Terry Admin Seethes Over Successful Cult Recruitment Campaign

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:55 am

Post by **kieth4** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:50 am #704786

At the end of the day roleplay should be king, if there was fighting beforehand and he genuienly is out of luck he should be allowed to surrender really.

The rule was probably written to stop people roundstart going yes please convert me and not to stop people surrendering. Suicidally fighting is something I have fun doing but fully respect that that people don't.

Veers into rule 0 territory imo IF he was fighting

ekaterina · Post by **ekaterina** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:35 am #704790

Guh?? What happened to kieth4's yellow name? Why is he not a game master like the rest of the former headmins? His name should've gone from bright yellow to dark yellow, not to blue!

As to this note, this is so incredibly stupid. Player employs "fear RP", gets noted for it.
RD noted for suboptimal gaming. OWN THE ANTAGS NEXT TIME, BOZO!

I second kieth4's point. A military officer (and certified badass

) like Head of Security Marina Rudinova may prefer death to surrender, but that doesn't mean every single character has to.

kinnebian · Post by **kinnebian** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:47 am #704791

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:35 am Guh?? What happened to kieth4's yellow name? Why is he not a game master like the rest of the former headmins? His name should've gone from bright yellow to dark yellow, not to blue!

immediately retired

kayozz · Post by **kayozz** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:58 am #704793

I don't often comment on ban reasons, but this is some bullshit banning.
I personally would have fought to the death, but if you're literally surrounded by cult and almost in crit, I can see why someone would surrender.

This note is neither factually incorrect nor unjustifiably harsh.

I beg to differ.

kinnebian · Post by **kinnebian** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:02 am #704794

afaik the precedent on willing conversions is meant to stop people blatantly joining cults and seeking out conversion, this is clearly not that; he fought to the death, was brought back and surronded by the cult instead and forced to convert under threat of death
this is the furthest thing from willing i can think of

Post by **dendydoom** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:02 am #704795

kieth4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:50 am At the end of the day roleplay should be king, if there was fighting beforehand and he genuienly is out of luck he should be allowed to surrender really.

The rule was probably written to stop people roundstart going yes please convert me and not to stop people surrendering. Suicidally fighting is something I have fun doing but fully respect that that people don't.

Veers into rule 0 territory imo IF he was fighting

yea this was basically my sentiment too in the discussion around it. i haven't read the logs for this round myself, but if they were truly fighting tooth and nail in the beginning to defeat the cult, but surrendered when the tables were turned and the only choices were give up or die, to me that creates a compelling narrative that defies the "hehe oh no i slipped and got converted now i have to kill the crew!" reasoning that the headmin ruling was seemingly made to stop.

i could essaypost this shit but i have a cold so i'm just gonna post my original unfiltered opinion:

however this comes with the caveat that i don't know the situation fully or the people involved this is just my reasoning in a vacuum when i make my own decisions around these sorts of situations. the argument could also be made that in those 33 seconds they could have tried to escape or something like that. without having been there to witness the situation it's impossible to say what options were truly available to them at the time so perhaps the surrender was kinda corny if there was an open door right there or something. idk.

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:31 am #704797

I was originally in favour of this note but then I went to sleep woke up and changed my mind.

My original take was that there was no discernible venn diagram between purposively getting converted and saying "fuck it" when you know there's no way to win. Team antags shred RP due to being inherently videogamey. Rare is the team that works through their goals while writing a story rather than just playing to win.

Especially on LRP.

I still stand that whatever semblance of a sandbox flies out the window if there is a confirmed cult or rev happening since it becomes a team deathmatch with gimmicks. To say nothing of warops.

But then I realized that in the same situation I'd get really miffed if I saw no other way out and decided to surrender, only for an admeme to swoop in and punish me.

That is to say, if it is the same situation we're all thinking.

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am #704798

Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.

Post by **dendydoom** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:40 am #704799

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.

no puns either. weak as shit. "terryfied player noted for surrendering to terryffic cult recruitment campaign" like cmon this ain't hard kendrick!!

Post by **Archie700** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:44 am #704800

God of Thunder Smites Surrendering RD for Betraying their Religion

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:46 am #704801

Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:44 am God of Thunder Smites Surrendering RD for Betraying their Religion

See this is way better. 7/10.

Mine would be "Surrendering player learns that sowing Thunder means you nut lightning"

>Topical
>Wise proverb (replace nut with harvest IRL please)
>nut in the title

Post by **kieth4** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:51 am #704802

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:02 am
kieth4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:50 am At the end of the day roleplay should be king, if there was fighting beforehand and he genuienly is out of luck he should be allowed to surrender really.

The rule was probably written to stop people roundstart going yes please convert me and not to stop people surrendering. Suicidally fighting is something I have fun doing but fully respect that that people don't.

Veers into rule 0 territory imo IF he was fighting
yea this was basically my sentiment too in the discussion around it. i haven't read the logs for this round myself, but if they were truly fighting tooth and nail in the beginning to defeat the cult, but surrendered when the tables were turned and the only choices were give up or die, to me that creates a compelling narrative that defies the "hehe oh no i slipped and got converted now i have to kill the crew!" reasoning that the headmin ruling was seemingly made to stop.

i could essaypost this shit but i have a cold so i'm just gonna post my original unfiltered opinion:

however this comes with the caveat that i don't know the situation fully or the people involved this is just my reasoning in a vacuum when i make my own decisions around these sorts of situations. the argument could also be made that in those 33 seconds they could have tried to escape or something like that. without having been there to witness the situation it's impossible to say what options were truly available to them at the time so perhaps the surrender was kinda corny if there was an open door right there or something. idk.

Glad there's some agreement here.

I'm of the view that sometimes it's very easy to look at something and go "well this is what it says" w/o applying the nuance of each unique situation which seems to have happened here (If the facts are as presented as I have not seen logs)

Post by **Archie700** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:53 am #704803

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:46 am
Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:44 am God of Thunder Smites Surrendering RD for Betraying their Religion
See this is way better. 7/10.

Mine would be "Surrendering player learns that sowing Thunder means you nut lightning"

>Topical
>Wise proverb (replace nut with harvest IRL please)
>nut in the title

>nut
get out/10

Post by **Fikou** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:59 am #704804

i dont think the player is portraying the situation accurately if you actually look at the attack/game logs

Post by **kieth4** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:09 pm #704805

post them sir

TypicalRig · Post by **TypicalRig** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:42 pm #704806

I kind of see it both ways. The issue with conversions is it's hard to differentiate between the people that go at the cult to unga with poor prep because they are just stupid and fight like that vs the people that go at the cult to unga with no prep because they're trying to put themselves in a position where they get converted. We have a lot of players on LRP that intentionally do the latter. From an administrative perspective, it's much easier to just disallow any forms of willing conversions because nuanced cases on this sound like a nightmare.

From a roleplay perspective, yeah being gutted alive mindlessly like it's just a combat simulator is pretty lame, but I feel like that's kind of just a risk you take by participating in high threat raids like cult. I'd be more sympathetic if he was just a random unarmed person doing his job in his department when suddenly jumped by a cult, but in this scenario he did actively engage them. Kind of just goes with LRP, no?

Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:47 pm

kieth4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:50 am At the end of the day roleplay should be king, if there was fighting beforehand and he genuienly is out of luck he should be allowed to surrender really.

The rule was probably written to stop people roundstart going yes please convert me and not to stop people surrendering. Suicidally fighting is something I have fun doing but fully respect that that people don't.

Veers into rule 0 territory imo IF he was fighting

If only we were able to pump out the roleplay/story is the priority rule change smh. We almost got everything we wanted to get out, out.

Like obviously there are lots of variables that could point to 'bad reason', but, there's a chance, there's a possibility.

I'm not really going to provide anymore commentary until everyone has seen all the logs though.

ekaterina · Post by **ekaterina** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:11 pm #704810

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:47 pm If only we were able to pump out the roleplay/story is the priority rule change smh.

Why weren't you? Wouldn't it only have taken the three of you agreeing on it?

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:21 pm #704811

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:11 pm
Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:47 pm If only we were able to pump out the roleplay/story is the priority rule change smh.
Why weren't you? Wouldn't it only have taken the three of you agreeing on it?

Oh you sweet summer child you have no idea how hard it is to get three admins to agree on something, let alone headmins elected by three distinct groups.

Post by **kieth4** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:23 pm #704812

We were pushing it too late into our term really. Had a lot going on you know?

Maybe I'll run with it when I run in 6 months or smth.

SkyMonster · Post by **SkyMonster** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:25 pm #704813

Seems like admin overreach based on what has been presented so far. I've been vindictively sharded by a cultist (played by a fucking admin) for calling them out while they had me restrained. Would I do the same again? Probably not, because I know it's going to fucking ruin my shift. I would RP being terrified of the cult and submitting next time if in such a situation.

ekaterina · Post by **ekaterina** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:35 pm #704815

SkyMonster wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:25 pm Seems like admin overreach based on what has been presented so far. I've been vindictively sharded by a cultist (played by a fucking admin) for calling them out while they had me restrained. Would I do the same again? Probably not, because I know it's going to fucking ruin my shift. I would RP being terrified of the cult and submitting next time if in such a situation.

Could this have been ahelped? Seems like a rule 1 violation being a dick to your fellow team antags, and a violation of rule 4 since you are also hindering your team as a whole by keeping someone sharded out of spite.

TheLoLSwat · Post by **TheLoLSwat** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:36 pm #704816

First appeal where we can see how the new term operates and how fast (if it does get to headmin review)

SkyMonster · Post by **SkyMonster** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:48 pm #704817

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:35 pmCould this have been ahelped? Seems like a rule 1 violation being a dick to your fellow team antags, and a violation of rule 4 since you are also hindering your team as a whole by keeping someone sharded out of spite.

Rule 1 violation probably not.
Rule 4 maybe? I would have been an asset given I was a paramed.

I did not and would not ahelp it because I empathised with their situation. It was a rough go for me, seemingly rough enough I even recall the event in the first place. However, I was the first one to call out the cult and it added to the round, even if I ended up as a salty shard.
Perhaps the fact it will influence my IC actions from that point on is something of concern, but I really don't care enough about this game or policy enough to give it much thought.

RedBaronFlyer · Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:56 pm

I'm a bit confused about this as well since I've surrendered to cult a few times when it's completely hopeless. The biggest one coming to mind was when I had two constructs and a cultist in full armor and a sword, and I was already about to die.

There's a huge difference between randomly b-lining to the cultist to get converted vs. surrendering to be converted in a hopeless situation.

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:02 pm #704819

I've done as such in many scenarios with a fun variety of results. This case is a good leaning into the kind of emergent roleplay I think should be encouraged instead of noted/banned. For what I can see in the logs there was no malice here, just an opportunity taken to allow things to play out on a different way than usual (unga clicking bad guys, bad guys unga click me)

Otherwise what ends up getting encouraged is the gamer culture of fighting to the death no matter what, everyone mixing into the same grey bag of numb self-inserts with no care in the world of what their static would be thinking or feeling depending on the situation at hand.

Does Thunder really think optimal mechanic play is the way to go? What was the RD supposed to do? Try to robust his way out of an impossible situation, attacking everyone like a simple mob? :rollseyes:

Post by **Jacquerel** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:38 pm #704822

I don't normally care that much about typos but something about "seeths" in this title is really bothering me.

RedBaronFlyer · Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:43 pm

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:38 pm I don't normally care that much about typos but something about "seeths" in this title is really bothering me.

Hey, Hey people, Seeth here.

Post by **Timberpoes** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:31 pm #704829

Don't let the rules get in the way of a good story.

Turbonerd · Post by **Turbonerd** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:43 pm #704830

People shouldn't really have to think about the rules if they're roleplaying organically in good faith. At the same time our perception of the user's description is mostly our imagination. I haven't looked at the logs and there might be more into this. If there isn't, then this is kind of a weak excuse of a note and gibbing.

RedBaronFlyer · Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:44 pm

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:31 pm Don't let the rules get in the way of a good story.

I don't even think it's strictly that, it's that an headmin ruling (I think?) is being used incorrectly. The intension of that was to prevent Gary Greytider from b-lining to a cult/rev hotspot when it gets announced to get converted so they can kill people. Not to smack Raul Rulefolower over the head for surrendering when a situation is 100% hopeless and would just get them killed when the reason for surrendering is both justifiable in RP and an OOC sense. Thunder11 is seemingly thinking that the person should have fought when, from what it sounds like, they would have been instacrit had they done anything. Unless there's some sort of context that neither side is mentioning this seems like a case of a ruling being used for a case that it sounds like it covers, when part of the ruling involves intent.

I've surrendered a few times to cult when we were fighting them, and then suddenly one-third of the assault team is dead, one-third is crit, and the other third is routing to the medbay/security, or are running for the pods/shuttle/lavaland. Meanwhile, you're there, you're too injured to run away, and armed up enough to fight a bunch of cultists, of course surrender is the only viable option unless you wanna get killed.

Oh, and the admin gibbed the person as well, the fuck were they thinking when they did that? Literal badmin type shit. Absolute F-tier conduct.

Unless this is the player bullshiting and the admin hasn't pulled up the logs, it sounds like a really bad note and gib reason. Right now the only logs in the appeal are basically tantamount to "You said you surrendered, then you laid there!" which the surrender emote stuns you for, like, 10 seconds, so that sounds about right.

iwishforducks · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:14 pm

logs literally show em fighting cult

AsbestosSniffer · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:21 pm

This note is a load of horseshit
That's all

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:35 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.

i already gave myself a 7/10, thanks for your input though

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:39 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:40 am
conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.
no puns either. weak as shit. "terryfied player noted for surrendering to terryffic cult recruitment campaign" like cmon this ain't hard kendrick!!

thats an awful usage of punnage, 4/10

reminder for those wishing to judge titles to submit your application requests on time next year

iwishforducks · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:40 pm

Admin’s guide to conversion therapy

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:42 pm

Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:44 am God of Thunder Smites Surrendering RD for Betraying their Religion

not bad, 7/10

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:45 pm

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:36 pm First appeal where we can see how the new term operates and how fast (if it does get to headmin review)

this is a pretty good case to get the new headmin term ball rolling

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:38 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.

not every title has to have the word nut in it old man

conrad · Post by **conrad** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:44 pm #704844

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:38 pm
conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.

not every title has to have the word nut in it old man

Armhulen directive dictates it has to. We respect the fallen in this christian server.

also lel

Capsandi · Post by **Capsandi** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:48 pm #704845

I am erring on the side of a note being reasonable because this was the result of non-security forces going on the offensive against a cult base. But idk if this was while the cult was blitzkreging the hallways or if it was the last bastion of antichrist behavior in some corner of maintenance so w/e

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:58 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:44 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:38 pm
conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:37 am Oh yeah thread title sucks. Someone in a position to rate them should have at least have the skillset to produce gold outta straw.

3/10 'cos I like new's report style peanut titles. Was gonna be 4 but -1 for not including the word "nut" on the title as was mandated by his late lordship armhulen.

not every title has to have the word nut in it old man
Armhulen directive dictates it has to. We respect the fallen in this christian server.

also lel

where is this directive, armhulen did not bring this up at any judge's meetings

Post by **Fikou** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:23 pm #704849

kieth4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:09 pmpost them sir

So, here's the appealer's portrayal

I, the research director, was taking part in a raid on the ritual site of the cult. We were seemingly winning, and I along with a mediborg stayed to get a deepcrit cultist to brig for deconversion. Suddenly, a wraith rushes out of captain's office (where the ritual was taking place) and hurt as I am I get put into crit. When I get up, I am surrounded by a strike squad of fully armed and armored cultists and constructs, and as I see absolutely no chance of survival otherwise, I surrender. The cultists prepare an offering circle beneath me, and as it flashes red I am instantly gibbed by Thunder

When looking at the logs, you see this

Spoiler:

[2023-09-17 15:12:18.184] ATTACK: Maxipat/(Shade of Mei Fumiwara) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (104,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:31.937] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) shot Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the laser (NEWHP: 91) (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:39.307] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) used a cult spell on Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with Stun (NEWHP: 66) (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:44.240] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with eldritch longsword (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 36) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.748] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 36) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.752] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 26) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))

So, for a minute they generally get wailed on by cult, and fall to 26 hp, then being healed by a borg. They never fell into crit.

[2023-09-17 15:13:32.615] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/libital (5u, 0.75 purity)) from to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 26) (Bridge (113,129,2))
More healing logs...
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.367] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) temp shocked for 30 seconds [Captain's Quarters] (Bridge (114,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.391] ATTACK: [Captain's Quarters] electrocuted Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 6.9) (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
More healing logs...

They shock themselves on Captain's door. Still not in crit.
After this, there is another scuffle with cultists

[2023-09-17 15:13:57.313] ATTACK: Tqkres/(Firar Baba) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 37.9) (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
(Notice the 37 health from the heals)
Ton of logs about the borg flashing people...
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.107] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) stun attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: -10.1) (Gateway (116,124,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.987] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -15.1) (Gateway (116,124,2))
Cuff, strip and attack logs of this guy, up to
[2023-09-17 15:16:30.102] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))

You have now spent 3 minutes dicking around in the cult infested command area, all of this time you can run away.

[2023-09-17 15:16:35.265] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (104,127,2))

Here is the wraith referred to in the appeal. The RD is now at 100% health from the borg's healing.

[2023-09-17 15:16:36.079] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) grabbed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -79.7) (Command Hallway (101,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.127] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 85) (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.962] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) thrown LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) grab from tile in Command Hallway (99,127,2) towards tile at Command Hallway (103,126,2) (NEWHP: -79.7) (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.964] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown Ivan Pavlovich (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.360] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 70) (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:41.710] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 55) (Command Hallway (111,127,2))

At this point, the wraith starts a fight with the borg and stops caring about the RD for a while. The RD has never entered crit like he claims. As far as I see they could have ran away while the borg scuffle happened. I don't see any logs of anything that would knock them out either.
Then, 20 seconds later...

[2023-09-17 15:17:03.521] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35) (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.701] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) puts his hands on his head and falls to the ground, he surrenders! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))

The RD surrenders and 30 seconds later gets converted

I think that as the RD that hangs around in the cult infested area for 5 minutes for the purpose of fucking with cultists you don't have the excuse of fear RP to surrender instead of trying to run away.

Kendrickorium · Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:26 pm

Fikou wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:23 pm
kieth4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:09 pmpost them sir
So, here's the appealer's portrayal
I, the research director, was taking part in a raid on the ritual site of the cult. We were seemingly winning, and I along with a mediborg stayed to get a deepcrit cultist to brig for deconversion. Suddenly, a wraith rushes out of captain's office (where the ritual was taking place) and hurt as I am I get put into crit. When I get up, I am surrounded by a strike squad of fully armed and armored cultists and constructs, and as I see absolutely no chance of survival otherwise, I surrender. The cultists prepare an offering circle beneath me, and as it flashes red I am instantly gibbed by Thunder
When looking at the logs, you see this
Spoiler:

[2023-09-17 15:12:18.184] ATTACK: Maxipat/(Shade of Mei Fumiwara) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (104,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:31.937] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) shot Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the laser (NEWHP: 91) (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:39.307] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) used a cult spell on Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with Stun (NEWHP: 66) (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:44.240] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with eldritch longsword (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 36) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.748] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 36) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.752] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 26) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
So, for a minute they generally get wailed on by cult, and fall to 26 hp, then being healed by a borg. They never fell into crit.
[2023-09-17 15:13:32.615] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/libital (5u, 0.75 purity)) from to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 26) (Bridge (113,129,2))
More healing logs...
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.367] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) temp shocked for 30 seconds [Captain's Quarters] (Bridge (114,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.391] ATTACK: [Captain's Quarters] electrocuted Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 6.9) (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
More healing logs...
They shock themselves on Captain's door. Still not in crit.
After this, there is another scuffle with cultists
[2023-09-17 15:13:57.313] ATTACK: Tqkres/(Firar Baba) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 37.9) (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
(Notice the 37 health from the heals)
Ton of logs about the borg flashing people...
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.107] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) stun attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: -10.1) (Gateway (116,124,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.987] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -15.1) (Gateway (116,124,2))
Cuff, strip and attack logs of this guy, up to
[2023-09-17 15:16:30.102] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
You have now spent 3 minutes dicking around in the cult infested command area, all of this time you can run away.
[2023-09-17 15:16:35.265] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
Here is the wraith referred to in the appeal. The RD is now at 100% health from the borg's healing.
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.079] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) grabbed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -79.7) (Command Hallway (101,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.127] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 85) (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.962] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) thrown LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) grab from tile in Command Hallway (99,127,2) towards tile at Command Hallway (103,126,2) (NEWHP: -79.7) (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.964] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown Ivan Pavlovich (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.360] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 70) (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:41.710] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 55) (Command Hallway (111,127,2))
At this point, the wraith starts a fight with the borg and stops caring about the RD for a while. The RD has never entered crit like he claims. As far as I see they could have ran away while the borg scuffle happened. I don't see any logs of anything that would knock them out either.
Then, 20 seconds later...
[2023-09-17 15:17:03.521] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35) (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.701] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) puts his hands on his head and falls to the ground, he surrenders! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
The RD surrenders and 30 seconds later gets converted

I think that as the RD that hangs around in the cult infested area for 5 minutes for the purpose of fucking with cultists you don't have the excuse of fear RP to surrender instead of trying to run away.

not everyone is korol konents is all ill say

Post by **Fikou** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:29 pm #704851

then run (or dont pretend to be korol konets for 5 minutes in a gamer zone to then back away)

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:37 pm #704852

Then stop telling people how to play the sandbox roleplaying game just because it's what you'd do in their situation.

Post by **Fikou** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:38 pm #704854

that's not what i would do i'd just die trying to kill them :p

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:40 pm #704855

I rest my case.

Post by **kieth4** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:56 pm #704859

Fikou wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:23 pm
kieth4 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:09 pmpost them sir
So, here's the appealer's portrayal
I, the research director, was taking part in a raid on the ritual site of the cult. We were seemingly winning, and I along with a mediborg stayed to get a deepcrit cultist to brig for deconversion. Suddenly, a wraith rushes out of captain's office (where the ritual was taking place) and hurt as I am I get put into crit. When I get up, I am surrounded by a strike squad of fully armed and armored cultists and constructs, and as I see absolutely no chance of survival otherwise, I surrender. The cultists prepare an offering circle beneath me, and as it flashes red I am instantly gibbed by Thunder
When looking at the logs, you see this
Spoiler:

[2023-09-17 15:12:18.184] ATTACK: Maxipat/(Shade of Mei Fumiwara) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (104,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:31.937] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) shot Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the laser (NEWHP: 91) (Command Hallway (117,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:39.307] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) used a cult spell on Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with Stun (NEWHP: 66) (Command Hallway (119,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:44.240] ATTACK: MiniMeatwad/(Rebecca Gettemy) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with eldritch longsword (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 36) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.748] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 36) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
[2023-09-17 15:12:57.752] ATTACK: Crayno/(Nyla Harrow) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 26) (Captain's Quarters (117,128,2))
So, for a minute they generally get wailed on by cult, and fall to 26 hp, then being healed by a borg. They never fell into crit.
[2023-09-17 15:13:32.615] ATTACK: Psyduckxoxo/(P.A.L. 9000) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/libital (5u, 0.75 purity)) from to Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 26) (Bridge (113,129,2))
More healing logs...
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.367] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) temp shocked for 30 seconds [Captain's Quarters] (Bridge (114,129,2))
[2023-09-17 15:13:36.391] ATTACK: [Captain's Quarters] electrocuted Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 6.9) (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
More healing logs...
They shock themselves on Captain's door. Still not in crit.
After this, there is another scuffle with cultists
[2023-09-17 15:13:57.313] ATTACK: Tqkres/(Firar Baba) stun attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 37.9) (Captain's Quarters (115,130,2))
(Notice the 37 health from the heals)
Ton of logs about the borg flashing people...
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.107] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) stun attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: -10.1) (Gateway (116,124,2))
[2023-09-17 15:14:47.987] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) attacked LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) with telescopic baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -15.1) (Gateway (116,124,2))
Cuff, strip and attack logs of this guy, up to
[2023-09-17 15:16:30.102] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has stripped LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) of the breath mask. (Command Hallway (114,127,2))
You have now spent 3 minutes dicking around in the cult infested command area, all of this time you can run away.
[2023-09-17 15:16:35.265] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
Here is the wraith referred to in the appeal. The RD is now at 100% health from the borg's healing.
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.079] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) grabbed LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -79.7) (Command Hallway (101,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.127] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 85) (Command Hallway (102,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.962] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) thrown LoonLaer/(Ivan Pavlovich) grab from tile in Command Hallway (99,127,2) towards tile at Command Hallway (103,126,2) (NEWHP: -79.7) (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:36.964] ATTACK: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) has thrown Ivan Pavlovich (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:37.360] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 70) (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:16:41.710] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 55) (Command Hallway (111,127,2))
At this point, the wraith starts a fight with the borg and stops caring about the RD for a while. The RD has never entered crit like he claims. As far as I see they could have ran away while the borg scuffle happened. I don't see any logs of anything that would knock them out either.
Then, 20 seconds later...
[2023-09-17 15:17:03.521] GAME-SAY: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) "i surrender" (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:04.054] ATTACK: SirNooben/(Wraith (829)) attacked Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) (NEWHP: 35) (Command Hallway (120,127,2))
[2023-09-17 15:17:06.701] GAME-EMOTE: Annihilite/(Hans Heisenberg) puts his hands on his head and falls to the ground, he surrenders! (Command Hallway (120,126,2))
The RD surrenders and 30 seconds later gets converted

I think that as the RD that hangs around in the cult infested area for 5 minutes for the purpose of fucking with cultists you don't have the excuse of fear RP to surrender instead of trying to run away.

I mean, they're fighting for a bit then he surrenders. It's possible he hit a wall and just thought that like; "hey I can't win anymore no point in fighting" so they gave up. There was some previous attempt made and it did seem kinda goodish faith (subjective)

Their perspective is a bit skewed sure- (I think this could be due to like, just how hectic the sitch was and them misremembering I know for certain that I misremember like, only a few bits of a situation and neglect others but in a genuine accident as my brain latches on the action important stuff and it all merges)

but that's just my 2 cents.