What do you guys think about the laser buffs, now we've had them for a while?

[Indie-ana Jones]

I understand the laser buff was made as a meme, but I think it's had a pretty big impact on gameplay for last couple months. With the big ammo capacity change, spamming lasers has become an extremely viable tactic against most threats, and the buff has pushed a further crew advantage over our antagonists who were already struggling to keep up. Overall, if anything, I'd like to see the ammo capacity on lasers reverted, as I think the spam it enables empowers brain-dead behavior as opposed to actually needing to aim, but that's just my thoughts on it. What do you guys think? Are you happy with the current state of their balance? If you would change anything personally, what would it be?

[sinfulbliss]

You can break open a locker with a single lasergun now, maybe a single lasergun plus a couple shots, previously it was like 3 whole recharges.

Balance wise I don’t think it was exactly a great idea just because you can completely forget about being accurate in a fight with how many shots you get, with 20 capacity if you hit 4 of them it’s lights out so you can be 20% accurate and still win handily. Meanwhile the makarov has 8(9?) shots, and now does no more damage than the hellfire.

Seccie with armor and a lasergun outdamages a makarov pretty handily. Seccie with armor and a lasergun ties crit with even an armor piercing makarov, while also having over twice the capacity.

Tactical rest removal + stronger laserguns + greater capacity = easier gun combat for nonantags, meaning antags suffer a bit in comparison.

[saprasam]

antags r kill

[BrolyButterfingers]

It's good, now make antags stronger. Make EVERYTHING stronger.

I'm tired of the slow erosion of power in the setting. Everything used to be much more wacky and overpowered, but balance geeks have slowly made everything kind of boring. Make shit weird and busted again.

[RedBaronFlyer]

Feels fine honestly. Blobs were getting screwed over hard the first few weeks of the buff but the nerf to the damage the lasers do to blobs makes them fine.

[TheRex9001]

Its alright, I think it makes antags a bit too weak but I feel like this paves the way to make everything stronger which is funny. I like it when humans are fragile, makes stuff more fun and wacky.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Laser rifles have absolutely firmly established themself as the only serious combat option the crew pick now. Shotguns are old news.

[Cheshify]

I use the Laser Musket, it's what the maintainers intended.

[Turbonerd]

Lasers are the future!

[TheLoLSwat]

antags trolled? its ok because cool lasers :D

laserguns being too strong > laserguns being too weak

[MooCow12]

It made already struggling antags (space dragon was already struggling and (nightmare which has a 1.5 burn multipliar) even weaker.

It couldnt have been timed worse, space dragon`s carp had just been made to be slower and deal less object damage but with a health increase so they can act as bullet sponges....except they get ONE SHOT by lasers.

So carps are pretty much gutted from being able to atleast serve as a distraction (breaking stuff and making sec go to other parts of the station) to not being able to stray far from the dragon/portal and getting killed in a single hit regardless of what they do

Now that dragons need to place portals in actual rooms on the station it has to worry even more about getting swarmed from multiple directions and it only takes 1 person with a laser gun to kill his portal quickly so its just him getting his portal killed because hes just getting swarmed despite being a semi-swarm antag with his carp (which again, die in one hit and take several minutes to spawn)




Lasers had a near 50% buff to the amount of damage they can deal before needing to be reloaded, a change that orange justified because "lasers cannot be reloaded mid combat unlike ballistics" which cannot be further from the truth (you can craft self recharging lasers or use a stabilized yellow extract from xenobio), lasers are not only more available to the crew, they also have much harder to get rid of wounds (burn) which provides a DAMAGE MULTIPLIAR to the effected limbs AND can disable them if left untreated, not only that but they already have unique advantages like being able to go through glass.

Also ballistics being able to be reloaded is their own downside because they have to sacrifice precious inventory space (something maintainers have been adamant about making an important resource) but apparently in this case inventory space is not accounted for.

If you wanna go on about how antag ballistics can also fit in bag and lasers cant then thats an antag vs crew issue and not a ballistics vs laser issue, and if you try to make ballistics a trademark of the syndicate and then treat ballistics as something that lasers need to directly compete with then you end up with the station having lethals that are as deadly as what dynamic just spent all of its threat on. (and keep in mind tots will never have as many ballistic guns as the crew will have lasers thanks to the armory + cargo + the hos and captain and hop each getting their own)


Oh and im pretty sure the laser buffs are a pretty big nerf to antags that dont necessarily go out of their way to get lasers or have their own ballistic weapons to fight back (rip rust heretic who`s entire identity is to regenerate health which requires getting hit meanwhile blade heretic can just block every hit and continue to not care about how much damage a projectile would have done)

[saprasam]

truer words have never been spoken. “DAMAGE MULTIPLIAR” nah nvm

space dragon is nowhere near as weak as youd think. it can heal off its portal at a rapid speed and is able to do a massive aoe stun that guarantees 1 hardcrit if somebody is hit due to the stun length

[Kendrickorium]

it's silly

revert it

carps one shot?
blobs that are discovered in infancy are killed instantly now
dont get me started on xenos

[wesoda25]

Didn't notice a difference. More damage, less ammo would be a more interesting dynamic to me. Or hit scans...

[MooCow12]

truer words have never been spoken. “DAMAGE MULTIPLIAR” nah nvm

space dragon is nowhere near as weak as youd think. it can heal off its portal at a rapid speed and is able to do a massive aoe stun that guarantees 1 hardcrit if somebody is hit due to the stun length

you dont hit the dragon you hit the portal

[oranges]

too many people complain about wanting to swap laser gun batteries like ammo on ballistics for it to have been a big problem.

[Capsandi]

it's silly

revert it

carps one shot?
blobs that are discovered in infancy are killed instantly now
dont get me started on xenos

xenos stopped being a threat whatsoever when someone ided'd their hardstun away. Now they're just spiders with a disarm and an incredibly convoluted and long respawn method.

solution to the other two is to buff laser resist on carp and to buff blob hp but lasers are not to blame for xenos

[Kendrickorium]

it's silly

revert it

carps one shot?
blobs that are discovered in infancy are killed instantly now
dont get me started on xenos

xenos stopped being a threat whatsoever when someone ided'd their hardstun away. Now they're just spiders with a disarm and an incredibly convoluted and long respawn method.

solution to the other two is to buff laser resist on carp and to buff blob hp but lasers are not to blame for xenos

i dunno man watching 3 xenos in crit screaming WHAT THE FUCK from one barrage of laser blasts was pretty fucking funny

[sinfulbliss]

too many people complain about wanting to swap laser gun batteries like ammo on ballistics for it to have been a big problem.

t. a mind that has been heavily plagued and addled by the mindless idedings of intern john

[saprasam]

I use the Laser Musket, it's what the maintainers intended.

the fact that i can't move while cranking this thing turns it from having niche potential as an improv weapon to complete & utter dogshit

[BrolyButterfingers]

Can we just

Make everything powerful

Please

[Indie-ana Jones]

xenos stopped being a threat whatsoever when someone ided'd their hardstun away. Now they're just spiders with a disarm and an incredibly convoluted and long respawn method.

solution to the other two is to buff laser resist on carp and to buff blob hp but lasers are not to blame for xenos

Yeah, I made that change. Mind you, xenomorphs still have hard-stuns, hunter has a buffed actually usable version of the pounce which hardstuns and while sentinel doesn't have a hardstun anymore, their neurotoxin just got buffed up to 65 damage, so one shot will slow greatly and two will incapacitate most targets.

Also, it certainly wasn't an 'ided'. I'd ideally like for our antags to all be capable of posing quite a threat, but we can do better than instastuns tied to a simple right click. That being said, the change wasn't made initially to consider the laser buff either, and it kind of throws a wrench into the mix. I'm open to buffs if need be.

[rellyreri]

space dragon is nowhere near as weak as youd think. it can heal off its portal at a rapid speed

space dragon healing is fucking abysmal, even from eating corpses

and is able to do a massive aoe stun that guarantees 1 hardcrit if somebody is hit due to the stun length

which has such a long telegraph that you'd need to already be stunned to get hit by it

[saprasam]

space dragon is nowhere near as weak as youd think. it can heal off its portal at a rapid speed

space dragon healing is fucking abysmal, even from eating corpses

and is able to do a massive aoe stun that guarantees 1 hardcrit if somebody is hit due to the stun length

which has such a long telegraph that you'd need to already be stunned to get hit by it

are we playing the same game

[Constellado]

The power of dragon is very dependant on how robust it is. I saw a dragon that was so robust that it took down a whole sec team.

[Capsandi]

Also, it certainly wasn't an 'ided'. I'd ideally like for our antags to all be capable of posing quite a threat, but we can do better than instastuns tied to a simple right click.

Well maybe we can do better than instastuns, but considering xenos are no longer a threat I think it would be rational to restore their bullshit stuns. Actually nah dont give it back to xenos. Give some non conversion, stealth antag a bs stun.

[kinnebian]

Can we just

Make everything powerful

Please

broly why do you have such a need for power creep

[Capsandi]

power revert, considering everything was 8-10x more effective 5 years ago.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Can we just

Make everything powerful

Please

broly why do you have such a need for power creep

I want everything to be interesting and scary and threatening, I want the paranoia of the setting to be amped up

I want to be scared of an assistant holding a paper plane because it'll knock my fuckin leg off if it's origami

I want to hear the word "ling" and avoid maints for the rest of the shift

I want EVERYTHING to be powerful

A lot of my favourite moments in SS13 are the intersection of powerful objects/items/constructions/antagonists colliding into one another. Xenos fighting an army of golems with metallic hydrogen axes while a blob grows in maintenance and a ling is taking advantage of the chaos to drag away the HOS is the kind of chaos I want to see happen much more often, but if golems are shit there's not a lot of incentive to make or play them.

I'm enjoying a few recent changes, like webs melting to heat and creating an active incentive to plasmaflood spiders, but I want to see a lot more reward for making difficult or time-consuming stuff, for both traitors and crew, but in ways that aren't incredibly direct or even purpose-designed like "mech good".

I want to see more extreme scenarios and more extreme solutions

[warbluke]

Re-add tazers as a 10 TC item this will fix the balance problems.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Based + add cutting through wall plateing with them like in dune.
Also nerf the baton and buff grabs.

[Jonathan Gupta]

a man once taught me, "Lethals? I have armor, watch this" and shot me with dual disablers truly a lesson of the lifetime

[Jonathan Gupta]

now it seems the lesson was removed because the laser buff, what a fucking loseeer!

[Kendrickorium]

Can we just

Make everything powerful

Please

broly why do you have such a need for power creep

I want everything to be interesting and scary and threatening, I want the paranoia of the setting to be amped up

I want to be scared of an assistant holding a paper plane because it'll knock my fuckin leg off if it's origami

I want to hear the word "ling" and avoid maints for the rest of the shift

I want EVERYTHING to be powerful

A lot of my favourite moments in SS13 are the intersection of powerful objects/items/constructions/antagonists colliding into one another. Xenos fighting an army of golems with metallic hydrogen axes while a blob grows in maintenance and a ling is taking advantage of the chaos to drag away the HOS is the kind of chaos I want to see happen much more often, but if golems are shit there's not a lot of incentive to make or play them.

I'm enjoying a few recent changes, like webs melting to heat and creating an active incentive to plasmaflood spiders, but I want to see a lot more reward for making difficult or time-consuming stuff, for both traitors and crew, but in ways that aren't incredibly direct or even purpose-designed like "mech good".

I want to see more extreme scenarios and more extreme solutions

golems? we still have golems?

[dendydoom]

Can we just

Make everything powerful

Please

broly why do you have such a need for power creep

I want everything to be interesting and scary and threatening, I want the paranoia of the setting to be amped up

I want to be scared of an assistant holding a paper plane because it'll knock my fuckin leg off if it's origami

I want to hear the word "ling" and avoid maints for the rest of the shift

I want EVERYTHING to be powerful

A lot of my favourite moments in SS13 are the intersection of powerful objects/items/constructions/antagonists colliding into one another. Xenos fighting an army of golems with metallic hydrogen axes while a blob grows in maintenance and a ling is taking advantage of the chaos to drag away the HOS is the kind of chaos I want to see happen much more often, but if golems are shit there's not a lot of incentive to make or play them.

I'm enjoying a few recent changes, like webs melting to heat and creating an active incentive to plasmaflood spiders, but I want to see a lot more reward for making difficult or time-consuming stuff, for both traitors and crew, but in ways that aren't incredibly direct or even purpose-designed like "mech good".

I want to see more extreme scenarios and more extreme solutions

this is still possible in my experience, but it would take stepping outside of the public world of these communities.

a few years ago i ran a private server for another community that didn't even know what ss13 was. we had about 25~ people at the most in a round, and none of them had any experience of the meta or expectations that you'd find in public facing ss13 communities where you play round after round, milling through antags and learning their tells and mechanics so you can better defeat them.

the rounds were much closer to a tabletop style of playing: we had 2 rounds per evening, everyone was much quicker and more natural to turn to violence, but each death was a lot more meaningful and created a lot of RP, because it wasn't just "antag detected we must kill them" it was a true threat to the sanctity of the station that they roleplayed out dramatically, lacking any and all knowledge of how to mechanically deal with the threat efficiently. we had a changeling one time, and the crew actually took the time to scrutinize each other and try to deduce who it was through talking and roleplay, like we were actually stuck in "The Thing". one of them roleplayed a mental breakdown from the stress of not knowing and turned on us.

it was a really good time. but it's just something i don't think you'll find in a public game because it takes too much trust between each participant (especially those that play 9 rounds a day every day of the week so they've memorized every possible mechanical outcome of a given situation) that you will play in good faith with the power that you're given to create clever and enjoyable scenarios with the game mechanics, and not abuse it to win the game with any means necessary.

[sinfulbliss]

Can we just

Make everything powerful

Please

broly why do you have such a need for power creep

I want everything to be interesting and scary and threatening, I want the paranoia of the setting to be amped up

I want to be scared of an assistant holding a paper plane because it'll knock my fuckin leg off if it's origami

I want to hear the word "ling" and avoid maints for the rest of the shift

I want EVERYTHING to be powerful

A lot of my favourite moments in SS13 are the intersection of powerful objects/items/constructions/antagonists colliding into one another. Xenos fighting an army of golems with metallic hydrogen axes while a blob grows in maintenance and a ling is taking advantage of the chaos to drag away the HOS is the kind of chaos I want to see happen much more often, but if golems are shit there's not a lot of incentive to make or play them.

I'm enjoying a few recent changes, like webs melting to heat and creating an active incentive to plasmaflood spiders, but I want to see a lot more reward for making difficult or time-consuming stuff, for both traitors and crew, but in ways that aren't incredibly direct or even purpose-designed like "mech good".

I want to see more extreme scenarios and more extreme solutions

first post from broly i have agreed with

the sissification of antags needs to end. we need to enter the renaissance era and go full circle

make antags actually frightening. give then adrenals make deswords hardstun. buff buff buff

[Fikou]

i like the idea of batons being stamina sticks more as time goes on