The Era of Virology is Over..

[Chocodemon]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/79849

TLDR:

This PR removes features related to virology, which are:

• The Virologist
  Advanced Diseases. These are the custom diseases that the virologist can create or that can be created through events or miasma etc
  Sentient Disease: The antagonist, that uses advanced diseases to function.
  Advanced disease event: The event that spawns a random combination of symptoms on a disease and gives it to a few players.

This PR does not remove the following:

• Simple diseases. Pierrots throat, beesease, flu, cold, etc
  The pandemic. It's still needed to make cures against the above simple viruses
  Simple disease spawning event
  Simple disease crates
  Floor virusses. The carpeliosis, tritgas etc viruses were technically advanced, but have been converted to simple diseases.
  Virology clothing and outfits.You can still buy their clothes or have their vendrobes mapped in.

I missed the initial discussion so I wanted to make a post here about it to see other's thoughts and such. Personally I'm quite sad that heal viruses will no longer be a thing but it's a small price to pay for no more miasma/adv. diseases.

Edit: Nevermind I guess it isn't happening

[Jacquerel]

I won't miss it
I might miss sentient disease which is a fun idea which has always been shit, and maybe can be redesigned to work better once it's not based on a rotten foundation

[nianjiilical]

this an L for sentient disease but a W for madagascar

[warbluke]

Does this mean we get Fish Doctor added?

[Googles_Hands]

Massive nerf for xenos.

[Chocodemon]

Massive nerf for xenos.

I suppose I'll never have to worry about toxin healing symptoms turning slimepeople into nuggets anymore.

[Googles_Hands]

Massive nerf for xenos.

I suppose I'll never have to worry about toxin healing symptoms turning slimepeople into nuggets anymore.

I actually meant the secluded monkeys making the perfect starting base for Xenomorphs.

[datorangebottle]

Finally, a removal that's good for the game-
MSO cockblocked it. Sad.

[CPTANT]

Why not just merge the virologist job into the doctor job?

The feature is fine, it's just the virologist job that is too niche.

[wesoda25]

Tbh I dislike healing viruses a lot more than lethal/annoying ones. It's just awful design imo, although recent efforts to make the healing less passive do somewhat help.

[Timonk]

i will miss viro.
good night my sweet prince, arguments against you were too strong. you have to be taken around the back of the shed and shot.

[RedBaronFlyer]

If virology got removed I certainly wouldn’t miss it, but at the same time it’d suck to have it removed wholesale.

Viruses still suck and aren’t fun for 99.9% of the crew, though. The document in the PR explaining why pretty much covers everything I’d say. At least with nearly every single other threat you have the chance of fighting back. Viruses are like borg combat where it’s just an equipment check and if you fail the check you die. At least malf borgs just kill you instead of GBJing you for 5 minutes before you finally die though, so you could observe the round as a ghost.

I am curious to see what specific PRs MSO mentioned that are the power creep ones. Also positive viruses are already super weak removing the half decent good virus traits will make it even less relevant outside of death viruses.

[datorangebottle]

Viruses are like borg combat where it’s just an equipment check and if you fail the check you die. At least malf borgs just kill you instead of GBJing you for 5 minutes before you finally die though, so you could observe the round as a ghost.

Unless they have a borg factory, but the GBJ time for that is much shorter.

[Hans]

Suprised it didnt happen earlier

[MooCow12]

Sentient diseases probably had more reason to be removed than viro, its literally noob bait gay baby jail for anyone that picks it during a round that already has an ambient disease spreading or not realizing that the person they infected is wearing a gas mask.


all the times i watched the poll popup as a ghost and told people not to click yes only for them to be stuck looking at a single individual for the rest of the round because they either got skill issued or no agency'd

[Turbonerd]

Can anyone recall at least a single positive experience with diseases, ever? Ban evaders don't count.

[Constellado]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/79854

The plot thickens

[Jacquerel]

I am curious to see what specific PRs MSO mentioned that are the power creep ones. Also positive viruses are already super weak removing the half decent good virus traits will make it even less relevant outside of death viruses.

we asked and he basically just linked every virology PR that has happened since 2016 but I can PR reverting them and we will see what happens

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

I'm really indifferent about viro removal. I'm more opposed to it being removed because I don't want coders to keep focusing on removing shit rather than because I actually like virologist. I wish coder team would focus on adding shit instead. Instead we have them wanting to remove ascensions, then traitor final objectives, now virology.

I think someone forgot to feed the coder team.

[Jacquerel]

we literally add shit every day of the week

[Capsandi]

we literally add shit every day of the week

yea but that shit is 90 percent emotes and 9 percent FOTM burgers

[Jacquerel]

I think the last time we added a new emote was August

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

we literally add shit every day of the week

Counterargument:

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Okay okay, maybe that was unfair, perhaps the next page of the closed PRs list will have some actual additions

Uh, I guess we got a couple minor sprite additions, but, the spriting team is different than the coding team, so I don't think that counts either, tbh.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Okay, I finally found something! 2 weeks ago, so, 7 whole pages of merged PRs back, we got some entity wibbling and drunk self harm

Not really stuff that I would say counter-balances the removal of all of virology or final objectives from both traitor and heretic though

So what were you saying about how the coder team adds stuff every day Jacquerel? Because that is objectively, demonstratably false, unless you count minor fixes and the spriting team adding stuff to be the same thing as the coder team actually adding content. Which I don't.

[Capsandi]

Okay, I finally found something! 2 weeks ago, so, 7 whole pages of merged PRs back, we got some entity wibbling and drunk self harm

finallysomecontent.png

Not really stuff that I would say counter-balances the removal of all of virology or final objectives from both traitor and heretic though

So what were you saying about how the coder team adds stuff every day Jacquerel? Because that is objectively, demonstratably false, unless you count minor fixes and the spriting team adding stuff to be the same thing as the coder team actually adding content. Which I don't.

please don't agree with me if you are going to type so insufferably

[Jacquerel]

19th November:
- Midround traitors can buy contractor kits
- You can tame and ride wolves on Icebox
18th November:
- Wall safe UI which doesn't look like shit
17th November:
- Botanists can grow carrot swords.
- Additional player-controlled bitrunning foes.
- Emags can allow bitrunning antagonists to exit the virtual realm into real life.
16th November:
basically just fixes and qol I'll give you this one, not that those aren't important
15th November:
- New panel for emote selection with more detailed information about when they will or won't display.
14th November:
- A ranch for Ash Lizards to raise Gutlunches, which can now be bred for battle stats an accompany you into the wild.
- Overdosing on green beer makes you green.
- Minor rework to gunpoints to make them more useful.
13th November:
- Customisable quirks can now be customised on the quirk page instead of swapping back and forth to see what they are actually doing.
12th November:
- Rapid-firing holoparasites can just shoot with full auto instead of using an auto clicker, holoparasites get dragged along when you move much more gracefully instead of constatly being teleported, and various other changes to impove the experience of playing or having one.

What is open and being worked on by coders right now? Well no guarantee it will be merged but:
- Rabbit DNA infusions
- Another new heretic path
- The ability to visually stand on beds, crates, and tables
- Framework for temporary jobs not available in every round
- Additional AI for cats, and helpful AI for chef-crafted cats
- Spider poison rework
- Tackling rework (would have been in today but i forgot to merge it oops)
- Asthma
- Portable gun recharger backpacks

Sadly didn't see any open PRs which would work on improving your ability to navigate github, read the changelog, or even to add some kind of cooldown to prevent triple posting. Hopefully someone will pick those up to improve before those dastardly maintainers remove these features.

[Bawhoppennn]

Time-Green, I killed Yog so you could come code for /tg/, and this is how you repay us???

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

19th November:
- Midround traitors can buy contractor kits
- You can tame and ride wolves on Icebox
18th November:
- Wall safe UI which doesn't look like shit
17th November:
- Botanists can grow carrot swords.
- Additional player-controlled bitrunning foes.
- Emags can allow bitrunning antagonists to exit the virtual realm into real life.
16th November:
basically just fixes and qol I'll give you this one, not that those aren't important
15th November:
- New panel for emote selection with more detailed information about when they will or won't display.
14th November:
- A ranch for Ash Lizards to raise Gutlunches, which can now be bred for battle stats an accompany you into the wild.
- Overdosing on green beer makes you green.
- Minor rework to gunpoints to make them more useful.
13th November:
- Customisable quirks can now be customised on the quirk page instead of swapping back and forth to see what they are actually doing.
12th November:
- Rapid-firing holoparasites can just shoot with full auto instead of using an auto clicker, holoparasites get dragged along when you move much more gracefully instead of constatly being teleported, and various other changes to impove the experience of playing or having one.

What is open and being worked on by coders right now? Well no guarantee it will be merged but:
- Rabbit DNA infusions
- Another new heretic path
- The ability to visually stand on beds, crates, and tables
- Framework for temporary jobs not available in every round
- Additional AI for cats, and helpful AI for chef-crafted cats
- Spider poison rework
- Tackling rework (would have been in today but i forgot to merge it oops)
- Asthma
- Portable gun recharger backpacks

Sadly didn't see any open PRs which would work on improving your ability to navigate github, read the changelog, or even to add some kind of cooldown to prevent triple posting. Hopefully someone will pick those up to improve before those dastardly maintainers remove these features.

You know what? You're right Jacquerel, I was overly harsh with my assessment. I'm sorry.

I'm just really overly upset about what you tried to do with Heretic. I think that you don't understand the fantasy of Heretic and how much we like it, and it's clouded my judgement of your contributions.

Please don't take me being so insufferable there to heart.

[RedBaronFlyer]

Sentient diseases probably had more reason to be removed than viro, its literally noob bait gay baby jail for anyone that picks it during a round that already has an ambient disease spreading or not realizing that the person they infected is wearing a gas mask.


all the times i watched the poll popup as a ghost and told people not to click yes only for them to be stuck looking at a single individual for the rest of the round because they either got skill issued or no agency'd

I still remember one round where the sentient virus infected an SSD guy in a dorm room on tram.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Big feature additions travel in herds to escape roving bands of thumbs-down emotes, everyone knows that.

[Higgin]

if I see a fish doctor it's on sight

[Higgin]

I remember when virology was two classic diseases, cold and flu, and they were just diseases because there were no advanced diseases, and you just cured them with spaceacillin and buckling a monkey to the bed

Unless you made puppy eyes at the CMO, Cap, or Cargo hard enough and they ordered you a smorgasbord virus crate with the finger-wagging admonition "you'd BETTER NOT BE DOING ANTAGONISM IN THERE...." as you played with GBS and Pierrot's, curing them or watching them kill monkeys for literally no other reason than because you now could, and this was the depth of virology gameplay.

So you waited for cult or benos to use viro as a base. Or even back then - you cured your two viruses, made vaccines for the odd cold/flu event, and became a green doctor.

Or, you ERP'd (the reason for speedrunning boosted healing viruses on Other Servers today,) or made yourself into a Homestuck troll with admin powers and threw a bomb-ass tea party. 2012 was a Hell of a time and I wish I still had a lot of the old screenies. I wish the old forums were up



All this to say that advanced viruses are a world of gameplay improvement and depth over what they've been, but virology - the DNA of the system - has been with us since before there were even multiple tg servers - it'll be a loss if we kill it now, but it's also worth pointing out that the loop of "get sick, cry at chem window, maybe dose spaceacillin, hope you don't literally gib before it's done getting fixed or a vaccine gets made" was also present back then too

[warbluke]

It'd be nice if we had more Star Trek funny symptoms instead of lame ones. Stuff that gives you an objective or makes you talk backwards or become a lizard is way funnier and much more sci-fi than "fall asleep, you don't get to play anymore."

There are a few good symptoms like that already but we should replace the really lame ones with better stuff too.