HEADMIN ELECTION 18 PEANUT:

[kinnebian]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=38&p=698498#p698498
looks like the new election is starting
are you running?
im running
who else is running?
are you excited for anyone in particular
have you already decided who you want to vote for?

[TheLoLSwat]

Yeah idk where all that was coming from, Maneul is not some bastion of RP its just like sybil with slightly more attentive admins

[Lacran]

Again, let’s be real here. Manuel wants nothing to do with the rest of the community, it’s the INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower server. They shun LRPers with their metagangs when they try to join Manuel while also trying to legislate their style of fun onto the rest of the community. The Manuel elitists have no concept that people can have fun ways that aren’t exactly how they want to have fun. Let them do what they want, but don’t force LRP to become more insular and “metacliquey” just as LRP doesn’t force Manuel to lighten up.

Sorry, have you ever played manuel, or did you just take the opinion of passing sybillites in 2020?

Yes, I actually have tried to play manuel and the meta gangs were so unbearably awful. It turned me off of the concept.

I am not one to hate things because they are different so know that I actually genuinely try to give it a chance because I like Manuel as a concept, but I’ve found Sybil has just as high RP as Manuel without nearly as much fart huffing elitism

But youve only played 24 minutes total across both of your accounts on scrubby, unless im reading something wrong

I played one shift on Manuel and that’s all I needed to see. I may end up, revisiting it in the future but seeing the outright hostility here over silly nonsense In regards to Manuel doesn’t really paint a good picture.

I know it might sound odd and counter to your M.O but generally 24 minutes of experience isn't going to give you an opinion worth sharing.

I spent like an hour on Sybil, I definitely didn't see decent roleplay but I'm not going to pretend I'm in a position to tell Sybil players what Sybil is actually like.

[RedBaronFlyer]

Imagine if any MRP person spent 24 minutes playing Sybil and went "ugh they just tide, toolbox each other, plasmaflood, and shout ligger every shift" They'd be laughed out of the room.

For instance, I spent just over four hours playing sybil during peak hours before going "yeah I get why some people like this but it just isn't my cup of tea" and went back to manuel. I tried playing some rounds of Terry was well but I had horrible connection issues so I gave up.

[dendydoom]

sometimes i wonder if we're all playing on the same server or if manuel just randomly reconnects you to one of the lrp servers as a joke

there is no unified standard, it's different mfs that bring different things to the table every round and it's one of the main reasons why i like it there. some rounds have more rp, some rounds have less, it's impossible to keep it to a level standard because it means we have to micromanage everyone and that's not a fun way to play the game. i personally want players to feel like they can do what they want but i would like the standards very slightly higher for choosing when to kill someone with powertools for minorly inconveniencing you. i like it this way because it's how i used to play the game back in the stone age.

[The Wrench]

People do shout that, all the time. And the quickest way to get someone to not like your community is to shun outsiders. But yeah, I probably just joined on a bad day or something. It’s an OK time. I prefer LRP, but I was able to do my obsession gaming and it was OK. Not getting dumpstered for not being a already established part of the community was fun. It just felt like Sybil

[TheLoLSwat]

THE SECOND (Actual Second) (2.0) TIER LIST IS DONE!




Notes

• We're really starting to get into the thick of it now

• I did not believe it at first. I swatted at the thoughts of chadley slowly but surely stacking buffs. But the numbers dont lie and they need to be acknowledged at some point

• The Adminvote is going to be hotly contested this time around.

• On the other hand, the playervote is much smoother sailing (in theory). This may be part of the reason the Armodias run is picking up so much steam, as people could be getting tired of all the status quo candidates

• Ordered within tiers

• ! Next list will be soon-ish-maybe in a week or so, but I might do smaller updates !

[kinnebian]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

[Cheshify]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

I keep poking the events team but I don't think anyone is going to do them. I'll just jab even harder.

[Sightld2]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

I keep poking the events team but I don't think anyone is going to do them. I'll just jab even harder.

Lets do them in game in character like someone said in chatter (was that you?)

[Sightld2]

ill take A-

Same but why they make me dark ourple

[Cheshify]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

I keep poking the events team but I don't think anyone is going to do them. I'll just jab even harder.

Lets do them in game in character like someone said in chatter (was that you?)

IMO debates should actually be fun and helpful. Making them IC would just take too much effort for what it's worth. (nobody listening to candidates)

[Sightld2]

But I want to shove-stun you while you try and deliver a serious talking point...

[Cheshify]

But I want to shove-stun you while you try and deliver a serious talking point...

right click delete

[GPeckman]

I honestly have to agree that Manuel feels less about more roleplay and more about metacliques, and I have one specific round to illustrate my point.

So, while playing on Sybil I had recently discovered the android chaplain sect, and I wanted to convert an absolute fuckton of people into androids, but I wasn't having much luck on Sybil. So I had an idea; Why don't I try Manuel? Surely, if I roleplay well on the roleplay server I'll be able to convert tons of people, right? Well... no, not right. I think only about 3 people were interested, and two of them were the roboticists.

Now, you might just say 'oh, people don't want to became androids because it would change their perfectly crafted OC.' That might be a reasonable point, except for one thing. That very same round, there happened to be a wizard. The wizard had a dagger of envy. You know, the dagger that lets people turn into skeletons. And the wizard died and the dagger fell into the hands of the crew. And tons of people eagerly rushed to become skeletons. The only reason that I can think of that can explain this discrepancy is metacliques, as I had very little if any playtime on Manuel before that round.

[Jacquerel]

Now, you might just say 'oh, people don't want to became androids because it would change their perfectly crafted OC.' That might be a reasonable point, except for one thing. That very same round, there happened to be a wizard. The wizard had a dagger of envy. You know, the dagger that lets people turn into skeletons. And the wizard died and the dagger fell into the hands of the crew. And tons of people eagerly rushed to become skeletons. The only reason that I can think of that can explain this discrepancy is metacliques, as I had very little if any playtime on Manuel before that round.

I think this is a really stupid conclusion to come to

why do people want to turn into rare skeletons rather than something they can become on virtually any round? idk they must be metagaming

[GPeckman]

Now, you might just say 'oh, people don't want to became androids because it would change their perfectly crafted OC.' That might be a reasonable point, except for one thing. That very same round, there happened to be a wizard. The wizard had a dagger of envy. You know, the dagger that lets people turn into skeletons. And the wizard died and the dagger fell into the hands of the crew. And tons of people eagerly rushed to become skeletons. The only reason that I can think of that can explain this discrepancy is metacliques, as I had very little if any playtime on Manuel before that round.

I think this is a really stupid conclusion to come to

why do people want to turn into rare skeletons rather than something they can become on virtually any round? idk they must be metagaming

Aight, lets put this "virtually any round" thing to the test. I happen to have the logs files for 8728 rounds downloaded, for Sybil, Terry, and Manuel, from the very start of this year to roughly the end of June. Out of those 8728 rounds, do you know how many rounds had at least one android? 616. Not even a tenth of the total rounds. And some rounds probably only involve the chaplain themself becoming an android, so if we check how many rounds have at least 2 androids, we get... 271. Less than half the previous number. This is far cry from "virtually every round." Now, want to hear the kicker? You can become an ashen skeleton virtually every round. Legions often leave ashen skeleton bodies on death, and that's just one brain transplant away from becoming one yourself. To top things off, do you want to know how many rounds had one of those skeletons with a ckey? 341 rounds. So it isn't even that much rarer for people to become ashen skeletons than androids.

[CoffeeDragon16]

i keep seeing headmins who have only played for one or two years but have like 3,000 hours
that just makes me trust them less... go outside

[Jacquerel]

Now, you might just say 'oh, people don't want to became androids because it would change their perfectly crafted OC.' That might be a reasonable point, except for one thing. That very same round, there happened to be a wizard. The wizard had a dagger of envy. You know, the dagger that lets people turn into skeletons. And the wizard died and the dagger fell into the hands of the crew. And tons of people eagerly rushed to become skeletons. The only reason that I can think of that can explain this discrepancy is metacliques, as I had very little if any playtime on Manuel before that round.

I think this is a really stupid conclusion to come to

why do people want to turn into rare skeletons rather than something they can become on virtually any round? idk they must be metagaming

Aight, lets put this "virtually any round" thing to the test. I happen to have the logs files for 8728 rounds downloaded, for Sybil, Terry, and Manuel, from the very start of this year to roughly the end of June. Out of those 8728 rounds, do you know how many rounds had at least one android? 616. Not even a tenth of the total rounds. And some rounds probably only involve the chaplain themself becoming an android, so if we check how many rounds have at least 2 androids, we get... 271. Less than half the previous number. This is far cry from "virtually every round." Now, want to hear the kicker? You can become an ashen skeleton virtually every round. Legions often leave ashen skeleton bodies on death, and that's just one brain transplant away from becoming one yourself. To top things off, do you want to know how many rounds had one of those skeletons with a ckey? 341 rounds. So it isn't even that much rarer for people to become ashen skeletons than androids.

The fact that they're not actually used doesn't mean the possibility is not commonly available.
You can become a flyperson or fuse yourself with a roach in virtually any round, people don't because they don't want to be a fly person or cockroach.

[TheLoLSwat]

Job content = lame with few exception

Antag content = cool with few exception

[Jacquerel]

Job content = lame with few exception

Antag content = cool with few exception

yeah this

[GPeckman]

The fact that they're not actually used doesn't mean the possibility is not commonly available.
You can become a flyperson or fuse yourself with a roach in virtually any round, people don't because they don't want to be a fly person or cockroach.

Doesn't mean people want to become an android either. But as I've pointed out, people aren't becoming skeletons very often, despite the option being available for more often than the option to become an android. So what other explanation is there?

[blackdav123]

The fact that they're not actually used doesn't mean the possibility is not commonly available.
You can become a flyperson or fuse yourself with a roach in virtually any round, people don't because they don't want to be a fly person or cockroach.

Doesn't mean people want to become an android either. But as I've pointed out, people aren't becoming skeletons very often, despite the option being available for more often than the option to become an android. So what other explanation is there?

people on all tg servers are bad at actually interacting with each other and about 80% of players on any given round will do absolutely nothing except their job

jobbits are a plague and I'll immediately support anyone with a solution to make players do something other than the same shit they've done 200 rounds in a row

if you need any further proof of this go on any server and try doing any roleplay as an antagonist
only difference between the servers is whether you get your head chopped off before or after your monologue

[LEDDDriver]

Man i really hate the HFR. If only i could convince the maintainers that V6 was significantly better,more engaging and fun than whatever this TGUI-starefest machine is (only 1 recipe is working properly).

Thankfully all i have to do is convince them!

[Jacquerel]

The fact that they're not actually used doesn't mean the possibility is not commonly available.
You can become a flyperson or fuse yourself with a roach in virtually any round, people don't because they don't want to be a fly person or cockroach.

Doesn't mean people want to become an android either. But as I've pointed out, people aren't becoming skeletons very often, despite the option being available for more often than the option to become an android. So what other explanation is there?

the one lolswat just gave you, for one
being turned into a skeleton by magic is more fun than going under a lengthy medical process to transfer your brain into a corpse you found on lavaland
there's a huge number of possible explanations though so who knows which it was in this case
deciding that the only possible reason people didnt want to interact with your genius original bit of "performing a chaplain rite" could be because literally every non-roboticist player has decided not to interact with people they dont already know is just the false dillema fallacy

to be honest it's weird that you think "got three other players to join my cult" is a failure

[Jacquerel]

Man i really hate the HFR. If only i could convince the maintainers that V6 was significantly better,more engaging and fun than whatever this TGUI-starefest machine is (only 1 recipe is working properly).

Thankfully all i have to do is convince them!

i think there is probably literally only one maintainer who knows what the HFR even is

[Jonathan Gupta]

\
gupta - theres barely any platform here so i have to go on ingame experience and they beat me up on sybil the other day so 0/10

I'll do it again

[GPeckman]

people on all tg servers are bad at actually interacting with each other and about 80% of players on any given round will do absolutely nothing except their job

jobbits are a plague and I'll immediately support anyone with a solution to make players do something other than the same shit they've done 200 rounds in a row

if you need any further proof of this go on any server and try doing any roleplay as an antagonist
only difference between the servers is whether you get your head chopped off before or after your monologue

So... you agree with me that the quality of roleplay on Manuel isn't actually much higher than it is on Sybil and Terry, if its higher at all? Or is there some form of interactionless roleplay that I'm not aware of?

the one lolswat just gave you, for one
being turned into a skeleton by magic is more fun than going under a lengthy medical process to transfer your brain into a corpse you found on lavaland
there's a huge number of possible explanations though so who knows which it was in this case

The android conversion process is also both magical and not particularly lengthy, so that isn't really a good explanation.

deciding that the only possible reason people didnt want to interact with your genius original bit of "performing a chaplain rite" could be because literally every non-roboticist player has decided not to interact with people they dont already know is just the false dillema fallacy

Its not the only explanation, but if many other people, some with almost 100 hours of palytime there, are saying that Manuel metaclique problem, then there's a good chance it's true.

And I'd like to point out that it wasn't like I was just sitting in the Chapel, waiting for people to come and be converted. I was out in the hallways, trying to preach and offering conversion (both in the physical and religious sense) to people.

to be honest it's weird that you think "got three other players to join my cult" is a failure

If I can get more players to join on Sybil, then what does that say about the quality of roleplay on Manuel vs Sybil?

[Sightld2]

I honestly have to agree that Manuel feels less about more roleplay and more about metacliques, and I have one specific round to illustrate my point.

Do you have the logs? I'd love to take a peak

[GPeckman]

I honestly have to agree that Manuel feels less about more roleplay and more about metacliques, and I have one specific round to illustrate my point.

Do you have the logs? I'd love to take a peak

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/197391

[Jacquerel]

to be honest it's weird that you think "got three other players to join my cult" is a failure

If I can get more players to join on Sybil, then what does that say about the quality of roleplay on Manuel vs Sybil?

If the mark of good roleplay is measured simply by "number of people who say yes when someone walks up to them and says 'do you want to become an android?' (no further attempt to convince them, just the question)" then yeah I guess Sybil is probably a much more thriving hub of RP.
I'm not sure that's the metric I would personally use, or why "refusing to become an android" is a sign of bad roleplay (or being in a metagang) but perhaps I am the fool.

[GPeckman]

If the mark of good roleplay is measured simply by "number of people who say yes when someone walks up to them and says 'do you want to become an android?' (no further attempt to convince them, just the question)" then yeah I guess Sybil is probably a much more thriving hub of RP.
I'm not sure that's the metric I would personally use, or why "refusing to become an android" is a sign of bad roleplay (or being in a metagang) but perhaps I am the fool.

You say that as if there wasn't plenty of "hey, want to be a skeleton" (no further attempt to convince them, just the question) as well.

SAY: AJK737/(ashen skeleton) "jack" (Central Primary Hallway (88,115,2))
SAY: AJK737/(ashen skeleton) "do you want to be a skeleton"
SAY: Cheeseromancer/(Jack Jackson) "sure why not"

SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "hit me with this"
SAY: General Heavy/(Kyle Hall) "ok?"
SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "dewit"
ATTACK: General Heavy/(Kyle Hall) attacked Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) with envy's knife
SAY: General Heavy/(ashen skeleton) "ASSHOLE"

SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "wanna be immortal?"
SAY: Wolfieguy/(Wolf Smith) "Sure."
SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "hit me"
SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "with this"
ATTACK: Wolfieguy/(Wolf Smith) attacked Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) with envy's knife
SAY: Wolfieguy/(ashen skeleton) "Eh."
SAY: Wolfieguy/(ashen skeleton) "Immortality I guess."

SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "hit me with this"
FerroLocus/(Lex Lenning) attacked Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) with envy's knife
SAY: FerroLocus/(ashen skeleton) "oh sick"
SAY: FerroLocus/(ashen skeleton) "I'm a skeleton"

SAY: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "clown"
Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) "hit me with this"
EMOTE: Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) points at the envy's knife
SAY: TagGamerGame2/(Slippy Joe) "sure"
ATTACK: TagGamerGame2/(Slippy Joe) attacked Cheeseromancer/(ashen skeleton) with envy's knife
SAY: TagGamerGame2/(ashen skeleton) "magic"

Do I need to go on?

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

[Shellton(Mario)]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

I keep poking the events team but I don't think anyone is going to do them. I'll just jab even harder.

How were questions made for the last debate?

[Sightld2]

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

Not disputing that right. But are these gamers the exact same people that refused android?

[GPeckman]

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

Not disputing that right. But are these gamers the exact same people that refused android?

At least one person who was already a skeleton said no, and one person who had already been converted into an android later decided to become a skeleton instead. Its hard to tell beyond that, logs don't really make it clear who is speaking to who.

[blackdav123]

So... you agree with me that the quality of roleplay on Manuel isn't actually much higher than it is on Sybil and Terry, if its higher at all? Or is there some form of interactionless roleplay that I'm not aware of?

Yeah I had been pretty disappointed after a few boring rounds on sybil because people just suck at roleplay so I tried manuel and experienced basically the same thing.

I'm sure both servers have their Brick Mortars and Lisa Greens that can turn any shift interesting but when the few great people arent there it definitely shows.

[LEDDDriver]

Simple solution. Enforce random naming. If Manuel is truly MRP then people will not have trouble - as roleplayers - playing a completely random character and interacting with completely random people.

If you guys are admitting that Manuel is just sybil but with additional rules, then you guys didn't create an MRP server.

[Cheshify]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

I keep poking the events team but I don't think anyone is going to do them. I'll just jab even harder.

How were questions made for the last debate?

I just wrote a bunch and then asked the community for feedback, attempting not to favour any single candidate.

[Cheshify]

Many unhinged suggestions towards MRP in the thread. Funny stuff.

[dendydoom]

people on all tg servers are bad at actually interacting with each other and about 80% of players on any given round will do absolutely nothing except their job

jobbits are a plague and I'll immediately support anyone with a solution to make players do something other than the same shit they've done 200 rounds in a row

if you need any further proof of this go on any server and try doing any roleplay as an antagonist
only difference between the servers is whether you get your head chopped off before or after your monologue

So... you agree with me that the quality of roleplay on Manuel isn't actually much higher than it is on Sybil and Terry, if its higher at all? Or is there some form of interactionless roleplay that I'm not aware of?

yes.

there is no real enforcement of an rp standard. we just have rules to try and create an environment where that rp is possible by requiring IC reasons before taking violent or destructive actions so that it creates a narrative and isn't just meaningless video game logic. if all of the conditions are perfect for thespian roleplaying to take place, but the players don't feel like it, then there is no minimum standard that we're going to twist everyone's arm to raise themselves to.

if people want a round with lots of roleplaying, then the onus is on them to create that roleplay. the manuelmins aren't gonna start gatekeeping the space by curating everyone's rp ability.

[conrad]

I just wanna say I am very proud of you guys for making this thread bigger than the "I regret voting for Timberpoes" one

[Shellton(Mario)]

ill take A-

i hope they do the vc debates again, i dont think ches could host them since theyre running

I keep poking the events team but I don't think anyone is going to do them. I'll just jab even harder.

How were questions made for the last debate?

I just wrote a bunch and then asked the community for feedback, attempting not to favour any single candidate.

Do you think it is possible to set this up in a weeks time if the interest from the candidates is there?

[kinnebian]

I just wanna say I am very proud of you guys for making this thread bigger than the "I regret voting for Timberpoes" one

[Lacran]

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

Not disputing that right. But are these gamers the exact same people that refused android?

At least one person who was already a skeleton said no, and one person who had already been converted into an android later decided to become a skeleton instead. Its hard to tell beyond that, logs don't really make it clear who is speaking to who.

The logic that people preferred to be skeletons over androids, therefore every player that became a skeleton was in a metagang because one (1) person that did also refused your offer is derranged.

There are metagangs on Manuel, none of those people are in one together. You also can't judge a metagang by a single interaction metagangs are about consistent ingroup preferences.

Android sect was refused because it's not novel, alot of chaplains do that. Envy knife skeleton gang is a lot more novel.

[johnfulpwillard]

I could get behind suffocation being removed. It should be the player's choice to breathe if they so choose. Forcing players to react to suffocating, or to avoid suffocation reeks of game design which would make me a game designer. Such thoughs stir my very soul with fright. Now if you excuse me I need to evade orange's attempts to put my child leash back on. Last time he leashed me next to the limp corpse of Travis CL bot which really creeped me out what with its lack of unit testing.

this is real

[CMDR_Gungnir]

If I can get more players to join on Sybil, then what does that say about the quality of roleplay on Manuel vs Sybil?

I'd say it means Manuel's is higher as I imagine most people would not have some random religious nutcase walk up to them, go "Hey wanna join my religion, sacrifice your humanity and irreversibly become a robot?" and answer "OH FUCK YEAH DUDE, SIGN ME UP"

People are playing characters, and while there's nothing wrong with characters that are fast and loose like that, I would certainly hope you're going to find less of them on Manuel, as more people are playing 'realistic' characters that respond to things in a way consistent with their personality, that probably includes a sense of self-preservation and general interest in not completely changing their life at the slightest whim.

[kieth4]

Terry is the best server and has the most handsome and strong men playing it with huge muscles

[wesoda25]

Simple solution. Enforce random naming. If Manuel is truly MRP then people will not have trouble - as roleplayers - playing a completely random character and interacting with completely random people.

If you guys are admitting that Manuel is just sybil but with additional rules, then you guys didn't create an MRP server.

is and always has been a LAME suggestion

[Fikou]

gm

[kinnebian]

[low effort edited stock image in dire need of resizing]
Preventing entropic concept decay is hard so im gonna ignore it

i like this guy

[The Wrench]

Simple solution. Enforce random naming. If Manuel is truly MRP then people will not have trouble - as roleplayers - playing a completely random character and interacting with completely random people.

If you guys are admitting that Manuel is just sybil but with additional rules, then you guys didn't create an MRP server.

Looking into this

[Misdoubtful]

people on all tg servers are bad at actually interacting with each other and about 80% of players on any given round will do absolutely nothing except their job

jobbits are a plague and I'll immediately support anyone with a solution to make players do something other than the same shit they've done 200 rounds in a row

if you need any further proof of this go on any server and try doing any roleplay as an antagonist
only difference between the servers is whether you get your head chopped off before or after your monologue

So... you agree with me that the quality of roleplay on Manuel isn't actually much higher than it is on Sybil and Terry, if its higher at all? Or is there some form of interactionless roleplay that I'm not aware of?

yes.

there is no real enforcement of an rp standard. we just have rules to try and create an environment where that rp is possible by requiring IC reasons before taking violent or destructive actions so that it creates a narrative and isn't just meaningless video game logic. if all of the conditions are perfect for thespian roleplaying to take place, but the players don't feel like it, then there is no minimum standard that we're going to twist everyone's arm to raise themselves to.

if people want a round with lots of roleplaying, then the onus is on them to create that roleplay. the manuelmins aren't gonna start gatekeeping the space by curating everyone's rp ability.

Preach it babe.

Its literally just a different flavor of the same vanilla ice cream, like French vanilla or vanilla bean.

I can go and find threads and posts from years ago that have continually maintained this status quo up until this exact moment if people don't think its real.

Don't buy into people having some grandiose singular vision or expectation for Manuel, because they'd be burning at least half the player base on it by trying to pursue it.

The only people that truly don't 'get' Manuel are the ones that don't 'get' this concept, and they are doomed to be miserable on the server as it will never meet their expectations.