it's so joever for manuel sec

[Bmon]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34934

ngl dont think MRP sec should murderizing the clown for eating all the vax pills

[Striders13]

permaban the clown under rule 10 for being a bitch and complaining after getting shot for griefing

[dallas]

damn it wasnt even 10 mins til the peanut was made

edit: killing someone over spreading a virus and getting rid of the vax is completely justified i hate viruses too

[EmpressMaia]

Jeff gaiman moment. Dude plays sec like cod

[TheBibleMelts]

[Jackraxxus]

permaban the clown under rule 10 for being a bitch and complaining after getting shot for griefing

Relevant headmin ruling:

If you perform an action which has zero benefit to you other than making others upset (like killing Ian) I will ban you if you adminhelp when someone kills you.

[ekaterina]

Releasing viruses is a capital crime, the clown fucked around and found out.
The nuance here comes from this having taken place on Manuel, I won't pretend to know what the fuck goes on in there.

[TheBibleMelts]

security is expected to try and use brig cells unless given good reason that it won't work out, typically.

[JupiterJaeden]

permaban the clown under rule 10 for being a bitch and complaining after getting shot for griefing

Clowns can have a little griefing, as a treat. I wish no ill upon the clown who met his fateful end upon the point of my shotgun. All part of the game.

Tbf the clown was also encouraged by the other clowns and admemery. Twas a clown frenzy.

[datorangebottle]

Innocent ban appeal thread: *exists*
Random person unrelated to the ban that misunderstands what the definition of 'headmin precedent' is:

[mrmelbert]

I escalate against people who refuse to take vaccine pills often (up to crit so I can force them to take it) but I dunno about this.

[TheBibleMelts]

I escalate against people who refuse to take vaccine pills often (up to crit so I can force them to take it) but I dunno about this.

clown was MEGA vaccinated. him joking about eating all the pills (he didn't actually) was what resulted in him being shot to death by the officer in question.

[Turbonerd]

Messing with the vaccination supply sounds like an extremely major crime if not capital. Not really worth a field execution unless there were special circumstances. Could probably justify permabrig if the clown actually did eat all or almost all of the vaccines.

Going for permabrig actually allows for a proper investigation and allow the clown to tell the truth, unlike a field execution.

[TheBibleMelts]

Messing with the vaccination supply sounds like an extremely major crime if not capital. Not really worth a field execution unless there were special circumstances. Could probably justify permabrig if the clown actually did eat all or almost all of the vaccines.

Going for permabrig actually allows for a proper investigation and allow the clown to tell the truth, unlike a field execution.

it was a disease curable by eating a banana, which was also being mass produced along with said vaccine. clown joked about eating the vaccine pills, but that hardly meant making people unable to be cured.

[dendydoom]

The nuance here comes from this having taken place on Manuel, I won't pretend to know what the fuck goes on in there.

to be fair i don't think we do either

[iwishforducks]

security shotgun blasting the clown for “eating all of the vaccine pills for the harmless virus that makes you honk” is REALLY funny

normally the best course of action is to just solve it ICly and tell security to revive the clown and leave it at that. but it seems like this guy has a trigger happy history so I think it makes sense to sec ban. that said idk what his history actually is i just trust thebiblemelts on this one

[vect0r]

Imma say I feel this is valid.

[EmpressMaia]

My favorite clown gimmick was a anti Vaxer / flat lavaland conspiracy clown that trashed all of the vaccines one round

[TypicalRig]

a clown cult thread, and bmon picks this thread title... so much potential wasted..

Really the clown doing what he did was fine, but him getting lynched for it is equally fine. I feel like if BibleMelts was handling this ticket with any officer with a relatively clean slate they would've easily gotten away with a low severity note, but I barely play on Manuel and even I know Jeff jumps to lethals for the tiniest things, which is already kind of discouraged on Manuel. Is it funny as hell? Absolutely. But sec mains have gotten quality controlled in the past for just using every possible opportunity to dish out lethals, so considering his reputation it would not hurt for him at all to be a bit more forgiving.

that being said if the clown ahelped over that (I guess in this case since he didn't actually eat the pills but took credit for it it's not really grief) he should really be given a harsh punishment for banbaiting since he put himself in a really dodgy predicament intentionally then had the gall to ahelp. i'm hoping this is just a case of biblemelts taking it upon their self to investigate though.

[kayozz]

Bioterrorism like that IS, I will note, a pretty severe crime.

Jeff doesn't fuck about when it comes to bioterrorism. One of the funniest executions I've ever seen was having the botanist traitor who released death-bees tied to a chair and stung to death.
If nothing else, I think Jeff is an incredibly hard-nosed, no-nonsense HOS. Considering most people find HOS very stressful, Jeff kinda slips into that role with ease, which i find both incredibly amusing and scary.
Maybe he's a tad too harsh? Perhaps? But I've never seen him not roleplay it and he's always trying to keep security in line.
For the record I've seen him ignore minor crimes and only concentrate on the shitters/dangerous types, rather than going all-out on the average greytider, so I think it's a tad unfair to say he's always looking for an excuse to kill.

[Vekter]

Kendrick late to the thread so I guess I have to do it.

0/10, awful title. Didn't even make a joke about clowns dying.

As for the actual ban, Jaeden's got a sheet a mile long with issues about killing people when he ought not to and I think this is more a concern about his reasoning for doing it ("it was funny") than him actually doing it. I don't like how he plays sec and honestly I think he'd do well to play some other roles for a while.

[TheLoLSwat]

manuel admin intervention and its consequences...

Clown getting shot to death by security for (pretending to ig?) eat all the vaccine pills for a disease is pretty peak ss13, and as long as the clown is revived hastily then a verbal / low severity note wouldve suffice imo.

[dendydoom]

jeff just needs to chill. he's a good hos but the way he engages with the round can often feel like he cares more about winning than seeing roleplay situations through to their completion. on lrp that seems to be fine, but on mrp we expect a little more leniency because death is the end of the story when a hos signs off on it. i would've even understood if he created a spectacle of the execution rather than just gunning them down in the street. just a little more imagination so that it creates interesting and enjoyable situations to be a part of, rather than shoot the evil funny man and win the video game. cmon jeff!

[Timonk]

Someone needs to say it.

People who cure themselves from pierrots throat are little pussy ass bitches who don't know how to have fun.

[Vekter]

manuel admin intervention and its consequences...

Clown getting shot to death by security for (pretending to ig?) eat all the vaccine pills for a disease is pretty peak ss13, and as long as the clown is revived hastily then a verbal / low severity note wouldve suffice imo.

I'm loath to agree with you on anything security-wise given your reputation /j

[GPeckman]

jeff just needs to chill. he's a good hos but the way he engages with the round can often feel like he cares more about winning than seeing roleplay situations through to their completion. on lrp that seems to be fine, but on mrp we expect a little more leniency because death is the end of the story when a hos signs off on it. i would've even understood if he created a spectacle of the execution rather than just gunning them down in the street. just a little more imagination so that it creates interesting and enjoyable situations to be a part of, rather than shoot the evil funny man and win the video game. cmon jeff!

Thing is, he went to the effort of getting the clown revived. That just doesn't really seem like play-to-win behavior to me.

[Chadley]

TBM using manuel-cord has gotta be friendly fire.

[conrad]

I'm starting to see a pattern and understand why some people have such a strong distaste for Manuel.

Too many unrobust LRP players.

[kayozz]

I'm starting to see a pattern and understand why some people have such a strong distaste for Manuel.

Too many unrobust LRP players.

Correct.

[dendydoom]

jeff just needs to chill. he's a good hos but the way he engages with the round can often feel like he cares more about winning than seeing roleplay situations through to their completion. on lrp that seems to be fine, but on mrp we expect a little more leniency because death is the end of the story when a hos signs off on it. i would've even understood if he created a spectacle of the execution rather than just gunning them down in the street. just a little more imagination so that it creates interesting and enjoyable situations to be a part of, rather than shoot the evil funny man and win the video game. cmon jeff!

Thing is, he went to the effort of getting the clown revived. That just doesn't really seem like play-to-win behavior to me.

he didn't even execute the person who was at fault because he was too eager to cap someone to actually investigate it. the clown who was killed wasn't the one who released the virus. they ate a handful of pills of a vaccine that was being mass produced, as well as botany creating bananas which also cure it. they jokingly put on comms "i'm eating all the vaccines!!!". at most the captain said to "beat them up" but jeff somehow took this to mean "gun them down and then keep shooting them while they're a limp corpse on the ground." generally when we investigate bad killings getting them revived is the bare minimum of recompense, not an immediate absolution of any wrongdoing in the first place.

in either case, i don't like to nitpick at this level because it's not helpful from a player's point of view. the round is chaotic, hos is a stressful role, i am aware and empathetic of that. it's the attitude that creates the problem. if jeff wasn't so eager to kill anyone who registers on the valid-o-meter then this wouldn't have happened. he would've done the bare minimum of investigation, seen that there were still vaccines, seen that there were still bananas, seen that the clown was just fucking around, then realized there would be no justifiable reason to stick both barrels of a shotgun into pagliacci's mouth and pull the trigger.

[Lacran]

I would've just permad the clown.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Seems pretty clear that this is a developing-pattern ban to remind a troublesome sec player that he should be sending prisoners to jail instead of blasting them into chunky salsa when they arent like, blowing up science or whatever.

That said this sounds like an extremely amusing situation all around where the clown kinda deserved it.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

IC Issue, Clowns are allowed to grief a little as a treat, and the crew are allowed to lynch the clown in response. As a Clown, if you get lynched for your antics, that should be a badge of honour.

The Clown was even revived! So the Clown did something funny, and then got merc'd for it, which is ALSO really funny! Literally nothing bad happened here.

I'm also not sure why people say Jeff does too bad with Sec. My main static hates him IC (I hope he knows it's all IC) because he goes too easy on people at times. Admittedly I'm not super active anymore, so maybe I just don't see the Bad, but it's surprising to me.

Edit: Logs show the Clown taking great joy in the Fucking Around part and then malding in deadchat when he Finds Out. Job ban him from Clown. A Clown's goal should be trying to make people laugh, not trying to laugh at peoples' expenses. The 'Find Out' part of 'Fuck Around and Find Out' is an essential part in making it Clown Shit rather than Griefing.

[TheBibleMelts]

IC Issue, Clowns are allowed to grief a little as a treat, and the crew are allowed to lynch the clown in response. As a Clown, if you get lynched for your antics, that should be a badge of honour.

The Clown was even revived! So the Clown did something funny, and then got merc'd for it, which is ALSO really funny! Literally nothing bad happened here.

I'm also not sure why people say Jeff does too bad with Sec. My main static hates him IC (I hope he knows it's all IC) because he goes too easy on people at times. Admittedly I'm not super active anymore, so maybe I just don't see the Bad, but it's surprising to me.

Edit: Logs show the Clown taking great joy in the Fucking Around part and then malding in deadchat when he Finds Out. Job ban him from Clown. A Clown's goal should be trying to make people laugh, not trying to laugh at peoples' expenses. The 'Find Out' part of 'Fuck Around and Find Out' is an essential part in making it Clown Shit rather than Griefing.

i thought so initially too with the jobban, but after talking with the clown i didn't think the Find Out was proportional to the Fuck Around in this instance.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

[We do a little snipping of irrelevant parts]
Edit: Logs show the Clown taking great joy in the Fucking Around part and then malding in deadchat when he Finds Out. Job ban him from Clown. A Clown's goal should be trying to make people laugh, not trying to laugh at peoples' expenses. The 'Find Out' part of 'Fuck Around and Find Out' is an essential part in making it Clown Shit rather than Griefing.

i thought so initially too with the jobban, but after talking with the clown i didn't think the Find Out was proportional to the Fuck Around in this instance.

I still somewhat stand by lynching the Clown being an iconic SS13 pass-time. And personally, I consider Pierrot's to be something worthy of it, because people probably don't want to get Clown'd (does it still do that? I loosely remember Pierrot's eventually turning you into a Clown if untreated)

Did Gaiman actually keep shooting after the Clown was dead? If so, then fair enough, because that does put a pretty big delay on the revival, but if not then...iunno, agree to disagree, I suppose.

[TypicalRig]

03:01:04 SAY Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) (DEAD) "i just got executed for eating pills" (117, 173, 4) Brig Overlook

GROSSLY misrepresenting what happened for sympathy. yikes. Knowing the clown was the one who ahelped only makes this worse, too. I think in this scenario, even if Jeff's punishment was justified, that the clown still should've gotten a severe punishment for ahelping that. Not everyone knows what Pierrot's Throat is, what it does, and a disease going around for people not fully invested in the game would obviously lead to panic. Everyone knows what a vaccine is, but not everyone knows how to identify the cure and find a source of said cure. The clown doing this shenanigan was totally warranted, but ahelping over mass conflict that they started is just weaponizing the admin team. I think since it's being brought to headmin attention the best case scenario would be upholding the ban on Jeff (maybe a reduction of total ban time?) and also giving the clown a bigger ban for banbaiting.

But since it seems the current meta on Manuel is throwing a "woe is me this was fnr" act in ahelps and disregarding the greater context, this'll probably just end with Jeff's note being upheld and nothing else.

[TheBibleMelts]

03:01:04 SAY Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) (DEAD) "i just got executed for eating pills" (117, 173, 4) Brig Overlook

GROSSLY misrepresenting what happened for sympathy. yikes. Knowing the clown was the one who ahelped only makes this worse, too. I think in this scenario, even if Jeff's punishment was justified, that the clown still should've gotten a severe punishment for ahelping that. Not everyone knows what Pierrot's Throat is, what it does, and a disease going around for people not fully invested in the game would obviously lead to panic. Everyone knows what a vaccine is, but not everyone knows how to identify the cure and find a source of said cure. The clown doing this shenanigan was totally warranted, but ahelping over mass conflict that they started is just weaponizing the admin team. I think since it's being brought to headmin attention the best case scenario would be upholding the ban on Jeff (maybe a reduction of total ban time?) and also giving the clown a bigger ban for banbaiting.

But since it seems the current meta on Manuel is throwing a "woe is me this was fnr" act in ahelps and disregarding the greater context, this'll probably just end with Jeff's note being upheld and nothing else.

the clown didn't start the outbreak, and so far as i can tell by logs, eating the pills was indeed the worst thing they did aside from the verbal (but not followed through) threat to eat them all. i usually delight in getting to turn adminhelps around on people when it turns out they did something to bait another player and then adminhelp the resulting fallout, but this didn't seem to be one going by the usual sniff-test.

[conrad]

I still somewhat stand by lynching the Clown being an iconic SS13 pass-time.

Shooting someone dead isn't lynching. It's shooting someone dead. Iconic SS13 moments need to be funny. Bringing the clown to CPH to be beaten up for eating all the pills is funny. Executing them and carrying on is just 2d CoD. yawnorama

[TypicalRig]

03:01:04 SAY Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) (DEAD) "i just got executed for eating pills" (117, 173, 4) Brig Overlook

GROSSLY misrepresenting what happened for sympathy. yikes. Knowing the clown was the one who ahelped only makes this worse, too. I think in this scenario, even if Jeff's punishment was justified, that the clown still should've gotten a severe punishment for ahelping that. Not everyone knows what Pierrot's Throat is, what it does, and a disease going around for people not fully invested in the game would obviously lead to panic. Everyone knows what a vaccine is, but not everyone knows how to identify the cure and find a source of said cure. The clown doing this shenanigan was totally warranted, but ahelping over mass conflict that they started is just weaponizing the admin team. I think since it's being brought to headmin attention the best case scenario would be upholding the ban on Jeff (maybe a reduction of total ban time?) and also giving the clown a bigger ban for banbaiting.

But since it seems the current meta on Manuel is throwing a "woe is me this was fnr" act in ahelps and disregarding the greater context, this'll probably just end with Jeff's note being upheld and nothing else.

the clown didn't start the outbreak, and so far as i can tell by logs, eating the pills was indeed the worst thing they did aside from the verbal (but not followed through) threat to eat them all. i usually delight in getting to turn adminhelps around on people when it turns out they did something to bait another player and then adminhelp the resulting fallout, but this didn't seem to be one going by the usual sniff-test.

I never said he started the outbreak. I'm giving context as to why from a RP perspective, that a lynching was rather justified with the HoS's limited knowledge.

what did the clown expect to happen by gleefully telling people that he was the one to devour all the vaccines

[mstachife]

If I had a spare fire axe odds are I would've honked the clown some too.

Also the most worst part out of all this was the clown who got lynched over eating vaccine pills complained/lied about it and gets off even being revived after ahelping. Absolutely sickening behavior from a clown, they should know better. There are standards dammit.

[TheBibleMelts]

03:01:04 SAY Jonathan576/(Slippy Jimmy) (DEAD) "i just got executed for eating pills" (117, 173, 4) Brig Overlook

GROSSLY misrepresenting what happened for sympathy. yikes. Knowing the clown was the one who ahelped only makes this worse, too. I think in this scenario, even if Jeff's punishment was justified, that the clown still should've gotten a severe punishment for ahelping that. Not everyone knows what Pierrot's Throat is, what it does, and a disease going around for people not fully invested in the game would obviously lead to panic. Everyone knows what a vaccine is, but not everyone knows how to identify the cure and find a source of said cure. The clown doing this shenanigan was totally warranted, but ahelping over mass conflict that they started is just weaponizing the admin team. I think since it's being brought to headmin attention the best case scenario would be upholding the ban on Jeff (maybe a reduction of total ban time?) and also giving the clown a bigger ban for banbaiting.

But since it seems the current meta on Manuel is throwing a "woe is me this was fnr" act in ahelps and disregarding the greater context, this'll probably just end with Jeff's note being upheld and nothing else.

the clown didn't start the outbreak, and so far as i can tell by logs, eating the pills was indeed the worst thing they did aside from the verbal (but not followed through) threat to eat them all. i usually delight in getting to turn adminhelps around on people when it turns out they did something to bait another player and then adminhelp the resulting fallout, but this didn't seem to be one going by the usual sniff-test.

I never said he started the outbreak. I'm giving context as to why from a RP perspective, that a lynching was rather justified with the HoS's limited knowledge.

what did the clown expect to happen by gleefully telling people that he was the one to devour all the vaccines

they were just a regular officer, not HoS - but yeah i'm not defending the fact that the clown didn't have something coming. i'm defending the players right to be able to roleplay out that 'something coming' when it arrives provided they're not an active threat or proving difficult to contain. shoot until dead on sight is a pretty quick way to kill roleplay and discourage it altogether. it makes more sense for non-security to go mob justice like this due to their lack of tools to do it in other ways, but the story 100% did not need to play out to such a quick termination if both parties were playing in good faith.

[iwishforducks]

i think killing people is good roleplay but i get what you’re getting at

[kayozz]

Absolutely sickening behavior from a clown

I laughed.

[Kendrickorium]

Manuel, the server where you can fuck around, find out, then make the other guy find out for fucking around.

[kayozz]

Jeff you fucker, go play clown for 20 rounds and I'll stop defending you.

[RedBaronFlyer]

0/10 thread title

Really weak sauce job ban that’s only happening because Jeff has reached the terminal “notes/bans leading to more notes/bans” phase. Jeff’s a bit trigger happy but he honestly role plays better than most of Manuel (who have squeaky clean records because they never do anything) it’s just that he also tends to be a little overeager with force. I wish antags got remotely the amount of scrutiny sec players got. Admins act like this and dynamic is a shit show then people turn around and wonder why sec always has like, four people in the department, tops. Dynamic doesn’t work really well with low sec pop no matter how hard Mothblocks tries to say otherwise.

Peak IC issue where the clown fucked around and found out. It’s baffling to me that the clown did this, got killed, got revived a bit afterwards*, then had the genius idea that this wasn’t an IC issue, and the admin AGREED.

*14 minutes is a long time to wait for revival.

I’ve always seen the clown as being a “you can get away with more shit than a regular crew member but regular crew members can get away with more shit against you”

Manuel’s a bunch of pansies that want security to treat everything with kiddie gloves and then will call a sec officer an asshole at the end of the round in OOC and in the round end chat for arresting them when they were tiding, while also complaining that an antagonist didn’t get field executed and round removed for putting up syndie posters.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I still somewhat stand by lynching the Clown being an iconic SS13 pass-time.

Shooting someone dead isn't lynching. It's shooting someone dead. Iconic SS13 moments need to be funny. Bringing the clown to CPH to be beaten up for eating all the pills is funny. Executing them and carrying on is just 2d CoD. yawnorama

Watching a clown get turned into a fine red mist by Security after the Clown does something that would be griefing if done by any other job, is both hilarious and satisfying. The fact that the Clown got revived after removes any issue I might have with it (because it's a relatively minor level of griefing that doesn't warrant Round Removal).

If you want to talk about 2D CoD, the Revolution (arguably Nukies, but I like Nukies so I'm not going to put it under scrutiny) gamemode is right there.

[JupiterJaeden]

0/10 thread title

Really weak sauce job ban that’s only happening because Jeff has reached the terminal “notes/bans leading to more notes/bans” phase. Jeff’s a bit trigger happy but he honestly role plays better than most of Manuel (who have squeaky clean records because they never do anything) it’s just that he also tends to be a little overeager with force. I wish antags got remotely the amount of scrutiny sec players got. Admins act like this and dynamic is a shit show then people turn around and wonder why sec always has like, four people in the department, tops. Dynamic doesn’t work really well with low sec pop no matter how hard Mothblocks tries to say otherwise.

Peak IC issue where the clown fucked around and found out. It’s baffling to me that the clown did this, got killed, got revived a bit afterwards*, then had the genius idea that this wasn’t an IC issue, and the admin AGREED.

*14 minutes is a long time to wait for revival.

I’ve always seen the clown as being a “you can get away with more shit than a regular crew member but regular crew members can get away with more shit against you”

Manuel’s a bunch of pansies that want security to treat everything with kiddie gloves and then will call a sec officer an asshole at the end of the round in OOC and in the round end chat for arresting them when they were tiding, while also complaining that an antagonist didn’t get field executed and round removed for putting up syndie posters.

I was honestly a little surprised I got bwoinked at all. "Peak IC issue" definitely seems like a good way to describe how I saw it at the time lol.

[EmpressMaia]

Yah I thought this over and its kinda weak.

[EmpressMaia]

Same ideas as baron but with more blame on dynamic. Dynamic fucks sec over hard and admins are always breathing down the 3 sec players collars incase the catgirl gets mad they got harm batoned for being an asshole