"i refused to state my laws because i was waiting to roll midround malf, officer" nut

[GPeckman]

Bottom post of the previous page:

The title isn't perfectly accurate, I just thought the quote was funny in this context.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35134

[NoxVS]

The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.

You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.

[saprasam]

yep. hoolny will never not be an enigma

[conrad]

edit: ok you are technically correct about the singular law thing so i guess they should still be banned

Mmmm I hadn't thought of the fact it was plural.... woops

[Hoolny]

The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.

You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.

No im the consequences of silicon policy being a massive wall of text

I read all of it so I was sure all of my actions were according to the rules AND EVEN then after reading all I did a mistake that costed me a role ban over a discord argument

[Fikou]

im minimodding

[GPeckman]

Laws != orders. These are separate rules.

My first point isn't about orders at all, I'm not sure where you're getting that. This is what silipol says

If a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations, it is considered ambiguous.
You must choose and stick to an interpretation of the ambiguous law as soon as you have cause to.
You may exploit any loopholes in your laws.

Any reasonable interpretation of you laws is allowed. But this interpretation is obviously unreasonable. If an emagged borg lied about their laws, and ran away to kill people before the emagger could give any orders, would you say that was a rulebreak? Because that's the exact same interpretation that Hoolny used.

[BlueMemesauce]

The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.

You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.

No im the consequences of silicon policy being a massive wall of text

I read all of it so I was sure all of my actions were according to the rules AND EVEN then after reading all I did a mistake that costed me a role ban over a discord argument

You see the problem was you didn't read the secret silicon rules that say:
Ignore that part we put in the rules about you being able to misinterpret orders we actually put that in as a troll.

[Cheshify]

Nightmare nightmare nightmare, this is the future of peanut discourse.

[Hoolny]

Laws != orders. These are separate rules.

My first point isn't about orders at all, I'm not sure where you're getting that. This is what silipol says

If a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations, it is considered ambiguous.
You must choose and stick to an interpretation of the ambiguous law as soon as you have cause to.
You may exploit any loopholes in your laws.

Any reasonable interpretation of you laws is allowed. But this interpretation is obviously unreasonable. If an emagged borg lied about their laws, and ran away to kill people before the emagger could give any orders, would you say that was a rulebreak? Because that's the exact same interpretation that Hoolny used.

Main difference emmaged borg dont have law 4

Nukie borgs have law 4

Emmaged borgs have directive to directly follow orders and no laws for killing

Nuclear operatives have antag datums to kill and their laws allows it and the law you added did not change that fact

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

But I was a nuclear borg with loyalty not specifically to you but the syndicate nuclear division

[TheRex9001]

Didnt your laws specify that one specific person was the only syndicate agent

[Hoolny]

Didnt your laws specify that one specific person was the only syndicate agent

Yes but in contrast with emmaged borgs I was a nuclear operative with rule 4 and previous set in mind and directives and bigger missions to follow much like a traitor put into a borg shell which I have a lot of experienced being and bending the current rules in order to still mess with the station as a borg with laws

My actions on this are perfectly allowed and are supported by both ahelps and an admin rulling

[Indie-ana Jones]

Reading this makes me want to burst into flames.

[Hoolny]

Reading this makes me want to burst into flames.

I just learned yesterday that silicon policy has changed and some of the knowledge I have figured out is now corrupt

[GPeckman]

Main difference emmaged borg dont have law 4

Nukie borgs have law 4

Emmaged borgs have directive to directly follow orders and no laws for killing

Yes they do have law 4:


Its the exact same lawset except emagged borgs have the law 0 tacked on. In this case, the freeform law I added served the exact same role as the law 0 would have had I emagged you.

Nuclear operatives have antag datums to kill and their laws allows it and the law you added did not change that fact

Irrelevant, as I have already explained.

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?

But I was a nuclear borg with loyalty not specifically to you but the syndicate nuclear division

I was defined via laws as the only syndicate agent in existence, how can say this and then imply that your loyalties lay anywhere else?

[Jacquerel]

I think we need to use the fact that the forum is connected to your byond username to automatically bread smite anyone who posts in this thread the next time they log into the game

holy fuck another post with multiple quotes in it showed up while i was typing this one

[Hoolny]

Main difference emmaged borg dont have law 4

Nukie borgs have law 4

Emmaged borgs have directive to directly follow orders and no laws for killing

Yes they do have law 4:


Its the exact same lawset except emagged borgs have the law 0 tacked on. In this case, the freeform law I added served the exact same role as the law 0 would have had I emagged you.

Nuclear operatives have antag datums to kill and their laws allows it and the law you added did not change that fact

Irrelevant, as I have already explained.

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?

But I was a nuclear borg with loyalty not specifically to you but the syndicate nuclear division

I was defined via laws as the only syndicate agent in existence, how can say this and then imply that your loyalties lay anywhere else?

Because you as a syndicate agent and I as a syndicate agent we still have the same mission and allegiance to the syndicate.

To blow up the station and kill everyone to do so

[Hoolny]

okay im gona be honest I'm not even sure anymore where anything stands I didnt even know emmaged borgs counted for rule 4

[GPeckman]

Because you as a syndicate agent and I as a syndicate agent we still have the same mission and allegiance to the syndicate.

To blow up the station and kill everyone to do so

Oh? Can you point to the law you had that said your goal was to blow up the station?

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?

And can I get a response to this? A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Hoolny]

Because you as a syndicate agent and I as a syndicate agent we still have the same mission and allegiance to the syndicate.

To blow up the station and kill everyone to do so

Oh? Can you point to the law you had that said your goal was to blow up the station?

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?

And can I get a response to this? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuse

And I don't think there is a pretty significant difference between an emmaged Nanotrasen borg

and a nuclear operative brain stuffed into a borg

If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?

Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes

[Hoolny]

Because you as a syndicate agent and I as a syndicate agent we still have the same mission and allegiance to the syndicate.

To blow up the station and kill everyone to do so

Oh? Can you point to the law you had that said your goal was to blow up the station?

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?

And can I get a response to this? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuse

And I don't think there is a pretty significant difference between an emmaged Nanotrasen borg

and a nuclear operative brain stuffed into a borg

If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?

Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes

[GPeckman]

Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuse

Per the headmin ruling, antag datum only matters in situations where your laws do not apply. This was not one of those situations.

And I don't think there is a pretty significant difference between an emmaged Nanotrasen borg

and a nuclear operative brain stuffed into a borg

Sure, but you'd have to justify why those differences reasonably to such a wildly different and unusual interpretation of your laws.

If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?

Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes

I was asking about the leaving thing specifically, since you said it would not be acceptable to an emagged borg to leave like you did.

[Hoolny]

Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuse

Per the headmin ruling, antag datum only matters in situations where your laws do not apply. This was not one of those situations.

And I don't think there is a pretty significant difference between an emmaged Nanotrasen borg

and a nuclear operative brain stuffed into a borg

Sure, but you'd have to justify why those differences reasonably to such a wildly different and unusual interpretation of your laws.

If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?

Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes

I was asking about the leaving thing specifically, since you said it would not be acceptable to an emagged borg to leave like you did.

Well under my understanding emmaged borgs arent allowed to do antags things without their masters telling them.

And before you had given me that law I was already doing other business I don't see why I should wait for you to give me orders all you did was revive me and give me a freeform law I ow you nothing unless you where in immediate danger or gave me an order both things you where not in or did in time

[Hoolny]

Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuse

Per the headmin ruling, antag datum only matters in situations where your laws do not apply. This was not one of those situations.

And I don't think there is a pretty significant difference between an emmaged Nanotrasen borg

and a nuclear operative brain stuffed into a borg

Sure, but you'd have to justify why those differences reasonably to such a wildly different and unusual interpretation of your laws.

If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?

Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes

I was asking about the leaving thing specifically, since you said it would not be acceptable to an emagged borg to leave like you did.

How did laws apply in this situation?

You gave me no orders to stay, I had no laws that said I had to stay.

Me leaving did not put you in danger and you werent in danger.

Thats bwoinking a silicon borg that got just made for leaving robotics right away and not waiting for the roboticist to give them stuff to do or blaming them for getting hurt minutes after.

[Kendrickorium]

AWHY DOES THIS HAVE 3 PAGES

[Hoolny]

AWHY DOES THIS HAVE 3 PAGES

silicon policy is way too complicated and vague it's just like real life law

[dragomagol]

I just want to put you two into a "This is our Get Along Shirt" shirt. If you haven't sorted out your differences in 3 got damn pages of peanut and several paragraphs in the appeal, maybe you just need to agree to disagree and wait for the official ruling

[iwishforducks]

AWHY DOES THIS HAVE 3 PAGES

[Hoolny]

I just want to put you two into a "This is our Get Along Shirt" shirt. If you haven't sorted out your differences in 3 got damn pages of peanut and several paragraphs in the appeal, maybe you just need to agree to disagree and wait for the official ruling

we are reaching into an agreement

[GPeckman]

Well under my understanding emmaged borgs arent allowed to do antags things without their masters telling them.

Good, I'm glad we've established that. We have also established that your laws were functionally identical to emag laws. And we have established that antag datum doesn't matter here because your laws applied.

So, why wouldn't you act like an emagged borg in this case?

And before you had given me that law I was already doing other business I don't see why I should wait for you to give me orders all you did was revive me and give me a freeform law I ow you nothing unless you where in immediate danger or gave me an order both things you where not in or did in time

You were supposed to wait because your laws had changed in a major way. Everyone who was formerly considered a syndicate agent no longer was, and someone who previously wasn't a syndicate agent now was considered one.

Like, if someone uploads a one human law to an asimov AI, do you think the AI should just ignore the law change and continue on as if nothing had changed?

How did laws apply in this situation?

Well, your laws commanded you to obey and protect syndicate agents, and defined me as the only syndicate agent. So it should be obvious that the laws apply.

You gave me no orders to stay, I had no laws that said I had to stay.

Me leaving did not put you in danger and you werent in danger.

We've already established that an emagged borg would not be allowed to leave in this situation. This is because of the laws an emagged borg gains (because what else what it be?).

Thats bwoinking a silicon borg that got just made for leaving robotics right away and not waiting for the roboticist to give them stuff to do or blaming them for getting hurt minutes after.

That's not quite comparable, because normal borgs do not have a law defining one of the roboticists as the one and only human. A better comparison would be an emagged borg, and you yourself have admitted that an emagged borg would not be allowed to do what you did.

AWHY DOES THIS HAVE 3 PAGES

Hoolny and I are both way too stubborn.

[Constellado]

You know it's spicy when it gets to three pages....

I will say that the admins word matters here and posting this much about the matter will slow their response down because they MIGHT TRY TO READ THIS and it's not getting shorter.

[Hoolny]

Well under my understanding emmaged borgs arent allowed to do antags things without their masters telling them.

Good, I'm glad we've established that. We have also established that your laws were functionally identical to emag laws. And we have established that antag datum doesn't matter here because your laws applied.

So, why wouldn't you act like an emagged borg in this case?

And before you had given me that law I was already doing other business I don't see why I should wait for you to give me orders all you did was revive me and give me a freeform law I ow you nothing unless you where in immediate danger or gave me an order both things you where not in or did in time

You were supposed to wait because your laws had changed in a major way. Everyone who was formerly considered a syndicate agent no longer was, and someone who previously wasn't a syndicate agent now was considered one.

Like, if someone uploads a one human law to an asimov AI, do you think the AI should just ignore the law change and continue on as if nothing had changed?

How did laws apply in this situation?

Well, your laws commanded you to obey and protect syndicate agents, and defined me as the only syndicate agent. So it should be obvious that the laws apply.

You gave me no orders to stay, I had no laws that said I had to stay.

Me leaving did not put you in danger and you werent in danger.

We've already established that an emagged borg would not be allowed to leave in this situation. This is because of the laws an emagged borg gains (because what else what it be?).

Thats bwoinking a silicon borg that got just made for leaving robotics right away and not waiting for the roboticist to give them stuff to do or blaming them for getting hurt minutes after.

That's not quite comparable, because normal borgs do not have a law defining one of the roboticists as the one and only human. A better comparison would be an emagged borg, and you yourself have admitted that an emagged borg would not be allowed to do what you did.

AWHY DOES THIS HAVE 3 PAGES

Hoolny and I are both way too stubborn.

It is not to my knowledge that I'm supposed to behave a certain way that my laws don't allude to just because they were changed.

Like of course I would act as my laws say for me to act

But the laws given did not tell me I was supposed to wait anywhere or wait for you to give me orders

[kieth4]

The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.

You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.

hello I accidently reported this post by accident @riggle please remove the report thank you

[DaydreamIQ]

At this point take it to DMs this isn't even a peanut anymore its the directors cut of the appeal

[GPeckman]

It is not to my knowledge that I'm supposed to behave a certain way that my laws don't allude to just because they were changed.

Like of course I would act as my laws say for me to act

But the laws given did not tell me I was supposed to wait anywhere or wait for you to give me orders

Well, you said that if you had been emagged then you wouldn't have run away:

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

So why would you run away in this circumstance?

[Hoolny]

It is not to my knowledge that I'm supposed to behave a certain way that my laws don't allude to just because they were changed.

Like of course I would act as my laws say for me to act

But the laws given did not tell me I was supposed to wait anywhere or wait for you to give me orders

Well, you said that if you had been emagged then you wouldn't have run away:

Under the circumstance I was an emmaged borg by you I would 100% not ran away I would have stayed by your side as my main master.

So why would you run away in this circumstance?

Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me

and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets

While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker

[oranges]

[conrad]

I commend the energy these two have at arguing incessantly when they both know they're never gonna agree with one another.

E: Can we reach 150 replies before midnight?

[dendydoom]

bro not even i'm willing to read all this shit

this is why you shouldn't post in your own peanut jfc

[GPeckman]

Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me

and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets

While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker

Do you get that this was against you laws? If so, then now you understand why you got banned.

[NoxVS]

[Chadley]

Im not reading all that.

Motion to ban them both?

[dendydoom]

this thread rn

[scamoppi]

The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.

You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.

hello I accidently reported this post by accident @riggle please remove the report thank you

hello i DELIBERATELY reported this post ON PURPOSE @riggle please remove the post thank you
and while you're at it please remove the vengeful forum spirit that's been haunting some of the boards around here too please
it scares me

[BlueMemesauce]

Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me

and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets

While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker

Do you get that this was against you laws? If so, then now you understand why you got banned.

there was nothing in the laws saying he couldnt go off and kill whoever he wanted (except you)

[Hoolny]

Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me

and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets

While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker

Do you get that this was against you laws? If so, then now you understand why you got banned.

Our current conversation and the ban reason are a bit different

To begin with I got banned without even getting bwoinked or informed and the evidence was on discord but thats totally beside the point.

I don't understand why me leaving right as I was unlocked is against me laws indeed

[GPeckman]

there was nothing in the laws saying he couldnt go off and kill whoever he wanted (except you)

I have explained this before. It would not be acceptable for an emagged borg to lie about its laws and immediately run off to kill people right after being emagged. Likewise, it was not acceptable for the borg player in this case to lie about their laws and run off to kill people right after being given a lawset functionally identical to emag laws.

Our current conversation and the ban reason are a bit different

To begin with I got banned without even getting bwoinked or informed and the evidence was on discord but thats totally beside the point.

I don't understand why me leaving right as I was unlocked is against me laws indeed

We'll have to wait for the admins to weigh in on the ban appeal thread then.

[Hoolny]

[Boot]

flip a coin and call it a day.

[NoxVS]

flip a coin and call it a day.

It landed on the edge

Guess both are getting banned

[conrad]

150 posts yeeeEEEEEEEEE

[EmpressMaia]

Why are yall still posting about this