Having a Crate time ban appeal nut

[iwishforducks]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35286

[iwishforducks]

They made a wrong statement, on numerous accounts,

or claim I was not being an asshole—because, in all honesty, I probably was.

Looking good

[Capsandi]

I love this formatting!

[RedBaronFlyer]

I kind of get that Viro's thing about doxxing could be taken as merely a joke but doxxing always seemed like a really, REALLY, stupid thing to joke about.

I fully get that I'm biased because I am not exactly a fan of Viro, for a laundry list of reasons, but I am curious to see if there are any other examples of people making a joke similar to this getting banned as precedent.

[BonChoi]

I kind of get that Viro's thing about doxxing could be taken as merely a joke but doxxing always seemed like a really, REALLY, stupid thing to joke about.

I fully get that I'm biased because I am not exactly a fan of Viro, for a laundry list of reasons, but I am curious to see if there are any other examples of people making a joke similar to this getting banned as precedent.

I was under the impression that you are not allowed to joke about it in any circumstance and that it's probably better to not utter that word in any sentence in this community, lest you face a ban for violating /tg/Station's Discord rule #5.

[oranges]

I kind of get that Viro's thing about doxxing could be taken as merely a joke but doxxing always seemed like a really, REALLY, stupid thing to joke about.

I fully get that I'm biased because I am not exactly a fan of Viro, for a laundry list of reasons, but I am curious to see if there are any other examples of people making a joke similar to this getting banned as precedent.

I was under the impression that you are not allowed to joke about it in any circumstance and that it's probably better to not utter that word in any sentence in this community, lest you face a ban for violating /tg/Station's Discord rule #5.

I feel like that shit is a lie tbh, it was used in one specific case but the whole it's an instant blacklist thing isn't evne true it's very dependent on who you are and who saw the message.

[blackdav123]

to me "you're lucky i dont doxx people anymore" sounds like "you're lucky this hasnt escalated to a point where im willing to doxx you yet"

[RedBaronFlyer]

The more I'm thinking about this the more I have issues with it. I don't really lean either way. Viro is an asshole, and the doxxing comment was really stupid, but through text it's a bit hard to interpret. I feel like it might get overturned but IDK. I'm gonna try and read up on some previous bans of a similar nature to get a feel of things.

[Thranos]

The dude's so violently, caustically toxic that people outright avoid interacting with him just to avoid him screeching like a wild ape as he types up ego-tripping rants with one hand and violently zerks his zenis with the other.
Even being another spriter doesn't save people from the onslaught of elitism, as he'll start citing 'color theory' and 'well how many PRs do YOU have' in order to maintain his perception that he's the ultimate being in the spriterbus for the niche 2D atmospherics simulator game.

He blatantly sets things up as ragebait so he can bask in the (negative) attention, mock people indiscriminately, try to lord it over the "dumb whitenames" who object, and then act like god's gift to TG if his work gets merged. He's on thin ice on the git, banned from the discord, and loathed by a majority of the playerbase.

I give him maybe six months (being generous here) before he gets himself ejected from TG as a whole, even if this gets lifted. He's just that incapable of not being an absolute tower of dicks.

[DATAxPUNGED]

Viro's always had this huge ego, and he seems to love pissing people off? Even on the github comment that he said sorry to Moff he was baiting the Player's Club

And this sucks ass, the few times I've interacted with them OUTSIDE of sprites, it was pleasant (except that time he said something transphobic but he clearly didn't know it was and regretted immediately)

But what truly sucks about his attitudes is his PRs. Dude CANNOT take criticism. He will go at lengths in his elitism and deny any constructive feedback, just look at what happened in the crates PR. This one wasn't much better!





Except this time there wasn't someone to enable an argument outta these.

And not even that, he just refuses to fucking finish them, too. Cargo PR had still half of the department in original colors, which had to be fixed by someone else later. Crate PR didn't adjust the MULEbot either, I'm not sure why spritetainers enable this. IIRC the wizard PR got stale because a spritetainer asked him to make the hat, too, and he just didn't bother. I'm bot sure why these are merged unfinished, tbh.
I genuinely just say that they change and grow as a person.

[Jacquerel]

If his appeal is purely on the basis of the doxxing thing I can't disagree with him, if we are going to extend the benefit of the doubt that moff clearly was not being passive aggressive he also clearly was not threatening to doxx anyone.
He's still incapable of properly interacting with others though.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I kind of get that Viro's thing about doxxing could be taken as merely a joke but doxxing always seemed like a really, REALLY, stupid thing to joke about.

I fully get that I'm biased because I am not exactly a fan of Viro, for a laundry list of reasons, but I am curious to see if there are any other examples of people making a joke similar to this getting banned as precedent.

I make my stance on the guy extremely clear at all times, which I bring up as important context for this bit.

I don't think it was a doxxing threat. From what we saw elsewhere, it seemed like it. But with the context surrounding it, I can see what was meant. I don't think I'd have said it myself but the autism part of my brain can kinda see it. People are bringing up that growing as a person is good, so he explains the kind of person he used to be, in an attempt to show that he is trying to grow and change from who he used to be.

Absolutely fuckstupid to say, but not something inherently malicious, and if it's enough time after the argument stopped, I could see it.

Hell, I have a Note myself (was a ban at the time) for saying something fuck awful about someone to someone else where that person could see, without thinking of what it would mean to the person in question.

No, I don't want to talk about it because what I did disgusts me and I'd rather leave it in the past. So while I won't say one way or another as far as Rule Enforcement goes, I at least don't think they were (morally) trying to threaten to doxx Moth.

That said, still a gigantic cunt, still should be banned, ripbozo, etc etc.

[CPTANT]

I disagree, it was definitely a doxing threat. If you are having a tantrum and blatantly insulting someone then saying they should be glad they didn't do something that is in fact 100% a threat. Give me one other reason someone would bring that up while throwing a tantrum.

"You are so lucky, in the past I would have shot your dog" (Totally not a threat).

If his appeal is purely on the basis of the doxxing thing I can't disagree with him, if we are going to extend the benefit of the doubt that moff clearly was not being passive aggressive he also clearly was not threatening to doxx anyone.
He's still incapable of properly interacting with others though.

Disagree. Moff didn't say anything hostile whatsoever, while Viro did it repeatedly and threw a huge tantrum while making the doxing remark. Also even if you think Moff was passive aggressive that was so minor and in a post with actual feedback that it doesn't matter in the first place. Doxing threats are a huge dick move.

[scamoppi]

did they ever even say anything along the lines of "you're lucky i dont doxx people anymore" or are people just game of telephoning sentences into whatever they want them to be?

[BonChoi]

More and more time goes by and I just have a feeling that MothNyan wasn't intending to be condescending towards Viro, it's just that they probably thought that if they talked to Viro that way that hopefully someway somehow Viro wouldn't treat them like shit for their suggestions, but as we can see it had the opposite effect, and Viro absolutely blew the fuck up. I think that their perma should be replaced with a timed ban, maybe a couple months or so to allow them to cool the hell down because for right now I think that they may actually be too "dangerous" to interact with on Discord in any reasonable manner.

[CPTANT]

did they ever even say anything along the lines of "you're lucky i dont doxx people anymore" or are people just game of telephoning sentences into whatever they want them to be?

https://discord.com/channels/3268221442 ... 1555713105

Viro — gisteren om 13:05
potato if you think this is bad you should've seen me 6 years ago

Viro — gisteren om 13:05
I would've gone through the slur dictionary by now back then

Viro — gisteren om 13:06
tbh back then I probably would've just doxxed this guy for pissing me off that much

Viro — gisteren om 13:06
which I did like
once
years and years ago
(bad thing)

[Prussen]

This guy should have been blacklisted, you cannot bring up the fact that you would you have doxxed someone if they had the inconvenience of criticizing you 6 years ago and believe that it would have not been perceived as a threat.

I also don’t believe it simply “slipped out of his mind” and that he was just innocently discussing his own self improvement…

The gitposter brought well formatted and worded constructive criticism and according to viro himself he could handle it, but we all know complementary colours obviously don’t exist and that critique is completely misguided.

[bluedino1025]

I'm still waiting for someone to remove the forced boobs on the sec jumpskirt he sprote, I asked about it and, to paraphrase, I was told to cope

[conrad]

Excellent title.

[Pepper]

I'm still waiting for someone to remove the forced boobs on the sec jumpskirt he sprote, I asked about it and, to paraphrase, I was told to cope

They should be made bigger

[DATAxPUNGED]

I'm still waiting for someone to remove the forced boobs on the sec jumpskirt he sprote, I asked about it and, to paraphrase, I was told to cope

Gonna extend them to every other clothing item in the game brb

[dendydoom]

boobie

[dirk_mcblade]

Lmao

[Googles_Hands]

Quality Control blacklist him for the good of himself and the community, I have zero confidence that he'll improve.
He can continue being a caustic asshole downstream on Skyrat.

[GPeckman]

I still don't know why Viro hasn't been gitbanned yet.

[Jacquerel]

boobie

We have hit sufficient posts that this is now an official breasts thread

[scamoppi]

did they ever even say anything along the lines of "you're lucky i dont doxx people anymore" or are people just game of telephoning sentences into whatever they want them to be?

https://discord.com/channels/3268221442 ... 1555713105

Viro — gisteren om 13:05
potato if you think this is bad you should've seen me 6 years ago

Viro — gisteren om 13:05
I would've gone through the slur dictionary by now back then

Viro — gisteren om 13:06
tbh back then I probably would've just doxxed this guy for pissing me off that much

Viro — gisteren om 13:06
which I did like
once
years and years ago
(bad thing)

They were talking to somebody else at that point though. I don't think the charitable interpretation of it being a conversation about how bad they used to be is entirely out of the question. Still not a great thing to say given the circumstances though.

also speaking of boobies

NSFW:

awooga

why do they have blue feet that's pretty cool

[Vekter]

I still don't know why Viro hasn't been gitbanned yet.

Jaq threatened to do it last night before Viro was banned from the Discord.

[Ziiro]

yeah no keep this guy gone. Elitist, toxic asshole who is trying to away with threatening to dox someone because of word choice.

Excellent title.

100% agree, certified banger

[GPeckman]

I still don't know why Viro hasn't been gitbanned yet.

Jaq threatened to do it last night before Viro was banned from the Discord.

Why does being banned from discord mean that Viro can't also be banned from github too? That's the part I don't get.

[dirk_mcblade]

Moth wrote a thesis about what was wrong with those lockers and got called condescending for it. Pearls before swine.

[datorangebottle]

NSFW:

awooga

why do they have blue feet that's pretty cool

Nice Tits.

[RedBaronFlyer]

This is going to be a mess of thoughts so I'ma spoil it:

Spoiler:

I am a bit bummed that Viro left because it's clear they had dedication
I just don't think their color scheme or designs fit the rest of TG well
it's a shame they never really adjusted them because Viro's sprites can look good on TG with the right tweaks

Viro was 100% baiting people with the github thing
at the same time people have been incredibly hostile towards Viro
simultaneously Viro has been intentionally inflammatory and hostile
I am unsure who started it first but it's pretty clear both sides weren't going to budge, ever
I am unsure if Viro actually got special treatment as they were a regular contributor, but from a players perspective it looked like it due to the extremely fast merging of the crates + the merging of the cargo recolor + redesign when they didn't even recolor everything
this, combined with Viro acting like gods gift to the earth whenever a PR got merged, being incredibly condescending towards players, and the design/coloring change that most of their resprites brought, led to them being detested by a lot of people

their behavior towards Moff was far out of line
Moffs comments could be taken as being condescending, but I am 100% sure they meant well
Moffs thing about the color theory is understandably insulting from the perspective of an experienced spriter but I do not imagine they knew Viro was an experienced spriter, and I imagine they would have left such a comment on anyone's PR
at the same time TG is filled to the brim with full on aggressive to the point that people interpret being overly polite and stepping on eggshells to be a slight against them
Viro has a fragile ego and anything but praise gets them spitting acid, especially from users who haven't sprited, have sprited less than them, or aren't a spritetainer or sprite buddy.

the doxxing thing is important to understand in context because Viro didn't full on say to Moff "Be lucky I don't doxx like I used to", as Moff had long since left the sprite channel, they were talking to their spriter buddies
at the same time talking about doxxing at all, and especially stating that you had done it in the past to people who pissed you off is INCREDIBLY stupid, especially within such a short timespan of ranting against a person and insulting them repeatedly

it's a cultural norm at this point for contributors look down at the pl*yers and for the players to look down at the c*ders/sp*rters
both of these attitudes are self defeating, destructive, and toxic
I really wish the administration on both sides would try and clamp down on this, but I am unsure how it could be done
people posting "viro is gone" celebration pics frustrated me to be honest

I wish players were less toxic towards contributors
I wish contributors were less toxic and demeaning to players
I wish people would actually have good faith debates as opposed to both sides acting like fucking idiots
I wish we had old mosins back and old cargo back tbh

[CPTANT]

This is going to be a mess of thoughts so I'ma spoil it:

Spoiler:

I am a bit bummed that Viro left because it's clear they had dedication
I just don't think their color scheme or designs fit the rest of TG well
it's a shame they never really adjusted them because Viro's sprites can look good on TG with the right tweaks

Viro was 100% baiting people with the github thing
at the same time people have been incredibly hostile towards Viro
simultaneously Viro has been intentionally inflammatory and hostile
I am unsure who started it first but it's pretty clear both sides weren't going to budge, ever
I am unsure if Viro actually got special treatment as they were a regular contributor, but from a players perspective it looked like it due to the extremely fast merging of the crates + the merging of the cargo recolor + redesign when they didn't even recolor everything
this, combined with Viro acting like gods gift to the earth whenever a PR got merged, being incredibly condescending towards players, and the design/coloring change that most of their resprites brought, led to them being detested by a lot of people

their behavior towards Moff was far out of line
Moffs comments could be taken as being condescending, but I am 100% sure they meant well
Moffs thing about the color theory is understandably insulting from the perspective of an experienced spriter but I do not imagine they knew Viro was an experienced spriter, and I imagine they would have left such a comment on anyone's PR
at the same time TG is filled to the brim with full on aggressive to the point that people interpret being overly polite and stepping on eggshells to be a slight against them
Viro has a fragile ego and anything but praise gets them spitting acid, especially from users who haven't sprited, have sprited less than them, or aren't a spritetainer or sprite buddy.

the doxxing thing is important to understand in context because Viro didn't full on say to Moff "Be lucky I don't doxx like I used to", as Moff had long since left the sprite channel, they were talking to their spriter buddies
at the same time talking about doxxing at all, and especially stating that you had done it in the past to people who pissed you off is INCREDIBLY stupid, especially within such a short timespan of ranting against a person and insulting them repeatedly

it's a cultural norm at this point for contributors look down at the pl*yers and for the players to look down at the c*ders/sp*rters
both of these attitudes are self defeating, destructive, and toxic
I really wish the administration on both sides would try and clamp down on this, but I am unsure how it could be done
people posting "viro is gone" celebration pics frustrated me to be honest

I wish players were less toxic towards contributors
I wish contributors were less toxic and demeaning to players
I wish people would actually have good faith debates as opposed to both sides acting like fucking idiots
I wish we had old mosins back and old cargo back tbh

Honestly that was incredibly well put for a mess of thoughts.

[oranges]

I wish we had old mosins back and old cargo back tbh

toxic post

[Critawakets]

So they did an apology post on the github and said they'd leave for months to collect themselves... Only to immediately want to appeal on the discord they blew up on?

Mate, I don't know how to say this, but I don't think they were very sincere on the github about improving.

[mrmelbert]

I think they posted the appeal before the apology.

[Critawakets]

Yeah looking back, seems they did the apology about ~3 hours after posting the appeal. Still doesn't give great looks, but that does make them look a lot better than the alternative.

[Vekter]

I still don't know why Viro hasn't been gitbanned yet.

Jaq threatened to do it last night before Viro was banned from the Discord.

Why does being banned from discord mean that Viro can't also be banned from github too? That's the part I don't get.

It doesn't, but most of what Viro was doing that was reprehensible occurred on the Discord and not the GIthub. They were warned by a maintainer for rage-baiting in the PR title/body and they fixed that part.

It would be like us banning someone from the servers for being a dickhead on the forums.

[Jacquerel]

Yeah looking back, seems they did the apology about ~3 hours after posting the appeal. Still doesn't give great looks, but that does make them look a lot better than the alternative.

as far as I can tell he's also not asking to be unbanned he just doesn't want "made a threat of doxxing" on his record as he does not think that he did that

[GPeckman]

It doesn't, but most of what Viro was doing that was reprehensible occurred on the Discord and not the GIthub. They were warned by a maintainer for rage-baiting in the PR title/body and they fixed that part.

It would be like us banning someone from the servers for being a dickhead on the forums.

That does make sense. It still seems a little unreasonable to me that the flamebaiting is only worth a warning while "good riddance" gets an instant git permaban, but I guess the maintainers see things differently. Thank you for explaining.

[Jacquerel]

I still don't know why Viro hasn't been gitbanned yet.

Jaq threatened to do it last night before Viro was banned from the Discord.

Why does being banned from discord mean that Viro can't also be banned from github too? That's the part I don't get.

Cards on the table;
I woke up and saw this exchange had happened overnight and was immediately furious.
However, I personally have never interacted with Viro in a moderator capacity and didn't (still don't) have any idea what previous action has been taken towards him by the sprite leads (which I am not). Maintainers are not generally speaking chosen for their capacities as social moderator, but also the guy has clearly had too many chances and was provably making the environment worse for other contributors so something had to give.
So despite feeling like I was stepping outside my juristiction a little (I wasn't really, there isn't such thing) I decided to tell Viro in no uncertain terms that if I saw anything like that again, completely intending to follow through and potentially start a fight with other maintainers by closing his PRs if anything happened again (tbh probably there would not have been one). Also investigate whether I am capable of gitbanning someone because I've never had to figure that out, or if I would have to ask someone else to do it.
But, and I won't be particularly mad if you think this is negligently lenient, I did not want to do this without giving him one warning first.

Unsurprisingly he took some objection to the idea that he was doing anything wrong, after which me and Potato then had like a 30 minute conversation with him trying to get him to understand what the problem was with his attitude, outcome unclear, until he went to bed. I'll be frank here in saying that probably it was only thgvr partially agreeing with us which made any impact on him at all but who can say. The hope we had was that he would reflect on this and maybe be slightly different in the morning, and if not then I would escalate to something else. I figured that if he wasn't going to make any effort to make a difference I would find out within about 48 hours anyway.
However while he was asleep the discord mods independently discovered what was up and banned him from Discord anyway (a call I certainly won't disagree with).

Nothing here means he couldn't be gitbanned, but as I personally don't think that the "he threatened to dox people" part is credible or important (he literally didn't) I don't see what the point is in doing it now.
He already by his own admission isn't going to be contributing for some time, and already closed the PR he had open. Unless he was lying in his comment (which would be easily remedied if so) then he is no longer actually a risk to driving away other contributors (which is the part I care about).

If he comes back in a few months and then returns to his old tricks then by all means I will do what I can (quite a lot) to ensure that his work does not find its way into the codebase (if I even have time to do that before someone else has) but that hasn't happened yet.

It doesn't, but most of what Viro was doing that was reprehensible occurred on the Discord and not the GIthub. They were warned by a maintainer for rage-baiting in the PR title/body and they fixed that part.

It would be like us banning someone from the servers for being a dickhead on the forums.

That does make sense. It still seems a little unreasonable to me that the flamebaiting is only worth a warning while "good riddance" gets an instant git permaban, but I guess the maintainers see things differently. Thank you for explaining.

Also Jimmyl was actually only banned for like a few hours he's already not banned any more.

[GPeckman]

Snip

That does put things into context, thank you.

[iwishforducks]

snip

this was a really good read. thankyou for the insight. and im glad to see his behavior properly addressed

[Constellado]

I think there is going to be even newer crates being put in.

A whole new set of crates all new. They are not done though, and was just testmerged for a short moment once I think.

[Capsandi]

I'm still waiting for someone to remove the forced boobs on the sec jumpskirt he sprote, I asked about it and, to paraphrase, I was told to cope

The /tg/station project, also known as the /tg/station codebase, is distinguished among other ss13 projects in its focus on intuitive design. Not only does the /tg/station project utilize industry vetted methods including 'tooltips' and 'just giving up and explaining gameplay mechanics wholesale during gameplay'; the /tg/station project leverages the uniquely cultivated narrative setting of 'Space Station 13' to unintrusively guide players in the complex and often obtuse bullshit merged daily into the codebase. The /tg/station project is able to do this due to its niche cult following lending designers the ability to know the end user's thought process almost to a tee.
It is for this reason that the /tg/station design staff, in the name of intuitive design, has decided to adjust the HOS uniform sprites to remove any notion of an underlying chest, while adjusting the rest of the security uniform sprites to compensate. This is done to communicate to the end user the position of the HOS role as a sadistic, callous dictator of their own department in the most efficient and unintrusive way possible. The /tg/station design leads came to this conclusion after leveraging their intimate knowledge of the end user and finding that most players of the /tg/station server project (not to be confounded with the TGS project) are immensely socially stunted and incapable of understanding any relationship between women which is not dictated primarily by chest envy. It is for similar reasons that a user playing as a male HOS will find that their character begins the game with a height below 6 feet, as most end users see the relationships of men dictated primarily by their relative height and the presence of a napoleon complex in authority figures.

[Thranos]

I'm still waiting for someone to remove the forced boobs on the sec jumpskirt he sprote, I asked about it and, to paraphrase, I was told to cope

[extremely long shitpost rant about the HoS being a femcel/manlet]

Don't let MSO see that one.

But yeah some of the other sprites they've posted are even more uh... in that vein.
I didn't even know it was possibly to convey a cameltoe with that few pixels, and I wish I still didn't.
(The Syndicate Sniper Skinsuit Incident)

[RedBaronFlyer]

Someone responded to my post but they deleted it, bummer.

[Capsandi]

Someone responded to my post but they deleted it, bummer.

I think its sort of fucked up to do so im going to snitch, dirk_mcblade routinely emptyquotes you and deletes his posts just 2 fuck with you

[RedBaronFlyer]

Someone responded to my post but they deleted it, bummer.

I think its sort of fucked up to do so im going to snitch, dirk_mcblade routinely emptyquotes you and deletes his posts just 2 fuck with you

Nah it was Prussen.