local headmin loses his marbles?!

[TypicalRig]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Now that I've had some internal experience with them my view has changed. As such, consider this my updated review! The comment I posted here when they first got admin no longer rings true.

Nameless seems to be- with no other way to explain it- thin-skinned, when things don't go their way they really don't like it and get upset. This is fine, but it's also frustrating when trying to discuss solutions to potential issues and nameless is there decrying how the high standards of tg are about to fall.

I don't think they're a bad person by any means, I just think them to be incredibly emotionally immature which makes it difficult to be on the other side of an argument to them as they will say some pretty outlandish things and act incredibly melodramatic.

if this isn't the most childish reaction lol

[TheRex9001]

lol, lmao even.

[Justice12354]

You're being silly, sinful. If you really believe an admin is that childish, you should just complain to the headmins so they can keep an eye out on them (don't tell this to the others, but you can DM them). There is nothing more toxic to the admin team (and consequentially the playerbase) than an admin who does shit incorrectly and cannot see their own mistake, followed up by begrudgingly punishing (directly or indirectly) the player who called them out.

However, this is a hard thing to prove anyway, so you shouldn't go around blindly accusing admins of being begrudging pieces of shit, because that won't lead you anywhere in the first place. In the case you don't have proof of that yourself, why assume the admins will hold a grudge against you? I wouldn't. I'd be like "Eh, what did I do to this guy?" but I'd then just deal with it and move on because acceptance is necessary to improve from our mistakes (100% confirmed true fact). I understand that maybe not every admin may see it the same way as I do, but I bet the majority of us just want to use that feedback to do stuff better. At the end of the day, we're not here because we enjoy the power trip (sometimes (many times) it's actually a fucking headache to admin), but because we want to improve the players' experience (or at least we try to).

When I went to college, there was a feedback system for students to leave feedback on their professors. Not only was this anonymous, but the school went to even greater lengths -- your review wasn't even released to the professors until after your final grades were submitted. This was so that they couldn't deduce who the student that reviewed them was, and then possibly grade them differently.

I share this for one reason: if the powers that be decided that bias is a significant enough of a risk to PhD college professors to both anonymize and delay the release of their reviews, what makes you think SS13 admins are anymore immune?

We are here with the objective of making your experience better. Your professor is there to get paid.
If you believe the former is false, talk to the headmins and inform them of anyone that's out of line.

[conrad]

I don't know if I should feel happy or sad that Sinful compared the average level of petiness of an admin with that of a college professor.

[sinfulbliss]

/tg/ Admins do not affect your future prospects in the job market.

You're comparing a degree in college to bans from one ss13 server.

I’m not comparing them at all. I’m giving it as an example to show that, clearly if bias exists among PhD professors over reviews, it must exist for SS13 admins?

It’s a very braindead response to a parallel being drawn to just be like “HURRR DURR DA TWO ARENT DEY SAME LOL!!”

[The Wrench]

/tg/ Admins do not affect your future prospects in the job market.

You're comparing a degree in college to bans from one ss13 server.

I’m not comparing them at all. I’m giving it as an example to show that, clearly if bias exists among PhD professors over reviews, it must exist for SS13 admins?

It’s a very braindead response to a parallel being drawn to just be like “HURRR DURR DA TWO ARENT DEY SAME LOL!!”

Sinful is right this time

[sinfulbliss]

We are here with the objective of making your experience better. Your professor is there to get paid.
If you believe the former is false, talk to the headmins and inform them of anyone that's out of line.

In both cases the reviews are so that the individual being reviewed can improve and make others’ experiences better.

As it turns out it’s simply a matter of people not taking kindly to critical remarks, whether that’s for their own improvement or not.

[Archie700]

I’m not comparing them at all. I’m giving it as an example to show that, clearly if bias exists among PhD professors over reviews, it must exist for SS13 admins?

It’s a very braindead response to a parallel being drawn to just be like “HURRR DURR DA TWO ARENT DEY SAME LOL!!”

We all get you point that an admins can be biased from your first post, this is why

1. We have a headmin review system to override any bans you feel is unfair (biased or otherwise).
2. A complaint can be filed if an admin who you have lodged a complaint with or left bad feedback for has enacted a ruling which was discovered to be unfair to you given evidence.

I have directly linked you to a complaint where an admin was found to be biased against the player and was demoted from admin for it. Said admin had an outstanding complaint from the player.

I'm sorry if I interpreted it wrongly, but I already got your point from the beginning that there is bias and made the comparison to college, which take bias from professors much more seriously due to the importance of grades and formality. No one is disputing this, so I don't get why you, a person so outspoken about his beliefs, suddenly get worried about biased rulings when people are saying that you can leave bad reviews.

[sinfulbliss]

I’m not comparing them at all. I’m giving it as an example to show that, clearly if bias exists among PhD professors over reviews, it must exist for SS13 admins?

It’s a very braindead response to a parallel being drawn to just be like “HURRR DURR DA TWO ARENT DEY SAME LOL!!”

We all get you point that an admins can be biased from your first post, this is why

1. We have a headmin review system to override any bans you feel is unfair (biased or otherwise).
2. A complaint can be filed if an admin who you have lodged a complaint with or left bad feedback for has enacted a ruling which was discovered to be unfair to you given evidence.

I have directly linked you to a complaint where an admin was found to be biased against the player and was demoted from admin for it. Said admin had an outstanding complaint from the player.

I'm sorry if I interpreted it wrongly, but I already got your point from the beginning that there is bias and made the comparison to college, which take bias from professors much more seriously due to the importance of grades and formality. No one is disputing this, so I don't get why you, a person so outspoken about his beliefs, suddenly get worried about biased rulings when people are saying that you can leave bad reviews.

Because I feel that in stating all of this, you are trying to "write off" the fact that admins are vulnerable to biases over being critiqued.
A clause in the rules that says "don't enforce rules if you're biased" won't stop bias. Headmin review won't stop bias. An admin 3 years ago getting whacked for ruling in a biased manner won't scare off bias.

The only way to completely ensure you're not treated in a biased manner? Don't give them a reason to treat you in a biased manner! That includes critical remarks on their feedback threads.

It's not always going to be these super obvious cases of an admin banning a guy with an open complaint on him. Sometimes it'll be subtle -- maybe they hop on to take someone's urgent ahelp against you when ordinarily they wouldn't have bothered. Maybe they give the other guy the benefit of the doubt or give you a harder time in the ticket to prove your case. There are hundreds of subtle ways bias can impact a player and I don't intend on inviting any of them!

[zxaber]

Sinful, you give way more ammo to a hypothetical vindictive admin with your gameplay style than anything you could possibly write in a feedback thread.

[Kendrickorium]

You're being silly, sinful. If you really believe an admin is that childish, you should just complain to the headmins so they can keep an eye out on them (don't tell this to the others, but you can DM them). There is nothing more toxic to the admin team (and consequentially the playerbase) than an admin who does shit incorrectly and cannot see their own mistake, followed up by begrudgingly punishing (directly or indirectly) the player who called them out.

However, this is a hard thing to prove anyway, so you shouldn't go around blindly accusing admins of being begrudging pieces of shit, because that won't lead you anywhere in the first place. In the case you don't have proof of that yourself, why assume the admins will hold a grudge against you? I wouldn't. I'd be like "Eh, what did I do to this guy?" but I'd then just deal with it and move on because acceptance is necessary to improve from our mistakes (100% confirmed true fact). I understand that maybe not every admin may see it the same way as I do, but I bet the majority of us just want to use that feedback to do stuff better. At the end of the day, we're not here because we enjoy the power trip (sometimes (many times) it's actually a fucking headache to admin), but because we want to improve the players' experience (or at least we try to).

When I went to college, there was a feedback system for students to leave feedback on their professors. Not only was this anonymous, but the school went to even greater lengths -- your review wasn't even released to the professors until after your final grades were submitted. This was so that they couldn't deduce who the student that reviewed them was, and then possibly grade them differently.

I share this for one reason: if the powers that be decided that bias is a significant enough of a risk to PhD college professors to both anonymize and delay the release of their reviews, what makes you think SS13 admins are anymore immune?

are you really comparing college professors grading papers to teegee pixel spacemen admins that might be more eager at looking into ahelps specifically against you o.O

[Archie700]

Being paranoid about bias admins to the point that you refuse to give feedback in fear they will use it against you is not improving the admin quality, sinful.
Neither is not bothering to complain about said bias when it does happen.

[TypicalRig]

i dont think i ever remembered the name of anyone who posted in my feedback thread when I was an admin so that's an unfounded fear. Admins are much more likely to know who you are from your constant peanut thread soapboxing

this is exactly what someone who remembers everything in their feedback thread would say

[SkeletalElite]

/tg/ Admins do not affect your future prospects in the job market.

You're comparing a degree in college to bans from one ss13 server.

That doesn't make anonymous feedback a bad idea, though.

[sinfulbliss]

Sinful, you give way more ammo to a hypothetical vindictive admin with your gameplay style than anything you could possibly write in a feedback thread.

I know, I have heard plenty of grumbling from you in dchat with what you think about my gameplay style

[yobihodazine2]

Yes everyone should complain about the admins it works great

[Misdoubtful]

[datorangebottle]

Being paranoid about bias admins to the point that you refuse to give feedback in fear they will use it against you is not improving the admin quality, sinful.
Neither is not bothering to complain about said bias when it does happen.

Out of everyone here, Sinful is someone who has a right to be paranoid about biased admins.
Biased admins have bit him in the ass before.

[Archie700]

/tg/ Admins do not affect your future prospects in the job market.

You're comparing a degree in college to bans from one ss13 server.

That doesn't make anonymous feedback a bad idea, though.

I never said anything about anonymous feedback being a bad idea. It was never a bad idea. I'm talking about the severity of his comparison.

Out of everyone here, Sinful is someone who has a right to be paranoid about biased admins.
Biased admins have bit him in the ass before.

That doesn't mean holding back criticism is the right way to deal with it.

[sinfulbliss]

Out of everyone here, Sinful is someone who has a right to be paranoid about biased admins.
Biased admins have bit him in the ass before.

That doesn't mean holding back criticism is the right way to deal with it.

Let me level with you a bit. I'm not paranoid about admins. Most admins already know me and probably have mostly formed their varying opinions of me so that ship has sailed.
On a holistic level, I find leaving negative feedback never makes sense, if we go through all the possible reasons to leave it.

A) Based on an event. I find admin events rare and want to empower more of them. Leaving negative feedback for an event I disliked will only discourage the admin from pushing buttons, which I'd hate to see.
B) Based on enforcement (notes/bans). This is only allowed if you've both appealed and had your appeal accepted, so it's very niche, and even then only makes sense in the rare instance malice was involved in their conduct.
C) Based on general demeanor. I'm morally opposed to the belief admins should be bureaucratic and "held to a higher standard" socially, so I'd avoid this unless it's some egregiously patronizing "better-than-thou" attitude. But that's usually incredibly subtle and thus too petty to put in feedback.
D) Based on ticket conduct. Here is the best candidate for negative feedback. Some admins handle tickets better than others. But I worry that nitpicking over ticket conduct would make admins dread to take my tickets, which are often supportmin tickets. They are volunteers and sacrificing their time to handle my issue, so it feels icky and petty to then critique them over it. The exceptions are incredibly dismissive and hostile tickets, but the admins that have that sort of conduct won't be amenable to constructive criticism anyway.

Therefore, negative feedback never makes sense! However the anonymity idea would probably solve some of these.

[Kendrickorium]

if you don't do anything wrong you dont have to worry about biased admins

[Kendrickorium]

[/quote]
A) Leaving negative feedback for an event I disliked will only discourage the admin from pushing buttons, which I'd hate to see.

[/quote]

hohoho not if i was an admin

[Kendrickorium]

i fucking hate quotes

[Timonk]

lol, lmao even.

Gonna leave an audit in your admin feedback thread in the coming days. You better hope to be on your best behavior.

[yobihodazine2]

Kendrick likes pigs, not surprised

[Kendrickorium]

Kendrick likes pigs, not surprised

someone get rid of this bozo already

[Archie700]

Let me level with you a bit. I'm not paranoid about admins. Most admins already know me and probably have mostly formed their varying opinions of me so that ship has sailed.
On a holistic level, I find leaving negative feedback never makes sense, if we go through all the possible reasons to leave it.

A) Based on an event. I find admin events rare and want to empower more of them. Leaving negative feedback for an event I disliked will only discourage the admin from pushing buttons, which I'd hate to see.
B) Based on enforcement (notes/bans). This is only allowed if you've both appealed and had your appeal accepted, so it's very niche, and even then only makes sense in the rare instance malice was involved in their conduct.
C) Based on general demeanor. I'm morally opposed to the belief admins should be bureaucratic and "held to a higher standard" socially, so I'd avoid this unless it's some egregiously patronizing "better-than-thou" attitude. But that's usually incredibly subtle and thus too petty to put in feedback.
D) Based on ticket conduct. Here is the best candidate for negative feedback. Some admins handle tickets better than others. But I worry that nitpicking over ticket conduct would make admins dread to take my tickets, which are often supportmin tickets. They are volunteers and sacrificing their time to handle my issue, so it feels icky and petty to then critique them over it. The exceptions are incredibly dismissive and hostile tickets, but the admins that have that sort of conduct won't be amenable to constructive criticism anyway.

Therefore, negative feedback never makes sense! However the anonymity idea would probably solve some of these.

A) Fair, though I believe there should at least be feedback for egregious cases like say "spamming meteors at the start of the round without warning" as a benchmark.
B) Rarity is a valid point, but if the ban is proven to be malicious or a result of a grudge, the admin is clearly in much more trouble than just "bad review on his feedback"
C) Fair enough, general behaviour is harder to pin down and it's more effective to highlight specific incidents for something to stand on.
D) See B. Also, I believe admins should be taken to task for bad ticket handling because they must be neutral in tone when it comes to handling tickets regardless of who is doing it. If they can't do that, they should hand it over to other admins. Also, if the admin is incredibly dismissive and hostile and won't listen as you said, you should air it out so that they will be forced to answer to other, more powerful people on their behaviour.

I can see how the anonymity idea would work for A and C. Not B and D though, because those complaints require specific information that only the player and admin would know and won't work unless the complaint is directly kept hidden from the admin.

[yobihodazine2]

someone get rid of this bozo already

That word applies to you, too

[yobihodazine2]

Literally just got permabanned for pissing off the headmins and yall are talking about how it doesn't happen

[oranges]

Literally just got permabanned for pissing off the headmins and yall are talking about how it doesn't happen

since you seem to have forgotten

[yobihodazine2]

Yeah and you think anyone else gonna get perma'd for a singular kill in the name of starting the engine, or for nearly dying to a bunch of lasers? Obviously yall are doing your best to justify it, but the fact of the matter is you have access to the notes, you can write the ban reason, and you possess complete control over the narrative. All I can do is maximize my self satisfaction, because I know I don't deserve it. And I know why it happened.

[yobihodazine2]

There's the threat right at the bottom. Also you are all way better at insulting people than me, I don't understand why you're so butthurt.

[Archie700]

Yeah and you think anyone else gonna get perma'd for a singular kill in the name of starting the engine, or for nearly dying to a bunch of lasers? Obviously yall are doing your best to justify it, but the fact of the matter is you have access to the notes, you can write the ban reason, and you possess complete control over the narrative. All I can do is maximize my self satisfaction, because I know I don't deserve it. And I know why it happened.

Yobi is completely right in that his ban is because of bias.

The headmin team is biased against yobi.
The admin team is biased against yobi.
The playerbase is biased against yobi.
Everyone is biased against yobi.

Please stop shooting yourself in the foot/hand/chest/head/groin and leave this place for better pastures, you're that crazy employee who has one month's notice and spends it shitting on the floor in front of everyone.

[yobihodazine2]

It's unfortunate because I like playing here with you all or I wouldn't make such a big deal about it. I don't really understand what I've done to you that is so bad. I simply do not back down from anyone when I'm feeling righteous. It must really hurt your feelings that I'm so mentally impregnable.

[TheRex9001]

lol, lmao even.

Gonna leave an audit in your admin feedback thread in the coming days. You better hope to be on your best behavior.

Are you gonna Ask to speak to my manager….

[yobihodazine2]

The nastiness displayed by Mr Timberpoes absolutely dwarfs anything I've said to any admins. And yet I'm banned for my own attitude. I think perhaps I do not have the status to stand as tall as I was trying to stand.

[yobihodazine2]

In fact, many of you, when met with my angry, shallow insults, have come back with cold, thoughtful ones. That, apparently, was not enough. I must pay for proving you're not all rainbows and sunshine. I must pay for daring to be different. I must pay for my attempts to expose and/or galvanize people.

And no mention of the good I have done for everyone. Just "look how many notes he's got lul", was just playing Fulp and the guy said I was so fast at med I should be cmo. Go figure.

[dirk_mcblade]

Yeah and you think anyone else gonna get perma'd for a singular kill in the name of starting the engine, or for nearly dying to a bunch of lasers? Obviously yall are doing your best to justify it, but the fact of the matter is you have access to the notes, you can write the ban reason, and you possess complete control over the narrative. All I can do is maximize my self satisfaction, because I know I don't deserve it. And I know why it happened.

Bro I got banned one time for bolting lizards' escape paths as AI when a dragon was running amuck, I didn't even directly kill them.
If I kept doing shit like that the ban lengths would be increasing.
Calm down, play on another server, and appeal in one year.

[yobihodazine2]

Bro I got banned one time for bolting lizards' escape paths as AI when a dragon was running amuck, I didn't even directly kill them.
If I kept doing shit like that the ban lengths would be increasing.
Calm down, play on another server, and appeal in one year.

I am not a bad player. I quit for a fucking year over a 2 week ban. I listen to my notes. I admit when I am wrong. I am not going to lay down and act like I deserve this. Instead I will find personal satisfaction in all of your wrongness.

[Archie700]

I'm just going to tell you to actually shut up and read all of the ban appeal/complaint threads you made before your permanent ban.

search.php?author_id=116974&sr=topics&sf=firstpost

Every single thread was filled with your whining. Every single thread, you threw a tantrum when things did not go your way. Every. Single. Fucking. Thread. Rejected. And. Told. To. Cool. Off. Your. Attitude

The Vekter one in particular was perplexing because you went into a hissyfit over Vekter banning a guy for 12 hours for sexism when you got 2 weeks for metagrudge even though

• The ban was a year ago.
• You appealled multiple times and got rejected for it.
• Vekter wasn't even the banning admin for that time.

Not to mention your behaviour on peanut appeals, which is an exceptional case of why "people shouldn't talk in their own peanut".

You go on tirades over windmills to the point you turned everyone into a windmill, and everyone is completely happy to fulfill this role because it's you. You are basically the reason why it has gotten so bad for you.

And Timber's threat? It came true because you could never stop yourself, so someone had to stop you.

People had tried to tell you, nicely or rudely, that it was your fault it has gotten this bad. Your response was always to blame others, from the admins to other players to your sister to anyone else for your troubles. I have not heard a single line that shows that you admit fault for anything you do.

[yobihodazine2]

I was starting to calm down and make a few friends and they show up with their grudge on me at 4am on my 4 day weekend and ban me for lynching a guy who hid the fucking spare so we couldn't set up power.

[dirk_mcblade]

Bro I got banned one time for bolting lizards' escape paths as AI when a dragon was running amuck, I didn't even directly kill them.
If I kept doing shit like that the ban lengths would be increasing.
Calm down, play on another server, and appeal in one year.

I am not a bad player. I quit for a fucking year over a 2 week ban. I listen to my notes. I admit when I am wrong. I am not going to lay down and act like I deserve this. Instead I will find personal satisfaction in all of your wrongness.

OUR wrongness? I didn't even ban you dude. I even warned you specifically why you were going to get banned for constantly sperging out, but you didn't change your behavior. Did you think I was just bullshitting you when I told you to stop hassling the admins?

[yobihodazine2]

Yeah I go on tirades, so fucking what. The only person who has gone out of their way to actually refute my points is Armodias, and still no one is talking about how the RD wouldn't set up power and hid the stupid spare. No one wants to address the central point - the station needs power, the acting captain is preventing setup of power. I think they were sorely overdue for someone like me to rib them for their behavior.

[yobihodazine2]

Yes Dirk, YOUR wrongness. Because you are acting based on information they are carefully curating. People who possess power deserve to be tested.

[dirk_mcblade]

I explained previously that the admins are unpaid and their time is limited and if you kept wasting their time frivolously they'd start considering removing you from the server.
And guess what? The next time you fucked up and murdered someone over not playing command the way you thought they should, they clapped your ass.
I'm not going to pretend I'm your friend, you acted vaguely threatening one time and that was pretty weird, but I don't think I've been unfair in how I treated you, I even tried to warn you against getting yourself banned from the server, and I'm still advising you to just play on a different server quietly and come back in a year with a vouch. You throwing tantrums with the month you got left isn't going to make the admins sympathetic to your permaban appeal a year from now.

[yobihodazine2]

I have not heard a single line that shows that you admit fault for anything you do.

And this is just wrong. I've admitted fault both on the forums and during in-game admin interactions. It's even in my notes "mistakenly killed a guy, was apologetic in ahelps."

[yobihodazine2]

Vaguely threatening?!?! I am not threatening nor have I ever tried to threaten anyone here. Especially not you. I have no idea who you are.

[dirk_mcblade]

Vaguely threatening?!?! I am not threatening nor have I ever tried to threaten anyone here. Especially not you. I have no idea who you are.

Oh right, you posting that selfie of yourself cosplaying as buffalo bill and saying something to the effect of "Yeah you want to come fight me?" When I joked about whether that counted as doxing yourself. All that was just normal online behavior.

[yobihodazine2]

I'm sorry but if anything you mentioning anyone doxing me is a threat, and I am perfectly in the right to defend myself against anyone who wants to invade my personal life.

[Archie700]

It clearly does not feel like it, since many times you just give up and say "you win admins, I give" which just gives me the impression that you say that because you don't want to bother arguing.

To put it clearly, you were permanently banned because you decided to execute an acting RD for not setting up power with no evidence that he was an antagonist AFTER he was subdued (overescalation and rule 1), left his body behind, and killed someone who helped you subdue the RD because he didn't agree with execution (overescalation) and you're still denying any responsibility that it's your fault this entire incident happened and blaming Armodias, who banned you, and Timber, who wasn't even the only one that validated your ban.

[dirk_mcblade]

I'm sorry but if anything you mentioning anyone doxing me is a threat, and I am perfectly in the right to defend myself against anyone who wants to invade my personal life.

You posted your own photo, who is doxing you? Haha. That doesn't even make sense. Don't post your own photo. Don't challenge internet people to fights. Stop arguing with the admins, and don't kill players unless you roll antag. That's a pretty good roadmap to playing again on tg in a year and not getting banned again.

[yobihodazine2]

You're missing the point. He purposefully hid his ID and refused to tell anyone where it is or help at all. The situation is so messy and you are so adamant that you know exactly what happened that you think you can ignore the reason why I did it.