I dont trust logs

[MooCow12]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34678


He could be lieing he could be telling the truth.

But at the end of the day, the code that logs everything for admins is written by contributors and can have bugs in it, infact its most likely to have very very old bugs because of the fact that logs are very often not used within play and are more backend away where the vast majority of the community can still take a look at but only a small minority of us actually care to.

[kinnebian]

theres a conspiracy afoot...

[Vekter]

I can safely say that I've never seen a situation where bolting or unbolting a door failed to log.

There's also reason to believe that they are lying here given that they were explicitly trying to hunt the heretic beforehand and were told by the captain that they were updating their laws to remove their human status.

Also, the argument that "our code is made by volunteers so it's possible it was bugged" is dumb and could be applied to literally any instance of anything happening ever in our codebase. That's like saying that someone who threw a body in the SM shouldn't be held responsible because it's possible his game bugged out and turned on throw intent without him realizing it.

[MooCow12]

I just want to clarify im not making an arguement to explicitly defend them I just have issues with how little logs are scrutinized and tested, I would do it myself if I knew how to quickly do that on a private server.

[MooCow12]

That's like saying that someone who threw a body in the SM shouldn't be held responsible because it's possible his game bugged out and turned on throw intent without him realizing it.

Funfact I bombed my teammate as a rev once because their "R" icon didnt appear next to their head and the admin (omega) had to inform me that I just rr`d a teammate xd.

Luckily i was recording.

[Vekter]

I just want to clarify im not making an arguement to explicitly defend them I just have issues with how little logs are scrutinized and tested, I would do it myself if I knew how to quickly do that on a private server.

Logs are usually taken as law because the code behind logs is relatively simple. If a log fails, 99% of the time it's because the code for whatever you're doing failed and didn't actually take effect, so whatever was trying to be logged didn't actually happen.

[MooCow12]

Logs are usually taken as law because the code behind logs is relatively simple.

One of my bug fixes was literally just a simple math error ,-, people make mistakes but i dont doubt logs arnt complex.

[iamgoofball]

I just want to clarify im not making an arguement to explicitly defend them I just have issues with how little logs are scrutinized and tested, I would do it myself if I knew how to quickly do that on a private server.

logging code is extremely low level, if it's broken there are bigger problems in a round like the master controller being probably dead

[Jacquerel]

I don't bother reading anyone's posts because they might have made a human error and typed the wrong words, I just intuit what I think they posted.

[iwishforducks]

it's more likely they ctrl clicked the door and didn't realize that it was bolted in the first place. after all, it was their borg who bolted it, not themselves. there's also no audio queue as AI on whether or not it was a bolt or unbolt. i can see how someone can mistakenly unbolt the thing. it's also completely possible the bolt lights were off, but i don't know if logs would show that.

there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.

[Vekter]

it's more likely they ctrl clicked the door and didn't realize that it was bolted in the first place. after all, it was their borg who bolted it, not themselves. there's also no audio queue as AI on whether or not it was a bolt or unbolt. i can see how someone can mistakenly unbolt the thing. it's also completely possible the bolt lights were off, but i don't know if logs would show that.

there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.

Probably not, but the issue was that the captain explicitly said he was going to change the AI's laws to make someone non-human and the AI did nothing to actually prevent it.

[BlueMemesauce]

The captain has a door remote to unbolt doors so its not like bolting the doors even matters to the appeal, it wouldn't have stopped the captain anyway. The only thing bolting does is stop the RD from breaking in I think, since the captain has a remote and the CE has tools.
Also, by saying "if you had at least done something to attempt to stop him it would have been better, but you did nothing for the full minute leading to the law change", I assume the admin means that the AI should have turned off the apc or turned on the turrets? But upload turret fights and apc fights are really annoying, so it's dumb to ban them for not wanting to do that. It would have just prolonged the inevitable, since the captain would probably sit there screaming until someone came for backup and uploaded the law.

unban James566!!

[conrad]

The captain has a door remote to unbolt doors so its not like bolting the doors even matters to the appeal, it wouldn't have stopped the captain anyway. The only thing bolting does is stop the RD from breaking in I think, since the captain has a remote and the CE has tools.
Also, by saying "if you had at least done something to attempt to stop him it would have been better, but you did nothing for the full minute leading to the law change", I assume the admin means that the AI should have turned off the apc or turned on the turrets? But upload turret fights and apc fights are really annoying, so it's dumb to ban them for not wanting to do that. It would have just prolonged the inevitable, since the captain would probably sit there screaming until someone came for backup and uploaded the law.

unban James566!!

He isn't even banned anymore dude it was a one day ban lmao

[iwishforducks]

it's more likely they ctrl clicked the door and didn't realize that it was bolted in the first place. after all, it was their borg who bolted it, not themselves. there's also no audio queue as AI on whether or not it was a bolt or unbolt. i can see how someone can mistakenly unbolt the thing. it's also completely possible the bolt lights were off, but i don't know if logs would show that.

there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.

Probably not, but the issue was that the captain explicitly said he was going to change the AI's laws to make someone non-human and the AI did nothing to actually prevent it.

well bolting the door to the AI upload and turning on the turrets is about all you can do, really. which is what they said they did.

[Misdoubtful]

If logs lie and 90% of what admins go off of is logs, we're screwed.

[conrad]

If logs lie and 90% of what admins go off of is logs, we're screwed.

If you're curious, the other 10% is spawning bears.

[Turbonerd]

Dude's just lying and is probably a child. There's no way someone can be that unaware of everything, accidentally unbolting airlocks twice, accidentally reminding the captain their dehumanization laws failed, and accidentally let the captain upload. All that while hunting a heretic, then immediately killing it when receiving the law.

[Fikou]

Logs can be wrong, my first ban on SS13 was during the summer ball where the grenade wrongs were broken and showed me as throwing a gasnade into the crowd when i was on the other side of the map. People can fuck stuff like order up in logs, putting attacker as victim and vice versa etc. But it's rare, and usually fixed pretty quickly, and for stuff like bolting doors, there isn't really anything to fuck up. you just have an ai mob and a door.

[datorangebottle]

Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.

[zergking]

I don't trust the admins. Literally the biggest validhunters out there.

[Archie700]

Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg

Roll for Perception.

[dirk_mcblade]

I really don't like validhunter AIs

[datorangebottle]

Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg

Roll for Perception.

What does this get me?

[Archie700]

Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg

Roll for Perception.

What does this get me?
dice.jpg

The logs seem perfectly normal.

[datorangebottle]

Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg

Roll for Perception.

What does this get me?
dice.jpg

The logs seem perfectly normal.

I cast magic missile at the log.

[Archie700]

Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg

Roll for Perception.

What does this get me?
dice.jpg

The logs seem perfectly normal.

I cast magic missile at the log.

The logs shapeshift to their original form, a group of pissed off red dragons.

[dirk_mcblade]

Those don't sound like normal logs at all, I thought we agreed that we roll natty 20s outside of combat situations.

[Archie700]

Those don't sound like normal logs at all, I thought we agreed that we roll natty 20s outside of combat situations.

....

*rolls*

There are 20 red dragons.