Nut Your Self

[conrad]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34288

The bar to play here is already pretty low. This is just sad.

[sinfulbliss]

As for the person who's supposedly causing you to have these outbursts? We are watching them and, if we find any wrongdoing, it'll be addressed.

I’m not gonna lie this combined with the “I'm explicitly asking him and others to notify me if they believe you're breaking the rules” bit is spooky as hell

I mean, you and I already had a conversation about it. I'm trying to filter out the people going "AXLE BAD HE KILL ME" from people with legitimate concerns. If there aren't any, we're good.

It still makes me itchy because if your ticket for entry to the “legitimate concerns” department is why I walked into robo on a round 10 days ago as a zombie and then “hmm not buying it” when I chuck out a guess cause I don’t even remember what I ate for breakfast 2 days ago, it is gonna be a lot harder to play the game.

You see the issue isn’t the players coping in ahelps braindeadedly, the issue is when they get a little smarter and channel their mald into “issues” they know admins would actually investigate and give the other player a hard time about, like serxule did, because the ahelper is always given the benefit of the doubt, sorta like guilty until proven innocent.

[Vekter]

It still makes me itchy because if your ticket for entry to the “legitimate concerns” department is why I walked into robo on a round 10 days ago as a zombie and then “hmm not buying it” when I chuck out a guess cause I don’t even remember what I ate for breakfast 2 days ago, it is gonna be a lot harder to play the game.

You see the issue isn’t the players coping in ahelps braindeadedly, the issue is when they get a little smarter and channel their mald into “issues” they know admins would actually investigate and give the other player a hard time about, like serxule did, because the ahelper is always given the benefit of the doubt, sorta like guilty until proven innocent.

Did I punish you for that? I don't recall even noting you for it, so obviously I believed it didn't have enough merit to act on it.

I'll make you the promise that, if anyone brings up any issue involving you, I'll pass it through other admins before I actually act on it so that there's no concern of bias.

[conrad]

As for the person who's supposedly causing you to have these outbursts? We are watching them and, if we find any wrongdoing, it'll be addressed.

I’m not gonna lie this combined with the “I'm explicitly asking him and others to notify me if they believe you're breaking the rules” bit is spooky as hell

I mean, you and I already had a conversation about it. I'm trying to filter out the people going "AXLE BAD HE KILL ME" from people with legitimate concerns. If there aren't any, we're good.

It still makes me itchy because if your ticket for entry to the “legitimate concerns” department is why I walked into robo on a round 10 days ago as a zombie and then “hmm not buying it” when I chuck out a guess cause I don’t even remember what I ate for breakfast 2 days ago, it is gonna be a lot harder to play the game.

You see the issue isn’t the players coping in ahelps braindeadedly, the issue is when they get a little smarter and channel their mald into “issues” they know admins would actually investigate and give the other player a hard time about, like serxule did, because the ahelper is always given the benefit of the doubt, sorta like guilty until proven innocent.

These decisions are never about just one admin, and there's a lot of back and forth on the validity of stuff.

Serxule's case was simple as "how many times did he tell someone to kill themselves? How often does he mald like that" The answer was A LOT.

[iansdoor]

At least one positive note, the thought of self help is there! I hope they take a solid break from this shitty evil space game.

I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I started looking through his logs and just gave up partway through. He hasn't been improving, just nobody bothered to tell us.

No no, I am not going to refute the current and past evidence. They look like where I was sometimes, with the burnout. I am mentioning that, they might take a long break and unwind their issues, as they mentioned that their mental health was unhealthy. The space madness happens to us all, at some point, and also hard to admit unhealthy mentality as well.

[sinfulbliss]

It still makes me itchy because if your ticket for entry to the “legitimate concerns” department is why I walked into robo on a round 10 days ago as a zombie and then “hmm not buying it” when I chuck out a guess cause I don’t even remember what I ate for breakfast 2 days ago, it is gonna be a lot harder to play the game.

You see the issue isn’t the players coping in ahelps braindeadedly, the issue is when they get a little smarter and channel their mald into “issues” they know admins would actually investigate and give the other player a hard time about, like serxule did, because the ahelper is always given the benefit of the doubt, sorta like guilty until proven innocent.

Did I punish you for that? I don't recall even noting you for it, so obviously I believed it didn't have enough merit to act on it.

I'll make you the promise that, if anyone brings up any issue involving you, I'll pass it through other admins before I actually act on it so that there's no concern of bias.

I don’t think you’re biased against me at all, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s odd to bwoink over something THAT old. Particularly something so minor

My point was more about, needing to defend every accusation with no limit to either severity or time passed since would make it quite exhausting to play. Admins should vet the complaints a bit to see if they have merit before creating a ticket over it which could disrupt rounds if the ticket drags on too long

[Vekter]

I don’t think you’re biased against me at all, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s odd to bwoink over something THAT old. Particularly something so minor

My point was more about, needing to defend every accusation with no limit to either severity or time passed since would make it quite exhausting to play. Admins should vet the complaints a bit to see if they have merit before creating a ticket over it which could disrupt rounds if the ticket drags on too long

I was admittedly going off of what Serxule told me and, as we know, he's a little biased. That being said, there's not really a statute of limitations on breaking the rules here, so I think I was valid to question you about it. I coulda been a little less aggressive, though. Ideally people are reporting when these things happen, but for some reason the lowpop gang on both Sybil and Basil really fucking hate telling us when someone's doing a bad, so I don't know what else I can do other than actively being there.

[MooCow12]

Serxule threatening to metagrudge x sec player griefing them kind of reminds me of reider meiza though.

People stopped treating reider as if he had super meta protection as sec and were quick to lynch him as soon as he looked like he was going to do something wrong it was a textbook definition of metagrudge in mass.

I assume thats what Serxule meant, especially when they said "I should have killed him instantly" combat in this game isnt like someone attacks me so i attack them back its someone walked up next to me and stunlocked me long enough to kill me or cuff me so I have no way to do anything.

This is one of the main issues with stuncombat it doesnt really make RP unless you consider call of duty gamer rage / shit talk RP.

Should they go to an admin each and every time? Yes definitely because now you`ve made your negative interaction with that player official, even if admins dont do anything in the future itl be much easier to show that you had issues with x.

Should they bitch in dead chat? Yes definitely everyone does it, we had crowds of people bitching over Reider in dead chat and alive over radio.

Should they tell people to kill themselves? Only on April Fool`s week because holy fuck is the game not worth playing during that time, everyone should do that and dnr and just not play the game until its over.

[dirk_mcblade]

I don’t think you’re biased against me at all, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s odd to bwoink over something THAT old. Particularly something so minor

My point was more about, needing to defend every accusation with no limit to either severity or time passed since would make it quite exhausting to play. Admins should vet the complaints a bit to see if they have merit before creating a ticket over it which could disrupt rounds if the ticket drags on too long

I was admittedly going off of what Serxule told me and, as we know, he's a little biased. That being said, there's not really a statute of limitations on breaking the rules here, so I think I was valid to question you about it. I coulda been a little less aggressive, though. Ideally people are reporting when these things happen, but for some reason the lowpop gang on both Sybil and Basil really fucking hate telling us when someone's doing a bad, so I don't know what else I can do other than actively being there.

You admins are all literally offline during lowpop and your team (understandably) doesn't want to jump from discord into a ticket so there isn't a point to ahelping. It's basically the same as dead dropping voicemails from 12 monkeys.

[sinfulbliss]

I don’t think you’re biased against me at all, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s odd to bwoink over something THAT old. Particularly something so minor

My point was more about, needing to defend every accusation with no limit to either severity or time passed since would make it quite exhausting to play. Admins should vet the complaints a bit to see if they have merit before creating a ticket over it which could disrupt rounds if the ticket drags on too long

I was admittedly going off of what Serxule told me and, as we know, he's a little biased. That being said, there's not really a statute of limitations on breaking the rules here, so I think I was valid to question you about it. I coulda been a little less aggressive, though. Ideally people are reporting when these things happen, but for some reason the lowpop gang on both Sybil and Basil really fucking hate telling us when someone's doing a bad, so I don't know what else I can do other than actively being there.

If there's no statute of limitations, that means players have to be able to defend every action from every single round they've played ever. That is sort of an unreasonable and insane requirement. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to remember the events of a round they played dozens of rounds or weeks in the past. What's the point of bwoinking if they shouldn't be expected to remember?

If someone ahelps an issue more than a day or two old, IMO the price of waiting that long is either A) the ticket doesn't get taken, or B) it's pretty serious. Metagaming is pretty serious, but I still think with issues that long in the past, admins really should come with some concrete evidence rather than subjecting a player to an investigation over an issue they 1) can't be expected to remember and 2) you have no reason to believe they are guilty of other than someone's ahelp.

[Vekter]

You admins are all literally offline during lowpop and your team (understandably) doesn't want to jump from discord into a ticket so there isn't a point to ahelping. It's basically the same as dead dropping voicemails from 12 monkeys.

I am online most days from around 9 AM to 5 PM unless I'm busy with work. I can't sit on the server all day, but I will respond to what urgents I can. We very rarely get any, so this sounds like an assumption.

If there's no statute of limitations, that means players have to be able to defend every action from every single round they've played ever. That is sort of an unreasonable and insane requirement. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to remember the events of a round they played dozens of rounds or weeks in the past. What's the point of bwoinking if they shouldn't be expected to remember?

If someone ahelps an issue more than a day or two old, IMO the price of waiting that long is either A) the ticket doesn't get taken, or B) it's pretty serious. Metagaming is pretty serious, but I still think with issues that long in the past, admins really should come with some concrete evidence rather than subjecting a player to an investigation over an issue they 1) can't be expected to remember and 2) you have no reason to believe they are guilty of other than someone's ahelp.

This is a fair point, I more meant that there wasn't one baked into the rules.

[MooCow12]

If there's no statute of limitations, that means players have to be able to defend every action from every single round they've played ever. That is sort of an unreasonable and insane requirement. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to remember the events of a round they played dozens of rounds or weeks in the past. What's the point of bwoinking if they shouldn't be expected to remember?

If an admin goes that far back they either have a really good reason to make it worth the effort (there will be effort) or the admin is hyper focused on a specific player.

[Vekter]

If there's no statute of limitations, that means players have to be able to defend every action from every single round they've played ever. That is sort of an unreasonable and insane requirement. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to remember the events of a round they played dozens of rounds or weeks in the past. What's the point of bwoinking if they shouldn't be expected to remember?

If an admin goes that far back they either have a really good reason to make it worth the effort (there will be effort) or the admin is hyper focused on a specific player.

In my defense, "using information you had when you were dead to come back and kill someone" is pretty high up there on the totem pole of shit you don't do.

I was also not aware that this had happened ten days ago because Serxule left that bit of information out.

[sinfulbliss]

If there's no statute of limitations, that means players have to be able to defend every action from every single round they've played ever. That is sort of an unreasonable and insane requirement. I'm not sure how someone is supposed to remember the events of a round they played dozens of rounds or weeks in the past. What's the point of bwoinking if they shouldn't be expected to remember?

If an admin goes that far back they either have a really good reason to make it worth the effort (there will be effort) or the admin is hyper focused on a specific player.

In my defense, "using information you had when you were dead to come back and kill someone" is pretty high up there on the totem pole of shit you don't do.

I was also not aware that this had happened ten days ago because Serxule left that bit of information out.

I thought you would’ve at least had the round logs open! Like… with no evidence I did anything wrong, going purely off of Serxule’s word (of all people): “I don’t buy it (you metagamed that).” “I expect you to follow the rules.” “I’ve asked people explicitly to report you in the future.”

The fact you approached it this way was just very bizarre. Is it custom to assume the ahelper is always right and just believe them, without checking any logs at all, and then grill the dude they accused? Then even going beyond that to ask several unrelated people to “report me when they see issues”? This just encourages people to weaponize admins out of spite, even if your motive is a good-faith one of wanting more people to ahelp on lowpop. I still don’t think you’re biased against me, but I hope you can see how fucky this approach is.

Spoiler:

To put both of our minds at ease, I managed to find the video of the round. I was a traitor in a conflict with mechs and robos. Serxule was an android who I encountered around robo maint that started attacking me for fucking with the robos and mechs. I died, was brought to med, romerol’d by a tot, then of course the first place I went was robo to look for him since 1) he came from robo to begin with, 2) he was working with the mechs and robos who I also wanted to kill, and 3) he was an android. Any one of these things would’ve been enough for that deduction, let alone all three.

[MooCow12]

"using information you had when you were dead to come back and kill someone"

lol do i even wanna know that story

[yobihodazine2]

A thing

Which is why after Armodias destroyed me with logic, I decided they must just be gullible instead of assholes. See, I can change!

[Kendrickorium]

I don’t think you’re biased against me at all, don’t get me wrong. I just think it’s odd to bwoink over something THAT old. Particularly something so minor

My point was more about, needing to defend every accusation with no limit to either severity or time passed since would make it quite exhausting to play. Admins should vet the complaints a bit to see if they have merit before creating a ticket over it which could disrupt rounds if the ticket drags on too long

I was admittedly going off of what Serxule told me and, as we know, he's a little biased. That being said, there's not really a statute of limitations on breaking the rules here, so I think I was valid to question you about it. I coulda been a little less aggressive, though. Ideally people are reporting when these things happen, but for some reason the lowpop gang on both Sybil and Basil really fucking hate telling us when someone's doing a bad, so I don't know what else I can do other than actively being there.

You admins are all literally offline during lowpop and your team (understandably) doesn't want to jump from discord into a ticket so there isn't a point to ahelping. It's basically the same as dead dropping voicemails from 12 monkeys.

bro i can't tell you the number of times vekter has shown up to deal with some shitter at 1 pm on sybil when like 15 people are playing
there is absolutely a point to ahelping and people whining "ADMINS NEVER DO ANYTHING" are part of the problem

[Kendrickorium]

Serxule threatening to metagrudge x sec player griefing them kind of reminds me of reider meiza though.

People stopped treating reider as if he had super meta protection as sec and were quick to lynch him as soon as he looked like he was going to do something wrong it was a textbook definition of metagrudge in mass.

I assume thats what Serxule meant, especially when they said "I should have killed him instantly" combat in this game isnt like someone attacks me so i attack them back its someone walked up next to me and stunlocked me long enough to kill me or cuff me so I have no way to do anything.

This is one of the main issues with stuncombat it doesnt really make RP unless you consider call of duty gamer rage / shit talk RP.

Should they go to an admin each and every time? Yes definitely because now you`ve made your negative interaction with that player official, even if admins dont do anything in the future itl be much easier to show that you had issues with x.

Should they bitch in dead chat? Yes definitely everyone does it, we had crowds of people bitching over Reider in dead chat and alive over radio.

Should they tell people to kill themselves? Only on April Fool`s week because holy fuck is the game not worth playing during that time, everyone should do that and dnr and just not play the game until its over.

a massive amount of players should have been banned for metagrudging reider