Former president Donald Trump imprisoned over sharing screenshots of nuclear disks over social media platform Discord

[iwishforducks]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34876

https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/publicbans.php

edit: new appeal viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34908

[Constellado]

The rest of the allegations though? I don't know I'll leave that to the rest of ya. My bet is chesh was the only admin doing the investigation willing to log on the game and do the bannings. But I would not know. My maliciousness sensors are not alarming here. Yet.

I was on with Chesh at the same time, they went from the top of the list (permabanned people) while i went from the bottom (noted people). Having 10 admins ban people would get very confusing and there would certainly be errors, I don't get why people are being so weird over who did the deed? The investigation was a group effort by several people.

I think its the combination of the fact that xpokee was a headmin candidate, cheshify elected to headmin and the fact that it seems that they have interacted a lot with each other in the past.
People love crafting their own little consipracy theories! Especially in the players club. This place is a breeding ground for those.




Oh the fuck i hIt enter and it submitted before i finished the heck.

[carshalash]

All of the headmin candidates of the next term have been receptive and open to discussing what happened. All 3 were sympathetic to a lot of the things that happened and all screenshots/logs were shared involving the bans.

My main concern at the moment is what happens with skye. I'm too tired and burned to do much involving myself at the moment.

[AsbestosSniffer]

The deleted posts/bans were one guy comparing metacommers with a serial killer and another one was stirring shit on a big cauldron like baba yaga by doing nothing but being an insulting, insuferable twat.

Comparing a banned player to a serial killer is acting like a twat, not reacting to it poorly. And you've been particularly insufferable in this thread too, what with your constant nothing posts. Leave it to people like TBM who actually knows how to talk please.

[Constellado]

13thsky absolutely shared some things that revealed round information such as their location, status, as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

...Sorry... What?
What?
Why did this info not come out sooner? I am very confused. Was this said earlier?
Why was it not said earlier if it was not? This is very important info right?

[TheBibleMelts]

13thsky absolutely shared some things that revealed round information such as their location, status, as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

...Sorry... What?
What?
Why did this info not come out sooner? I am very confused. Was this said earlier?
Why was it not said earlier if it was not? This is very important info right?

probably because everybody was getting too hotheaded at one another to give one another time to think.

[conrad]

The deleted posts/bans were one guy comparing metacommers with a serial killer and another one was stirring shit on a big cauldron like baba yaga by doing nothing but being an insulting, insuferable twat.

Comparing a banned player to a serial killer is acting like a twat, not reacting to it poorly. And you've been particularly insufferable in this thread too, what with your constant nothing posts.

You misunderstood what I said. There were deleted posts. One of those posts was reported, the rest was a chain of replies. Said post was a dude comparing metacommers to serial killers.

The other did nothing but act like a twat and got banned.

This is adding tails to donkeys.

Leave it to people like TBM who actually knows how to talk please.

lol

[AsbestosSniffer]

13thsky absolutely shared some things that revealed round information such as their location, status, as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

...Sorry... What?
What?
Why did this info not come out sooner? I am very confused. Was this said earlier?
Why was it not said earlier if it was not? This is very important info right?

probably because everybody was getting too hotheaded at one another to give one another time to think.

Why were these posts not used as examples instead of relatively innocuous ones? Surely not all of them would've revealed something too explicit that they couldn't be shown.

[Fikou]

Why were these posts not used as examples instead of relatively innocuous ones? Surely not all of them would've revealed something too explicit that they couldn't be shown.

deleted discord message

[RedBaronFlyer]

I think its the combination of the fact that xpokee was a headmin candidate, cheshify elected to headmin and the fact that it seems that they have interacted a lot with each other in the past.
People love crafting their own little consipracy theories! Especially in the players club. This place is a breeding ground for those.

13thsky absolutely shared some things that revealed round information such as their location, status, as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

...Sorry... What?
What?
Why did this info not come out sooner? I am very confused. Was this said earlier?
Why was it not said earlier if it was not? This is very important info right?

This whole thing has been a clusterfuck in terms of discerning what the fuck is going on. All I know is that some people metacommed in a server. Some people got noted, some people got perma-d, one person got perma-d for a metacomm over a year and a half ago.

I don't think players have to know everything going on but at the same time any gaps are going to be filled in by guesswork, and it's the internet, so of course, people are going to assume the worst. It's likely that we're only going to get little bits of info over the course of months to the point that it's impossible to discern what happened, what might have happened, and stuff people literally made up. We'll only get information as admins divulge it, people from the server talk about it, and as ban appeals are made.

[AsbestosSniffer]

Why were these posts not used as examples instead of relatively innocuous ones? Surely not all of them would've revealed something too explicit that they couldn't be shown.

deleted discord message

That was just one example apparently, there were other examples, were they all deleted?

[Pepper]

and that very issue is being actively discussed and assessed as this thread lives and breathes. 13thsky absolutely shared some things that revealed round information such as their location, status, as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it. many of the permabans existed because around that same time, other people in the group were grilled about just this thing potentially happening, but they denied it was.

if you lie to administration about not doing a certain thing and it's revealed that you were, in fact, doing it, the explosion is more likely to widen to affect other people who were only 'doing it a little' due to the absolute death of good faith that the administration is now forced to deal with regarding anybody caught in the blast.

On page one of this thread I asked this:

was there evidence showing that they used out of game communication to gain an in round benefit, or were they permabanned purely on the merit of posting while a round was still ongoing, no matter how innocuous or useless that post may have been?

Instead of a clear 'yes' or 'no', I was given a roundabout answer that seemed to completely gloss over the individual nature of this appeal/peanut.

There are cases we've seen that are pretty clear usages of meta-info to gain in-round advantages.

Rule 2 is probably the simplest rule to follow, and the most punishing towards server enjoyment if it isn't enforced. The fact that there was metacomms by multiple players over the course of months, all in a separate special discord is a major issue, and we cannot take breaches like this lightly in the slightest. Breaches of rule 2 very quickly tend to snowball into people seeing round info, deciding that since they're good players and won't be using it harmfully (totally /s) that it's ok to post a little more.

We did however, as Fikou mentioned, not lay blanket bans on the entire community. Everything is proportional to information we found in the investigation.

Given the fact that there was no indication in this reply that there was any further evidence of metacomming on sky13th specifically, it's fair to conclude that the answer was 'no', and that everything posted in the appeal was all the admin team had as far as rulebreaking material.

So WHY THE FUCK:

as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

are we only hearing about this SIX pages into this thread? this is VERY important, relevant information.

[Blacklist897]

[TheBibleMelts]

and that very issue is being actively discussed and assessed as this thread lives and breathes. 13thsky absolutely shared some things that revealed round information such as their location, status, as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it. many of the permabans existed because around that same time, other people in the group were grilled about just this thing potentially happening, but they denied it was.

if you lie to administration about not doing a certain thing and it's revealed that you were, in fact, doing it, the explosion is more likely to widen to affect other people who were only 'doing it a little' due to the absolute death of good faith that the administration is now forced to deal with regarding anybody caught in the blast.

On page one of this thread I asked this:

was there evidence showing that they used out of game communication to gain an in round benefit, or were they permabanned purely on the merit of posting while a round was still ongoing, no matter how innocuous or useless that post may have been?

Instead of a clear 'yes' or 'no', I was given a roundabout answer that seemed to completely gloss over the individual nature of this appeal/peanut.

There are cases we've seen that are pretty clear usages of meta-info to gain in-round advantages.

Rule 2 is probably the simplest rule to follow, and the most punishing towards server enjoyment if it isn't enforced. The fact that there was metacomms by multiple players over the course of months, all in a separate special discord is a major issue, and we cannot take breaches like this lightly in the slightest. Breaches of rule 2 very quickly tend to snowball into people seeing round info, deciding that since they're good players and won't be using it harmfully (totally /s) that it's ok to post a little more.

We did however, as Fikou mentioned, not lay blanket bans on the entire community. Everything is proportional to information we found in the investigation.

Given the fact that there was no indication in this reply that there was any further evidence of metacomming on sky13th specifically, it's fair to conclude that the answer was 'no', and that everything posted in the appeal was all the admin team had as far as rulebreaking material.

So WHY THE FUCK:

as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

are we only hearing about this SIX pages into this thread? this is VERY important, relevant information.

if i had to guess it'd be that we're pretty new at being given extremely sensitive information and have been trying to play it safe with what we feel might get us in trouble for being considered a leak. what i posted above was probably borderline, but as the saying goes

[SapphoQueer]

Why were these posts not used as examples instead of relatively innocuous ones? Surely not all of them would've revealed something too explicit that they couldn't be shown.

deleted discord message

That was just one example apparently, there were other examples, were they all deleted?

Even if that's the case, a repeated history of deleted messages within logs with "hey you're overdoing it" is on its own also evidence to some extent.

[NoxVS]

So WHY THE FUCK:

as well as some concerning black holes in the logs we received where other people in their group even called them out for overdoing it - IE a clearly deleted discord message surrounded by people reacting to it.

are we only hearing about this SIX pages into this thread? this is VERY important, relevant information.

I feel like we are forgetting that this is a random peanut thread populated almost entirely by people who have nothing to do with the actual appeal

[dendydoom]

on page 1 cheshify said the appeal was reopened it might have something to do with the fact that it's information that took multiple people half a week to go through involving almost 20 players it might be a little difficult to retain an indexed reference of every incident regarding every person and it's going to take time to go through again to double check everything for this 1 specific player

this thread was always going to be a wasteland because people need to get it out of their systems. it is not a good situation. cool people were involved. it's upsetting and it's fine that people want to voice their concerns. but can we chill now?

[dendydoom]

can we take a moment to remember when kendrick couldn't figure out how to embed youtube videos? this thread had some good moments

[Pepper]

I feel like we are forgetting that this is a random peanut thread populated almost entirely by people who have nothing to do with the actual appeal

Jannies spent the last 6 pages of this thread giving me the slackjawed fluoride stare while simultaniously refusing to divulge information that makes this ban begin to make any kind of sense.

Literal Walmart worker tier behavior. I heard the DMV is hiring, guys.

[Sightld2]

Jannies spent the last 6 pages of this thread giving me the slackjawed fluoride stare while simultaniously refusing to divulge information that makes this ban begin to make any kind of sense.

Literal Walmart worker tier behavior. I heard the DMV is hiring, guys.

Please. You have honest good points, but they are lost and detracted from when you jump to hurling insults the next line.

[AsbestosSniffer]

Jannies spent the last 6 pages of this thread giving me the slackjawed fluoride stare while simultaniously refusing to divulge information that makes this ban begin to make any kind of sense.

Literal Walmart worker tier behavior. I heard the DMV is hiring, guys.

Please. You have honest good points, but they are lost and detracted from when you jump to hurling insults the next line.

Like the admins in this thread calling people dipshits? Conspiracy nuts? Twats? Had this information been divulged earlier this thread would've been a lot more civil. But no, instead the consensus is to shitpost about another video game while leaving answers ambigious.

[Pepper]

Please. You have honest good points, but they are lost and detracted from when you jump to hurling insults the next line.

You should know well as anyone how it feels to have your time wasted because someone involved has a significant lack of communication ability.

[TheBibleMelts]

guys check the appeal thread

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[Sightld2]

Like the admins in this thread calling people dipshits? Conspiracy nuts? Twats? Had this information been divulged earlier this thread would've been a lot more civil. But no, instead the consensus is to shitpost about a video game.

Timberpoes isn't trying to convince anyone of anything. He isn't trying to change anyone's minds. He isn't appealing to anyone.

If you want your criticism to be heard, sticking it with "You're insane" is not helpful.

And it bothers me, because I agree with you, but you're pushing us backwards.

[Sightld2]

Update: Calling this one a Major W

[Pepper]

LOCK THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOCK THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AsbestosSniffer]

Like the admins in this thread calling people dipshits? Conspiracy nuts? Twats? Had this information been divulged earlier this thread would've been a lot more civil. But no, instead the consensus is to shitpost about a video game.

If you want your criticism to be heard, sticking it with "You're insane" is not helpful.

And it bothers me, because I agree with you, but you're pushing us backwards.

You know as well as I that admins are held to a certain standard and that standard has long been trod upon. What with Conrad harping on about how a player is a "twat" and then trying to help divert the thread with Starsector. To Timberpoes' double-standards to the ambiguous answers that players are getting. Can you understand why I'm infuriated? Why I'm rambling like a crazy person? Because we could've had a relatively nice thread with the answer being explained nice and simply that, yes, they did use metacomms to gain an ingame advantage and that, yes, there were more egregious examples. But as I said, why do that? You can just leave it hanging in the air and give a half-arsed answer.

[Archie700]

I would like to remind everyone that Kieth and Timberpoes were both popular player vote candidates and you wanted them to speak for the playerbase.

Well, you got them.

[iwishforducks]

LOCK THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOCK THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP THE COUNT

[Timonk]

Lock the thread

[iwishforducks]

the thread will lock when people stop posting my good sir

[conrad]

What with Conrad harping on about how a player is a "twat" and then trying to help divert the thread with Starsector.

For the third time, someone mentioned a three day ban. That three day ban was a user agressively hurling insults at other people and doing nothing else.

I call that a twat. You can call me a twat for the thread derailment as well if you want, I won't get sad or anything.

I'm the one feeling like a crazy person when providing transparency of what I know without breaking admin conduct and then getting yelled at for it.

[iwishforducks]

anyhow, i think i should be happy with the outcome? but im not really? hard exactly to piece together my distaste but the reasoning for it being reduced down to a month is "we got vouches from admins that say ur good. this is also an issue about metagangs btw." seems tone deaf at best. but i guess if the other line of reasoning is "we permaban for space cat picture" then i guess all is well

[AsbestosSniffer]

What with Conrad harping on about how a player is a "twat" and then trying to help divert the thread with Starsector.

For the third time, someone mentioned a three day ban. That three day ban was a user agressively hurling insults at other people and doing nothing else.

I call that a twat. You can call me a twat for the thread derailment as well if you want, I won't get sad or anything.

Except you're not just a twat but a liar too, the person in question WAS posting other things, and certainly things more useful and relevant than you and your starsector, you should've stayed out of the thread and left it alone.

[TheBibleMelts]

anyhow, i think i should be happy with the outcome? but im not really? hard exactly to piece together my distaste but the reasoning for it being reduced down to a month is "we got vouches from admins that say ur good. this is also an issue about metagangs btw." seems tone deaf at best. but i guess if the other line of reasoning is "we permaban for space cat picture" then i guess all is well

it's a lot more of 'they were a new player when they started it and got swept up into a community which normalized these things before they could be influenced otherwise' being taken into consideration, at least from my side.

[iwishforducks]

anyhow, i think i should be happy with the outcome? but im not really? hard exactly to piece together my distaste but the reasoning for it being reduced down to a month is "we got vouches from admins that say ur good. this is also an issue about metagangs btw." seems tone deaf at best. but i guess if the other line of reasoning is "we permaban for space cat picture" then i guess all is well

it's a lot more of 'they were a new player when they started it and got swept up into a community which normalized these things before they could be influenced otherwise' being taken into consideration, at least from my side.

i figured there was dissenting opinions into the final conjured up response, which i guess is where most of my distaste of it comes from? i dont know why [them being a new player at the time] couldn't have been deliberated in the final response.

[TheBibleMelts]

anyhow, i think i should be happy with the outcome? but im not really? hard exactly to piece together my distaste but the reasoning for it being reduced down to a month is "we got vouches from admins that say ur good. this is also an issue about metagangs btw." seems tone deaf at best. but i guess if the other line of reasoning is "we permaban for space cat picture" then i guess all is well

it's a lot more of 'they were a new player when they started it and got swept up into a community which normalized these things before they could be influenced otherwise' being taken into consideration, at least from my side.

i figured there was dissenting opinions into the final conjured up response, which i guess is where most of my distaste of it comes from? i dont know why [them being a new player at the time] couldn't have been deliberated in the final response.

the closest thing that exists to a final response in terms of bans on this server is the blacklist, everything else is malleable. (sometimes even the blacklist but saying that makes this statement hold less weight so shhh)

[datorangebottle]

I feel like I suffered brain damage just catching up with this thread.
Anyway, it seems like these bans were a long time coming. Zero tolerance for metacomming. There is no way to place the line where sky wouldn't have been hit with some kind of punishment.
Were some of them more severe than they should've been? Perhaps. Did they need to exist in the first place? Yes.
There is no statute of limitations on metacomms.

Then again, I come from the perspective that there shouldn't be separate discord servers- we already have the official one. Use it.
Blow up the big individual server discord(s) next. Admins shouldn't need to be wasting their time checking in on the manuel/sybil/terry/whatever discord server to make sure that people are following the basic rules of the game.

[Riggle]

!	Message from: Riggle
	Please be nice to eachother! There's more to people than just text on your screen, believe it or not they're living, breathing human beings too!

[Constellado]

Then again, I come from the perspective that there shouldn't be separate discord servers- we already have the official one. Use it.
Blow up the big individual server discord(s) next. Admins shouldn't need to be wasting their time checking in on the manuel/sybil/terry/whatever discord server to make sure that people are following the basic rules of the game.

If so I will lose all the wonderful lore threads in manuel and that will make me sad!
Gotta somehow port them over to the TG discord. Then yeah I'll happily post there

[Donglesplonge]

always keep in mind that while players club can take a toll on your mental health regardless of whether or not you're a player, admin, coder, spriter, god knows what




you could be playing league of legends right now and having an even worse time

[NoxVS]

Then again, I come from the perspective that there shouldn't be separate discord servers- we already have the official one. Use it.
Blow up the big individual server discord(s) next. Admins shouldn't need to be wasting their time checking in on the manuel/sybil/terry/whatever discord server to make sure that people are following the basic rules of the game.

We lost the ability to have that when the mrp specific channel on the main discord got sabotaged. People actually interested in mrp were unable to use it so they made their own discord and now it’s too late to drag them back

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Glad to see reasonable clemency given.

Admeme team was open minded and reasonable. Good job admeme team.

[datorangebottle]

We lost the ability to have that when the mrp specific channel on the main discord got sabotaged. People actually interested in mrp were unable to use it so they made their own discord and now it’s too late to drag them back

I'm missing some context here, but I don't think it's ever too late for something like that.

[Thunder11]

We lost the ability to have that when the mrp specific channel on the main discord got sabotaged. People actually interested in mrp were unable to use it so they made their own discord and now it’s too late to drag them back

I'm missing some context here, but I don't think it's ever too late for something like that.

Moderate Rat Posting general

[Cheshify]

What I do appreciate is those willing to be patient and cooperate with the team as we go through everything. We're walking a fine line of keeping private information private and being transparent enough for the community at large to understand why these bans were placed. TBM has made a lot of good posts, as well as Fikou.

This was not a simple affair where we were given information once and we acted on it, but a culmination of just under a year of 'internal discussion and investigation' being capped off by the information you see in the logs being given to the admin team. I have long personally vouched for all players involved as they were seemingly not harmful, and I saw plenty of their good faith play with manuel's community. It was a shock when I was presented with the facts.

Breaking the headmin character here, this fucking sucks. This was a betrayal towards the community by people who were really fun, and I wish that any of them had just come forward with this or just moderated themselves. Thanks to those willing to hear us out and be patient as context comes out, this can't be easy on you either.

[LEDDDriver]

We've given a lot of internal discussion to 13thsky in particular and, receiving vouches of character from several sources that we hold in good faith and were in no way involved in the discord or 'catgang' itself. With these discussions, we as a headmin team have decided that a month ban is more fitting, which is in line with typical final warning punishments.

Step 1) Be a "well liked static that everyone enjoys".
Step 2) Break the rules.
Step 3) Receive a slap on the wrist "because he is so adorable and a good sport and he has so many vouchers from servers!!! "

Insane.

[Archie700]

We've given a lot of internal discussion to 13thsky in particular and, receiving vouches of character from several sources that we hold in good faith and were in no way involved in the discord or 'catgang' itself. With these discussions, we as a headmin team have decided that a month ban is more fitting, which is in line with typical final warning punishments.

Step 1) Be a "well liked static that everyone enjoys".
Step 2) Break the rules.
Step 3) Receive a slap on the wrist "because he is so adorable and a good sport and he has so many vouchers from servers!!! "

Insane.

A 1 month ban is a slap on the wrist.

[Cheshify]

Step 1) Be a "well liked static that everyone enjoys".
Step 2) Break the rules.
Step 3) Receive a slap on the wrist "because he is so adorable and a good sport and he has so many vouchers from servers!!! "
Insane.

To be clear, this month ban isn't a slap on the wrist, but as we said it is "in line with typical final warning punishments."

[Kendrickorium]

This thread just woke up from its Starsector-induced nap. I can't wait to see where this goes.

I think XIV is best tech, and high tech is overrated by people who spam paragons and use the

Spoiler:

ziggurat

as a crutch to get around the fact that high-tech weapons are mostly shit and have to use missiles as a crutch to actually do shield damage.

Don't @ me any high tech fan fanboys. I bet you high-tech fans main silicon in SS13, you filthy borg lovers. By Ludd, I should smite all AI lovers with an IED antimatter fuel tanker for their insolence.

we were friends again until you mentioned Ludd

[Not-Dorsidarf]

We've given a lot of internal discussion to 13thsky in particular and, receiving vouches of character from several sources that we hold in good faith and were in no way involved in the discord or 'catgang' itself. With these discussions, we as a headmin team have decided that a month ban is more fitting, which is in line with typical final warning punishments.

Step 1) Be a "well liked static that everyone enjoys".
Step 2) Break the rules.
Step 3) Receive a slap on the wrist "because he is so adorable and a good sport and he has so many vouchers from servers!!! "

Insane.

The players in question are also now going to permanently on the "Known metacommer" radar of admins, they're not gonna need a year of investigation if it starts up again.
Also permas get reduced or even removed all the time on the basis of as little as "sorry " this isnt that unusual an outcome.

[Kendrickorium]

Don't wanna ruin your fanfiction but, Pepper isn't in either the Manuelcord, or the formerly nuked discord.

Great. Prove they're not in some other discord metacomming.

I'm an open book. Here's every discord server I'm in. I'll also break down every single one.
- skyrat (i have zero messages in this server)
- boatbomber discord (public server)
- blackpantslegion aux (everyone in here is 40 and talks about battletech)
- corporate mercs discord (public server)
- tgstation (nefarious metaclique)
- an abandoned server that has had zero posts in it since 2018


Ok, dirk! your turn!

HOW DO YOU GET INTO THE FUCKING AUX