how to deal with dynamic as an antag

[EmpressMaia]

theres been alot of discourse around dynamic and how its very stinky and no-good. but it seems nothing to change it has ever really pulled through, so if we are stuck with this system. How do we make the best of it?

how as an antag should you response to the insane ammount of antags dynamic injects into a round, should you scale back? become non aggressive? aide the crew against the onslaught?

[EmpressMaia]

for fucks sake fight after making this i found the new dynamic hack MD
https://hackmd.io/@tgstation/SkeUS7lSp

[warbluke]

The trick is to get to all the objective first. It's not that hard to memorize a map and figure out the optimal layout to get insuls, chips, a full toolbelt, hand tele, and a baton. And once you have those things the station is yours to command.

[Indie-ana Jones]

The other threats Dynamic spawns exist to distract the crew with an obvious threat while you get your work done. Play into the chaos and kneecap the crew while they're busy with a different threat.

[MooCow12]

When Im tot / ling / heretic and there is a wiz/nukie/cult/rev or something else that will cause shuttle call or round to abruptly end I just rush bombs and bomb the station or suicide bomb the antag that ruined my antag roll.... if not outright suicide and watch youtube videos.

The other threats Dynamic spawns exist to distract the crew with an obvious threat while you get your work done. Play into the chaos and kneecap the crew while they're busy with a different threat.

The crew's answer to other threats is to red alert call the shuttle as soon as its available and end the round though?


So them being "busy dealing with other threats" really just means ending the round prematurely.

[TheLoLSwat]

if nothing else be a big nuisance to the goals of the crew

[zergking]

Use the chaos to your advantage and steal all the hvt stuff and kill all the station pets

[Itseasytosee2me]

Traitor is dead easy in dynamic because 9/10 the station falls into chaos so fast you can walk around and do whatever you want because everyone is worried about the space dragon which showed up for the past 5 shifts in a row, or the wizard, or the revolution, or the 20 other traitors, or whatever it happens to be this time. Traitors are almost seen as an afterthought from my experience. "People with cool items that might do some evil stuff but its probably best to not fuck with them because there is another space dragon we have to deal with."

[Turbonerd]

Speedrun plasmaflood then kill people. Since the threat variation is so high, the threat level is more likely to be above 70 than not if I roll an antagonist. There's just not a lot of time to do interesting shit.

[Higgin]

theres been alot of discourse around dynamic and how its very stinky and no-good. but it seems nothing to change it has ever really pulled through, so if we are stuck with this system. How do we make the best of it?

how as an antag should you response to the insane ammount of antags dynamic injects into a round, should you scale back? become non aggressive? aide the crew against the onslaught?

ive been playing more LRP lately (sorry I'm gonna keep using it because it's useful, there are different games emphasised by policy and design and community, or more accurately there IS a game emphasized on lrp, that's the difference) and i've been getting antag fairly often, both ghost roles and roundstarts

i'd say that on the one hand you are not responsible for dynamic and you are allowed to play how you want within the rules - if you wanna win, go harder. go as hard as you want and can.

if we felt that was sufficient, though, we probably wouldn't be asking your question.

Dynamic and a flood of antags puts everyone who isn't an antag in a shitty spot. It tries to address this by adding more antags, more opportunities. This gets more people over into being able to antag but also cheapens the experience somewhat (your return is much more likely to be any other antag blasting/converting you.)

It makes things increasingly bad luck for anyone who did not get antag or got targeted.

Not only are they more likely to be targeted (more antags, more targets, more targeters) and at a significant disadvantage during that time (thats how we design antags lmao,) but they still lack the license and freedom to have done as much otherwise that an antag gets.

Doubly fucked if they didn't want to antag to begin with.

If you're in that position, you'd probably rather
- somebody not fuck with you for no/arbitrary reasons
- have some sort of chance to read the writing on the wall and prepare against a threat or threats (this also means a chance to come back from a meaningless loss)
- have some way out other than mechanics, in which antags have been designed to have the quick and easy 1:1 advantage

As an antag, under present Dynamic - assuming you're even looking at your objectives - it's safest and least likely to fuck somebody else's night up among a whole lot of things that might to, when considering proactive measures,

1. say or hint what you're gonna do or what you want
2. offer a way out that is non-mechanical (or at least non-competitive)
3. hint that it can get mechanical
4. if you don't get #2, do #3, at least trying to not hard RR anyone who hasn't been party to these stakes
5. otherwise, play reactively, not assuming that anyone is owed your allegiance or friendship unless bound by rules. if another traitor is a dick to you, relaxed escalation entitles you to blast their head off. ideally you'd follow 1-2-3-4 with that if you care about their experience too, but if somebody's going hard in the paint, play according to your sense of how possible it even is to set that stuff up with them. remember that antag is generally up to you to do with what thou wilt, and that can include nothing. you'll have a better time with conflict if everyone is actively attending to it, or choosing not to do so, so don't feel bad about choosing not to.

Doing shit that hasn't been calibrated to objectives, or that isnt targeted to people, should follow similar rules. "get a death sandwich" can be a sufficient reason to end up in a shooting war with the whole station. escalate up to it, make sure everyone is aware of the stakes, and limit the extent to which any random asshole might die due to your war without having had a chance to know it was going and take a side.*

Then, if somebody comes out with a white flag and a death sandwich, be open to the possibility of taking it, licking your lips, shooting them dead (or not,) and then taking a bite to die on the spot.

Live eternally in the eyes of everyone who actively took part.

Or die partway there due to somebody else silently chasing their star, or some random bullshit, but that might've happened in any other run, and nobody's entitled to it going well - just to having a go.

This is the safest way to antag imo, even if it doesn't win as often as boning or rushing objectives - in an environment where people will, it's the most likely approach to end up with you and the other people you interact with having a good time.

dynamic's like a city bus, you can keep riding it until it stops doing rounds, it's always trying to pick people up, and if there is no capacity, there will be another - you choose your stop, everyone will get a chance to get to their destination eventually, but nobody's entitled to it

just don't make the ride miserable for others

(if you want to get really concrete:
- don't third party against global threats fnr because people can't attend to you as a threat mid-xenos/malf/blob or w/e
- don't go out of your way to do shit that might easily kill shitloads of people or render the round unsalvageable for the crew where they've got no way to deal with it [this is part of what I'm trying to fix with virology]
- don't just blanda up with other antags if they won't play to a similar approach)

[Higgin]

The point of offering non-mechanical or non-competitive offramps is to introduce more meaningful choice. Crucially, if somebody takes your offer and succeeds or meets it, you should honor your end of the deal. I.E. "look man, I gotta kill you and make you not alive any more, any last wishes/a last meal/somebody you want to get your stuff?"

Ideally, have telegraphed this beforehand, that's #1 - send a message like 'man you fucked up, bad, somebody wants your head.' Or go on a voice changer and call out an anonymous hit on your target. Then show up and threaten them accordingly. And if they just try to run, blast'em (hopefully they'll have prepped, plead for their life, sought help - etc.)

Even if the goal is RR, still a much cooler way to go out than a wordless sleepypen+spacing. If they're an antag, too, also a much more dramatic setup for the reveal.

This is an example assuming
1. your goal is RR, so there isn't really an offramp that isn't mechanical and final
2. you give a shit about your objectives and don't just make something up/pick something else anyway.


throw these assumptions out the window for a much better time

[Higgin]

for fucks sake fight after making this i found the new dynamic hack MD
https://hackmd.io/@tgstation/SkeUS7lSp

this might help tweak chaos levels and looks like an objective improvement to the system

it doesn't seem likely to change any of the questions of how you should play antag, but more careful scaling of chaos and pop should at least help make it a less guaranteed stomp or moonshot in any given round