Concerning that mosin nagant sprite pr

[dirk_mcblade]

Bottom post of the previous page:

And the other gun sprite do over PRs. The syndicate revolver in particular.
I've heard some of the spritemakers saying they're doing it out of spite towards gun fans, to make them mad.
But there's nothing worse you can do to the mosin nagant than what bubba has done already.

What you're actually doing is making anyone with an IQ above room temperature upset over the gun resprites.
Is this what you want to do? Spriting guns to make them bubba'd?

[dirk_mcblade]

I'm going to endorse chesify as second to bottom pick for the elections on my YouTube channel because they endorsed the mosin nagant resprite in the PR so that's me doing my little part. I'll do the same for any other people running for headmin who signed off on it but that's the only one I noticed.

[kinnebian]

Having some empathy is nice, Kinneb. At the very least, people get to vent. Going "you're not even doing anything", "this thread is a waste of my time" and "I don't give a fuck" is exactly what doesn't help.

im not stopping them from venting im telling them that they should go complain to the people in charge and saying its stupid when they dont even try to
i said "this thread is a waste of my time and yours" because i think you should value your time and if youre that upset it might be better to make an appeal to someone higher up on the food chain

"you're not even doing anything"
"I don't give a fuck"

didnt say either of these

[BrolyButterfingers]

Having some empathy is nice, Kinneb. At the very least, people get to vent. Going "you're not even doing anything", "this thread is a waste of my time" and "I don't give a fuck" is exactly what doesn't help.

im not stopping them from venting im telling them that they should go complain to the people in charge and saying its stupid when they dont even try to
i said "this thread is a waste of my time and yours" because i think you should value your time and if youre that upset it might be better to make an appeal to someone higher up on the food chain

"you're not even doing anything"
"I don't give a fuck"

didnt say either of these

lmao why would you suggest this when you're just as aware as everyone else how notorious of assholes a lot of those people are

[dirk_mcblade]

"Bro why are you people even complaining about this together"
Communicating together is the first step towards organization, what else do you propose us to do with our time when we're shitposting?

[junkgle]

there is so many things i could say about specific spriters and their little buttbuddies but i'd just prefer to contribute somewhere else entirely
some people just don't like to play nice with others

[conrad]

Having some empathy is nice, Kinneb. At the very least, people get to vent. Going "you're not even doing anything", "this thread is a waste of my time" and "I don't give a fuck" is exactly what doesn't help.

im not stopping them from venting im telling them that they should go complain to the people in charge and saying its stupid when they dont even try to
i said "this thread is a waste of my time and yours" because i think you should value your time and if youre that upset it might be better to make an appeal to someone higher up on the food chain

Telling someone to hat in hand ask maintainers anything is pointless, as the well known establishment is that "player opinion doesn't matter". In a situation where people are venting, telling them they're wasting their time is just...mean. Maintainers already don't give a shit what people say. I don't think anyone needs more people doing that. If what you're trying to do is encourage people to code themselves so they can have some level of authority over those changes, positive wording works better to convey positive intent.

"you're not even doing anything"
"I don't give a fuck"

didnt say either of these

then whats the point of this thread?
(...)
might as well do something productive

Anne dropped the "I don't give a fuck" bit. Not a fan of that.

What bothers me is the indication this can be fixed. The mosins are dead. You can't stop someone from removing something from the game you like, especially if it's sprite work veiled as game soul extraction.

[kinnebian]

Having some empathy is nice, Kinneb. At the very least, people get to vent. Going "you're not even doing anything", "this thread is a waste of my time" and "I don't give a fuck" is exactly what doesn't help.

im not stopping them from venting im telling them that they should go complain to the people in charge and saying its stupid when they dont even try to
i said "this thread is a waste of my time and yours" because i think you should value your time and if youre that upset it might be better to make an appeal to someone higher up on the food chain

Telling someone to hat in hand ask maintainers anything is pointless, as the well known establishment is that "player opinion doesn't matter". In a situation where people are venting, telling them they're wasting their time is just...mean. Maintainers already don't give a shit what people say. I don't think anyone needs more people doing that. If what you're trying to do is encourage people to code themselves so they can have some level of authority over those changes, positive wording works better to convey positive intent.

"you're not even doing anything"
"I don't give a fuck"

didnt say either of these

then whats the point of this thread?
(...)
might as well do something productive

Anne dropped the "I don't give a fuck" bit. Not a fan of that.

What bothers me is the indication this can be fixed. The mosins are dead. You can't stop someone from removing something from the game you like, especially if it's sprite work veiled as game soul extraction.

fair enough

[NecromancerAnne]

Do you think any discussion would've resulted in the mosin reskin not getting merged? I don't think it was avoidable regardless of its popularity.

I mean, yes. Discussion would have not had it merged as much as discussion did have it merged. The person who made the pr and did the sprites was open to discussion, was discussing matters with people, responding to feedback, and discussing the matter with spritetainers and was very good about it. They made compelling arguments to a spritemaint and they agreed on that. It wasn't going to be merged without at least talking to someone and making a good pitch to the people that matter in whether or not it is merged.

Hell, here is one spritemaint who disagreed. That suggests there is room for further discussion, and not the unanimous decision to allow it that people claim. It's just that the team largely trusts one another if someone believes strongly enough that something should be merged. And if nobody agrees, this pr goes stale and nothing happens.

The conversations are taking place in a public format, there were disagreements, and there was criticism. As I said, someone is already redoing them again. That's form of criticism in of itself, and a healthy one.

Just telling someone 'no this sucks' and repeating to them the reasons they feel it should be changed ultimately isn't going to necessarily persuade someone to not do something. They see that as the reason to make those changes. In addition, since there is disagreement from spritemaints about the matter, it could be altered given time and discussion.

[zxaber]

Sporterizing a mosin isn't the worst thing you can do.

(And technically, this is two mosins)

[Dax Dupont]

They should've just kept both and made everybody happy.

[BrolyButterfingers]

They should've just kept both and made everybody happy.

Yeah why in fuck did it have to replace anything

[RedBaronFlyer]

They should've just kept both and made everybody happy.

Yeah why in fuck did it have to replace anything

Been a while since I last read the mosin PR thread but from my understanding, the PR author wanted it to replace the Mosin and the Mosin specifically and didn't budge when it came to the "this looks cool, but can it be a separate gun" camp.

I guarantee if someone makes a resprite to make it the Mosin again it'll be under way more maintainer scrutiny than changing it from the Mosin to the "Sakhno" (fun fact I had to go looking for the PR to find the actual name since people just call it "the mosin" or "rifle" now.)

The gun still looks way too fancy for a non-syndicate item, and it completely killed the "piece of shit that barely fucking works" feeling that the mosin provided prior to the resprite. The older a design is, the bigger and better the reason it should need to be completely redesigned, flavored, renamed, etc. (obviously this don't apply to respriting something)

[dirk_mcblade]

Do you think any discussion would've resulted in the mosin reskin not getting merged? I don't think it was avoidable regardless of its popularity.

I mean, yes. Discussion would have not had it merged as much as discussion did have it merged. The person who made the pr and did the sprites was open to discussion, was discussing matters with people, responding to feedback, and discussing the matter with spritetainers and was very good about it. They made compelling arguments to a spritemaint and they agreed on that. It wasn't going to be merged without at least talking to someone and making a good pitch to the people that matter in whether or not it is merged.

Hell, here is one spritemaint who disagreed. That suggests there is room for further discussion, and not the unanimous decision to allow it that people claim. It's just that the team largely trusts one another if someone believes strongly enough that something should be merged. And if nobody agrees, this pr goes stale and nothing happens.

The conversations are taking place in a public format, there were disagreements, and there was criticism. As I said, someone is already redoing them again. That's form of criticism in of itself, and a healthy one.

Just telling someone 'no this sucks' and repeating to them the reasons they feel it should be changed ultimately isn't going to necessarily persuade someone to not do something. They see that as the reason to make those changes. In addition, since there is disagreement from spritemaints about the matter, it could be altered given time and discussion.

Right, so my opinion as a non spritemaintainer is irrelevant to the discussion. The argument of "You should have provided free labor for months or years and gotten promoted and then you would have gotten one vote against it and maybe have made an impact" doesn't change the merits of whether the mosin deserved to get yeeted in favor of a fictitious bolt action rifle from 2400.
Which again is laughable. There will never be a bolt action rifle mass produced on the same scale as the mosin nagant in the future unless we nuke ourselves into the stone age. The bolt action is obsolete as a general issue firearm and nowadays only limited to /some/ snipers (a lot of them use semi automatics regardless), some civilian hunters, and hipster gun fans. Even in those cases the bolt actions would be considered higher end guns because they're niche products. There will never be millions of shitty bolt actions mass produced and issued to millions of angry conscripts unless shit has gone completely sideways and nukes would probably be involved at that point. None of that PR makes any sense, it would have made more sense to remove bolt actions entirely.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Discussion did get the fuck-ugly doesnt-even-look-like-a-gun original sprites changed to the merely bland and kinda meh generic scifi gun sprites that were merged, so its not like dozens of players giving loud detailed extensive feedback that they hate the change did nothing.

Of course the new sprites and lore were merged with no additional commentary or discussion 24 hours after being added to a weeks-old PR that hadnt been active in like a week, but its still something I guess.