He can't keep getting away with it! Peanut

[Fren256]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Fourteen job bans jfc

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34529

This is an unfair ban btw, at least with his side of the story.

[oranges]

common sense doesnt exist on the internet

I'm quite okay with people who lack common sense getting banned so the system works if you ask me.

ekaterina can complain all they want but it's never going to reform the system because it actually works well enough.

[Fatal]

Funny that job bans have been in the game for many many years and I don't recall anyone ever asking for it to be in the rules that you can't evade one

As timber said, if we have to put in the rules page that it's against the rules to evade a job ban, despite everyone playing (apparently) being an adult capable of intelligent thought, then we lose all hope and may as well fucking shut down the servers now, it's that or expand the rules page by a factor of 10 to include every little detail that's against the rules, rather than people actually having a semblance of what's right and wrong and not being a bad faith actor

This is yet another ban which is a result of the straw that broke the camels back, continually breaking the rules ends only one way

[conrad]

As timber said, if we have to put in the rules page that it's against the rules to evade a job ban, despite everyone playing (apparently) being an adult capable of intelligent thought, then we lose all hope and may as well fucking shut down the servers now, it's that or expand the rules page by a factor of 10 to include every little detail that's against the rules, rather than people actually having a semblance of what's right and wrong and not being a bad faith actor

What a calamitous and dramatic train of thought dear god.

Adding a tiny little 1 sentence rule about something isn't gonna kill tg, turn it's carcass into glue and use it to close the server doors shut.

I would prefer it'd be part of rule seven. Heck, could even be "e.g.: evading a job ban". I was convinced this idea was fruitless.

But this apocalyptic view of rule bloat is a bit much lol

[dendydoom]

timber is right as usual: a permanent ban is rarely the end if you're capable of change. there are players who have made the game so shit over such a long period of time that the only acceptable outcome at that point is to grab them by the collar and throw them out the door. 6 months later they'll come back and we'll say "yeah no problem buddy, come on in!"

for a video game community tgstation is the most fair and thoughtfully judicious i've ever seen. there is no "ah fuck this guy, ban 'em", everything is steeped in pages of discussion about what's a reasonable, measured response to something. it makes the rare slip-ups all the more shocking when they inevitably do happen.

i wish devin all the best but he is a long way from realizing how his behaviour is making the game worse for everyone. i hope he comes to terms with it and changes it so he can eventually come back. we've done all we can to make the message loud and clear.

[iain0]

This ban's unjustified solely on the grounds that this needs to be documented clearly in the main rules somewhere.

And this is how we end up with coffee that says "Caution: Contents may be hot" on the side. Though I always thought the 'may' ought to be a 'should'.

If you can't infer that job ban = banned from playing job then honestly you're gonna struggle with the rest of the rule base which contains a lot of more vague ideas. And I'm opposed to turning the rules into a strict 400 page document that describes every possible nuance to players. Our rules work on "the spirit of the rules", and the spirit of a role ban isn't that you play the role via other means. Kinda obviously really? If you aren't just pedantically rules lawyering in a peanut post and genuinely don't see this as obvious then this just may not be the game for you, there's a LOT more complex stuff you'll have to figure through than this one.


Also do you really think that if this was written down in the rules they wouldn't have done it? I figure probably wouldn't make any difference, so what's really the point?

[Unsane]

I played with Devin on a different server back then, and he was troubled a lot, yes, but I enjoyed interacting and roleplaying with him. I liked him as a person and loved goofing around, but Jesus Christ, I have no idea how on earth he keeps getting into trouble. He eventually got banned from that server, to the point where the staff of that server laughed at him when he got permabanned with no chance of coming back. I felt sad about it; yes, he's an idiot, but I love him.

A year later, we met again on Manuel. I was happy to see him, and I assumed he was as well. I hoped that he wouldn't be the same reckless and fumbling person he used to be, but man... seeing him getting banned every Tuesday just makes me depressed. Seeing someone I really like being around not make much progress in terms of being more careful brings me down. Devin, I love you, but holy crap, how the hell have you not changed at all, man?


the other server was Fulp
I was a mentor on that server for a year

[BrolyButterfingers]

This ban's unjustified solely on the grounds that this needs to be documented clearly in the main rules somewhere.

And this is how we end up with coffee that says "Caution: Contents may be hot"

You ended up with that notice on the coffee because the woman who sued McDonalds got third degree burns on her legs and vagina because the coffee was superheated far beyond what a fucking human could possibly ingest lmao

[sinfulbliss]

timber is right as usual: a permanent ban is rarely the end if you're capable of change.

It is the end unless you’re deranged enough that you’d subject yourself to 50 hours of Fulp/Bee/Yog, while also expertly following their significantly more strict MRP rules without getting banned or noted. As a new player. Good luck!

6 months later they'll come back and we'll say "yeah no problem buddy, come on in!"

Incredibly rare. Maybe for a 1-2 year old perma. More likely you’ll get “come back with a vouch a year from your original ban date.”

[dendydoom]

50 hours is like a week of casual play to most people trapped deep within the mind prison this game constructs around your psyche.

a permanent ban is supposed to be permanent - the fact that we see it as a "come back and try again when you're less of a shithead" and not a "never come back here again" is pretty telling toward our attitudes around player rehabilitation. i can't speak for every admin but i personally don't like to write people off as being totally unable to change. they just have to show that after breaking that trust they're willing to put the time and effort in to show that they're capable of changing their ways.

[BrolyButterfingers]

50 hours is like a week of casual play to most people trapped deep within the mind prison this game constructs around your psyche.

This statement is fucking deranged and should in no way be a meaningful yardstick by which you measure anybody lmao

[dendydoom]

50 hours is like a week of casual play to most people trapped deep within the mind prison this game constructs around your psyche.

This statement is fucking deranged and should in no way be a meaningful yardstick by which you measure anybody lmao

yes.

[Pepper]

50 hours is like a week of casual play to most people trapped deep within the mind prison this game constructs around your psyche.

you are a case study as to why notes should never expire based on playtime. this is a completely unreasonable standard spun up by some deep recess of your terminally online brain

[dendydoom]

50 hours is like a week of casual play to most people trapped deep within the mind prison this game constructs around your psyche.

you are a case study as to why notes should never expire based on playtime. this is a completely unreasonable standard spun up by some deep recess of your terminally online brain

it is not my standard, it's the standard utilized by people who harbour a deeply unhealthy relationship with the game to the point that they find themselves permabanned because they physically cannot stop themselves from playing the game, let alone from playing in a way that gets them hit with notes and bans on a regular basis so that we ask them to go somewhere else for a while. to the average person, it is a lot of time that's meant to encapsulate a journey to relearning how to play the game properly in a shared environment. to the average permabanned gamer that lives and breathes this game, it is not some insurmountable task. i say that because i've seen it. i'm actually quite shocked that this throwaway line has had to be explained. one minute my posts are too long, then the next minute they're too short because people trip over trying to comprehend them without a paragraph of explanation. good lord. my scrubby is publicly available, just like anyone else's. go check out my hours if you feel so inclined.

though this is an interesting idea for a case study on an imaginary version of me. let me know when it's done, i'll read it.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

This ban's unjustified solely on the grounds that this needs to be documented clearly in the main rules somewhere.

And this is how we end up with coffee that says "Caution: Contents may be hot"

You ended up with that notice on the coffee because the woman who sued McDonalds got third degree burns on her legs and vagina because the coffee was superheated far beyond what a fucking human could possibly ingest lmao

To be fair, I don't think "Warning: Contents may be hot" would help there.

The coffee is OBVIOUSLY hot, it just shouldn't have been made THAT hot. Slapping a sticker on the cup isn't going to change that.

[MooCow12]

Was he actually acting as a captain or was he just using captain equipment to do his job better as security.


At what point do the lines between roles blurr too much, an hop or captain that is banned from security would be banned for confiscating peoples stuff via baton and putting it in brig correct? So that falls under security`s job right?

But he was using heightened access and equipment that would otherwise go unused correct?

So the captain modsuit, its more armor than sec ones sure but I guess the main issue here is the significance of the sprite that makes everyone around him think that hes in charge, same with the id

So would it be better to hide the id and not wear the suit and by extension not emit authority that you are not allowed to have?


Or is it simply using the items themselves why he is considered evading and its not simply the authority that they emit.

[Constellado]

Was he actually acting as a captain or was he just using captain equipment to do his job better as security.


At what point do the lines between roles blurr too much, an hop or captain that is banned from security would be banned for confiscating peoples stuff via baton and putting it in brig correct? So that falls under security`s job right?

But he was using heightened access and equipment that would otherwise go unused correct?

So the captain modsuit, its more armor than sec ones sure but I guess the main issue here is the significance of the sprite that makes everyone around him think that hes in charge, same with the id

So would it be better to hide the id and not wear the suit and by extension not emit authority that you are not allowed to have?


Or is it simply using the items themselves why he is considered evading and its not simply the authority that they emit.

He got the bwoink as soon as he used the console to message CC. Also, a big chunk of the admin reasoning was the fact that everybody saw him as the captain. People were calling him captain.

In this case, it is clear cut.
There may be a scenario where it is not, but that in my opinion is best looked at when it comes!

[MooCow12]

So hide the captain gear and dont use announcements even if its to meme like that of a clown.

[Archie700]

So hide the captain gear and dont use announcements even if its to meme like that of a clown.

Too late for that now.

[PengisBungholius]

So hide the captain gear and dont use announcements even if its to meme like that of a clown.

the issue was everything considered, I think, not that one or two things were done. Taking the captain's gear isn't evasion, announcing things isn't evasion, taking the spare cause it's being offered up isn't evasion, etc. It's doing all that at once. Doing just some things with justification for doing them wouldn't really be evasion, like announcing things using the captain's/command staff's ID, but looking like and acting like the captain (a role that is just the implied authority and access) isn't a very good idea when you're rolebanned from command.

[Lacran]

So hide the captain gear and dont use announcements even if its to meme like that of a clown.

It's not that complex, if you dress like a captain, take captain access and act like a captain, you're trying to be the captain.

Sec shouldn't be using Captain gear on MRP unless approved by the captain or it's an emergency.

If you are sec trying to solely secure captain gear and not take acting then take the gear and put it in the HoS office. You can keep the I.D and disk in your survival box if you are intending to play as security.

In his own words he took acting captain.

[ekaterina]

If you are sec trying to solely secure captain gear and not take acting then take the gear and put it in the HoS office

I once met a HoS who got his panties in a bunch over a sec officer taking the soulless warden's gear. I thought him to be one of the dumbest uptight pieces of shit HoS I'd ever met. Now you're telling me he might just have been a recent Manuel convert who still hadn't caught up with LRP culture?

[dendydoom]

ekat, i know you're riding a real high wave at the moment of owning the manuel players that only exist in your imagination, but literally no one in the universe gives a shit if some secoff gets the krav gloves and armoury access. a secoff walking around with the captain's spare proudly on full display on their uniform is annoying because they become a shithead AA loot pinata the moment they get tableshoved, not because it breaks the indisputable laws of the roleplay high council that you've invented.

[RedBaronFlyer]

"wtf guys why i get banned i only had job ban from chemistery man but i wasn't chemtree man I just got chembistry access from the HOOP???????? ADRMIN ABUUUSEEE!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" - Equivalent example

You think you'd give whatever job you were banned from a wide berth considering that the alternative is a server ban.

[ekaterina]

"wtf guys why i get banned i only had job ban from chemistery man but i wasn't chemtree man I just got chembistry access from the HOOP???????? ADRMIN ABUUUSEEE!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" - Equivalent example

You think you'd give whatever job you were banned from a wide berth considering that the alternative is a server ban.

It's a chemist job ban, not a chemistry mechanic ban. If you want it to also be the latter, you should make it clear to the player.

[Lacran]

"wtf guys why i get banned i only had job ban from chemistery man but i wasn't chemtree man I just got chembistry access from the HOOP???????? ADRMIN ABUUUSEEE!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" - Equivalent example

You think you'd give whatever job you were banned from a wide berth considering that the alternative is a server ban.

It's a chemist job ban, not a chemistry mechanic ban. If you want it to also be the latter, you should make it clear to the player.

Admin: "Hey you blew up a bunch of people with grenades as the chemist gonna give you a role ban"

Player: "ok sure"

joins as an assistant, gets a chemist I.D from the HoP proceed to dress as a chemist, with chemist access and starts doing chemistry

Admin: "We banned you from doing that"

Player: "Well you should've made that clear"

You are so dense it might actually be pathological.

[TheLoLSwat]

"wtf guys why i get banned i only had job ban from chemistery man but i wasn't chemtree man I just got chembistry access from the HOOP???????? ADRMIN ABUUUSEEE!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" - Equivalent example

You think you'd give whatever job you were banned from a wide berth considering that the alternative is a server ban.

It's a chemist job ban, not a chemistry mechanic ban. If you want it to also be the latter, you should make it clear to the player.

If a player needs to be told to not play as the job they are banned from, ss13 might just be too complex for them… it’s ok I heard of another up and coming game about deception in space, it even has aliens disguised as crew like ss13!

[ekaterina]

It's a chemist job ban, not a chemistry mechanic ban.

joins as an assistant, gets a chemist I.D from the HoP proceed to dress as a chemist, with chemist access and starts doing chemistry

Cool strawman. Because going into chemistry to get thermite to bust into the malf AI's sat, for example, is totally the same as going up to the HoP and asking for a job change at round start.

You are so dense it might actually be pathological.

What a mind-numbingly stupid thing for you to say. Recognising that spessmen do not have common sense is not the same as being dense, you brainlet.

[Lacran]

It's a chemist job ban, not a chemistry mechanic ban.

joins as an assistant, gets a chemist I.D from the HoP proceed to dress as a chemist, with chemist access and starts doing chemistry

Cool strawman. Because going into chemistry to get thermite to bust into the malf AI's sat, for example, is totally the same as going up to the HoP and asking for a job change at round start.

You are so dense it might actually be pathological.

What a mind-numbingly stupid thing for you to say. Recognising that spessmen do not have common sense is not the same as being dense, you brainlet.

Okay but going and becoming captain is what the player did that got banned he didn't just use a singular tool, he adopted the role, the role he was banned from.

It takes very little deduction to understand that being banned from playing a role means they don't want you to play it regardless of how you choose to obtain that position.

When you act like basic reasoning skills is an unreasonable expectation it makes you look incredibly dense. If that's something you don't like you should do something about it.

[NoxVS]

Okay maaaaybe it wasn't that unfair, but ever since he got back it looks like he's gotten some leeway instead of just getting perma'd again. With that in mind, shouldn't he get one more chance with a tempban instead of jumping straight to kicking him from the game forever?

The rolebans were the one more chance.

[dendydoom]

not speaking for all admins here, but in my experience head bans are used because it's recognized that they're the more stressful role. more is asked of you and it's understandable that when placed in that stressful position you will be more prone to using your authority and responsibility to make poor decisions. if this becomes an issue, a head ban is one of good faith to the player. it says: "hey, we're gonna be asking you to cool off and take lower stress jobs for a while until you can understand where you went wrong and then bounce back." if you cannot take the lowly peon jobs like chemist without getting so goofy you ruin the round, then it's unlikely to be a job ban: you will just get timed out from the server for a little while.

[oranges]

you know you don't actually have to argue with ekaterina right?

Them posting falsehoods in the forum does not make it a reality.