Notes ARE Punishment Peanut

[Chadley]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34501

I understand that you have played this game for a significant time, but I haven't gone digging back a decade or fourteen years for these notes. Just a couple years. I acknowledge still, that a couple of years is quite some time to be looking back, but when I look at such a time frame on any other player, I have yet to see a similar case of one breaking the same rule 6 times.

14 days is a long time, even more so when you're basing it off the last 2 years. Fading notes are not a real concept. Especially with an active player like Crag.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Yeah, looking at someone's words and actions and attacking their character is what admins do, sinfulbliss.

[Jacquerel]

You know why I think they got banned for 14 days over OOC IC? I think it’s because they disconnected during the ticket, and that pissed the admin off. It’s as simple as that.

See, when you disconnect during a ticket, it undermines the admin’s sense of importance and power-

You can disagree with me and the decisions I made, and it can be just that. You don't have to come around swinging conspiracy theories about my temperament, intentions, and the reasons I made those decisions. I don't understand why you have to immediately jump to labelling me as bad-tempered, self-important, etc. You don't know anything about me. You disagree with the things I did, and that is all it has to be.

I can appreciate, that in your mind an injustice happened here, and that's upsetting. That you don't understand exactly why I made the decisions I did. But I don't think its fair to then turn around and attack my character over those things.

I don’t have anything against you, I don’t really even know you. I’m just saying what I believe to be true.

14 days for OOC IC is insane. Pretty much everyone here agrees at least with that much. The next obvious question is “why the fuck did they get 14 days.” Even with two prior IC OOC notes it wouldn’t explain that length.

But what would explain it is the player being hostile and then disconnecting instantly after you try to speak nicely to them. That could explain slapping them extra hard out of anger, and Timber even insinuated that with his “admin goodwill” explanation, so you have headmin support even if that’s what happened, which I think it was.

I think that you only believe this because your breakfast was a little undercooked this morning.

[sinfulbliss]

Yeah, looking at someone's words and actions and attacking their character is what admins do, sinfulbliss.

You would be so much happier on Bagil or Sybil. No one would ahelp any of this nonsense to begin with, and the admins probably wouldn’t give as much of a shit about it even if they did.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Find it preposterous sight has the chutzpah to complain about you attacking his character after the shit he pulled insinuating i'm not a good faith player because of notes from years ago. Sorry, sight, i'll be sure to wait 2 years before you ban someone for an excessive period of time again so i can make an admin complaint where i call it a "pattern of troubling behavior" and note that "you've improved but not enough how can i be sure you're not going to do it again."

What a fucking joke.

[kinnebian]

Yeah, looking at someone's words and actions and attacking their character is what admins do, sinfulbliss.

You would be so much happier on Bagil or Sybil. No one would ahelp any of this nonsense to begin with, and the admins probably wouldn’t give as much of a shit about it even if they did.

swooping in for the conversion

[TheRex9001]

I have to preface this by saying I don't get the length of fourteen or even eight days but still...

Let me stop you there. That’s all that matters. The fact they got shafted for such a minor issue, using 2 year old notes as the justification.

You know why I think they got banned for 14 days over OOC IC? I think it’s because they disconnected during the ticket, and that pissed the admin off. It’s as simple as that.

See, when you disconnect during a ticket, it undermines the admin’s sense of importance and power. Technically speaking it’s allowed, it just takes away your side of the story. But for an issue like this, there’s really no “side of the story” needed, so Crag, already understandably pissed off, disconnected.

Disconnecting mid ticket takes away your side of the story, yeah. In a situation like Crags any story is better than no story, and if you really gotta go ask the admin if they can do this ticket when you connect again or don’t and face the prospect of a longer ban that you may need to appeal. Dcing doesnt make an admin feel less important much like being an admin doesnt make you feel more important.

[conrad]

Admins don't get pissed if you leave halfway through the ticket, if anything you made the job easier.

Don't be absurd.

You actually made their job harder because now they have to logdive more to piece together what happened on their own.

Unless they’re the sort of admin that just assumes the ahelper is right until proven otherwise, in which case sure it makes it easier for the admin if other party disconnects, but they’re also a bad admin if they do that.

Admins will log dive during tickets anyway. If the player disconnects halfway through the ticket it just means whatever I find in the logs is what I'm going off on, and I don't have to worry about or wait for an explanation since they're no longer there.

The only times I don't log dive is when there's at least two parties, they're opposed, and they're both telling exactly the same story. You'd be surprised how many people break rules and come clean during the ahelp, their story matching exactly the story of the person that started the tickets and everyone involved.

The above isn't (or at least shouldn't) be done by candidates since they're learning, and should only be done by someone in the trial stage if they're feeling very comfortable. It was a very experienced trainer that taught me that.

I'll even spoiler alert and tell you that I've actually handled an ahelp from you that was exactly that. Four different parties, all telling exactly the same story. I did check some logs, but not to look for things or have "backing", just to sanity check.

Admining isn't about powertripping or having your e-peepee be bigger cos you have the funny colour name, it's to make the community better by steering it into what is best for everyone. This is an RPG, and that's how they thrive. The fact so many players still flock to /TG/ is testament that it's working.

Obviously there are admins that fall short on that. If you see them doing it, yell at them constructively. If you see me falling short, yell at me, I'm a big boe, I can take it

Thank you for reading my essay. If you got all the way to the end you deserve 1 Conrad token.

[Sightld2]

I’m just saying what I believe to be true-

What would explain it is the player being hostile and then disconnecting instantly after you try to speak nicely to them. That could explain slapping them extra hard out of anger-

I think this is an unfair leap in logic, you've assumed the worst, most malicious explanation for my actions. But I guess its a given that I'd feel that way.

Even with two prior OOC IC notes it wouldn’t explain that length.

This is ultimately where we disagree. It's where some of the other admins disagree too. It's what I've argued over extensively in Bus. Truthfully, there is a wide range of acceptable discretion here, I don't think I overstepped that boundary, but I will say that there was more thought put into the decision-making, and more factors considered than "Two notes, its mega-ban time"

-and Timber even insinuated that with his “admin goodwill” explanation, so you have headmin support even if that’s what happened, which I think it was.

I get it if I can't get you to see it any other way, that's fine, but I really don't think that's what Timber meant here.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I’m just saying what I believe to be true-

What would explain it is the player being hostile and then disconnecting instantly after you try to speak nicely to them. That could explain slapping them extra hard out of anger-

I think this is an unfair leap in logic, you've assumed the worst, most malicious explanation for my actions. But I guess its a given that I'd feel that way.

Even with two prior OOC IC notes it wouldn’t explain that length.

This is ultimately where we disagree. It's where some of the other admins disagree too. It's what I've argued over extensively in Bus. Truthfully, there is a wide range of acceptable discretion here, I don't think I overstepped that boundary, but I will say that there was more thought put into the decision-making, and more factors considered than "Two notes, its mega-ban time"

-and Timber even insinuated that with his “admin goodwill” explanation, so you have headmin support even if that’s what happened, which I think it was.

I get it if I can't get you to see it any other way, that's fine, but I really don't think that's what Timber meant here.

Please shut the fuck up

[ekaterina]

From "thanks for the beating" to "shut the fuck up, you fascist".
I'm glad to see Crag is no longer licking the boot but I fear he's gone too far in the opposite direction.

[ekaterina]

lol Crag changed "Please shut the fuck up you mincing fascist nancy" to simply "Please shut the fuck up" and now my post doesn't make as much sense.
... or perhaps it's because of my post that he realised he was going too far, hmmmm

[Super Aggro Crag]

This fucking steven universe fan has the fucking cojones to come in and complain that people are making judgements about him and seeing him as bad tempered and reading his actions as malicious and saying people don't even know him after banning me for 14 god damn fucking days for OOC in IC because of notes that were made before his fucking gonads dropped. I don't fucking value your opinion in the slightest, ekaterina, but if this guy is going to act like a fucking martyr over people thinking he's a fucking retard for handing out a shitty ban that happened to get upheld because our headmin team is a dribbling shower of pisscunts after fucking putting me on the dunking stool and branding me with the scarlet letter saying HOW CAN I KNOW THIS IS EVEN A GOOD FAITH APPEAL then I am going to express that he's a fucking hypocritical idiot. You don't get the benefit of the doubt that you deny other people, Sightld2.

I edited the post because my friend asked me to, not you, Ekaterina, you stupid yogurt cup. Don't you have some kard karrying klansman to be championing?

[Turbonerd]

Just don't ick ock, ock ick, or fail RP. It's not that hard.

[ekaterina]

I edited the post because my friend asked me to, not you, Ekaterina, you stupid yogurt cup. Don't you have some kard karrying klansman to be championing?

Considering that in this thread you were the supposed "kard karrying klansman" I was "championing", you dumb glass of milk, do you have something you would like to tell us about... a clan, perhaps, you might be a part of?

[Super Aggro Crag]

I edited the post because my friend asked me to, not you, Ekaterina, you stupid yogurt cup. Don't you have some kard karrying klansman to be championing?

Considering that in this thread you were the supposed "kard karrying klansman" I was "championing", you dumb glass of milk, do you have something you would like to tell us?

Retard.

[ekaterina]

I edited the post because my friend asked me to, not you, Ekaterina, you stupid yogurt cup. Don't you have some kard karrying klansman to be championing?

Considering that in this thread you were the supposed "kard karrying klansman" I was "championing", you dumb glass of milk, do you have something you would like to tell us?

Retard.

Indeed you were, clansman. You exposed yourself.

[Sightld2]

I actually liked the mincing bit. An interesting lesson in language. For what it's worth, I appreciated your previous cordiality. It's not my intention to act like a martyr, I was explaining my position and defending my character to one Sinfulbliss. I lose zero sleep, if ultimately, he, yourself, or anyone else in this thread still views my actions as out of line. I feel I did give you sufficient benefit of the doubt, in fact I think the whole admin team has. I don't care to argue this particular point any further, and since me defending myself bothers you, I will be shutting the fuck up now. Take care.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I actually liked the mincing bit. An interesting lesson in language. For what it's worth, I appreciated your previous cordiality. It's not my intention to act like a martyr, I was explaining my position and defending my character to one Sinfulbliss. I lose zero sleep, if ultimately, he, yourself, or anyone else in this thread still views my actions as out of line. I feel I did give you sufficient benefit of the doubt, in fact I think the whole admin team has. I don't care to argue this particular point any further, and since me defending myself bothers you, I will be shutting the fuck up now. Take care.

Later, Sightld2. I hope that in the future neither of us ever has cause to interact with each other whatsoever.

[sinfulbliss]

I’m just saying what I believe to be true-

What would explain it is the player being hostile and then disconnecting instantly after you try to speak nicely to them. That could explain slapping them extra hard out of anger-

I think this is an unfair leap in logic, you've assumed the worst, most malicious explanation for my actions. But I guess its a given that I'd feel that way.

Not at all. I would say it's almost human nature, even. People are guided largely by emotion, intuition, and feeling rather than cold stony-eyed logic. Admins are absolutely no exception to this, despite what some are trying to pedal in this thread. Hell a solid chunk of admins are probably not even done with puberty.

The most malicious explanation would be if you disliked Crag personally and made his punishment harsher because of that.

[Constellado]

Whoah yeah this is definitely out of hand. Being professional is always the way to go in situations like this. Going to the side and making a big storm doesn't resolve things.

Mind you, I'd me pissed too if the same thing happened to me.

[conrad]

I'm digging Crag's road to improving his reputation as a person in the community we enjoy having around.

I don't fucking understand it but I dig it.

[Constellado]

I feel like making an image that represents how I feel about timber right now. ("I AM GOD") Maybe later...

I'm digging Crag's road to improving his reputation as a person in the community we enjoy having around.

I don't fucking understand it but I dig it.

I agree here. I have already said how I like playing with Crag earlier in this thread, so I will not repeat myself. Just know they are one of the best players! I know a lot of players that have fucked up with OOC in IC (maybe more than once) but it never ruins my round in the slightest. The attitude crag has in the forums I never see outside the forums, as well.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Broly's doublepost above is a masterclass in doublethinking.

I have a very big brain

[TheLoLSwat]

Im not going to lie, its really lame that crag got converted and just went "nah fuck off", you can be upset but use that in your roleplay! You dont have to be super in love with the revolution, but you can begrudgingly sneak your headrev some medical supplies or surgical tools / rooms to remove implants. I thought manuel was the place where you explored the roleplay opportunities that the lrp crowd wouldnt let fly?

[MooCow12]

So at the end of the day, players are allowed to play like actual npcs/not contribute as part of a team antag but making their intentions of doing so known so that their teammates dont put missplaced trust on them is a nono?




Good thing instead of saying that I just ask the person who converted me "how 2 cult?" and gaslight them into thinking im a brand new player

[TheLoLSwat]

So at the end of the day, players are allowed to play like actual npcs/not contribute as part of a team antag but making their intentions of doing so known so that their teammates dont put missplaced trust on them is a nono?




Good thing instead of saying that I just ask the person who converted me "how 2 cult?" and gaslight them into thinking im a brand new player

you can atleast put the bare minimum and ask if they want anything your job has to offer, while expressing that you would rather do other things.

[dirk_mcblade]

I have to preface this by saying I don't get the length of fourteen or even eight days but still...

Let me stop you there. That’s all that matters. The fact they got shafted for such a minor issue, using 2 year old notes as the justification.

While the shafting is something that matters it's not all that matters.
If crag didn't proceed to rage about getting bwoinked and actually just did the thing he was supposed to do upon getting reminded of the rules he would have gotten a zero day ban and likely at most a note about not immediately participating in team antag.
Even now I'm seeing a lot of people getting pissed about the length, which I understand, but I don't see any acknowledgment of "Yeah maybe this fellow instigated this whole chain of events and while the end result is disproportionate maybe they should think about how they ended up there".
You all gassed him up to the point that he was disputing that the note itself should have been removed, which is nuts because that's basically without precedent. In the end, despite all the claims that it's not important even though it got mentioned every other post and in the headmin's response, he was being a shitty teammate to kick the whole thing off and then kept making bad decisions. Even then his appeal was "sorta" successful.
Compare that outcome to him just saying "Oh right, I did bad, I'll get back on track m8" to the first ahelp.

[dirk_mcblade]

So at the end of the day, players are allowed to play like actual npcs/not contribute as part of a team antag but making their intentions of doing so known so that their teammates dont put missplaced trust on them is a nono?




Good thing instead of saying that I just ask the person who converted me "how 2 cult?" and gaslight them into thinking im a brand new player

You know even performing at 10% of effort is still about infinity times better than saying "fuck this" and pretending nothing happened.

[MooCow12]

you can atleast put the bare minimum and ask if they want anything your job has to offer, while expressing that you would rather do other things.

i just shift my goals

if i wanted to build a forcefield generator that round i build it at a summon location and let anyone else deal with converting/sacing

if i wanted to build a big maint base i just build and build and build and trap it, and put a spirit realm there, and trap it some more, and then try to get the crew to attack it and die homealone style while the real cult base is probably on lavaland still


or another cultist draws a teleport rune in my base and then i mald because it means i cant deathtrap it with bombs anymore.

[oranges]

this is a classic crag moment

get banned
appeal professional
eventually get angrier and angrier
get agressive, start slinging insults
get more negative nots
rinse repeat

[BrolyButterfingers]

this is a classic crag moment

get banned
appeal professional
eventually get angrier and angrier
get agressive, start slinging insults
get more negative nots
rinse repeat

Aren't you literally a sex pest? Go away.

[BONERMASTER]

So at the end of the day, players are allowed to play like actual npcs/not contribute as part of a team antag but making their intentions of doing so known so that their teammates dont put missplaced trust on them is a nono?




Good thing instead of saying that I just ask the person who converted me "how 2 cult?" and gaslight them into thinking im a brand new player

Two tips on how to evade team antag conversions:

1. Don't tell them you're not complying
- If there is no cause given, there is no cause to investigate.

2. Have plausible deniablity
If you are found to be suspicious, just say "I am being stealthy " or "I am an introvert" - you will never be bothered by the admins again.

No need to thank me.


With hot regards
-BONERMASTER

[RedBaronFlyer]

So at the end of the day, players are allowed to play like actual npcs/not contribute as part of a team antag but making their intentions of doing so known so that their teammates dont put missplaced trust on them is a nono?




Good thing instead of saying that I just ask the person who converted me "how 2 cult?" and gaslight them into thinking im a brand new player

Two tips on how to evade team antag conversions:

1. Don't tell them you're not complying
- If there is no cause given, there is no cause to investigate.

2. Have plausible deniablity
If you are found to be suspicious, just say "I am being stealthy " or "I am an introvert" - you will never be bothered by the admins again.

No need to thank me.


With hot regards
-BONERMASTER

Pretty much this. There's a part of the manuel pop that just keeps doing their job after conversion, especially if it's revs. It's harder to keep your head down forever when the cult is doing stuff, though. Once they got halos it's either hide in maints/a locker or hide in your department

Like, the fuck is a janitor supposed to be doing in the meantime while the revolution is starting to take shape?

[oranges]

So at the end of the day, players are allowed to play like actual npcs/not contribute as part of a team antag but making their intentions of doing so known so that their teammates dont put missplaced trust on them is a nono?




Good thing instead of saying that I just ask the person who converted me "how 2 cult?" and gaslight them into thinking im a brand new player

Two tips on how to evade team antag conversions:

1. Don't tell them you're not complying
- If there is no cause given, there is no cause to investigate.

2. Have plausible deniablity
If you are found to be suspicious, just say "I am being stealthy " or "I am an introvert" - you will never be bothered by the admins again.

No need to thank me.


With hot regards
-BONERMASTER

Bonermaster LLC advice quality has decreased, you should instead pretend to be new to rev as they have no way of checking easily how many rev rounds you have been in.

[MooCow12]

I actually do normally do an introverted playstyle when I`m a team antag and try to help from the sidelines.

But usually when I do that I`m tryharding because I`m doing my best to put all of our eggs in different baskets.

[Pepper]

It takes 18 months for points on your license to expire. I could drive recklessly and the consequences would be less permanent than getting a note on a space game.

[conrad]

We gun get fahve pages ye boeah

[Fren256]

Is this the perfect time to say "Crag is correct"?

[Turbonerd]

this is a classic crag moment

get banned
appeal professional
eventually get angrier and angrier
get agressive, start slinging insults
get more negative nots
rinse repeat

Aren't you literally a sex pest? Go away.

He has contributed more to /tg/ in a single day than you will ever do to any community in your entire life.

[BrolyButterfingers]

this is a classic crag moment

get banned
appeal professional
eventually get angrier and angrier
get agressive, start slinging insults
get more negative nots
rinse repeat

Aren't you literally a sex pest? Go away.

He has contributed more to /tg/ in a single day than you will ever do to any community in your entire life.

Ahh yeah, let's keep creeps around because they can write code for an ancient game for morons lmao

[BrolyButterfingers]

Also I spent like five years running a community way bigger and more complex than this one, you probably said that to the one person where that isn't true

Also I run another community for rent money lmao

[RedBaronFlyer]

this is a classic crag moment

get banned
appeal professional
eventually get angrier and angrier
get agressive, start slinging insults
get more negative nots
rinse repeat

Aren't you literally a sex pest? Go away.

He has contributed more to /tg/ in a single day than you will ever do to any community in your entire life.

It’s kind of telling that you didn’t even try defending or justifying it and went straight for the “he’s a big contributor!” defense.

[BrolyButterfingers]

"Sorry, he's a load-bearing asshole"

[MooCow12]

Thread derailed over orange hate it so over folks pack it up.

I do wonder what would happen to someone like orange if he was in craig`s place and said that in game though.

[Jacquerel]

I do wonder what would happen to someone like orange if he was in craig`s place and said that in game though.

Oranges wouldnt notice if he was banned from playing tgstation

[Capsandi]

We gun get fahve pages ye boeah

Just don't ick ock, ock ick, or fail RP. It's not that hard.

"Sorry, he's a load-bearing asshole"

Non comprehensive list of empty posts. Be ashamed of urselvz.

There is an adage which applies to the spaceman meta game in which when quality control bans are wielded by the administration, it is in all independent actor's immediate interest to achieve zero net notes per given playtime span. Therefore, when QC bans are a possibility, all note appeals are justified. This is disregarding theoretical note expiration which has never shown to be absolute in experimental conditions.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Oranges and super aggro crag are the tgstation mascots

[dendydoom]

capsandi was right about endless sky being better than starsector so now i feel compelled to agree with him on everything.

[MrStonedOne]

"Sorry, he's a load-bearing asshole"

The amount of ad-hoc communities that only survive off the backs of load-bearing assholes is higher than you want to admit.

[BrolyButterfingers]

"Sorry, he's a load-bearing asshole"

The amount of ad-hoc communities that only survive off the backs of load-bearing assholes is higher than you want to admit.

I ran one of the biggest alliances in one of the worst MMOs for five years, believe me I fucking know.

[conrad]

Non comprehensive list of empty posts. Be ashamed of urselvz.

Bababooey!