to spam click all that much.

With batons it's literally the reverse where it's one-hit -> WIN.

Yeah, a lot of combat is one-hit-win with stuns, but IMO that’s totally fine. The fight becomes about how you can minimize the chances of getting hit while maximizing the chances you hit them, placement and stuff becomes more important since if you get clicked once it’s over.

Exceptions are in lethal melee vs lethal melee (ie toolbox), there can be some spam clicking there, but that’s pretty rare to see in an actual round since usually stuns are involved in some capacity (including slips and shoves).

[sinfulbliss]

Like, the meta will develop regardless of what happens to combat. The only time it becomes an issue is when there’s no counter at all to something. Telebaton gets close to that. Tots could probably use an anti baton implant, something like adrenals, although now they have the snatcher prod so they should at least be on equal footing against batongs if not better.

[LeekiLoku]

If you played Sybil after this testmerge, its terrible it lessens ALL things that stun you. Such as getting shoved twice, the time it takes is halfed. Also since mansus grasp does a little bit of damage, it doesnt stun them for a little it just puts them on the ground. I played a cult round yesterday and its the SAME thing with the cult hand.

THIS MERGED RUINED MY LIFE.

[sinfulbliss]

If you played Sybil after this testmerge, its terrible it lessens ALL things that stun you. Such as getting shoved twice, the time it takes is halfed. Also since mansus grasp does a little bit of damage, it doesnt stun them for a little it just puts them on the ground. I played a cult round yesterday and its the SAME thing with the cult hand.

THIS MERGED RUINED MY LIFE.

yeah this sucks. it should only apply to stamcrit, not hardstuns

[LeekiLoku]

yeah this sucks. it should only apply to stamcrit, not hardstuns

I mean im all for changing stuns BUT NOT LIKE THIS.

[BONERMASTER]

Yeah, a lot of combat is one-hit-win with stuns, but IMO that’s totally fine.

The whole point of the PR is that it is NOT fine. It sucks. Coders accepted that with tasers and how you could kill an entire nuke team with a single taser, which made every other ranged weapon obsolete, save for VERY specific circumstances.
Now melee stuns are on the chopping block. Tying stuns together with some kind of resistance is a clever idea, in my opinion.

Regardless of that, you're here typing away on your keyboard "Yooo BRO swing combat looks so stupid!!" and "they just run at eachother without doing anything!!!" dude, excuse me, have you ever looked at what our current combat looks like? You're not seriously believing that this is any better, are you?
Simple, FUN swings make melee very simply more fun. Even if you still don't hit shit, at least your character is doing SOMETHING. At least you hitting a square makes this dangerous for your opponent to step in. I think the balancing and creativity that gets opened up with this system is VERY SIMPLY worth implementing.


With simple regards
-BONERMASTER

[TheFinalPotato]

The dream is swing based combat yeah. Click spam is hell, and it'd be amazing to move away from it. (also it'd make stuff like click delay feel not horrid)
Frankly I refuse to believe anyone who tells me ss13 combat is fun. I think you're lying.

[Jacquerel]

I’m spending the next six months desperately hoping someone else picks up swing combat because I don’t want to do it myself but I can see myself slowly getting sucked into that plug hole

[sinfulbliss]

I’m spending the next six months desperately hoping someone else picks up swing combat because I don’t want to do it myself but I can see myself slowly getting sucked into that plug hole

u should do something else instead that’s awesome and cool swing combat would be a massive ginormous overhaul

you’d need to touch like. EVERY melee weapon in the game. and balance them all. could you imagine..

[conrad]

Good. Fuck batons. Encourage lethals. I want the station to be a warzone.

[Lacran]

Stuns determining every fight is shit. So I'm all for it. Though one issue is if players find work around that make non lethal arrests more difficult then sec are going to be far more likely to resort to lethals.

[iwishforducks]

im not entirely convinced swing combat is the solution but i think it would be interesting to try out

[SkeletalElite]

If you played Sybil after this testmerge, its terrible it lessens ALL things that stun you. Such as getting shoved twice, the time it takes is halfed. Also since mansus grasp does a little bit of damage, it doesnt stun them for a little it just puts them on the ground. I played a cult round yesterday and its the SAME thing with the cult hand.

THIS MERGED RUINED MY LIFE.

Mansus grasp's damage doesn't reduce it's own stun. If you hit them after mansus grasping them however, that will likely cause them to get up because mansus grasp stun isn't very long

[Boot]

instead of shoving the officer to disrupt arrests just start punching the guy they are arresting. Then when they question you just say "I thought they were bad why else would you be arresting them?"

[vect0r]

It's gonna be so funny watching revs attack each other to get rid of the stun...
The more I think about this PR, the worse it sounds, even if it is funny as fuck.

[Armhulen]

yeah this sucks. it should only apply to stamcrit, not hardstuns

I mean im all for changing stuns BUT NOT LIKE THIS.

kek

but really, i like the pr as an honest attempt but not one that will improve the game due to how it adds SO MUCH RELIANCE on cuffs.

[Armhulen]

forcing everyone who was stun combatting away to also cuff people is not going to be the solution, if the cuff dependence was solved the pr would be far better at keeping things not so stunny

[SkeletalElite]

It's gonna be so funny watching revs attack each other to get rid of the stun...
The more I think about this PR, the worse it sounds, even if it is funny as fuck.

You have to do about 20 damage to unstun someone from stam crit so it's not as effective as you'd think. if you start doing that you'll very quickly end up in a scenario where sec just beats you all to death because you got rid of all your health by unstunning each other.
I'm also not commited to that .5 x damage reduction. I already reduced that amount for regular stuns to .35 x damage because most of them are pretty short.
Aggressive grabs also exist and can be chained off most stuns and won't be interrupted by damage which I think is pretty interesting.

[Jacquerel]

I am not personally convinced that the Aggressive Grab Meta is going to be preferable (it's certainly clumsier) but we should see what happens I guess

[LeekiLoku]

If you played Sybil after this testmerge, its terrible it lessens ALL things that stun you. Such as getting shoved twice, the time it takes is halfed. Also since mansus grasp does a little bit of damage, it doesnt stun them for a little it just puts them on the ground. I played a cult round yesterday and its the SAME thing with the cult hand.

THIS MERGED RUINED MY LIFE.

Mansus grasp's damage doesn't reduce it's own stun. If you hit them after mansus grasping them however, that will likely cause them to get up because mansus grasp stun isn't very long

Nope i tested it, different paths slightly damages the affected person. Meaning they will not get stunned whatsoever.

FIKOU OR SOMEONE PLEASE GET THIS SHIT OFF OF SYBIL!!

[TheLoLSwat]

If you played Sybil after this testmerge, its terrible it lessens ALL things that stun you. Such as getting shoved twice, the time it takes is halfed. Also since mansus grasp does a little bit of damage, it doesnt stun them for a little it just puts them on the ground. I played a cult round yesterday and its the SAME thing with the cult hand.

THIS MERGED RUINED MY LIFE.

Mansus grasp's damage doesn't reduce it's own stun. If you hit them after mansus grasping them however, that will likely cause them to get up because mansus grasp stun isn't very long

Nope i tested it, different paths slightly damages the affected person. Meaning they will not get stunned whatsoever.

FIKOU OR SOMEONE PLEASE GET THIS SHIT OFF OF SYBIL!!

wyci

[SkeletalElite]

If you played Sybil after this testmerge, its terrible it lessens ALL things that stun you. Such as getting shoved twice, the time it takes is halfed. Also since mansus grasp does a little bit of damage, it doesnt stun them for a little it just puts them on the ground. I played a cult round yesterday and its the SAME thing with the cult hand.

THIS MERGED RUINED MY LIFE.

Mansus grasp's damage doesn't reduce it's own stun. If you hit them after mansus grasping them however, that will likely cause them to get up because mansus grasp stun isn't very long

Nope i tested it, different paths slightly damages the affected person. Meaning they will not get stunned whatsoever.

FIKOU OR SOMEONE PLEASE GET THIS SHIT OFF OF SYBIL!!

The PR hasn't been test merged since monday morning Pacific Time

As far as I can tell you are also wrong about the mansus grasp, here is a video where I use mansus grasp with path of the blade (the only one that increases the grasps damage to mobs to my knowledge)

https://youtu.be/96pLY6rAX0I

As you can see, it takes 5 seconds for the knockdown to end and 1 second for the mob to standup which is the base stun duration of mansus grasp

Edit:

I should also mention that it doesn't really matter much in the end since the PR is closed now.
Maybe If I think of a way to improve it I'll try again another time.

[Ziiro]

I'm wondering if it's something that should be a separate coefficient that gets modified by some sort of damage curve.

i.e, you took x damage in the last y seconds so your stuns are reduced by z% because of adrenaline.