Terry Admin Seethes Over Successful Cult Recruitment Campaign

[Kendrickorium]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34955

[kieth4]

Admin just set the note to expire in 3 months and we're all happy

Not really, no. It's still factually incorrect and harsh.

Let me teach you about the art of the deal kiddo, also known as compromise.

Do I agree with this note/admins actions? Nope.

However, there is value in realising hey, this appeal has some issues that may make it hard for the headmins to just go noob note lift.

So then you look for the next best thing- an expiring note for 3 months in these circumstances works. It gets the issue across (whilst kinda going it's a grey area so just don't do it again like this.) But as it was such a grey area it vanishes in 3 months so the appealer just needs to make new habits in that period really.

Your goal should be to resolve this whilst factoring in all issues. Was the appeal slightly problematic? Yes. Fikou has expressed that this raises doubts for him so then you go alright- TBM kinda doesn't like this what could they potentially agree on? And then you come to your conclusion.

Being set in your ways is a surefire way to end up with nobody happy, and our goal is to get the best outcome for the player.

It took me a while to respond because I wanted to get some sleep beforehand, to make sure this post wasn't some weird thing I imagined. This is perhaps the weirdest take I've seen in a peanut thread, and it's combined with an obnoxiously condescending tone.
A compromise here would set an extremely worrying precedent- that this is a valid enforcement of the rules. That admins are allowed to action people for surrendering mid-fight to a conversion antag.
A compromise here also leaves a player punished who shouldn't have been, and that compromise still leaves in a risk of another admin using a wrongly placed, badly worded note against them.
A weak, lukewarm compromise is only going to make the banning admin happy, because they don't have to spend time and effort on it anymore.

If you don't want to compromise you're not going to get anywhere bro idk what else to say. There is very clearly enough doubt to go this isn't shrimply a clear cut case. So you've gotta work around it to get the best result.

I am very against this note but I also respect that the appeal + logs are enough for some people to be suspect.

which is cool but then I feel like you've gotta find the next best solution right

[Kendrickorium]

Kieth4 essayposting while punching himself in the stomach trying to knock the GM inside him unconscious.

nature is so beautiful

[datorangebottle]

If you don't want to compromise you're not going to get anywhere bro idk what else to say. There is very clearly enough doubt to go this isn't shrimply a clear cut case. So you've gotta work around it to get the best result.

I am very against this note but I also respect that the appeal + logs are enough for some people to be suspect.

which is cool but then I feel like you've gotta find the next best solution right

It's not that I never want to compromise, it's that I don't want a compromise here.
Sometimes compromise isn't the answer. A situation like this, where it can serve to inform future rules decisions, deserves decisive action. Amending or putting an expiration date on the note would be acceptable if this were a situation that deserved a note to begin with.

[iwishforducks]

i agree with orangebottle’s spirit almost entirely but kieth is sensible. both people are correct? how can this be?

[kieth4]

If you don't want to compromise you're not going to get anywhere bro idk what else to say. There is very clearly enough doubt to go this isn't shrimply a clear cut case. So you've gotta work around it to get the best result.

I am very against this note but I also respect that the appeal + logs are enough for some people to be suspect.

which is cool but then I feel like you've gotta find the next best solution right

It's not that I never want to compromise, it's that I don't want a compromise here.
Sometimes compromise isn't the answer. A situation like this, where it can serve to inform future rules decisions, deserves decisive action. Amending or putting an expiration date on the note would be acceptable if this were a situation that deserved a note to begin with.

where it can serve to inform future rules decisions, deserves decisive action. <quote by you

I find this to not actually be the case 99.9% of the time. Everything is too case by case basis

[TheBibleMelts]

essaypostermins copying what I said with more words to make me look bad smh fr fr

[Annihilite111]

I mean, they're fighting for a bit then he surrenders. It's possible he hit a wall and just thought that like; "hey I can't win anymore no point in fighting" so they gave up. There was some previous attempt made and it did seem kinda goodish faith (subjective)

Their perspective is a bit skewed sure- (I think this could be due to like, just how hectic the sitch was and them misremembering I know for certain that I misremember like, only a few bits of a situation and neglect others but in a genuine accident as my brain latches on the action important stuff and it all merges)

but that's just my 2 cents.

It's difficult to see good faith in an appeal when it contains wrong information- When you come to the forums you're expected to have already gathered up the view of the situation to present the best case for the admin and the rest of the team, who probably hasn't even seen the situation.
In contrast in this appeal you have a guy talking about stuff that didn't happen and doesn't really explain anything, like why he just stood there in command hallway for 20 seconds not doing anything before surrendering randomly.

Literal NRP behavior.

The appealer is right, just because they roleplay self-preservation instincts, but you, a head admin, treat your character as a game character instead of a roleplay character, does not they're in the wrong here.

cool jab bro?

Man i really didn't expect to see a 100 post peanut on my note appeal. Perhaps this isn't the place, but i'll answer your and other concerns i've read here to the best of my ability while my thoughts are still fresh-ish.
Firstly - and perhaps most importantly - my memory is very poor. Be it short or long term, it all floats together and details mix, which is why i typed out my appeal as soon as my conversation with Thunder in ahelps concluded. I don't really know how to use scrubby, and frankly just wanted to get it over with since writing appeals is probably the least fun thing you can do related to ss13.
I forgot to mention two pretty important details in my appeal: The cult were final summoning in the captains office (on Metastation), and i was literally fresh out of arrivals when the announcement came. We assaulted through the lower and leftmost airlocks, and i ended up sandwiched between the gateway wall and the wall to the captain's office (iirc more toward the corporate showroom side of the corridor).
As for why i stayed behind with the medborg, that was because i (or maybe the borg? I forgor) was dragging a deepcrit cultist which i'd decided i'd deconvert.
The whole 5 minute complaint strikes me as odd: We'd already killed or deepcrit all the cultists by the ritual site, and since everyone else left as if it was over i had no reason to think there was another fully armed goon squad ready for round two.
I don't remember exactly how the fight went down, but i do know that a wraith came out of cap's office and began attacking me.
At some point i get stunned (I remember it as being put into and healing out of crit, but since that apparently didn't happen i'm guessing i either got cult airlock/item stunned, funnyhanded or someone cast the hallucination spell? I can't think of anything else that'd cause it) and when i get up there's a clown car's worth of cultists around me.

Finally, i saw someone say that i ought to play better considering my vast amount of playtime. The simple answer to that is that game knowledge means very little without the mental hardware to use it well. When I encounter unexpected situations with no time to plan, my gameplay falls apart and i do stupid/suboptimal shit. Hans Heisenberg gets owned a LOT because of this, as i'm sure many of my fellow terryites can attest.

I don't see anything weird with my roleplay here. Assaulting a cult ritual site is just one of those things you do as crew because everyone dies if they finish their incantation, but when being faced with the choice of immediate, near certain death or certain death a little later, the vast majority of people will obey the man with the knife, even if they know they're being taken somewhere isolated.

I feel as though this post became less and less coherent, but i really need to sleep now. If i'm not making sense, ask.

[iwishforducks]

yeah that sounds good to me. pack it up folks and lift the note pls, thunder

[conrad]

lots and lots of relevant words

You should put this stuff on your appeal. This is the peanut thread. This info is actually relevant.

Finally, i saw someone say that i ought to play better considering my vast amount of playtime. The simple answer to that is that game knowledge means very little without the mental hardware to use it well. When I encounter unexpected situations with no time to plan, my gameplay falls apart and i do stupid/suboptimal shit. Hans Heisenberg gets owned a LOT because of this, as i'm sure many of my fellow terryites can attest.

Hi, someone here.
Thank you for reminding me of another reason I hate the "HOURS???" argument, and my apologies for using it.

[Archie700]

I put the information on his behalf

[kieth4]

I mean, they're fighting for a bit then he surrenders. It's possible he hit a wall and just thought that like; "hey I can't win anymore no point in fighting" so they gave up. There was some previous attempt made and it did seem kinda goodish faith (subjective)

Their perspective is a bit skewed sure- (I think this could be due to like, just how hectic the sitch was and them misremembering I know for certain that I misremember like, only a few bits of a situation and neglect others but in a genuine accident as my brain latches on the action important stuff and it all merges)

but that's just my 2 cents.

It's difficult to see good faith in an appeal when it contains wrong information- When you come to the forums you're expected to have already gathered up the view of the situation to present the best case for the admin and the rest of the team, who probably hasn't even seen the situation.
In contrast in this appeal you have a guy talking about stuff that didn't happen and doesn't really explain anything, like why he just stood there in command hallway for 20 seconds not doing anything before surrendering randomly.

Literal NRP behavior.

The appealer is right, just because they roleplay self-preservation instincts, but you, a head admin, treat your character as a game character instead of a roleplay character, does not they're in the wrong here.

cool jab bro?

Man i really didn't expect to see a 100 post peanut on my note appeal. Perhaps this isn't the place, but i'll answer your and other concerns i've read here to the best of my ability while my thoughts are still fresh-ish.
Firstly - and perhaps most importantly - my memory is very poor. Be it short or long term, it all floats together and details mix, which is why i typed out my appeal as soon as my conversation with Thunder in ahelps concluded. I don't really know how to use scrubby, and frankly just wanted to get it over with since writing appeals is probably the least fun thing you can do related to ss13.
I forgot to mention two pretty important details in my appeal: The cult were final summoning in the captains office (on Metastation), and i was literally fresh out of arrivals when the announcement came. We assaulted through the lower and leftmost airlocks, and i ended up sandwiched between the gateway wall and the wall to the captain's office (iirc more toward the corporate showroom side of the corridor).
As for why i stayed behind with the medborg, that was because i (or maybe the borg? I forgor) was dragging a deepcrit cultist which i'd decided i'd deconvert.
The whole 5 minute complaint strikes me as odd: We'd already killed or deepcrit all the cultists by the ritual site, and since everyone else left as if it was over i had no reason to think there was another fully armed goon squad ready for round two.
I don't remember exactly how the fight went down, but i do know that a wraith came out of cap's office and began attacking me.
At some point i get stunned (I remember it as being put into and healing out of crit, but since that apparently didn't happen i'm guessing i either got cult airlock/item stunned, funnyhanded or someone cast the hallucination spell? I can't think of anything else that'd cause it) and when i get up there's a clown car's worth of cultists around me.

Finally, i saw someone say that i ought to play better considering my vast amount of playtime. The simple answer to that is that game knowledge means very little without the mental hardware to use it well. When I encounter unexpected situations with no time to plan, my gameplay falls apart and i do stupid/suboptimal shit. Hans Heisenberg gets owned a LOT because of this, as i'm sure many of my fellow terryites can attest.

I don't see anything weird with my roleplay here. Assaulting a cult ritual site is just one of those things you do as crew because everyone dies if they finish their incantation, but when being faced with the choice of immediate, near certain death or certain death a little later, the vast majority of people will obey the man with the knife, even if they know they're being taken somewhere isolated.

I feel as though this post became less and less coherent, but i really need to sleep now. If i'm not making sense, ask.

Unrobust noob? I've changed my mind keep the note..

[Shellton(Mario)]

UNROBUST NOOB??? SEND HIM TO TERRY SECTOR TO TRAIN WITH THE ELITE

[TheBibleMelts]

it's time to go home, everyone.

[TheLoLSwat]

Every new term gets their character development appeal peanut early

Edit: it got lifted the term passed the first vibe check

[TheBibleMelts]

the votes have been changed to reflect fikous change in view with the added context.

[Shellton(Mario)]

it's time to go home, everyone.

NO, I MY BLADE DEMANDS BLOOD, ADMINS KILL THEE

[Kendrickorium]

A HAPPY SUCCESFUL END TO A PEANUT THREAD!

REMINDER TO GET YOUR THREAD TITLE JUDGES APPLICATION READY FOR THIS DECEMBER!