Grenade Bombing For The Greater Good

Post by **Archie700** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:23 am #694358

Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:06 am

Generally speaking, bombing antagonists is playing with fire, and if you mess it up you shouldn't be surprised to get dunked. Collateral is heavily weighed on everyone who uses bombs simply because using them is generally viewed as very 'play to win' in a way that can be quite unfun for everyone who has to then deal with the repercussions of your actions. The only way we keep them sensible in the hands of nonantagonists is scrutinizing the context of every decision they make to utilize bomb with a fine tooth comb.

This guy either has the comprehension of a tuna fish, or his severe belligerent behaviour is entirely due to having no ability of self reflection or understanding that maybe, just maybe, wiping out antagonists isn't worth wiping out half a shuttle along with it. Becoming the thing that kills everyone on the shuttle does not stop the scenario in which half the shuttle is killed, you just basically shoehorned yourself into the position of the one to do it while not as a role enabled to cause that kind of destruction.

serxule · Post by **serxule** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:45 am #694360

1. seemingly new player (appears to not understand a majority of the game with the excuse "im not a coder")
2. makes a nitroglycerin chem factory for grenades on manuel
3. uses said grenades in high-traffic/very crowded areas on manuel
4. "wtf i did nothing wrong"

Post by **dendydoom** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:22 pm #694364

another dumb bombing situation? no way

Post by **Sightld2** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:00 pm #694373

I don’t like that Vekter practically fought the first half of the appeal for Fish. But now I think its kinda funny how many people have gotten involved in the thread, including a Maintainer.

Scriptis · Post by **Scriptis** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:25 pm #694376

look, it's real simple. here's a checklist:

i) are you about to save a lot of people?
ii) do you have control over the situation that is about to unfold?
iii) as an alternative, is it going to be cool as fuck?

let's evaluate this appeal:

i) are you about to save a lot of people? - no, because you're killing everyone on the shuttle
ii) do you have control over the situation that is about to unfold? - no, because you don't even know how big your bombs are according to your appeal
iii) as an alternative, is it going to be cool as fuck? - no, this was lame as fuck, bog-standard idiot chemist grief

fuck around and find out my dudes

Not-Dorsidarf · Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:46 pm

I like that the title of the ban appeal can just be answered "yeah, usually"

RedBaronFlyer · Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:47 pm

I wish someone was recording because that bomb almost took out more people. No idea about the shuttle bomb (I took an escape pod) but IIRC the bomb in the hallway above the bar/kitchen leading to the engineering department killed/maimed like, six or so people* and full-body gibbed one person completely**. The dragon died like, two seconds later, not because of the bombs (it moved out of the way before it went off iirc) but because everyone was packing lasers.

*IIRC this included the captain, the CE, a security officer, and a few other crew. There were a lot of guys fighting the dragons. The whole crew was mobilized
**apparently this was the guy himself that got gibbed completely

Also, this appeal is filled with sass, what a good idea to have that in a ban appeal.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:56 pm #694387

Oh thank god someone finally made a peanut; I really didn't want to do it.

This is very clearly an example of someone with a hammer desperately searching for nails. He learned how to make basic glycerin bombs and wanted to use them. That's it, that's all it boils down to. He wanted to throw grenades at something so he did and is now trying to come up with justifications for doing so after the fact.

RedBaronFlyer · Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:03 pm

Fuck it. I will double-post. I'm too lazy to edit his post down but I'll comment on it.

Later on lots of people start calling out space dragons on comms and I walk into the main halls and see a dragon running away while fighting random crew in the halls. I time and throw a chemnade I made at it while it stopped to attack a different crew member. It hits the space dragon and as I prime the second nade it sticks to my hand or I end up lagging out, so it detonates in my hand killing me. I get revived as an MMI (someone took my brain) and get myself placed in an SSD assistant's body (Duncan Sawyer). I continue running the chem factory after getting a new ID from the HoP. (Also note that so far no one had complained about my use of the first 2 chemnades, one of which killed myself.)

Eh, some people complained in deadchat, I think most of the crew was just thrown off by it. I had thought someone's oxy/plasma tank had cooked off because of the fire or something.

Eventually the shuttle is called because the shift was already close to the 90 minute mark or so and people discover that there are nukies, specifically around the departures area. This happens just as the shuttle is arriving and I try and board the shuttle, but immediately get shot from multiple tiles away by a nukie which somehow got on board the escape shuttle. I epipen myself and go in to stop the nukie from hijacking the shuttle, and there were only like 2 people actually fighting the nukie. After I reenter I see the nukie lying down and assumed someone managed to shove the nukie into a wall, so I take advantage of the stun timing and throw a chemnade at them to finish them off. (It would only be later when looking through logs that I find out that the nukie actually took a lot of damage from the escape shuttle turrets, so they actually just got into crit.)

Again throwing a high explosive into a tight cramped space to kill a nukie is questionable. No idea what shuttle it was but most of them don't really have room to move around such things. I don't think he would have gotten in as much trouble had this been the first time in the shift he had a fucky wucky with explosives. Nukies are 100% a station-ending threat but you should use bombs with discretion because they are indiscriminate.

The explosion blows a hole in the north-east corner of the shuttle and as a ghost I saw that the HoS was actually already dead (they ran into the nukie shuttle turrets) and the captain was basically afk (hiding in the escape shuttle bridge), without even their MODsuit on or deployed. A minute or two later MrrFiish messages me about my use of chemnades, and after some back and forth decides to ban me. This is despite the fact that the nukie did manage to hijack the shuttle (judging from the "insignificant victory" they got). I guess maybe the nukies had been camping departures the whole time because a) the shuttle was almost arriving and b) their ship spawned next to departures. The nukie was also basically murderboning the people on the shuttle and everyone else who survived on the shuttle (maybe 10 people or so?) had been hiding in the shuttle bridge (including the captain, funnily enough) and the shuttle medbay. I am pretty certain that the only people caught in the blast were those actually fighting the nukie, everyone else was just hiding behind an airlock.

This isn't murderboning. Of course late spawning nukies would camp the shuttle, the captain is almost 100% certain to go onto the shuttle.

As for the dragon, I wasn't really able to tell if anyone else died with the space dragon nade as explosions don't really show up in the attack logs but I believe I reduced its HP by 100+. The dragon was also on the edge of my screen (8-9 tiles away maybe) so I couldn't really see how much damage I did before my second nade detonated in my hand and my vision went to black from dying.

People 100% died to the chem grenades for the dragon, the hall was packed with people fighting that dragon. It would have required divine intervention for no one to get hurt from that. Some people died in seconds after the bomb went off, others died shortly afterwards, some died on the way to medbay, etc. From my basic logdiving I see like, three or four people who died shortly after the bomb, either due to the bomb itself or because they got knocked down or into crit and the dragon finished them off. The only reason his brain wasn't thrown out an airlock was because no one knew what the fuck just happened.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

I used chemnades against major threats as a chemist (so the nades were part of "my job", in fact some maps have you spawn with the chemnade components on a table in the pharmacy). Even though there was some collateral damage I think it wasn't deliberate grief plus it was used against open antagonists killing people in the main halls. I think a 7 day ban is unwarranted given that I was using them as they were intended to be used and I threw them accurately (unless server lag messed up my perspective, I saw the nades land on the tile right next to the antags before they blew up).

Again this is shifting the blame. People are 100% responsible for any bombs they make. If you leave them on a desk and someone blows up people, that's on you. If you fire shotgun shots down the hallway and it also kills innocents, that's on you.

As far as weapons made by crew goes, I think it's unique and a little gimmicky enough that it's at least somewhat interesting when it happens (and keep in mind that it's not like I do this every single time), and is far more interesting than:
> Major threat shows up
> Cargo buys lasers
> Crew shoots lasers while hauling rechargers around

Yeah the crew tends to use lasers a lot, they can be recharged on site, can be bulk ordered, aren't too lethal that security overly gets in a fuss about them being handed out, can shoot through glass, does really well against most unarmored targets, etc. We had lasers because earlier in the shift there was a blob, but by the time the lasers were about to be delivered, the blob died. We brought them over to security, and they put them in the armory. When the dragons arrived, security AA-ed the armory and handed them out.

Additionally security was lacking that round for some reason (none were present for any of the fights I was in), so it's not like I could have just sat back and let sec handle the antags first.

IIRC security was decently on point that shift. No idea how many we had but they did a pretty good job of keeping the peace until the dragons. It was to the point that people were asking if the orbit was incorrect and that we were actually in a green orbit. I know we 100% had security officers, the detective, and the HOS fighting both dragons. It was kind of hard to tell them apart from the civilian crew at one point because almost everyone was in armor of some sort.

Anyway, as far as I can tell on MRP servers rarely does anyone die in the absence of major major threats and even with blobs they usually get discovered, ganged up on and killed by the entirety of crew (even heretics join in with heretic blades!) so almost no one dies (apart from maybe miners). I guess it's meant that most players on the server are not used to the concept of dying in a video game even though you should be expected to die sometimes. I suppose that's kind of why someone would ahelp dying in an explosion even though they're the one who ACTIVELY CHOSE to validhunt/fight a strong and well-equipped antag AS A CIVILIAN ROLE, despite the antag being far stronger than them (space dragon with tons of health and fire blasts and an Elite MOD nukie with a Bullpup). I personally am pretty sick of the desword stimpack nukie gaming meta so I didn't mind using a more potent weapon against one which was doing their murderboning thing on the escape shuttle. In any case, one of the docs who was fighting the nukie did like 5 damage per hit with an alien saw so it's pretty clear that civilian grade weapons won't be effective against nukies and it was only the heavy weapons (which happened to be the escape shuttle turrets and my nade) which took them down effectively.

Without going off on a tangent, I feel like part of the appeal of MRP is that it's SS13, but just a little less chaotic. I've tried sybil a few times and it's just a bit too wild for me. I get why people enjoy it, it just isn't my cup of tea. While it is true that some rounds the Manuel pop are scarily efficient at mobilizing against threats, other rounds it's a complete clusterfuck. Also, shifting blame to the crew is about as subtle as two trains colliding. He used an indiscriminate weapon and complains when he gets in trouble for it maiming/killing bystanders. This is no different than a guy suicide ttv-ing a rev and it also kills three non-revs. It's using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Complete overkill. On one hand, people should know that charging into a combat situation doesn't mean they won't get killed, yes, on the other hand, his actions caused more crew injuries/death than both dragons and the blob combined. Even in MRP if you leave security to fight mass threats (dragons/blob, etc.) the station will probably get swamped. There's a word of difference between making bolas, printing out a bonesaw, etc. and roaming maints to singlehandedly kill a heretic, versus a crew mass mobilizing to take on a serious station-wide threat. (not that heretics can't become a station-wide threat)

As someone who uses random names, I'm not one of those static name, soft metagaming players who make their gameplay based on "building a reputation" around their static IC character so I guess I'll give up on MRP at this point. Honestly at this point I've lost most interest in MRP servers since the culture there is clearly different from what I expected, I just want the cross-server ban to be removed from the LRP servers so I can play Sybil / Terry. You can keep the Manuel ban, I don't care for it.

Seems offtopic, on one hand, I agree that people tend to let others get away with stuff because they're buddies. I think that's dumb and I try to reset my relations with people at the end of each round. On the other hand, he's making it seem like "Oh woe is me, no one would be angry if I had a static name :^((((((" which isn't how that works. The guy had no retaliation against him for doing that. He's not a victim of metagangs, he's a victim of his own stupidity. Will Nodder is often a victim of metagangs and metagruding, not this guy.

References of good conduct: I only play /tg/ because of its good codebase. Fulpstation is the only other server I've ever played more than a few hours on and I left it because the admins there were completely dogshit who broke their own MRP rules when they were a player, metagamed with their metafriends, and sided with people who were obviously their metafriends, and I doubt /tg/ takes references or vouches from that shithole seriously.

Anything else we should know: If you wanna know if I have any other bans from other servers, I was perma'd from some ERP server with barely 1 hour of gameplay when I was new to SS13 (their whole purpose was to have furry internet seggs with strangers, there is literally no gameplay there). /tg/ bans ERP so I don't think anyone will think any lesser of me for that. In the case of fulp, funnily enough no one bothered to ban me although Horatio muted me on the fulp discord for exposing their admin abuse (even though I just asked for a headmin to read my grief patrol / staff complaint), and deleted my complaint post on the fulp forums like a coward instead of addressing the blatant rule-breaking by their own admin. Anyway, that's a whole different story, but you did ask me to be honest about bans from other servers.

Also good lord he overuses the term murderboning. Murderboning has no meaning because it's used too much, which is ironic that a person bemoaning the culture of MRP commits one of the most common MRP stereotypes, complaining about "murderboning" when it's not actually murderbone.

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:56 pm This is very clearly an example of someone with a hammer desperately searching for nails. He learned how to make basic glycerin bombs and wanted to use them. That's it, that's all it boils down to. He wanted to throw grenades at something so he did and is now trying to come up with justifications for doing so after the fact.

Basically this, yeah. Seems like he had those bombs sitting on his desk and was just itching for the moment to use them.

serxule · Post by **serxule** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:22 pm #694391

imo i'd perma this guy due to his appeal, he seems massively bad-faith and acts like a narcissist

"yeah i learned how to make grenades so i used them on antags but if other people get hurt thats their problem not mine, im just dealing with antags its not my fault the grenades i made and used killed multiple people its theirs and the admins fault, the admins clearly biased because i had perfect reason to blow up multiple people because it was their fault my grenade killed them not mine"

Post by **MrrFiish** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:56 pm #694397

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:00 pm I don’t like that Vekter practically fought the first half of the appeal for Fish. But now I think its kinda funny how many people have gotten involved in the thread, including a Maintainer.

I appreciate the help and also I would've done it but I was hoooonk mimimimi ngl

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:10 pm #694401

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:00 pm I don’t like that Vekter practically fought the first half of the appeal for Fish. But now I think its kinda funny how many people have gotten involved in the thread, including a Maintainer.

It's becoming a pattern that whenever an appeal becomes a spinning bottle of diet coke and mentos it fills with three or four people that are not involved.

RedBaronFlyer · Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:50 pm

It bugs me that he’s trying to argue that no one was fighting the dragon. That hallway was filled with people with laser guns. Including several security/command players. He’s making it sound like no one was doing anything but we were actively pushing the dragon back with the firepower we were pouring down the hall.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:21 pm #694413

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:00 pm I don’t like that Vekter practically fought the first half of the appeal for Fish. But now I think its kinda funny how many people have gotten involved in the thread, including a Maintainer.

Fair, I probably should've stayed out of it, but his attitude was getting on my nerves and I wanted to make sure someone came in with technical details on the actual bomb impact.

Post by **dendydoom** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:59 pm #694414

As far as I can tell none of the 3 people had guns or any weapons which would be effective in killing the dragon, so if I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING it is likely that the dragon which would have had 200+ HP before the nade could still have killed them as they were not actively RUNNING AWAY from the dragon as the chemnade detonated

"they killed themselves by not running away and their puny weapons are no match for my chemnades so it's their fault for being in my way and also the dragon would've killed them anyway so how can you really be mad at me?" is truly incredibly reasoning and i think they should not only be unbanned immediately but also make it so they spawn with a maxcap in their bag every round from now on so they can always keep the station safe from evil threats. a bomb beats everything, how could the crew be so stupid in trying to fight via any other means?

kinnebian · Post by **kinnebian** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:05 pm #694415

a unified peanut? everyones on the same page? i dont like this...

Post by **dendydoom** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:07 pm #694416

kinnebian wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:05 pm a unified peanut? everyones on the same page? i dont like this...

sinful and ekat haven't posted yet, give it time my dear kinneb

Itseasytosee2me · Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:19 pm

Oh it was a dragon? nevermind thats kinda based.

Boot · Post by **Boot** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:59 pm #694420

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:24 pm If you don't know what you're doing with your WMD, don't use them in a way that will negatively impact other players. If you kill innocent people with them either through malice OR ignorance, you will shoulder the consequences of doing so.

I don't think you can really use this headmin ruling to justify this.

As long as you can justify with your imperfect information I can’t really fault you for it.

I think that this shows that even if you don't know the exact blast radius of your WMD that you'll be ok under this ruling.
As a bonus meme Timber are you saying that if I blow a maxcap on a cult base that is in the process of summoning narsie and one innocent ends up dead that I should be given a dayban? That seems abit extreme and not in the spirit of the rule at all if you think that even if there is a station ending threat that if even one innocent is "negatively impacted" that suddenly the ban hammers need to come out.

Post by **Sightld2** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:40 pm #694423

That's not at all what he said. All those lines are saying is "not knowing how big your bomb is going to blow is not an excuse." That's not the crux of the argument.
The important part is "I'd like MrrFiish and the player to hash out if, quote, "it look[ed] like the station [was] going to be btfo’d if the thing [was] allowed to live""

In your example, obviously Nar'sie is about to end the round and it doesn't matter who gets caught in the crossfire.

Boot · Post by **Boot** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:26 am #694431

Sure but since this rule was updated due to rounds not ending and this still being allowed I still think that this matters. Like a heretic ascending isn't gonna literally end the round and even the example given of a murderboner who takes out most of sec is used. I think a case could be made that a dragon about to go supernova is a viable target.

Post by **Sightld2** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:48 am #694433

It most definitely would be. Which is why MrrFish confirmed for us that the Dragon died soon after getting one rift, and wasn't close to getting his third one off and going sicko mode

dirk_mcblade · Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:07 am

The shuttle bombing was pretty inexcusable but I think throwing a grenade at a dragon is justifiable. To be honest I've played this game a lot and I didn't know there's messages that you can tell when a dragon is about to end the round, I'm not sure it's fair to expect most players to know those mechanics.
On the other hand if there were a lot of people already fighting it and he lied that they weren't? That's a headmin review I wouldn't request.

RedBaronFlyer · Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:48 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:07 am The shuttle bombing was pretty inexcusable but I think throwing a grenade at a dragon is justifiable. To be honest I've played this game a lot and I didn't know there's messages that you can tell when a dragon is about to end the round, I'm not

IIRC there's some red text warning over comms followed shortly afterwards by a super loud dragon roar. It doesn't flat-out end the round like cultists or nukies, but I think at that point carps start coming out even faster and it tends to overwhelm the crew (combined with most people who die spawning as space carps at that point) It's kind of like how at a certain point spiders start rolling even harder because people who are 100% unrevivable as ghosts go and spawn as spider.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:07 am On the other hand if there were a lot of people already fighting it and he lied that they weren't? That's a headmin review I wouldn't request.

It was a few days ago now, but as one of the people who saw the dragon bomb go off, there were like, six or seven people in that hallway either running to the fight, withdrawing to get healed up, etc. I get why they thought using a bomb could be a good idea, but it absolutely wasn't in that case given the sheer amount of people in the hallway in close proximity to the dragon. He didn't even say something like "GET BACK, I'M GOING TO THROW A BOMB!" or something prior to that either. It's honestly just good timing that the first or second bomb in the dragon fight didn't kill more people. I think some people got hurt by the first bomb and began to retreat, which unfortunately meant they ran past him as he lagged out while holding another bomb about to explode.

I can't imagine the absolute bloodbath that would have happened if he chucked one of those things at the first dragon. It was in the HOS office, and there were, like, fifteen crew members all crammed into the room right next to the HOS office trying to shoot it with laser guns.

He's kind of come across as disingenuous this whole appeal, he's claiming no one was doing anything to stop the threats (they were), that security was nonexistent that round (they were in fact, keeping the peace), that no one was fighting the dragon (they were), that no one got killed by the bombs (they did), and that it was the crews' fault for dying as they were "validhunting" a giant firebreathing space lizard that is trying to kill everyone in the middle of a hallway right next to the bar and kitchen*.

*This would be like complaining that the crew "validhunted" a blob, that's not what validhunting is nor how validhunting works.

This is 100% a pointless ban appeal. It's extremely unlikely that he'd get that note removed. At best, he could get the ban reduced by some days.

Post by **Archie700** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:06 am #694465

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:48 am
dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:07 am The shuttle bombing was pretty inexcusable but I think throwing a grenade at a dragon is justifiable. To be honest I've played this game a lot and I didn't know there's messages that you can tell when a dragon is about to end the round, I'm not
IIRC there's some red text warning over comms followed shortly afterwards by a super loud dragon roar. It doesn't flat-out end the round like cultists or nukies, but I think at that point carps start coming out even faster and it tends to overwhelm the crew (combined with most people who die spawning as space carps at that point) It's kind of like how at a certain point spiders start rolling even harder because people who are 100% unrevivable as ghosts go and spawn as spider.

There are also messages for when a rift is 50% complete and fully complete that tells you explicitly where the rift is and where the dragon is most likely defending.

Unless you completely ignore command announcements, you WILL know a dragon is in station by the time he creates his third rift

Post by **dendydoom** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:41 am #694475

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:07 am The shuttle bombing was pretty inexcusable but I think throwing a grenade at a dragon is justifiable. To be honest I've played this game a lot and I didn't know there's messages that you can tell when a dragon is about to end the round, I'm not sure it's fair to expect most players to know those mechanics.
On the other hand if there were a lot of people already fighting it and he lied that they weren't? That's a headmin review I wouldn't request.

the issue isn't that they threw a powerful chemnade at a dragon in and of itself, it's that from the logs there were multiple people fighting it effectively (some were even running around with fire extinguishers putting people out who were burning) with various weapons, then the chemist decided to yeet one of their mini nukes into the middle of it all without a care for the collateral it would cause.

there were multiple ways to approach that situation if you really REALLY can't control yourself from having to blow a gigantic hole in the station in order to add a mark to your valid's killed sheet. why not hang back in the wings and help out until everyone is beat and then throw it? why not tell someone on command that you've made chemnades so you can formulate a plan like try to lure it somewhere that isn't CENTRAL PRIMARY for a trap where you blow them up? why not yell "HEY GET OUT OF THE WAY I'M ABOUT TO THROW A POWERFUL CHEMNADE!"? they didn't even attempt to do anything like that. they just went "well it's their fault for being in my way" and then blew up 5 of their fellow crew.

figuring out how to make explosives is very exciting the first time you do it. they become the ultimate solution to every problem. but you have to be careful and responsible with their use, and not blow up more of your own team than both of the antagonists that you were trying to kill combined.

TypicalRig · Post by **TypicalRig** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:59 am #694482

On Sybil and Terry every time it's war ops I have like five different people coming at me with suicide bombs, failing (thank you elite syndi suit bomb resistance), and killing their own crew in the process. It's a very boring play to win method and I'm kind of shocked admins don't go harder on this kind of playstyle since often "round ending threats in theory" vs "round ending threats in actual practice" (think nuke ops desperately trying to get the disk from an escape shuttle about to leave vs halo cult drawing a narsie rune) is a pretty easy to identify distinction. Dragons were nerfed into the ground since they have been unable to pick their portal locations and aren't nearly as threatening as they used to be.

But I think it's just easier to say that encouraging the meta of rushing antags with a bomb is boring and shouldn't really be encouraged in most capacities lol.

Lacran · Post by **Lacran** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:44 pm #694484

The guy clearly just wanted to test his big grenades on antags and didn't really care who it affected.

He didn't even test his own grenades before using them.

massa · Post by **massa** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:02 pm #694486

on hippiestation my friend suicide bombed a peaceful wizard and killed half of command and a shit ton of crew and it was all good

massa · Post by **massa** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:02 pm #694487

*superfart

Boot · Post by **Boot** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:03 pm #694523

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:59 am I'm kind of shocked admins don't go harder on this kind of playstyle since often "round ending threats in theory" vs "round ending threats in actual practice" (think nuke ops desperately trying to get the disk from an escape shuttle about to leave vs halo cult drawing a narsie rune) is a pretty easy to identify distinction.

I don't think its as clear cut as you make it out to be.

Post by **Vekter** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:20 pm #694525

Boot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:59 pm
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:24 pm If you don't know what you're doing with your WMD, don't use them in a way that will negatively impact other players. If you kill innocent people with them either through malice OR ignorance, you will shoulder the consequences of doing so.
I don't think you can really use this headmin ruling to justify this.
As long as you can justify with your imperfect information I can’t really fault you for it.
I think that this shows that even if you don't know the exact blast radius of your WMD that you'll be ok under this ruling.
As a bonus meme Timber are you saying that if I blow a maxcap on a cult base that is in the process of summoning narsie and one innocent ends up dead that I should be given a dayban? That seems abit extreme and not in the spirit of the rule at all if you think that even if there is a station ending threat that if even one innocent is "negatively impacted" that suddenly the ban hammers need to come out.

That's not what he's saying at all, he's saying that you damn well better be certain that the bomb you're setting off is going to stop the round from ending.

Also, he knew the impact of his bombs because he'd thrown one earlier in the round and continued to use them instead of realizing whatever he had was way too strong.

Boot · Post by **Boot** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:28 pm #694529

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:20 pm
Boot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:59 pm
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:24 pm If you don't know what you're doing with your WMD, don't use them in a way that will negatively impact other players. If you kill innocent people with them either through malice OR ignorance, you will shoulder the consequences of doing so.
I don't think you can really use this headmin ruling to justify this.
As long as you can justify with your imperfect information I can’t really fault you for it.
I think that this shows that even if you don't know the exact blast radius of your WMD that you'll be ok under this ruling.
As a bonus meme Timber are you saying that if I blow a maxcap on a cult base that is in the process of summoning narsie and one innocent ends up dead that I should be given a dayban? That seems abit extreme and not in the spirit of the rule at all if you think that even if there is a station ending threat that if even one innocent is "negatively impacted" that suddenly the ban hammers need to come out.
That's not what he's saying at all, he's saying that you damn well better be certain that the bomb you're setting off is going to stop the round from ending.

Also, he knew the impact of his bombs because he'd thrown one earlier in the round and continued to use them instead of realizing whatever he had was way too strong.

Well that's also very dumb since that was the ruling before it was removed then readded so it protected bombings that weren't for supposedly "round-ending" threats.

EmpressMaia · Post by **EmpressMaia** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:25 pm #694534

is this the peanut of the month

dirk_mcblade · Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:43 pm

Archie700 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:06 am
Unless you completely ignore command announcements, you WILL know a dragon is in station by the time he creates his third rift

I 100% ignore command announcements and that's probably a good portion of the reason. I don't even know which of the biohazard levels are for which thing.

dirk_mcblade · Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:15 pm

I want to see the salt posts though

TypicalRig · Post by **TypicalRig** » Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:52 pm #694546

Boot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 7:03 pm
TypicalRig wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 11:59 am I'm kind of shocked admins don't go harder on this kind of playstyle since often "round ending threats in theory" vs "round ending threats in actual practice" (think nuke ops desperately trying to get the disk from an escape shuttle about to leave vs halo cult drawing a narsie rune) is a pretty easy to identify distinction.
I don't think its as clear cut as you make it out to be.

it would be clear cut if they made the bare minimum effort of communication but people would rather refuse to communicate and blame it on lack of information than actually try to speak to people. god forbid

stairmaster · Post by **stairmaster** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:44 pm #694628

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:25 pm
ii) do you have control over the situation that is about to unfold? - no, because you don't even know how big your bombs are according to your appeal
iii) as an alternative, is it going to be cool as fuck? - no, this was lame as fuck, bog-standard idiot chemist grief

so what you're saying is he should have popped a bee grenade

Post by **Vekter** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:44 pm #694666

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:25 pm ii) do you have control over the situation that is about to unfold? - no, because you don't even know how big your bombs are according to your appeal

I keep trying to explain this to people, but had he thrown the first one and realized it was STUPID HUGE, then adminhelped and apologized, he probably wouldn't have been banned.

Instead, he threw the other ones he had, knowing they were likely going to be as big (if not bigger) as the one he threw before.

Constellado · Post by **Constellado** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:41 am #694721

huh, I was in this round and I loast an arm or two in the bomb. (EDIT: I DID NOT LOSE AN ARM BUT I WAS PUT INTO CRIT FROM IT)

I may have recorded it? I dont remember that part of the round!! I remember evreything else though. Funny, eh? If i dont remember an event like that I will call it a shitty moment. A moment that was not cool enough.
I'll hunt through my recordings and see if its in there. shame I didnt see this peanut earlier!! I'll chuck the evidence in the main thread if I find it.

I'll get to that in about 3 hours from this post.

Also to the appealant saying the captain was hiding in the shuttle bridge: My character is a coward and I was VERY distracted with a freshly killed bread-dog that just 15 minutes earlier was another player.
I was so distracted i didnt even realise there was a nukie (what? there was a nukie? am I looking at the same round?)

Constellado · Post by **Constellado** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:40 am #694741

here it is!!
both bombs in FULL DETAIL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_Kh-itHso
The audio got corrupted so there is no audio, sorry. If you really want I can see if I can get it out because I thought I heard its audio in the raw recording.

Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:00 am

wow that is a whiffed as fuck grenade against the dragon. Not even close to it. Just someone gibbed and killed another.

RedBaronFlyer · Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:01 am

Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:40 am here it is!!
both bombs in FULL DETAIL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_Kh-itHso
The audio got corrupted so there is no audio, sorry. If you really want I can see if I can get it out because I thought I heard its audio in the raw recording.

It's worse than I remember. Seems like they armed their second bomb without realizing it, and withdrew right as it blew up.

Also, good lord that explosion at 2:16 killed so many people. Was that the chemgrenade or was that a nukie's bomb implant? Seems like a bunch of people got hurled over towards the bridge right before it happened from another explosion.

dirk_mcblade · Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:24 am

Lmao the balls on this guy claiming no one was fighting the dragon. We got video evidence dude.
Actually I guess he said security wasn't fighting it. I guess he wins on a technicality.

Post by **Archie700** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:02 am #694758

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:01 am
Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:40 am here it is!!
both bombs in FULL DETAIL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_Kh-itHso
The audio got corrupted so there is no audio, sorry. If you really want I can see if I can get it out because I thought I heard its audio in the raw recording.
It's worse than I remember. Seems like they armed their second bomb without realizing it, and withdrew right as it blew up.

Also, good lord that explosion at 2:16 killed so many people. Was that the chemgrenade or was that a nukie's bomb implant? Seems like a bunch of people got hurled over towards the bridge right before it happened from another explosion.

Chain reaction from grenade, resulting in fuel tank and nuke ops exploding

07:04:56 GAME Reagent explosion reaction occurred at Emergency Shuttle (108,56,2). Last Fingerprint: lawlolawl.
07:04:56 GAME Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (Emergency Shuttle (108,56,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: lawlolawl/(Duncan Sawyer).
07:04:57 GAME Reagent explosion reaction occurred at Emergency Shuttle (108,56,2). Last Fingerprint: lawlolawl.
07:04:57 GAME Explosion with size (2, 4, 8, 0) in (Emergency Shuttle (108,56,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: lawlolawl/(Duncan Sawyer).
07:04:57 GAME Explosion with size (0, 1, 4, 6) in (Emergency Shuttle (107,50,2)). Possible cause: the fuel tank. Last fingerprints: *null*.
07:05:00 GAME Explosion with size (1, 3, 8, 8) in (Emergency Shuttle (98,56,2)). Possible cause: the microbomb implant. Last fingerprints: *null*.

Post by **dendydoom** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:01 am #694763

Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:40 am here it is!!
both bombs in FULL DETAIL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_Kh-itHso
The audio got corrupted so there is no audio, sorry. If you really want I can see if I can get it out because I thought I heard its audio in the raw recording.

oh my good lord that is so much worse than i could've ever imagined

their version of the story at least made it sound like their throws were accurate, this is horrifyingly stupid decision making LOL

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:31 am #694766

Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:40 am here it is!!
both bombs in FULL DETAIL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_Kh-itHso
The audio got corrupted so there is no audio, sorry. If you really want I can see if I can get it out because I thought I heard its audio in the raw recording.

jfc that was atrocious hahahahahahaa

dirk_mcblade · Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:15 am

This dude dislocated the captain's limbs sitting in the cockpit at the opposite end from the explosion and they're trying to play it off like the shuttle grenade wasn't a mistake.

Post by **Timberpoes** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:19 pm #694781

The arbiter would also like some lemon grenades.