terry trialmin meets normal Manuel Rp

[Blacklist897]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Acting cap is informed that the QM refused to attempt to sort let alone deliver mail.
When a baton is stolen and the acting called a retard the QM suffers from Chat shit get shot
Acting gets hit with a command ban that the admin claims is a perma one

the appeal

[AsbestosSniffer]

What I'm saying is that we've got to legalise glue man, it's got other uses that aren't just mind-expanding!

[LEDDDriver]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

[dirk_mcblade]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

I refuse to actively participate in a server named after a community created by a serial wife beater.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Also what a thinly veiled power trip holy fuck. They go into cargo yell at the qm, the qm tells them to fuck off so they ATTACK THE QM?

The irony is palpable. You have no ground to stand on calling out blatant power trips.
You shot a sec officer with lethals as a head of staff over the word "ligger", before the new ruling.
Mutiny is a much better reason to use lethals than that bullshit.

But this wasn't a mutiny. They didn't try to overthrow the captain. They just tossed them out of cargo for being an ass. That's insubordination, not mutiny.

[MooCow12]

QM didnt commit any capital crimes aside from hurting another player`s feelings to such an extent that they grabbed a fucking gun like an edgy teenager.

Not doing a low impact job and resisting arrest isnt mutiny, if the ce was not taking care of the sm and then resisting arrest/kicking out people who tried to fix the sm then sure kill them and dust their body/behead/rr them

But QM just not sending mail to different departments isnt even an issue, people can go to cargo to pick up their mail if they want and just because its fucking meta / cargo has extra tools to send mail to other departments doesn`t mean that all of a sudden responsibility is even more severe.

On the topic of different maps , i dont think policy from admins or balance from c*ders has ever taken specific maps into account (like making certain things weaker/stronger on specific maps)

[Drag]

The argument here is if the word "retard" is considered a slur or not.

Professional mental health organizations, especially those working closely with special needs individuals, have deemed it a slur.

The second question we have to ask is where TG draws the line, we already agree that the n-word shouldn't be said. Why is the word "retard" different if its already classified as a slur?

[AsbestosSniffer]

If I might contribute (which is a rarity, believe me), I believe there is an ongoing feud between both of the players in this situation here. This is not the first time that one of the players in question has called the other player some form of "slow."

Game Logs of a Previous Round

OOC Dr . Oof/(Krisster Fless) "go fuck yourself laura, you are the most annoying mentally defected fuck in this server"

[MooCow12]

If I might contribute (which is a rarity, believe me), I believe there is an ongoing feud between both of the players in this situation here. This is not the first time the player in question has called the other player some form of "slow."

An ongoing grudge between the players does make this more interesting yes.

[kieth4]

Also what a thinly veiled power trip holy fuck. They go into cargo yell at the qm, the qm tells them to fuck off so they ATTACK THE QM?

The irony is palpable. You have no ground to stand on calling out blatant power trips.
You shot a sec officer with lethals as a head of staff over the word "ligger", before the new ruling.
Mutiny is a much better reason to use lethals than that bullshit.

I was the captain. There was a lizard in prison. I told you to stop calling it a ligger or I would shoot you, you did not stop so I escalated on you. You were never murdered just shot at a few times. Not rlly the same is it..

Calling this a mutiny is a huge LOL because they attacked the QM so the qm fought back.

[Timonk]

If I might contribute (which is a rarity, believe me), I believe there is an ongoing feud between both of the players in this situation here. This is not the first time that one of the players in question has called the other player some form of "slow."

Game Logs of a Previous Round

OOC Dr . Oof/(Krisster Fless) "go fuck yourself laura, you are the most annoying mentally defected fuck in this server"

the clot thickens...

[Timonk]

Also what a thinly veiled power trip holy fuck. They go into cargo yell at the qm, the qm tells them to fuck off so they ATTACK THE QM?

The irony is palpable. You have no ground to stand on calling out blatant power trips.
You shot a sec officer with lethals as a head of staff over the word "ligger", before the new ruling.
Mutiny is a much better reason to use lethals than that bullshit.

I was the captain. There was a lizard in prison. I told you to stop calling it a ligger or I would shoot you, you did not stop so I escalated on you. You were never murdered just shot at a few times. Not rlly the same is it..

Calling this a mutiny is a huge LOL because they attacked the QM so the qm fought back.

i was right once again

[Lacran]

The argument here is if the word "retard" is considered a slur or not.

Professional mental health organizations, especially those working closely with special needs individuals, have deemed it a slur.

The second question we have to ask is where TG draws the line, we already agree that the n-word shouldn't be said. Why is the word "retard" different if its already classified as a slur?

Because retard and nigger are wildly different kinds of slurs with distinct differences in application. The fact you say "the n-word" sorta highlights HOW different.

Retard generally is just used to insult someone for a lapse in judgement in a video game setting. It's not to disparage the differently abled in most contexts. When it is, we should punish it.

If a player is using retard as synonymous with dumbass, it's not intended as a slur, unless of course they knew that person had a significant cognitive impairment, in which case dumbass, idiot and stupid could also be slurs.

Also, I think its a pretty fair assumption that the majority of people that play this game are likely neurodivergent or differently abled in some way, I don't really care what the special olympics thinks about the names we call eachother in a 2d video game.

[Archie700]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

This is the point where I have to break character and post about this.

I had talked about this in asay and adminbus while dealing with the ban appeal. Admins, both during and after, had different opinions on the use of the word "retard" as a slur.

Absolutely NONE of them said that in any way that what Laura did was justified.

I am very unhappy with the fact that people right now in this thread are saying they're going to do what Laura did if they were in the same situation. People like this guy:

For what it's worth if I was captain (even acting) and a QM told me off for telling them to do their job I'd ABSOLUTELY give them a nonlethal smack and tell them to get their shit together. If they did what they did to me here I'd have probably dome the same shit as well.

Part of your job when roleplaying command is following said chain of command. He probably could've had security do it, but I'd be 50/50 on just doing it myself in a similar fashion.

I am also very confused by people suddenly saying that saying "retard" automatically makes you valid. Of the "admins" that have "allowed it", only ONE was named, and I had them explain what happened in the ban appeal itself.

As far as I know there is NO ruling on saying "retard" making you instavalid on ANY count. This is the ruling and it does not say "retard = instavalid to kill".

Also I'm going to reveal something, when I talked to the QM, I told them "please try not to use retard as some people consider it a slur to kill over". Which DID in fact happen. I never took offense over the use of the word itself.

There are also some issues that I'm really mad about that I don't want to reveal here for the record. Do not try to comment if you do not know the full story. Do not base your right to valid on hearsay and if an admin told you it was valid, tell us who the admin was and give evidence so that I can contact them.

[ekaterina]

Professional mental health organizations, especially those working closely with special needs individuals, have deemed it a slur.

Who cares about what they say? Our illustrious headmins deemed that it isn't.

I was the captain. There was a lizard in prison. I told you to stop calling it a ligger or I would shoot you, you did not stop so I escalated on you. You were never murdered just shot at a few times. Not rlly the same is it..

I wasn't murdered because I am a robust Terry player. The principle is the same, the robustness of the victim is what differs.

i was right once again

You were objectively wrong, because you said "the sec officer", i.e. the character, had my OOC account name, which she doesn't.
You were right in the sense that I was the player on the other end, yes.

[kieth4]

Professional mental health organizations, especially those working closely with special needs individuals, have deemed it a slur.

Who cares about what they say? Our illustrious headmins deemed that it isn't.

I was the captain. There was a lizard in prison. I told you to stop calling it a ligger or I would shoot you, you did not stop so I escalated on you. You were never murdered just shot at a few times. Not rlly the same is it..

I wasn't murdered because I am a robust Terry player. The principle is the same, the robustness of the victim is what differs.

i was right once again

You were objectively wrong, because you said "the sec officer", i.e. the character, had my OOC account name, which she doesn't.
You were right in the sense that I was the player on the other end, yes.

You robust

[ekaterina]

You robust

You, as HOS, fought with your own security officers to assert dominance (claiming it as the "Terry way" or the like) and ended up being absolutely owned right in front of my eyes, you're not the authority on robustness.

[dirk_mcblade]

The argument here is if the word "retard" is considered a slur or not.

Professional mental health organizations, especially those working closely with special needs individuals, have deemed it a slur.

The second question we have to ask is where TG draws the line, we already agree that the n-word shouldn't be said. Why is the word "retard" different if its already classified as a slur?

Tgstation isn't required to follow the standards of any health organizations. The headmins set the policy.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

It does seem weird to call it a powertrip when the captain slaps the QM for refusing to do something minor, but that it's not power tripping for the HOS to laser an officer for refusing to do something minor.

Declaring a mutiny and killing the QM for being thrown out on your ass is absolutely powertripping however.

[TheLoLSwat]

telling someone working under you to stop saying something or else (and then doing the or else when its said again) is different from killing someone out of the blue for saying something after a legit-ish scuffle.

Reasonably asserting your authority is just being good command, killing one of your most important underlings (one that commands other underlings) over words is not good command

[Timonk]

i was right once again

You were objectively wrong, because you said "the sec officer", i.e. the character, had my OOC account name, which she doesn't.
You were right in the sense that I was the player on the other end, yes.

what did she mean by this

[LEDDDriver]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

This is the point where I have to break character and post about this.

I had talked about this in asay and adminbus while dealing with the ban appeal. Admins, both during and after, had different opinions on the use of the word "retard" as a slur.

Absolutely NONE of them said that in any way that what Laura did was justified.

I am very unhappy with the fact that people right now in this thread are saying they're going to do what Laura did if they were in the same situation. I am also very confused by people suddenly saying that saying "retard" automatically makes you valid. Of the "admins" that have "allowed it", only ONE was named, and I had them explain what happened in the ban appeal itself.

As far as I know there is NO ruling on saying "retard" making you instavalid on ANY count.

Why are you surprised that people twist opinions to fit their narrative? When you have admins telling you that "retard" is on par with the nword and that it should be treated under the rule all the same then, surely, you can see where the confusion begins. "An admin said so, so why should i think of it more?". Strangely, this goes both ways, "This site tells me their (non-legal) opinion therefore it's a definition that i will hold true."

I'd find more value in an argument if one claimed that there should be an extensive blanket ban on words that are offensive (in a similar spirit i can pull up a website and argue that all of the words listed should be banned), at least then you can't argue anymore with takes on the level of"This site says so therefore we should..." or "Why is this banned but this isn't? Some people i know might get offended by this."

At the end of the day you can be bigoted and express hate speech without ever mentioning a single slur. But it's much easier to reduce the cases of bigotry by banning specific words that historically have led to violence and death against groups. Rule 11 specifically mentions "... to intentionally demean others." Unless you know the other person is cognitively impaired and specifically target him for that, it then stops being about the word and falls under harassment. If one would get offended by being called a retard for fucking up the engine, he would, without a doubt, get offended by anything that insults his intelligence; moron, idiot, zero braincell'd individual etc.

It's very clear that the admin team feels torn about rule 11. Maybe you guys need to retrain or perhaps does MSO have to revisit the rule to make it more clear for the people that are not very bright?

If i say "What engine are we building today faggots?", would i get immediately bwoinked and noted? Depends on the admin i guess?

[kayozz]

The way I see it is... Retard as a term is more usually used in America as a slur against idiocy (i.e slightly less offensive). Whereas at least here in the UK it's got a nastier sentiment to it and has connotations around insulting physical/mentally disabled people.
I personally wouldn't be too happy having that word used against me, but because Manuel is an American server, I would just shrug it off as Americans being Americans rather than a nasty attack.

Much in the same way in America calling someone a 'cunt' is considered one of the more harsher insults and has connotations of sexism too, whereas in commonwealth countries like Australia, England etc, it's more of a banter word. Usually used as term of endearment amongst friends.

The joys of language eh?

Retard generally is just used to insult someone for a lapse in judgement in a video game setting. It's not to disparage the differently abled in most contexts. When it is, we should punish it.

I disagree. It really is a localised thing that has varying meanings across the world. See above.

[Boot]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

This is the point where I have to break character and post about this.

I had talked about this in asay and adminbus while dealing with the ban appeal. Admins, both during and after, had different opinions on the use of the word "retard" as a slur.

Absolutely NONE of them said that in any way that what Laura did was justified.

I am very unhappy with the fact that people right now in this thread are saying they're going to do what Laura did if they were in the same situation. I am also very confused by people suddenly saying that saying "retard" automatically makes you valid. Of the "admins" that have "allowed it", only ONE was named, and I had them explain what happened in the ban appeal itself.

As far as I know there is NO ruling on saying "retard" making you instavalid on ANY count.

If i say "What engine are we building today faggots?", would i get immediately bwoinked and noted? Depends on the admin i guess?

I would say no because MSO explicitly used an example like this("What you faggots doing today") as one that would be ok. However due to actions of this headmin term basically just ignoring him to do their own meme instead who knows.

[Archie700]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

This is the point where I have to break character and post about this.

I had talked about this in asay and adminbus while dealing with the ban appeal. Admins, both during and after, had different opinions on the use of the word "retard" as a slur.

Absolutely NONE of them said that in any way that what Laura did was justified.

I am very unhappy with the fact that people right now in this thread are saying they're going to do what Laura did if they were in the same situation. I am also very confused by people suddenly saying that saying "retard" automatically makes you valid. Of the "admins" that have "allowed it", only ONE was named, and I had them explain what happened in the ban appeal itself.

As far as I know there is NO ruling on saying "retard" making you instavalid on ANY count.

Why are you surprised that people twist opinions to fit their narrative? When you have admins telling you that "retard" is on par with the nword and that it should be treated under the rule all the same then, surely, you can see where the confusion begins. "An admin said so, so why should i think of it more?". Strangely, this goes both ways, "This site tells me their (non-legal) opinion therefore it's a definition that i will hold true."

I'd find more value in an argument if one claimed that there should be an extensive blanket ban on words that are offensive (in a similar spirit i can pull up a website and argue that all of the words listed should be banned), at least then you can't argue anymore with takes on the level of"This site says so therefore we should..." or "Why is this banned but this isn't? Some people i know might get offended by this."

At the end of the day you can be bigoted and express hate speech without ever mentioning a single slur. But it's much easier to reduce the cases of bigotry by banning specific words that historically have led to violence and death against groups. Rule 11 specifically mentions "... to intentionally demean others." Unless you know the other person is cognitively impaired and specifically target him for that, it then stops being about the word and falls under harassment. If one would get offended by being called a retard for fucking up the engine, he would, without a doubt, get offended by anything that insults his intelligence; moron, idiot, zero braincell'd individual etc.

It's very clear that the admin team feels torn about rule 11. Maybe you guys need to retrain or perhaps does MSO have to revisit the rule to make it more clear for the people that are not very bright?

If i say "What engine are we building today faggots?", would i get immediately bwoinked and noted? Depends on the admin i guess?

This is exactly why when someone said something to that effect, I said this:

Putting my five cents in here and not replying more to the thread. I was also told in the past that calling someone "retarded" in a targeted way was an instavalid. Exception being if you're calling a situation or non player "retarded".

1. Who told you that and where.
2. What do you mean by "targeted way"

I want to make it clear that no admin should say ""retard" is on par with the n-word and that it should be treated under the rule all the same" in such a way that it can be taken as allowance to violate a ruling set by headmins. The ruling has not changed since mothblocks has announced it.

If you say the f-word, I can assure you that some admin is going to bwoink you at least, because it's soft-filtered. Personally? I really suggest not using it because it's much more defined by its connections to homosexuality than "retard" to intellectually disabled people.

[kieth4]

You robust

You, as HOS, fought with your own security officers to assert dominance (claiming it as the "Terry way" or the like) and ended up being absolutely owned right in front of my eyes, you're not the authority on robustness.

The flarp....seccies fight every shift, someone different wins every shift. You're equating playfighting to robustness??? anyone of those mfs could slap you up with their eyes closed. I asked around and you have a reputation for being unrobust and apparently not very fun to play with (with these people at least) soo....

[dirk_mcblade]

Forget silicon policy I want the next headmins to hammer out retard policy.

[kayozz]

Racial insults = Not fine.
Sexual orientation insults = Not fine.
Insulting people with mental disabilities = fine.

[LEDDDriver]

We are one step closer to becoming Goon. If people, especially admins, put side to side retard and the nword then i can't wait for them to make their (shit) opinions (un)official rulings. Who knows what's next? I don't and i am excited!

"I will fword kill you, you stupid cword! Give me my id back you rword!"

This is the point where I have to break character and post about this.

I had talked about this in asay and adminbus while dealing with the ban appeal. Admins, both during and after, had different opinions on the use of the word "retard" as a slur.

Absolutely NONE of them said that in any way that what Laura did was justified.

I am very unhappy with the fact that people right now in this thread are saying they're going to do what Laura did if they were in the same situation. I am also very confused by people suddenly saying that saying "retard" automatically makes you valid. Of the "admins" that have "allowed it", only ONE was named, and I had them explain what happened in the ban appeal itself.

As far as I know there is NO ruling on saying "retard" making you instavalid on ANY count.

Why are you surprised that people twist opinions to fit their narrative? When you have admins telling you that "retard" is on par with the nword and that it should be treated under the rule all the same then, surely, you can see where the confusion begins. "An admin said so, so why should i think of it more?". Strangely, this goes both ways, "This site tells me their (non-legal) opinion therefore it's a definition that i will hold true."

I'd find more value in an argument if one claimed that there should be an extensive blanket ban on words that are offensive (in a similar spirit i can pull up a website and argue that all of the words listed should be banned), at least then you can't argue anymore with takes on the level of"This site says so therefore we should..." or "Why is this banned but this isn't? Some people i know might get offended by this."

At the end of the day you can be bigoted and express hate speech without ever mentioning a single slur. But it's much easier to reduce the cases of bigotry by banning specific words that historically have led to violence and death against groups. Rule 11 specifically mentions "... to intentionally demean others." Unless you know the other person is cognitively impaired and specifically target him for that, it then stops being about the word and falls under harassment. If one would get offended by being called a retard for fucking up the engine, he would, without a doubt, get offended by anything that insults his intelligence; moron, idiot, zero braincell'd individual etc.

It's very clear that the admin team feels torn about rule 11. Maybe you guys need to retrain or perhaps does MSO have to revisit the rule to make it more clear for the people that are not very bright?

If i say "What engine are we building today faggots?", would i get immediately bwoinked and noted? Depends on the admin i guess?

This is exactly why when someone said something to that effect, I said this:

Putting my five cents in here and not replying more to the thread. I was also told in the past that calling someone "retarded" in a targeted way was an instavalid. Exception being if you're calling a situation or non player "retarded".

1. Who told you that and where.
2. What do you mean by "targeted way"

If you say the f-word, I can assure you that some admin is going to bwoink you at least, because it's soft-filtered. Personally? I really suggest not using it because it's much more defined by its connections to homosexuality than "retard" to intellectually disabled people.

And how would the ahelp on part of the admin side look like? Because by definition of rule 11 you can say slurs that are not used in a bigoted context;

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".

"What engine are we building today faggots?" is a statement made to be bigoted because...?

"Well, ok, if you say it 1 time then you are not going to get in trouble." Is probably a rational answer to this? Then is word-count, ie how many times you said stuff like that in a round, a good metric for bigotry?

I am getting more convinced that MSO needs to revisit rule 11 now

[dirk_mcblade]

Racial insults = Not fine.
Sexual orientation insults = Not fine.
Insulting people with mental disabilities = fine.

Everyone who plays ss13 arguably has a mental disability so it's fine.

[LEDDDriver]

Racial insults = Not fine.
Sexual orientation insults = Not fine.
Insulting people with mental disabilities = fine.

Generalize it;

"Insults=not fine. We are here to have a good time and enjoy ourselves and not getting called bad words by random people."

[Kendrickorium]

lol this thread is stupid god i miss sinful

[Archie700]

And how would the ahelp on part of the admin side look like? Because by definition of rule 11 you can say slurs that are not used in a bigoted context;

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".

"What engine are we building today faggots?" is a statement made to be bigoted because...?

"Well, ok, if you say it 1 time then you are not going to get in trouble." Is probably a rational answer to this? Then is word-count, ie how many times you said stuff like that in a round, a good metric for bigotry?

I am getting more convinced that MSO needs to revisit rule 11 now

The reason why I personally feel the f-word is less safe is because the use of it in your example was due to the 4chan influence that newer players and admins do not know about. And many of them have only heard of it being used in a bigoted context, whether from their own experience or others.

It is much easier to explain why the r-word is acceptable, because everyone relates to it being used to call a person an idiot for doing a stupid thing.

You are very correct in that that is how it should be applied, we usually use the ahelp to tell them to be careful with usage unless it's spammed or used derogatory.

And you do not want MSO to revisit rule 11. Part of the reason Rule 11 is so messy is because headmins had to fight with MSO on phrasing of Rule 11 to begin with.

[Fikou]

Racial insults = Not fine.
Sexual orientation insults = Not fine.
Insulting people with mental disabilities = fine.

youre insulting someone by calling them stupid (this is a case across your idiots, morons, etc too) which is like, the r word relates to being mentally disabled. its a harsh descriptor but thats kinda what the word means, the only way it differs from others is that it was used as a medical term

if i call someone stupid the n word im associating negative traits like stupidity with being black which is bigoted
they are not on the same level

[ekaterina]

The flarp....seccies fight every shift, someone different wins every shift. You're equating playfighting to robustness??? anyone of those mfs could slap you up with their eyes closed. I asked around and you have a reputation for being unrobust and apparently not very fun to play with (with these people at least) soo....

lmao that is a blatant fabrication and I have an affidavit from sinfulbliss, the man himself, attesting to the contrary.
Also I am clearly more robust than you. I have never been banned for suboptimal plays like you have, which obviously means all my plays are optimal

[kayozz]

It is much easier to explain why the r-word is acceptable, because everyone relates to it being used to call a person an idiot for doing a stupid thing.

You'd be sacked in the UK if you used that word in a workplace, as I explained above it has different connotations to how Americans use it. Over here it's a nasty insult that belittles people with mental difficulties.
So no it's not acceptable everywhere.

if i call someone stupid the n word im associating negative traits like stupidity with being black which is bigoted
they are not on the same level

Let's agree to disagree here. I'd argue they're equally bigoted terms.
A lot of you are clearly generalising that the world only exists on America's terms, because it's fine in America you seem to think it's fine elsewhere.

All I'm saying is... Just because you've been socially conditioned to think it's fine, it doesn't mean it's fine everywhere. The R word is a bigoted term against mentally disabled people.
Anyway, I've made my point. Just something to think about.

[Fikou]

im in europe (talk about generalizing)

[kayozz]

im in europe (talk about generalizing)

Manuel is an American server. Or do you think I was solely addressing you?

[LEDDDriver]

And how would the ahelp on part of the admin side look like? Because by definition of rule 11 you can say slurs that are not used in a bigoted context;

This means rather than warning or banning for quoting a usage such as "Griff McNazi got banned for calling somebody a faggot" or even things like "nigga pls" and "what are you faggots playing" which are generally not statements made to be bigoted, we'll focus more on statements like "you talk like a [insert stereotype]" or "x is a [insert slur]".

"What engine are we building today faggots?" is a statement made to be bigoted because...?

"Well, ok, if you say it 1 time then you are not going to get in trouble." Is probably a rational answer to this? Then is word-count, ie how many times you said stuff like that in a round, a good metric for bigotry?

I am getting more convinced that MSO needs to revisit rule 11 now

The reason why I personally feel the f-word is less safe is because the use of it in your example was due to the 4chan influence that newer players and admins do not know about. And many of them have only heard of it being used in a bigoted context, whether from their own experience or others.

It is much easier to explain why the r-word is acceptable, because everyone relates to it being used to call a person an idiot for doing a stupid thing.

You are very correct in that that is how it should be applied, we usually use the ahelp to tell them to be careful with usage unless it's spammed or used derogatory.

And you do not want MSO to revisit rule 11. Part of the reason Rule 11 is so messy is because headmins had to fight with MSO on phrasing of Rule 11 to begin with.

If an admin that's there to enforce rules cannot discern bigoted expressions from non-bigoted ones then he/she/it has no place in that position to begin with. I think it's clear by now that unless we can generally agree upon on what words are considered bigotry regardless of context -to blanket them under rule 11/headming rulings- then this topic will always generate controversy. It still seems apparent to me that a lot of admins think that slurs=bigotry but rule 11 by definition makes a clear distinction on this matter. This is even more apparent when the playerbase consists of people from all around the world; some have already said that cunt is used regularly in AUS, while others find it -in US, i assume- incredibly offensive. My opinion on this hardly matters, but i am interested in knowing in what lengths can someone argue over a word to ban you. For an admin to make a leap as big as "Retard=nword, treat it the same." is incredibly disturbing because a subjective opinion is taken as a fact to enforce a rule in the wrong spirit.

[Timonk]

we are all retards so it is not a slur

[conrad]

You'd be sacked in the UK if you used that word in a workplace, as I explained above it has different connotations to how Americans use it.

lmao this isn't a workplace this is the gas sim shitposting subforum

[zergking]

Also what a thinly veiled power trip holy fuck. They go into cargo yell at the qm, the qm tells them to fuck off so they ATTACK THE QM?

The irony is palpable. You have no ground to stand on calling out blatant power trips.
You shot a sec officer with lethals as a head of staff over the word "ligger", before the new ruling.
Mutiny is a much better reason to use lethals than that bullshit.

Honestly this just makes him seem more based

[Donglesplonge]

this is all solved by paying the admins to gibsmite people you don't like

[Dax Dupont]

It is much easier to explain why the r-word is acceptable, because everyone relates to it being used to call a person an idiot for doing a stupid thing.

You'd be sacked in the UK if you used that word in a workplace, as I explained above it has different connotations to how Americans use it. Over here it's a nasty insult that belittles people with mental difficulties.
So no it's not acceptable everywhere.

if i call someone stupid the n word im associating negative traits like stupidity with being black which is bigoted
they are not on the same level

Let's agree to disagree here. I'd argue they're equally bigoted terms.
A lot of you are clearly generalising that the world only exists on America's terms, because it's fine in America you seem to think it's fine elsewhere.

All I'm saying is... Just because you've been socially conditioned to think it's fine, it doesn't mean it's fine everywhere. The R word is a bigoted term against mentally disabled people.
Anyway, I've made my point. Just something to think about.

We'll the UK is a dystopia when it comes to it comes to words that hurt someone's feeling.

Over here in Belgium, we have worse words we use during the workday and I work in an office.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

The argument here is if the word "retard" is considered a slur or not.

Professional mental health organizations, especially those working closely with special needs individuals, have deemed it a slur.

The second question we have to ask is where TG draws the line, we already agree that the n-word shouldn't be said. Why is the word "retard" different if its already classified as a slur?

Ignoring the point of "They are absolutely not the same because you wrote out 'retard' and shortened the other to 'n-word'" because someone else already made it;

The point is that retard has seen such colloquial use that it's completely divorced from where it started. What're the actual differences between "retard" and "moron" "idiot" "stupid" "dumbass"? All of them are still calling someone slow, but one of them we just decide is off-limits?

Let's compare that to the n-word. It's generally considered the worst of its bunch, but other words like coon or negro are still generally considered off-limits to call someone, doubly so if as an insult.

It's why there's no smart way to rule on it flatly. Let people say retard, as long as they aren't using it to target someone who actually has a mental disability, for said disability. If someone's not comfy with being called that, they can say it, and then if the person continues it falls under Rule 1.

[conrad]

this is all solved by paying the admins to gibsmite people you don't like

[MooCow12]

retard being a slur or not isnt even relevant.

Anything can be turned into or considered to be a slur and used in a hurtful way, the word just has to be catchy enough to be mainstream (usually two syllables)

what matters is if current rules/policy already cares about that particular word being used.

[Archie700]

If an admin that's there to enforce rules cannot discern bigoted expressions from non-bigoted ones then he/she/it has no place in that position to begin with. I think it's clear by now that unless we can generally agree upon on what words are considered bigotry regardless of context -to blanket them under rule 11/headming rulings- then this topic will always generate controversy. It still seems apparent to me that a lot of admins think that slurs=bigotry but rule 11 by definition makes a clear distinction on this matter. This is even more apparent when the playerbase consists of people from all around the world; some have already said that cunt is used regularly in AUS, while others find it -in US, i assume- incredibly offensive. My opinion on this hardly matters, but i am interested in knowing in what lengths can someone argue over a word to ban you. For an admin to make a leap as big as "Retard=nword, treat it the same." is incredibly disturbing because a subjective opinion is taken as a fact to enforce a rule in the wrong spirit.

Blanketing is very difficult, nay, almost impossible, especially when you have MSO around to argue. Even the n-word isn't technically banned despite the fact it's a ethnic slur mostly used against black people. The headmins had to make compromises in order to get to the rule 11 we have now. It's also due to admins having different cultures that this rule is like that. This is exactly why I brought it up in asay and admin-bus - to get different takes before acting. All of them said that the CMO was wrong to shoot down the QM, despite their differences in opinion.

If you feel that an expression is not bigoted, that's where the appeals come in. I don't know what lengths can people argue that "retard" is the same as the n-word, or how it leads to a ban, or how it makes someone instavalid, because I have never heard it from admins, and I have no idea where people are taking it from, which is why I'm asking them who told them.

To make this clear: The reason why we don't have blanket bans and why rule 11 is the way it is was because MSO was outright against them and the headmins had to reach a compromise on the matter.

[Blacklist897]

You robust

You, as HOS, fought with your own security officers to assert dominance (claiming it as the "Terry way" or the like) and ended up being absolutely owned right in front of my eyes, you're not the authority on robustness.

We all know that Manny sec mains like jeff gaming are the most robust sec players

[dendydoom]

i'm so tired of the slur discourse bros. every week we argue in circles around this shit.

no admin who discussed this ruling at the time (and there were a lot) agreed that the acting captain was in the right to grab a makarov and wordlessly riddle the QM with bullets because they called them a retard in response to being assaulted. rule 11 asks that we consider the nuance and context of a situation instead of applying blanket bans the moment we see a bad word being used. we do that anyway. in fact, i can't think of any situation where i'm not investigating the context and nuance of a situation to try and figure it out: it's part of the due diligence to collect all of that information before you make a ruling on anything.

this is as cut and dry as it gets with rules. on mrp command are held to a higher standard and the captain of all people shouldn't be gunning people down for minor insubordination after the captain instigated it by physically assaulting one of their heads of staff. the station was not in a life-or-death martial law scenario. they were arguing over *the mail.*

and here's an extra little treat for you:

[2023-08-15 19:08:36.440] GAME-SAY: Thranos/(Laura Winters) "THIS RETARD" (Central Primary Hallway (113,143,4))
[2023-08-16 08:22:13.148] GAME-SAY: Thranos/(Lingden Wilkerson) (DEAD) "I DID RETARD" (First Floor Fore Hallway (74,126,2))

wonder how they would feel if they were gunned down over this? would they ahelp it and want the other person banned? the second instance was in dchat, so it's not like they were roleplaying their character calling someone that. they were calling a player a retard directly.

this is the most standard dayban for improperly killing someone i've ever seen. cool off for a day and then come back less assmad, for your own sake. it's not good for you.

[RedBaronFlyer]

I’m super hesitant about adding more words to the forbidden word list because I’ve seen it slippery slope itself into absurdity multiple times in multiple communities over the decade I’ve been active online.

[TypicalRig]

And people say Manuel isn't like our other servers.

It's an MRP Terry.

I've been telling people this for ages. Just OBSERVE how quickly they'll ignore their own stay in their lane rules to desperately swarm over a valid and it shows enough.