HEADMIN ELECTION 18 PEANUT:

[kinnebian]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=38&p=698498#p698498
looks like the new election is starting
are you running?
im running
who else is running?
are you excited for anyone in particular
have you already decided who you want to vote for?

[Misdoubtful]

people on all tg servers are bad at actually interacting with each other and about 80% of players on any given round will do absolutely nothing except their job

jobbits are a plague and I'll immediately support anyone with a solution to make players do something other than the same shit they've done 200 rounds in a row

if you need any further proof of this go on any server and try doing any roleplay as an antagonist
only difference between the servers is whether you get your head chopped off before or after your monologue

So... you agree with me that the quality of roleplay on Manuel isn't actually much higher than it is on Sybil and Terry, if its higher at all? Or is there some form of interactionless roleplay that I'm not aware of?

yes.

there is no real enforcement of an rp standard. we just have rules to try and create an environment where that rp is possible by requiring IC reasons before taking violent or destructive actions so that it creates a narrative and isn't just meaningless video game logic. if all of the conditions are perfect for thespian roleplaying to take place, but the players don't feel like it, then there is no minimum standard that we're going to twist everyone's arm to raise themselves to.

if people want a round with lots of roleplaying, then the onus is on them to create that roleplay. the manuelmins aren't gonna start gatekeeping the space by curating everyone's rp ability.

Preach it babe.

Its literally just a different flavor of the same vanilla ice cream, like French vanilla or vanilla bean.

I can go and find threads and posts from years ago that have continually maintained this status quo up until this exact moment if people don't think its real.

Don't buy into people having some grandiose singular vision or expectation for Manuel, because they'd be burning at least half the player base on it by trying to pursue it.

The only people that truly don't 'get' Manuel are the ones that don't 'get' this concept, and they are doomed to be miserable on the server as it will never meet their expectations.

[dendydoom]

rp designations are meaningless in the first place because they're just a nebulous contrivance. mrp just means "more roleplay than lrp" and nothing more. manuel has the regular expectation of higher rp because of its ruleset, and i sincerely believe it would be to the grave detriment of everyone who plays there to have admins enforce some sort of standard beyond what is cultivated by the extended rules. no one wants to play in a space where the roleplay council are breathing down your neck and judging your contributions, and such behaviour is poisonous to creativity in the first place because it restricts the freedom of the sandbox down into a strict scope of "acceptable" rote behaviours that eventually become a stale, unbreakable paradigm.

we're here to be creative and enjoy the space sandbox together by contributing our own ideas and gameplay to the shared story. not to kowtow to someone's puritanical ideals of the perfect roleplay space where they're able to ensure they never lose through roleplay fiat rather than mechanics. if someone can't handle rolling with the punches of new unexpected situations but instead bring the entire game to a screeching halt because the rp isn't up to their standard and resulted in something they don't like then not only are they playing the wrong game but they're also not as good at rp as they think they are.

[Boris]

goddamnit why can't I vote for dendydoom

[kinnebian]

goddamnit why can't I vote for dendydoom

i can parrot them dw

[Sightld2]

goddamnit why can't I vote for dendydoom

Unironically hoping they get host-vote

[GPeckman]

The logic that people preferred to be skeletons over androids, therefore every player that became a skeleton was in a metagang because one (1) person that did also refused your offer is derranged.

There are metagangs on Manuel, none of those people are in one together. You also can't judge a metagang by a single interaction metagangs are about consistent ingroup preferences.

Android sect was refused because it's not novel, alot of chaplains do that. Envy knife skeleton gang is a lot more novel.

Except that, as I've pointed out, turning into a skeleton is actually not that much more uncommon than turning into an android:

Aight, lets put this "virtually any round" thing to the test. I happen to have the logs files for 8728 rounds downloaded, for Sybil, Terry, and Manuel, from the very start of this year to roughly the end of June. Out of those 8728 rounds, do you know how many rounds had at least one android? 616. Not even a tenth of the total rounds. And some rounds probably only involve the chaplain themself becoming an android, so if we check how many rounds have at least 2 androids, we get... 271. Less than half the previous number. This is far cry from "virtually every round." Now, want to hear the kicker? You can become an ashen skeleton virtually every round. Legions often leave ashen skeleton bodies on death, and that's just one brain transplant away from becoming one yourself. To top things off, do you want to know how many rounds had one of those skeletons with a ckey? 341 rounds. So it isn't even that much rarer for people to become ashen skeletons than androids.

I'd say it means Manuel's is higher as I imagine most people would not have some random religious nutcase walk up to them, go "Hey wanna join my religion, sacrifice your humanity and irreversibly become a robot?" and answer "OH FUCK YEAH DUDE, SIGN ME UP"

People are playing characters, and while there's nothing wrong with characters that are fast and loose like that, I would certainly hope you're going to find less of them on Manuel, as more people are playing 'realistic' characters that respond to things in a way consistent with their personality, that probably includes a sense of self-preservation and general interest in not completely changing their life at the slightest whim.

If that's the case, then why were people so eager to completely change their life by becoming skeletons instead?

[Sightld2]

Again, I feel like you are judging "people" on mrp as a whole based on the actions of a couple people. I am still doubtful that all the people who were eager to become skeletons, are the same people you asked to be androids. We are not a monolith.

[conrad]

Again, I feel like you are judging "people" on mrp as a whole based on the actions of a couple people.

Half the candidate threads are using stuff like this as arguments lmao

"I'M DOING THIS 'COS THAT ONE TIME..."

I say get real. (not to you, you're based)

[CMDR_Gungnir]

If that's the case, then why were people so eager to completely change their life by becoming skeletons instead?

Half of the people in your example were tricked into being skeletons, and the other half are the people who don't mind doing that stuff?

[vect0r]

How the fuck can this be a meta gang? Nobody “knows” who “jizzerton the great” is, so how can my Manuel brain know which meta gang they are in? For all I know, they might be some LRP scum! I couldn’t let some Sybilite within 30 feet of my OC static with 59 pages of lore, and while has never left the bar of the station, so why would I let this wizard?

[Pepper]

Terry is the best server and has the most handsome and strong men playing it with huge muscles

The homoerotic demographic is truly the wild card of /tg/ voters

[WineAllWine]

So my top 5 votes as of now are probably Me > Iain > Ches > Chadley == kinebian.

[Lacran]

The logic that people preferred to be skeletons over androids, therefore every player that became a skeleton was in a metagang because one (1) person that did also refused your offer is derranged.

There are metagangs on Manuel, none of those people are in one together. You also can't judge a metagang by a single interaction metagangs are about consistent ingroup preferences.

Android sect was refused because it's not novel, alot of chaplains do that. Envy knife skeleton gang is a lot more novel.

Except that, as I've pointed out, turning into a skeleton is actually not that much more uncommon than turning into an android:

Aight, lets put this "virtually any round" thing to the test. I happen to have the logs files for 8728 rounds downloaded, for Sybil, Terry, and Manuel, from the very start of this year to roughly the end of June. Out of those 8728 rounds, do you know how many rounds had at least one android? 616. Not even a tenth of the total rounds. And some rounds probably only involve the chaplain themself becoming an android, so if we check how many rounds have at least 2 androids, we get... 271. Less than half the previous number. This is far cry from "virtually every round." Now, want to hear the kicker? You can become an ashen skeleton virtually every round. Legions often leave ashen skeleton bodies on death, and that's just one brain transplant away from becoming one yourself. To top things off, do you want to know how many rounds had one of those skeletons with a ckey? 341 rounds. So it isn't even that much rarer for people to become ashen skeletons than androids.

I'd say it means Manuel's is higher as I imagine most people would not have some random religious nutcase walk up to them, go "Hey wanna join my religion, sacrifice your humanity and irreversibly become a robot?" and answer "OH FUCK YEAH DUDE, SIGN ME UP"

People are playing characters, and while there's nothing wrong with characters that are fast and loose like that, I would certainly hope you're going to find less of them on Manuel, as more people are playing 'realistic' characters that respond to things in a way consistent with their personality, that probably includes a sense of self-preservation and general interest in not completely changing their life at the slightest whim.

If that's the case, then why were people so eager to completely change their life by becoming skeletons instead?

You just pointed out that androids are literally twice as common.

You are being an idiot. People didn't go a long with your idea because androids are lame, not because they are in a clique.

[GPeckman]

How the fuck can this be a meta gang? Nobody “knows” who “jizzerton the great” is, so how can my Manuel brain know which meta gang they are in? For all I know, they might be some LRP scum! I couldn’t let some Sybilite within 30 feet of my OC static with 59 pages of lore, and while has never left the bar of the station, so why would I let this wizard?

It wasn't the wizard who was actually getting people to become skeletons, it was some rando who got the wizard loot after the wizard died or something.

You just pointed out that androids are literally twice as common.

Twice as common isn't really that big of a difference in this context. I'd expect something like a 5 or 10 times difference before calling one significantly rarer than the other. Furthermore, the twice as common figure only applies if you include the rounds where only one person became an android (i.e. the chaplain only converted themself). If you count rounds where there are at least 2 androids, then its slightly less common than skeletons.

You are being an idiot. People didn't go a long with your idea because androids are lame, not because they are in a clique.

If multiple people are saying that Manuel has an issue with cliques, then maybe, just maybe, they might be right.

rp designations are meaningless in the first place because they're just a nebulous contrivance. mrp just means "more roleplay than lrp" and nothing more. manuel has the regular expectation of higher rp because of its ruleset, and i sincerely believe it would be to the grave detriment of everyone who plays there to have admins enforce some sort of standard beyond what is cultivated by the extended rules. no one wants to play in a space where the roleplay council are breathing down your neck and judging your contributions, and such behaviour is poisonous to creativity in the first place because it restricts the freedom of the sandbox down into a strict scope of "acceptable" rote behaviours that eventually become a stale, unbreakable paradigm.

we're here to be creative and enjoy the space sandbox together by contributing our own ideas and gameplay to the shared story. not to kowtow to someone's puritanical ideals of the perfect roleplay space where they're able to ensure they never lose through roleplay fiat rather than mechanics. if someone can't handle rolling with the punches of new unexpected situations but instead bring the entire game to a screeching halt because the rp isn't up to their standard and resulted in something they don't like then not only are they playing the wrong game but they're also not as good at rp as they think they are.

That's all perfectly fine, and I can definitely see the benefit of stamping down more harshly on shitter behavior. I just don't think people should misrepresent Manuel as something it isn't.

[Jacquerel]

i fell over on manuel and all the sphagetti fell out of my pockets and everyone around pointed and laughed, i think its because they were in a meta clique
you might say that there's other reasons they might have been laughing (such as the spaghetti) but given the high number of other people who say that manuel is rife with metaclique behaviour it's unreasonable to assume there was any other cause for this event, i probably wouldn't even have tripped if not for all of the clique's metaing it up over there

[Lacran]

You are being an idiot. People didn't go a long with your idea because androids are lame, not because they are in a clique.

If multiple people are saying that Manuel has an issue with cliques, then maybe, just maybe, they might be right.

Manuel does have a clique issue. Players choosing to become skeletons over androids one time isn't an example of clique behaviour.

It's asinine to assume these players didn't go with your idea due to them all being in a specific metaclique based on your singular interaction with them.

Androids are twice as likely as skeletons, it takes time to make someone an android compared to getting ash skeleton instantly from magic wizard gear.

I play Manuel and I know most of the cliques and I can tell you none of those players are in one, let alone in one together.

Infact the player that converted those skeletons the one you're accusing of benefitting from a Manuel metaclique plays more LRP than MRP. They have more played games on Sybil alone than Manuel: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/Cheeseromancer

Ironic considering you were just talking about how similar the interactions were to Sybil:

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

That's because your gimmick lost to another sybilite.

[GPeckman]

Androids are twice as likely as skeletons, it takes time to make someone an android compared to getting ash skeleton instantly from magic wizard gear.

Becoming an android takes less than 30 seconds in the chapel. It is longer, yes, but still barely any time at all in the grand scheme of things.

I play Manuel and I know most of the cliques and I can tell you none of those players are in one, let alone in one together.

Infact the player that converted those skeletons the one you're accusing of benefitting from a Manuel metaclique plays more LRP than MRP. They have more played games on Sybil alone than Manuel: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/Cheeseromancer

Ironic considering you were just talking about how similar the interactions were to Sybil:

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

That's because your gimmick lost to another sybilite.

The player has 302 rounds on Manuel, compared to 325 on Sybil. Are you seriously saying that 300 rounds isn't enough for someone to be considered a 'true' Manuel player?

i fell over on manuel and all the sphagetti fell out of my pockets and everyone around pointed and laughed, i think its because they were in a meta clique
you might say that there's other reasons they might have been laughing (such as the spaghetti) but given the high number of other people who say that manuel is rife with metaclique behaviour it's unreasonable to assume there was any other cause for this event, i probably wouldn't even have tripped if not for all of the clique's metaing it up over there

And here come the baseless strawman arguments. Totally a great way to prove your point.

[dendydoom]

there is no evidence to suggest that the reason some people wanted to be skeletons and some people didn't want to be cyborgs is because they're all in a metagang and are intentionally excluding you. the average manuel player dislikes the idea of metagangs just as much as you do. metacomming is investigated pretty thoroughly and people who are caught doing it usually get a permaban. it's something that's taken very seriously and most players are aware of what the expectations are around this.

hypothetically, if you were an admin in this situation and someone came to you with this story as a report, what would you do about it? what is actionable here?

[GPeckman]

there is no evidence to suggest that the reason some people wanted to be skeletons and some people didn't want to be cyborgs is because they're all in a metagang and are intentionally excluding you. the average manuel player dislikes the idea of metagangs just as much as you do. metacomming is investigated pretty thoroughly and people who are caught doing it usually get a permaban. it's something that's taken very seriously and most players are aware of what the expectations are around this.

hypothetically, if you were an admin in this situation and someone came to you with this story as a report, what would you do about it? what is actionable here?

If you think I'm saying that people were actually breaking rules, then you're misunderstanding me. Metaganging and metacomming are two very different things; the first generally boils down sticking near the same group of people and interacting mostly with those people every round, and perhaps giving those people preferential treatment. My understanding is that this is only against the rules in very extreme cases. The second involves explicit, out of game communication between players. I'm arguing that the former is common on Manuel, not the latter, though also that the average quality of roleplay on Manuel is not really much higher than on Sybil, if its higher at all.

[dendydoom]

there is no evidence to suggest that the reason some people wanted to be skeletons and some people didn't want to be cyborgs is because they're all in a metagang and are intentionally excluding you. the average manuel player dislikes the idea of metagangs just as much as you do. metacomming is investigated pretty thoroughly and people who are caught doing it usually get a permaban. it's something that's taken very seriously and most players are aware of what the expectations are around this.

hypothetically, if you were an admin in this situation and someone came to you with this story as a report, what would you do about it? what is actionable here?

If you think I'm saying that people were actually breaking rules, then you're misunderstanding me. Metaganging and metacomming are two very different things; the first generally boils down sticking near the same group of people and interacting mostly with those people every round, and perhaps giving those people preferential treatment. My understanding is that this is only against the rules in very extreme cases. The second involves explicit, out of game communication between players. I'm arguing that the former is common on Manuel, not the latter, though also that the average quality of roleplay on Manuel is not really much higher than on Sybil, if its higher at all.

the same players giving each other preferential treatment with no IC reason is against the rules and most admins, i imagine, would ask them to stop.

yes, some groups of players like playing with each other regularly. they need an IC reason to be doing so. an antagonist who has trouble isolating their target because they're an engineer and hang around with the other engineers is a lot different than trying to assassinate an assistant but they keep hanging around with the captain because they're OOC friends. but this single anecdote that you're using as infallible proof to its prevalence just sounds a little paranoid. these groups exist on every server. it's called having friends.

[Lacran]

I play Manuel and I know most of the cliques and I can tell you none of those players are in one, let alone in one together.

Infact the player that converted those skeletons the one you're accusing of benefitting from a Manuel metaclique plays more LRP than MRP. They have more played games on Sybil alone than Manuel: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/Cheeseromancer

Ironic considering you were just talking about how similar the interactions were to Sybil:

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

That's because your gimmick lost to another sybilite.

The player has 302 rounds on Manuel, compared to 325 on Sybil. Are you seriously saying that 300 rounds isn't enough for someone to be considered a 'true' Manuel player?

I'm saying your example of a Manuel metaclique is a guy with almost double the play time on LRP servers convincing others to go with his gimmick over yours.

The dude plays Sybil more than Manuel and has almost 150 more rounds on the LRP servers. You said yourself he rps like a sybilite.

At what point do you stop bitching and realise people aren't conspiring against you?

[Shellton(Mario)]

I play Manuel and I know most of the cliques and I can tell you none of those players are in one, let alone in one together.

Infact the player that converted those skeletons the one you're accusing of benefitting from a Manuel metaclique plays more LRP than MRP. They have more played games on Sybil alone than Manuel: https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/Cheeseromancer

Ironic considering you were just talking about how similar the interactions were to Sybil:

Edit: If someone showed logs like these to me and said they were from Sybil I wouldn't question it at all. This looks right at home there, and I say that as someone with hundreds of hours on Sybil.

That's because your gimmick lost to another sybilite.

The player has 302 rounds on Manuel, compared to 325 on Sybil. Are you seriously saying that 300 rounds isn't enough for someone to be considered a 'true' Manuel player?

I'm saying your example of a Manuel metaclique is a guy with almost double the play time on LRP servers convincing others to go with his gimmick over yours.

The dude plays Sybil more than Manuel and has almost 150 more rounds on the LRP servers. You said yourself he rps like a sybilite.

At what point do you stop bitching and realise people aren't conspiring against you?

What the fuck are you guys talking about

[Jacquerel]

And here come the baseless strawman arguments. Totally a great way to prove your point.

This is some real metagang behaviour you're displaying, and I heard this guy once played a round on manuel so there's a lot of evidence to support it.

[GPeckman]

the same players giving each other preferential treatment with no IC reason is against the rules and most admins, i imagine, would ask them to stop.

yes, some groups of players like playing with each other regularly. they need an IC reason to be doing so. an antagonist who has trouble isolating their target because they're an engineer and hang around with the other engineers is a lot different than trying to assassinate an assistant but they keep hanging around with the captain because they're OOC friends. but this single anecdote that you're using as infallible proof to its prevalence just sounds a little paranoid. these groups exist on every server. it's called having friends.

Its not just my anecdote. Several other people in this thread have said that Manuel has this issue:

There are metagangs on Manuel

They shun LRPers with their metagangs when they try to join Manuel while also trying to legislate their style of fun onto the rest of the community..

I'm saying your example of a Manuel metaclique is a guy with almost double the play time on LRP servers convincing others to go with his gimmick over yours.

The dude plays Sybil more than Manuel and has almost 150 more rounds on the LRP servers. You said yourself he rps like a sybilite.

The guy doesn't have double the play time on LRP servers. As a matter of fact, he has more play time on Manuel than on all the LRP servers put together!

At what point do you stop bitching and realise people aren't conspiring against you?

I'm not saying that there's some sort of grand conspiracy to specifically screw me over. I'm saying that people on Manuel tend to shun interactions with people that they don't recognize in favor of people that they do. This leads to an environment that is generally unfriendly to newcomers, and I'm citing my own experiences as an example.

Why is this so hard for y'all to understand?

[dendydoom]

because it's not an issue that's endemic to manuel. there is no power structure within manuel that allows these metagangs to run the place, nor is it an issue that encompasses every regular player. there are a couple of small friend groups who are kinda bad at socializing and play the game in an insular way. we're aware of them and address their behaviour when it's problematic and detracts from rounds. we ensure that when they do play together they have IC reasoning to do so and aren't taking advantage of OOC connections to gain an advantage. like i said, the average manuel player hates this just as much as you do. admins take action on it when it's appropriate because players are good at reporting it and oftentimes players who are in these evil, nefarious metagangs weren't even aware of their behaviour and are shocked to learn that what they're doing is detrimental to the round and are more often than not extremely apologetic about it. they are just normal players who get a bit too insular with their handful of pals, not some shadow cabal hellbent on taking over the game.

there is no concerted effort here that can be used to define the server experience. every server has regular groups of players that recognize and react to one another, either with amicability or hostility. there are statics on every server that are recognized by that server's regular players and get a reaction that's stronger than someone who's brand new. it's normal, and if it becomes abnormal in that it breaks rules and detracts from the rounds regularly, then it should be dealt with. and it often is. this would be like me saying one time i got toolboxed on sybil while someone else didn't therefore there's a metagang of aggressive shitters that kill everyone who isn't in their gang. we both know using a single situation like that to make broad judgements of an entire server would be preposterous because the cultural machinations of a server that has hundreds of players is more complex than a few anecdotal situations.

and guess what? sometimes we get groups of players join that want to target the cringe roleplayers and try their damnedest to ruin the game for them because they buy into this nonsense. this whole thing is taking a minor aspect of a server's culture which sometimes creates a small problem and using it to define that server and its players in totality. it is little more than people creating their own boogeymen and sharpening their pitchforks over it. you are reading too much into what manuel is supposed to be and in doing so are disregarding what it actually is. it's sybil 2 with a handful of extra rules around conflict to try and create a more structured environment for roleplay that involves conflict. that's where the differences begin and end. the scant few who decry manuel for not being "mrp enough" are a vocal minority who are more often than not ignored because they're doing the same thing by getting caught up in problems that exist more in their own heads than in reality. those same players are often the ones who burn out extremely quickly and then leave because the game will never match up to whatever vision is in their head.

[conrad]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

[Cheshify]

Why are debates getting locked I haven't responded to some of them >:(

[TheLoLSwat]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I’m sorry Conrad but “hours????” Is too easy of a comeback in too many situations

[kinnebian]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I’m sorry Conrad but “hours????” Is too easy of a comeback in too many situations

youre allowed to use it sometimes

[conrad]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I’m sorry Conrad but “hours????” Is too easy of a comeback in too many situations

youre allowed to use it sometimes

It's incredibly lame. I take breaks and play other games. The hours I play shoud not factor on whether an argument is valid or not. I should not have to force myself to play the game and burn out to have a point discussed. An argument should stand or fall on its own two legs.

Equaly I can imagine (had have seen similar stuff) people discriminating against someone with like 2000+ hours as a no-life chronically online loser. That's fucking presumptious and cringe.

Even Ekaterina analyses people's arguments based on their own merits. Be better.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I'm saying your example of a Manuel metaclique is a guy with almost double the play time on LRP servers convincing others to go with his gimmick over yours.

The dude plays Sybil more than Manuel and has almost 150 more rounds on the LRP servers. You said yourself he rps like a sybilite.

At what point do you stop bitching and realise people aren't conspiring against you?

He's simultaneously saying "MY GIMMICK DIDN'T WORK BECAUSE MANUEL PLAYERS ARE METAGANGERS" and "IF THE RP QUALITY ON MANUEL BEING HIGHER IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO, THEN WHY'D PEOPLE JOIN?"

Whatever you say to him he's going to pull something new out of his ass because he's a tribalistic twat and the forum jannies, despite saying how much they hate tribalism, will never actually do anything about it.

Just don't feed the troll. We gave them the benefit of the doubt, and they showed us, now we walk away.

[dendydoom]

i have irc logs from 2007 where me and my dnd group are discussing ss13 rounds. i was playing this dumb game when some mfs here were still latched to a tit for sustenance.

there are still people who know more about the game and how it works than i do. you don't need 2k hours tracked playtime to be able to have an opinion and it isn't necessarily a good metric to measure how much someone knows or how good someone is. some people play 1 job for 1k hours and never even interact with half the systems in the game. some people play 300 hours in the span of a couple months, learn every job mechanic and then burn out and quit forever.

look after your dang selves and quit being elitist over what server you play on and for how long. it's dumb as hell.

[Timberpoes]

Ice cold facts from dendy.

[conrad]

i have irc logs from 2007 where me and my dnd group are discussing ss13 rounds. i was playing this dumb game when some mfs here were still latched to a tit for sustenance.

there are still people who know more about the game and how it works than i do. you don't need 2k hours tracked playtime to be able to have an opinion and it isn't necessarily a good metric to measure how much someone knows or how good someone is. some people play 1 job for 1k hours and never even interact with half the systems in the game. some people play 300 hours in the span of a couple months, learn every job mechanic and then burn out and quit forever.

look after your dang selves and quit being elitist over what server you play on and for how long. it's dumb as hell.

Secret actually host voted dendi is correct again.

[kinnebian]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I’m sorry Conrad but “hours????” Is too easy of a comeback in too many situations

youre allowed to use it sometimes

It's incredibly lame. I take breaks and play other games. The hours I play shoud not factor on whether an argument is valid or not. I should not have to force myself to play the game and burn out to have a point discussed. An argument should stand or fall on its own two legs.

Equaly I can imagine (had have seen similar stuff) people discriminating against someone with like 2000+ hours as a no-life chronically online loser. That's fucking presumptious and cringe.

Even Ekaterina analyses people's arguments based on their own merits. Be better.

if someone is being an elitist about how lrp players suck ass with 0 time on lrp ofc im going to call them out for it, its a valid argument to make

earlier in this forum someone was complaining about mrp with 29 minutes on it, so i called them out for it and they agreed to play a shift of mrp and changed their mind about hating it

its a valid thing to point out when someone is making rash or unfair judgements without any or sufficient experience

[Archie700]

Simple solution. Enforce random naming. If Manuel is truly MRP then people will not have trouble - as roleplayers - playing a completely random character and interacting with completely random people.

If you guys are admitting that Manuel is just sybil but with additional rules, then you guys didn't create an MRP server.

I'm going to enforce it on Terry just for this post alone

[iwishforducks]

Why are debates getting locked I haven't responded to some of them >:(

im assuming its because some of them are low effort or not serious enough but honestly idk why my music thread got locked

[RedBaronFlyer]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I get why the argument for hours can be bad, but at the same time, I want admins/headmins that actually play the game, even if they mostly observe. Sometimes it comes across like maintainers or headmins (mostly maintainers) have this weird idealized 1950s-style white picket fence version of SS13 in their head. (see JohnFulpWillard thinking that assistants will just queue up in line like good little crewmembers for maint access if they get maint access at roundstart removed)

I want headmins, admins, and maintainers who are in the trenches with the player base to see firsthand how their policies and contributions affect the game. You can have a high round count from years ago while also not having played a full round of SS13 in over a year.

[dendydoom]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I get why the argument for hours can be bad, but at the same time, I want admins/headmins that actually play the game, even if they mostly observe. Sometimes it comes across like maintainers or headmins (mostly maintainers) have this weird idealized 1950s-style white picket fence version of SS13 in their head. (see JohnFulpWillard thinking that assistants will just queue up in line like good little crewmembers for maint access if they get maint access at roundstart removed)

I want headmins, admins, and maintainers who are in the trenches with the player base to see firsthand how their policies and contributions affect the game. You can have a high round count from years ago while also not having played a full round of SS13 in over a year.

the best thing you can hope for with a player is that they have a healthy relationship with the game. that they're not so all-in that it's all they do and all they care about. some people with ridiculously high playtimes have some of the most deranged takes i've ever heard because they're way over-invested.

i agree with you that it's nice to see headmins and admins participating in the game. it was very nice this term to see kieth pop in regularly and hang out with everyone and check out how it's all going. but more than anything i want admins/headmins *especially* to not treat the game like it's their life's purpose and that they have to fight tooth and nail for or against every change. they need to maintain a healthy perspective on the fact that it's a multiplayer roleplaying game, not a way of life. if someone is playing for 8 hours a day almost every day of the week and wearing that like a badge of honour then i am genuinely concerned for their wellbeing. please look after yourselves.

[TheBibleMelts]

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?"

[The Wrench]

Eh, as the fellow who played Manuel, it just felt like Sybil. The metagang issue was still there kind of but they weren’t hostile. They just kind of clustered together. If I ever decide I want a chill shift, I’ll go to Manuel. If I decide that I want an exciting shift I will go to the LRP servers. I still believe it’s a glorified chat room/ retirement home for TG boomers fighting off burnout only via hanging out with internet friends.

[The Wrench]

Forgive me for the double post, but Manuel isn’t evil.

[Shellton(Mario)]

Forgive me for the double post, but Manuel isn’t evil.

Yes but double posters are, begone

[conrad]

if someone is being an elitist about how lrp players suck ass with 0 time on lrp ofc im going to call them out for it, its a valid argument to make

earlier in this forum someone was complaining about mrp with 29 minutes on it, so i called them out for it and they agreed to play a shift of mrp and changed their mind about hating it

its a valid thing to point out when someone is making rash or unfair judgements without any or sufficient experience

Then use your own hours. Say with your experience you have done x y and z and what they're saying is wrong. "I got 500 recent hours on Manuel and that doesn't happen" is fine. If they insist and you're stalking them on scrubby, you're just feeding the trolls. If you're pre-firing and throwing scrubby as your first response, that's really cringe.

E: just also noticed the irony of responding to someone being elititist with "you don't have enough hours to know what you're talking about".

[kinnebian]

if someone is being an elitist about how lrp players suck ass with 0 time on lrp ofc im going to call them out for it, its a valid argument to make

earlier in this forum someone was complaining about mrp with 29 minutes on it, so i called them out for it and they agreed to play a shift of mrp and changed their mind about hating it

its a valid thing to point out when someone is making rash or unfair judgements without any or sufficient experience

Then use your own hours. Say with your experience you have done x y and z and what they're saying is wrong. "I got 500 recent hours on Manuel and that doesn't happen" is fine. If they insist and you're stalking them on scrubby, you're just feeding the trolls. If you're pre-firing and throwing scrubby as your first response, that's really cringe.

E: just also noticed the irony of responding to someone being elititist with "you don't have enough hours to know what you're talking about".

You missed my point entirely!
When someone is using their experience on a server as the basis for their reasoning on why people there suck, youre allowed to call them out if they have no actual experience on the server!

[Timonk]

i am the host pick of timberpoes. look at my signature.

[conrad]

if someone is being an elitist about how lrp players suck ass with 0 time on lrp ofc im going to call them out for it, its a valid argument to make

earlier in this forum someone was complaining about mrp with 29 minutes on it, so i called them out for it and they agreed to play a shift of mrp and changed their mind about hating it

its a valid thing to point out when someone is making rash or unfair judgements without any or sufficient experience

Then use your own hours. Say with your experience you have done x y and z and what they're saying is wrong. "I got 500 recent hours on Manuel and that doesn't happen" is fine. If they insist and you're stalking them on scrubby, you're just feeding the trolls. If you're pre-firing and throwing scrubby as your first response, that's really cringe.

E: just also noticed the irony of responding to someone being elititist with "you don't have enough hours to know what you're talking about".

You missed my point entirely!
When someone is using their experience on a server as the basis for their reasoning on why people there suck, youre allowed to call them out if they have no actual experience on the server!

I undestood that. Maybe I'll concede in this particular instance when someone goes "[server] sucky" and has next to no playtime. What I find really dissapointing is shit like "bro has 60 hours in the game and is talking about [x] lmao what a [slur]" 'cos it's...really fucking cringe.

[TheLoLSwat]

Also things like balance and meta because why are you trying to tell me thermals are mid with no hours to your name

[Misdoubtful]

I'm gonna run for headmin next term and ban everyone from the forums that uses fucking playtime as a way to put someone down.

I get why the argument for hours can be bad, but at the same time, I want admins/headmins that actually play the game, even if they mostly observe. Sometimes it comes across like maintainers or headmins (mostly maintainers) have this weird idealized 1950s-style white picket fence version of SS13 in their head. (see JohnFulpWillard thinking that assistants will just queue up in line like good little crewmembers for maint access if they get maint access at roundstart removed)

I want headmins, admins, and maintainers who are in the trenches with the player base to see firsthand how their policies and contributions affect the game. You can have a high round count from years ago while also not having played a full round of SS13 in over a year.

the best thing you can hope for with a player is that they have a healthy relationship with the game. that they're not so all-in that it's all they do and all they care about. some people with ridiculously high playtimes have some of the most deranged takes i've ever heard because they're way over-invested.

i agree with you that it's nice to see headmins and admins participating in the game. it was very nice this term to see kieth pop in regularly and hang out with everyone and check out how it's all going. but more than anything i want admins/headmins *especially* to not treat the game like it's their life's purpose and that they have to fight tooth and nail for or against every change. they need to maintain a healthy perspective on the fact that it's a multiplayer roleplaying game, not a way of life. if someone is playing for 8 hours a day almost every day of the week and wearing that like a badge of honour then i am genuinely concerned for their wellbeing. please look after yourselves.

A large portion of the recurring player base.

The more of a life someone has the better.

TG as well as other servers have or used to have time gate requirements for admining, like 1000 hours or 1000 rounds. That's a lot, absurd honestly.

I will say that TG tends to favor the sort of people that play multiple rounds of this game 5-7 days a week, and anyone can look that up and verify it. It gets lower the longer someone admins but it's still something that makes people look 'good'. Does it really though?

I certainly couldn't play this game for 3-5 hours a day every day.

I only fit that mould during the pandemic for a few months because there was literally nothing else to do, and it's probably the only reason I was kidnapped to admin land. It's honestly just questionably unhealthy otherwise and I'm not interested in people or myself being that active.

Good activity to me would even be someone playing two rounds a week, maybe even less. It tells me that someone has a life, or a plethora of other hobbies, or really just doesn't live in a headspace where they might make this game into a far bigger deal than it is, because in the end it's just a game.

DNI: The dangerously parasocial terminally online and overly involved that let this game be more important than it is in unhealthy toxic ways

[wesoda25]

Uh huh hugs go off

[iwishforducks]

genuine preach

whenever i see someone that has like 15 rounds a day the past 100 days i let out the biggest wtf of my life. having 1500 rounds in the past 180 days is not a bragging moment. go fuckin live your life. i love ss13 and tg but i also love and respect my time more.