I regret voting for Timberpoes

[ekaterina]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I just read one of the dumbest rulings ever made on tgstation. viewtopic.php?p=695750#p695750.

What the fuck does "can't use it to fight back" even mean? Expecting a player to just sit there and let himself be beaten is absolutely immersion-breaking. It's beyond stupid.

Even if that wording doesn't actually mean that and I just misinterpreted it, this is still an awful ruling. Something as trivial and basic as calling a ligger that resulting in something as major as a player being "valid" is absurd!

[Fren256]

What do you think will happen if you start acting like a gorilla with rabies over someone calling you a slur in real life? Do you think that person will just stop defending herself because she said a slur? It's beyond nonsensical, it's so dumb that it breaks suspension of disbelief.

well good thing theres a headmin ruling now clearly stating that you cannot use it to fight back or escalation bait

"Good" thing? My point was that ruling is completely retarded to the point of breaking my immersion, how is that anywhere near good? Are you feeling ok?

I prefer people that say ligger to be deleted as a sign of disencouragement than have MY immersion broken by an IRL slur that, if used without the lizard modulation, is rule 3 break.

I'm amazed that, with all your rule lawyering nonsense, you don't actually see this.

The word doesn't even have an IC justification for it to exist. With other especiesist slurs you can at least relate them to their characteristics, like forkie (forked tongues) or scaleback (scaly skin). Hell, even the IRL slur it's based of, nigger, literally refers to the colour black. Meanwhile, the L word is just there for the sake of being offensive or as a workaround to be racist towards black people, so it's very clearly an OOC term with zero purpose IC.

[sinfulbliss]

Meanwhile, the L word is just there for the sake of being offensive or as a workaround to be racist towards black people.

Nah not really
It’s used because so many people freak out over it and insults are intended to create an anger response

Y’all are literally keeping the word in use with every indignant comment over its usage

Want ligger to go away? *Laugh when you get called a ligger

[Fren256]

Nah not really
It’s used because so many people freak out over it and insults are intended to create an anger response

Glad we agree it's an OOC term.

Want ligger to go away? *Laugh when you get called a ligger

Nah I'm just gonna throw you into the SM

[sinfulbliss]

Nah not really
It’s used because so many people freak out over it and insults are intended to create an anger response

Glad we agree it's an OOC term.

Saying something to incite an anger response doesn’t make it an OOC term, that applies to like every insult ever.

Want ligger to go away? *Laugh when you get called a ligger

Nah I'm just gonna throw you into the SM

I don’t think so

[sinfulbliss]

Just for the record I’m keeping a mental list of all the shook takes in this thread and storing liggerbombs in the back of my mind for each and every one of you

[TheRex9001]

This allows antagonists to reign supreme, able to kill anyone with impunity and go "HE/SHE SAID LIGGER" to try and deflect, crew would be too afraid to interfere with you killing crew because if they really did say ligger, they would be valid for escalation and round removal.

Depends on the admin, but using an ooc ruling for this can be counted as metagaming so abusing this can get you noted/banned

[sinfulbliss]

This allows antagonists to reign supreme, able to kill anyone with impunity and go "HE/SHE SAID LIGGER" to try and deflect, crew would be too afraid to interfere with you killing crew because if they really did say ligger, they would be valid for escalation and round removal.

Depends on the admin, but using an ooc ruling for this can be counted as metagaming so abusing this can get you noted/banned

No shot lol
that would be psychotic
rule 4 baby I will gaslight and lie and cheat and be a massive bitch and you will close the tickets generated in clear conscience

[TheRex9001]

This allows antagonists to reign supreme, able to kill anyone with impunity and go "HE/SHE SAID LIGGER" to try and deflect, crew would be too afraid to interfere with you killing crew because if they really did say ligger, they would be valid for escalation and round removal.

Depends on the admin, but using an ooc ruling for this can be counted as metagaming so abusing this can get you noted/banned

No shot lol
that would be psychotic
rule 4 baby I will gaslight and lie and cheat and be a massive bitch and you will close the tickets generated in clear conscience

Yeah ofc, its just that if you abuse it an admin can slap you.

[sinfulbliss]

This allows antagonists to reign supreme, able to kill anyone with impunity and go "HE/SHE SAID LIGGER" to try and deflect, crew would be too afraid to interfere with you killing crew because if they really did say ligger, they would be valid for escalation and round removal.

Depends on the admin, but using an ooc ruling for this can be counted as metagaming so abusing this can get you noted/banned

No shot lol
that would be psychotic
rule 4 baby I will gaslight and lie and cheat and be a massive bitch and you will close the tickets generated in clear conscience

Yeah ofc, its just that if you abuse it an admin can slap you.

If you manage to convince sec that the guy you killed was validly murdered because he said ligger, that is your right and your privilege as an antagonist.

I don’t think there’s anything antags aren’t allowed to say to get away with something aside from rule 8 stuff, rule 11 stuff, and OCK ICK

[sinfulbliss]

That reminds me of this one time when I was somewhat new, this dude Raymond Dugmore (i think that was his name) made a chaplain sect called “the church of lesbianism.” I had killed some guy as a tot and was caught red handed with the body, spaghetti out of pockets I tried to obfuscate the situation and distract them by talking about the church of lesbianism and started saying some insane things to just make them forget I had a fuckin body with me. Got bwoinked cause it was sorta rule 8-ey but the admin understood the goal so i didn’t get noted. Reminded me of this oddly specific yet relevant example.

[TheRex9001]

Using an ooc ruling to your advantage in this maner is metagaming. Its fine to do once or twice but if you keep using it multiple antag shifts in a row I’d tell you to knock it off. (Also if the crew acts on it without question thats a seperate issue)

[TheRex9001]

That reminds me of this one time when I was somewhat new, this dude Raymond Dugmore (i think that was his name) made a chaplain sect called “the church of lesbianism.” I had killed some guy as a tot and was caught red handed with the body, spaghetti out of pockets I tried to obfuscate the situation and distract them by talking about the church of lesbianism and started saying some insane things to just make them forget I had a fuckin body with me. Got bwoinked cause it was sorta rule 8-ey but the admin understood the goal so i didn’t get noted. Reminded me of this oddly specific yet relevant example.

lol

[sinfulbliss]

Using an ooc ruling to your advantage in this maner is metagaming. Its fine to do once or twice but if you keep using it multiple antag shifts in a row I’d tell you to knock it off. (Also if the crew acts on it without question thats a seperate issue)

How is that metagaming exactly? I thought metagaming was using info your character can't know in-game to give yourself an advantage.
It's not like they have to believe you, I think it's definitely on them if they do. It's really no different than any other excuse except it's kinda funnier.

[dirk_mcblade]

I have literally never been caught for murder.

[ekaterina]

How is it immersion breaking for someone who is of low income to want to off you over calling them a slur.

It isn't, it's along the line of similar things that happen in SS13 but not in real life. What IS immersion breaking is for you to not be able to fight back.

(...) have MY immersion broken by an IRL slur that, if used without the lizard modulation, is rule 3 break

"Whoa, if this word was a different word, the person would be saying something else!"
Gee, mister, who would've thunk it? What point are you even trying to make? That it's ock ick, same as Fren256?

The word doesn't even have an IC justification for it to exist. With other especiesist slurs you can at least relate them to their characteristics, like forkie (forked tongues) or scaleback (scaly skin). Hell, even the IRL slur it's based of, nigger, literally refers to the colour black. Meanwhile, the L word is just there for the sake of being offensive or as a workaround to be racist towards black people, so it's very clearly an OOC term with zero purpose IC.

And if Timberpoes agrees with this, the proper course of action would be to add it to either the soft or hard filters. I wouldn't necessarily agree but I wouldn't care enough to regret voting for him like I do now. Ruling that "ligger" is ock ick is a legitimate ruling, even if I disagree, unlike the dumbass ruling this thread was made about.

[dirk_mcblade]

How is it immersion breaking for someone who is of low income to want to off you over calling them a slur.

It isn't, it's along the line of similar things that happen in SS13 but not in real life. What IS immersion breaking is for you to not be able to fight back.

I dunno man if you dropped a hard r on someone and you then fought back yeah maybe according to the letter of the law you might have been allowed to but good luck with a jury.

[ekaterina]

How is it immersion breaking for someone who is of low income to want to off you over calling them a slur.

It isn't, it's along the line of similar things that happen in SS13 but not in real life. What IS immersion breaking is for you to not be able to fight back.

I dunno man if you dropped a hard r on someone and you then fought back yeah maybe according to the letter of the law you might have been allowed to but good luck with a jury.

The country in which I am living right now does not have jury trials, and, even if I did live in the USA, I could request a trial by bench, rendering a jury's optics irrelevant. Besides, even if the law didn't allow you to fight back (which would be beyond retarded), any sane person would do it anyway. "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

This analogy doesn't work either way. We're not talking about security coming after you for fighting back in violation of Space Law, we're, as dendydoom pointed out, talking about a metaphysical force (the admins) stopping you from fighting back, or deleting you from existence after the fact.

[Fren256]

Nah not really
It’s used because so many people freak out over it and insults are intended to create an anger response

Glad we agree it's an OOC term.

Saying something to incite an anger response doesn’t make it an OOC term, that applies to like every insult ever.

It is an OOC (Out Of Character, if you forgot what it meant) term because you're trying to get a reaction out of the players, not their characters. Just like how you keep threatening to say the word to people against its usage:

Just for the record I’m keeping a mental list of all the shook takes in this thread and storing liggerbombs in the back of my mind for each and every one of you

[conrad]

ong there's no way you people can be this dented. It has to be trolling.

[SapphoQueer]

Just Don't Say The (Un)Funny Word... Problem Solved...

Just use something more creative and people won't give a shit.

[sinfulbliss]

Nah not really
It’s used because so many people freak out over it and insults are intended to create an anger response

Glad we agree it's an OOC term.

Saying something to incite an anger response doesn’t make it an OOC term, that applies to like every insult ever.

It is an OOC (Out Of Character, if you forgot what it meant) term because you're trying to get a reaction out of the players, not their characters.

You could say that about every single insult my friend, not just the L word.
The more pussified people act about it the more it makes me want to say it. Maybe they'll get over it via exposure therapy.

[Fren256]

You could say that about every single insult my friend, not just the L word.

Maybe, but it'd depend on the context. In any case, it's not the same for the L word because:

guys a slur with 1 letter changed is such a funny alternative name and not a shitty attempt to use an actual slur because lizard

The more pussified people act about it the more it makes me want to say it. Maybe they'll get over it via exposure therapy.

No you're just a dumbfuck contrarian that gets worked up over people telling you that what you're doing is wrong.

[sinfulbliss]

No you're just a dumbfuck contrarian that gets worked up over people telling you that what you're doing is wrong.

ok ligger

[sinfulbliss]

i think the only people who actually get offended at hearing this word are lizard players who are super insecure about the fact they’re lizard players and hate that there’s a really good slur just for them

so they act like omg actually this is so offensive and racist, and morally prostrate etc. but at the end of the day no one who has the right to has actually taken personal IRL offense at the L word, just a bunch of lizard players as white as the day is long blowing smoke over nothing

same typa mfs that went into the “naked lizard sauna” during the 2021 toolbox and emote *wag when they get harmed

[dendydoom]

Just for the record I’m keeping a mental list of all the shook takes in this thread and storing liggerbombs in the back of my mind for each and every one of you

don't worry we are all well aware of the extent you will go to for some attention.

[Super Aggro Crag]

wow you guys are still posting huh

[Jacquerel]

i think timberpoes seems pretty cool

[sinfulbliss]

Just for the record I’m keeping a mental list of all the shook takes in this thread and storing liggerbombs in the back of my mind for each and every one of you

don't worry we are all well aware of the extent you will go to for some attention.

what a ferocious little bite dendy
it was a joke pal did someone shit in your cereal

[Super Aggro Crag]

get some new material geezer

[dendydoom]

Just for the record I’m keeping a mental list of all the shook takes in this thread and storing liggerbombs in the back of my mind for each and every one of you

don't worry we are all well aware of the extent you will go to for some attention.

what a ferocious little bite dendy
it was a joke pal did someone shit in your cereal

so was mine. i do hope you're not getting sensitive over a harmless little joke...

[sinfulbliss]

Look at me with a straight face, dead in the eyes, and tell me this is a coincidence.

don't worry we are all well aware of the extent you will go to for some attention.

The word doesn't even have an IC justification for it to exist. With other especiesist slurs you can at least relate them to their characteristics, like forkie (forked tongues) or scaleback (scaly skin). Hell, even the IRL slur it's based of, nigger, literally refers to the colour black. Meanwhile, the L word is just there for the sake of being offensive or as a workaround to be racist towards black people, so it's very clearly an OOC term with zero purpose IC.

[dendydoom]

Look at me with a straight face, dead in the eyes, and tell me this is a coincidence.

you mean the throwaway character i play when i'm stoned and don't want attention on my static, that i've used for literally 2 rounds?



this is concerning behaviour even for you, sinful. one little friendly jab and you're taking like columbo to the scrubby logs to search for evidence for your little conspiracies. chill out!

[Super Aggro Crag]

this gorlak spends all his time sperging about admins but he spends more time cataloguing people's playtime and character names than any jannie

[kinnebian]

► Show Spoiler

Look at me with a straight face, dead in the eyes, and tell me this is a coincidence.

don't worry we are all well aware of the extent you will go to for some attention.

The word doesn't even have an IC justification for it to exist. With other especiesist slurs you can at least relate them to their characteristics, like forkie (forked tongues) or scaleback (scaly skin). Hell, even the IRL slur it's based of, nigger, literally refers to the colour black. Meanwhile, the L word is just there for the sake of being offensive or as a workaround to be racist towards black people, so it's very clearly an OOC term with zero purpose IC.

sinful im lolling right now

[Unsane]

How about we come up with a new term instead of using an offensive one from out-of-character sources? For example, if I remember correctly, the Lizards are from Tizira, so maybe instead of the racist term 'Ti'zren' for them which translates to "Lizard Scum", we could use something like 'Tiziran' or 'Tizirans' to refer to them without being offensive.

Also, I think it would be interesting to have non-humans call humans 'Terran Apes' as an IC slur, just to add some depth to the world and interactions.

[TheRex9001]

Mon'keigh, and for non-humans there are plenty of options from lightbulb to sock eater to fungus amongus

[Super Aggro Crag]

How about we come up with a new term instead of using an offensive one from out-of-character sources? For example, if I remember correctly, the Lizards are from Tizira, so maybe instead of the racist term 'Ti'zren' for them which translates to "Lizard Scum", we could use something like 'Tiziran' or 'Tizirans' to refer to them without being offensive.

Also, I think it would be interesting to have non-humans call humans 'Terran Apes' as an IC slur, just to add some depth to the world and interactions.

being offensive in character does not matter to these people as they exclusively play on the no-roleplaying euro server.

[sinfulbliss]

Mon'keigh, and for non-humans there are plenty of options from lightbulb to sock eater to fungus amongus

You'd have to hold me down and jab me with a cattleprod to get me to call someone "fungus amongus" as a SLUR.
A slur is supposed to be OFFENSIVE. That's the ENTIRE point of a slur. Tell me, how much offense is taken by "my little fungy amongy xDDD"? NONE. It's the equivalent to calling someone a "dumbo stupidhead baka!!"

Ligger, on the other hand? How many pages is this thread? Exactly. It's the perfect IC slur.

One sounds RACIST, the other sounds like a fruity way to flirt with someone.

this gorlak spends all his time sperging about admins but he spends more time cataloguing people's playtime and character names than any jannie

Someone has to take up the mantle after the Crag Castration event of 2023

[Super Aggro Crag]

i just called people funny names you silly head you literally spend hours running in circles logdiving to try and prove some sort of conspiracy against your ability to call people the gamer word when no one is stopping you from doing it they just call you a fucking idiot for being obsessed with it

holy shit dude if you ever manage to to get a crumb of pussy you're going to become insufferable i can see it now, 7 page threads where you scream that manuelite server culture is infringing on your god given right as a Totally Alpha Sex Haver to ERP with other pimply faced teenage boys in a poorly coded atmospherics simulator

[Unsane]

How about we come up with a new term instead of using an offensive one from out-of-character sources? For example, if I remember correctly, the Lizards are from Tizira, so maybe instead of the racist term 'Ti'zren' for them which translates to "Lizard Scum", we could use something like 'Tiziran' or 'Tizirans' to refer to them without being offensive.

Also, I think it would be interesting to have non-humans call humans 'Terran Apes' as an IC slur, just to add some depth to the world and interactions.

being offensive in character does not matter to these people as they exclusively play on the no-roleplaying euro server.

actually a good point lol

[sinfulbliss]

i just called people funny names you silly head you literally spend hours running in circles logdiving to try and prove some sort of conspiracy against your ability to call people the gamer word when no one is stopping you from doing it they just call you a fucking idiot for being obsessed with it

holy shit dude if you ever manage to to get a crumb of pussy you're going to become insufferable i can see it now, 7 page threads where you scream that manuelite server culture is infringing on your god given right as a Totally Alpha Sex Haver to ERP with other pimply faced teenage boys in a poorly coded atmospherics simulator

I knew the real Crag was still in there somewhere
Welcome back

[conrad]

No you're just a dumbfuck contrarian that gets worked up over people telling you that what you're doing is wrong.

ok ligger

This is the most case in point that has ever case in pointed in the history of cases and points.

[The Wrench]

i think the only people who actually get offended at hearing this word are lizard players who are super insecure about the fact they’re lizard players and hate that there’s a really good slur just for them

so they act like omg actually this is so offensive and racist, and morally prostrate etc. but at the end of the day no one who has the right to has actually taken personal IRL offense at the L word, just a bunch of lizard players as white as the day is long blowing smoke over nothing

same typa mfs that went into the “naked lizard sauna” during the 2021 toolbox and emote *wag when they get harmed

Nice try moving the goalposts, the whole reason ligger exists is to get an OOC reaction out of people because of its association with the real world N word. Please stop being obtuse before I lose the little bit of respect I have for you.

[TheRex9001]

Mon'keigh, and for non-humans there are plenty of options from lightbulb to sock eater to fungus amongus

You'd have to hold me down and jab me with a cattleprod to get me to call someone "fungus amongus" as a SLUR.
A slur is supposed to be OFFENSIVE. That's the ENTIRE point of a slur. Tell me, how much offense is taken by "my little fungy amongy xDDD"? NONE. It's the equivalent to calling someone a "dumbo stupidhead baka!!"

Ligger, on the other hand? How many pages is this thread? Exactly. It's the perfect IC slur.

One sounds RACIST, the other sounds like a fruity way to flirt with someone.

Why does "Ligger" sound racist? Because its the n-word with one letter changed. Also the other ones arent meant to be slurs and more just funny names.

[Fren256]

I'm grasping at straws someone please support my deranged racist takes

Ad hominem

[conrad]

The only reason Ligger gets this reaction is due to the IRL slur association. Using said IRL slur nets you either a rule 3 or rule 8 ban. There's no equivalent for plasmemes or felinids, and the last person to try to coin one for moths is permabanned.

Calling plasmemes bungus or someone who's a friend of a lizard gecko fucker doesn't elicit the same reaction precisely cos we don't have fungus or lizard people IRL.

If the only leg your insult in the game stands is an IRL slur that breaks two different rules, you need to be specially stupid to think that's "perfectly IC".

[conrad]

Oh yeah, and scrubby diving to win arguments in the players club is fucking cringe. I don't have lizard rounds. I play a human that's on occasion very much against non-humans. Watch sinful pull an excuse out of his ass for me disliking ligger like a balloon animal.

[Striders13]

i think the only people who actually get offended at hearing this word are lizard players who are super insecure about the fact they’re lizard players and hate that there’s a really good slur just for them

so they act like omg actually this is so offensive and racist, and morally prostrate etc. but at the end of the day no one who has the right to has actually taken personal IRL offense at the L word, just a bunch of lizard players as white as the day is long blowing smoke over nothing

same typa mfs that went into the “naked lizard sauna” during the 2021 toolbox and emote *wag when they get harmed

high quality unmedicated sinful post

[MooCow12]

i think the only people who actually get offended at hearing this word are lizard players who are super insecure about the fact they’re lizard players and hate that there’s a really good slur just for them

so they act like omg actually this is so offensive and racist, and morally prostrate etc. but at the end of the day no one who has the right to has actually taken personal IRL offense at the L word, just a bunch of lizard players as white as the day is long blowing smoke over nothing

This wasnt started by lizards, to many players its probably just an arbitrary "mime spoke" or "dude has contraband" sort of thing where youre allowed to lynch, as someone who valid hunts I think you`d be able to comprehend that given your old playstyle of literally searching people`s inventories to see if they were wearing void cloak and following space law whenever it meant you are allowed to jump someone.

[sinfulbliss]

Nice try moving the goalposts, the whole reason ligger exists is to get an OOC reaction out of people because of its association with the real world N word. Please stop being obtuse before I lose the little bit of respect I have for you.

Every insult exists to get a reaction out of people.
Ligger is an IC slur but not a slur IRL.
The reason it's allowed is because it's not a slur IRL.
If it's used in any connotation that refers to the slur IRL (e.g. "go back to ligfrica"), you get banned.
So why all the bitching and moaning over it?

[conrad]

5 pages lesgooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO