two nutters RR'd from /tg/station community by MSO

[BonChoi]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Forum poster newbie makes shitty thread title

[Armhulen]

Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.

[Jacquerel]

Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.

Good fucking luck on Campbell

[RaveRadbury]

Alright then, fuck analogies. What if Sinful says "I never sent a message saying I wanted to cause admin burnout." How, exactly, could he prove it to you? What actions taken would be sufficient? If you can't think of any actions, or the actions are infeasible like "sending his entire discord history," then it means that Sinful can't prove his own innocence.

Character witnesses can help.

[warbluke]

I'd say this feels like a watershed but if that's true the players club as a whole has been a fucking waterfall for the past few months with all the bans.

[Thunder11]

this is a retarded analogy please come back with a better one

Alright then, fuck analogies. What if Sinful says "I never sent a message saying I wanted to cause admin burnout." How, exactly, could he prove it to you? What actions taken would be sufficient? If you can't think of any actions, or the actions are infeasible like "sending his entire discord history," then it means that Sinful can't prove his own innocence.

It’s not a matter of proof or lack of proof at this point. It’s a blacklist, it was placed at MSO's pleasure and it will be removed only at MSO's pleasure.

[NoxVS]

They could always send the evidence to their pals to share or something.

Well, for this kind of thing there might not be evidence of their innocence. Allow me to give an example: Bob is accusing Mary of sending a discord message saying "I hate cats." Mary says that she never sent a message like that. How exactly can Mary prove that she never sent that message? As far as I can tell, the only way would be to somehow give pull full access to her discord history, so people can comb through it and confirm that the message isn't there. Obviously that isn't feasible. Bob, meanwhile, can easily provide evidence just by showing the one message that says "I hate cats."

after getting some details from sinful i can say that (if these details are true) that the current headmin team is absolutely fucking bonkers.
like spending hours of their time digging up enough information to ban people because they are literal fucking drama vampires bonkers. (this includes the recent admin deadminning and sun catton permaing)

literally none of this is as bad as vekter or any purple name says it is.

if i'm missing any info here feel free to clear it up for me otherwise i'll see yall when the red names are gone

Seems like there’s some evidence here that could work. Surely.

[Armhulen]

Any proof isn't there to free the blacklisted people, just to see if it made sense to blacklist. I mean... I trust MSO, and I know he's the final arbiter for stuff like this, but it would be nice. Or maybe it wouldn't! Maybe we'd just spend all day arguing about the interpretation of a collection of bitter posts. Actually when I say that I become almost positive that's what we'd do.

[Constellado]

Wow 3 pages in one day. I am amazed.

The amount of upheaval in the community this term has been intense. People booted out, brought back in...

We are in a washing machine and it is spinning.




On another note, if MSO is active again can we get the TTS server back as a Christmas gift? A gift for all the friends that got left behind? (If they like TTS)

[oranges]

i'm starting to think mso just didn't like tts or something tbh and broke it on purpose.

[GPeckman]

It’s not a matter of proof or lack of proof at this point. It’s a blacklist, it was placed at MSO's pleasure and it will be removed only at MSO's pleasure.

The blacklist itself is entirely at MSO's discretion, yes. But that's a separate issue from people actually being convinced of Sinful's guilt.

Seems like there’s some evidence here that could work. Surely.

There really isn't any way for Sinful to prove his innocence except through exhaustion (sending his full discord history), and there's actually a mathematical reason why.

Warning: math. Abandon all hope, ye' who enter here!

► Show Spoiler

So, the reason Sinful is banned is that he allegedly sent a discord message saying he was trying to make admins burn out. In terms of boolean algebra:

Code: Select all

∃x∈D, such that P(x)

(In normal English: "The exists at least one of Sinful's discord messages for which P is true.")
Where D, the domain, is the set of all discord messages Sinful has ever sent, and P is a function that returns true if the input message x if the message says that Sinful wants admins to burn out. If Sinful wanted to prove his innocence, he'd have to prove this statement false. Proving a statement like this false is equivalent to proving the statement's negation true, and the negation of this statement is:

Code: Select all

∀x∈D, ~P(x)

(In normal English: "For all of Sinful's discord messages, P is false")
In other words he'd have to prove that none of his discord messages actually show that he wanted to make admins burn out.

[Scriptis]

-snip-

math major spotted

quick prove this for me

[SuperNovaa41]

i hope im next at this point. i havent even done anything but i hope they find something to get me banned. make something up for all i care. if they're gonna go down the line banning deadminning and blacklisting all my friends then whats the fucking point of being here. waiting to see who's next to go? hanging out with everyone celebrating them being gone? i fucking hate this

jackriip pt 2

In all seriousness, like Arm said, this game ultimately leads to making friends, don't make the mistake of permaing yourself over two of your friends being banned just to send a message that will fall on deaf ears
Make some new friends, create new experiences

[Not-Dorsidarf]

i mean if those two wanted to show that all these accusations are toootally overblown and jumped-up like the avatar of christmas here claims they could just, like, ask kendrickorium to post the discord logs of what they were actually saying in this discussion on their metacord since it seems theyre still on speaking terms.

Its not like its top secret documents where nobody ever is allowed to see, its their own discord conversation.

[conrad]

Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.

Stolen and sigged.

[Armhulen]

It’s not a matter of proof or lack of proof at this point. It’s a blacklist, it was placed at MSO's pleasure and it will be removed only at MSO's pleasure.

The blacklist itself is entirely at MSO's discretion, yes. But that's a separate issue from people actually being convinced of Sinful's guilt.

Seems like there’s some evidence here that could work. Surely.

There really isn't any way for Sinful to prove his innocence except through exhaustion (sending his full discord history), and there's actually a mathematical reason why.

Warning: math. Abandon all hope, ye' who enter here!

► Show Spoiler

So, the reason Sinful is banned is that he allegedly sent a discord message saying he was trying to make admins burn out. In terms of boolean algebra:

Code: Select all

∃x∈D, such that P(x)

(In normal English: "The exists at least one of Sinful's discord messages for which P is true.")
Where D, the domain, is the set of all discord messages Sinful has ever sent, and P is a function that returns true if the input message x if the message says that Sinful wants admins to burn out. If Sinful wanted to prove his innocence, he'd have to prove this statement false. Proving a statement like this false is equivalent to proving the statement's negation true, and the negation of this statement is:

Code: Select all

∀x∈D, ~P(x)

(In normal English: "For all of Sinful's discord messages, P is false")
In other words he'd have to prove that none of his discord messages actually show that he wanted to make admins burn out.

Fuck your math boy because the P probability sinful made an admin want to shrivel up into a peanut and fucking die is 1, it's just about finding out whether that was the intent that this is all about

[Capsandi]

any1 who is seriously discussing the merits of a mso blacklist are crazy.
any1 who is saying MSO is working off incomplete sources is alright
If you think I'm contradicting myself then ur bad
I'd like to see deedubya's take on this ban. Mayhaps we should unban deedubya for deedubya's take on this ban. I'm seeing a lot of agreement on this, yea I think its deedubin' time.

[GPeckman]

Fuck your math boy because the P probability sinful made an admin want to shrivel up into a peanut and fucking die is 1, it's just about finding out whether that was the intent that this is all about

I mean yeah of course its about intent. Sinful saying in a message that he wants admins to burn out is irrefutable proof of intent. MSO says that such a message exists (proving intent), and that's why he blacklisted Sinful.

Also P in this case has nothing to due with probability, its just a propositional function.

i mean if those two wanted to show that all these accusations are toootally overblown and jumped-up like the avatar of christmas here claims they could just, like, ask kendrickorium to post the discord logs of what they were actually saying in this discussion on their metacord since it seems theyre still on speaking terms.

Its not like its top secret documents where nobody ever is allowed to see, its their own discord conversation.

Is there some sort of process for blacklisted people to find out specifics of their ban? Specifics like the time the alleged messages were sent, and the server on which they occurred?

[Capsandi]

Also pro tip for any prospective metagangs trying to break out onto the scene(or was it break into the scene?) theres a dedicated metagaming channel called #tgstation on IRC and its free and its much more secure than dis(FBI)cord(Backdoor). Of course you wont use it because you cant pollute the chat with brain numbing image macros.

[datorangebottle]

Also pro tip for any prospective metagangs trying to break out onto the scene(or was it break into the scene?) theres a dedicated metagaming channel called #tgstation on IRC and its free and its much more secure than dis(FBI)cord(Backdoor). Of course you wont use it because you cant pollute the chat with brain numbing image macros.

[SuperNovaa41]

What we've learned from both this and the jackriip situation is that if you plan on breaking the rules maybe dont do it in a metacord full of admins

[BonChoi]

New ban reason just dropped (for the people complaining about the lack of clarity in the ban reason)

[kinnebian]

wowza

[Armhulen]

You should all be very scared now that double permabans are on the table. Who knows? Triple permabans aren't so crazy now either.

[iwishforducks]

You should all be very scared now that double permabans are on the table. Who knows? Triple permabans aren't so crazy now either.

he was already perma’d on the forums so technically this is his triple perma

[NoxVS]

We will continue to apply permabans until morale improves.

[TheLoLSwat]

i mean if those two wanted to show that all these accusations are toootally overblown and jumped-up like the avatar of christmas here claims they could just, like, ask kendrickorium to post the discord logs of what they were actually saying in this discussion on their metacord since it seems theyre still on speaking terms.

Its not like its top secret documents where nobody ever is allowed to see, its their own discord conversation.

i mean the bans were legit (in a very "yeah i mean sure i guess" way after seeing), again wouldve made more sense as just permabans but i understand why they are blacklists

[Constellado]

Wait its possible to ban the same account twice?

holy moly how far can it go?

If he manages to appeal ban A will he also have to do a second appeal for blacklist B? What happens if a person gets banned three times at once? three ban appeals for us to peanut?

If you didn't realise by now i'm just joking.

[DATAxPUNGED]

we need to give these two a proper funeral a la terry

Dude I'm out of doors

why is andy and leyley there

[datorangebottle]

it's against rule 8 to incest erp on tgstation, obviously they were banned.

[Justice12354]

we need to give these two a proper funeral a la terry

Dude I'm out of doors

why is andy and leyley there

Tuesday needed the spotlight

[Archie700]

i hope im next at this point. i havent even done anything but i hope they find something to get me banned. make something up for all i care. if they're gonna go down the line banning deadminning and blacklisting all my friends then whats the fucking point of being here. waiting to see who's next to go? hanging out with everyone celebrating them being gone? i fucking hate this

yup pretty sad

MSO is known for making quick decision banning so i don't even blame him

after getting some details from sinful i can say that (if these details are true) that the current headmin team is absolutely fucking bonkers.
like spending hours of their time digging up enough information to ban people because they are literal fucking drama vampires bonkers. (this includes the recent admin deadminning and sun catton permaing)

literally none of this is as bad as vekter or any purple name says it is.

if i'm missing any info here feel free to clear it up for me otherwise i'll see yall when the red names are gone

>sinful and pepper now have more time for shiptest

Please explain why you think none of this is really serious.

I really fucking doubt that you got that info from an unbiased source, considering that it's literally the very person at the center of the drama.

[chocolate_bickie]

lol

Christmas came early for Vekter

[Vekter]

:words:

Have you considered that the best source of information regarding this issue is probably not "the person who got banned"?

[Blacklist897]

yeah sinfulls spreading bullshit I know exactly how one of the three got deadminnned and it was not old drama by any means

[Archie700]

i hope im next at this point. i havent even done anything but i hope they find something to get me banned. make something up for all i care. if they're gonna go down the line banning deadminning and blacklisting all my friends then whats the fucking point of being here. waiting to see who's next to go? hanging out with everyone celebrating them being gone? i fucking hate this

Huh?

[Timonk]

Everyone shut up

[Bawhoppennn]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

[Archie700]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

I've been bloody holding my tongue because a lot of the info has not been released public and your short-sighted, utterly rubbish, stupidly biased, ad hominem, idiotic downplaying of this is really fucking pissing me off to no end.

Same goes for the rest of you who think what sinful and pepper did is not that bad.

[Bawhoppennn]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

I trust you have very specific reasons for being so mad at them then, other than just disliking their attitude in general?

[Archie700]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

I trust you have very specific reasons for being so mad at them then, other than just disliking their attitude in general?

It's a very personal matter to me I can't reveal for now because apparently headmins want to release more info later on this issue, I'll talk more about it when everyone gets the story.

[SuperNovaa41]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

Its odd that you would take this stance considering you don't know the entire story, which is very clear based off of.. all of the posts in this thread.

[Bawhoppennn]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

I trust you have very specific reasons for being so mad at them then, other than just disliking their attitude in general?

It's a very personal matter to me I can't reveal for now because apparently headmins want to release more info later.

Listen, if it's some genuine thing like doxxing, threats, actual targeted derogatory harassment, or something else of that magnitude, fair enough.

But if it's just some vague thing like "they wanted to make the forums a hostile environment to admins," I am not buying that concept.

With the lack of information, other than the blacklist reasons, and the other circumstances surrounding previous actions by those two, and other previous ban reasons, I don't think you can blame anyone for assuming that it's the 2nd option.

[Vekter]

Listen, if it's some genuine thing like doxxing, threats, actual targeted derogatory harassment, or something else of that magnitude, fair enough.

But if it's just some vague thing like "they wanted to make the forums a hostile environment to admins," I am not buying that concept.

With the lack of information, other than the blacklist reasons, and the other circumstances surrounding previous actions by those two, and other previous ban reasons, I don't think you can blame anyone for assuming that it's the 2nd option.

I obviously can't go that in-depth with it, but it was actual targeted derogatory harassment, to the degree of people explicitly discussing the best way to make the appeals process harder so that a specific admin (who I will not name*) would quit because they don't like how they handle things.

MSO is an asshole, but he doesn't blacklist people for goofy hearsay reasons - there is evidence, I've seen it, hopefully the headmins release it but I don't know if they will, it's credible enough that what happened was necessary. I'm telling you this as someone who did not participate in the process in the slightest - I am fully aware that my dislike of Sinful makes this hard to believe, but no, I didn't actively go out of my way to get him banned, nor did I even participate beyond attempts to help other admins in the appeals process.

(*No, it's not Archie, whatever happened with them is none of my business.)

[Bawhoppennn]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

Its odd that you would take this stance considering you don't know the entire story, which is very clear based off of.. all of the posts in this thread.

Listen, in all fairness, there may be more to it. But based on the given ban reasons, that stance seemed reasonable to the situation. I will gladly retract it when we find out more.

Also even if this particular instance is not an unreasonable ban, and those two actually did do something legitimately shitty, you have to admit there's been far too many problematic drama bans in the past. This looked worryingly like another one of those at first glance.

[Bawhoppennn]

Listen, if it's some genuine thing like doxxing, threats, actual targeted derogatory harassment, or something else of that magnitude, fair enough.

But if it's just some vague thing like "they wanted to make the forums a hostile environment to admins," I am not buying that concept.

With the lack of information, other than the blacklist reasons, and the other circumstances surrounding previous actions by those two, and other previous ban reasons, I don't think you can blame anyone for assuming that it's the 2nd option.

I obviously can't go that in-depth with it, but it was actual targeted derogatory harassment, to the degree of people explicitly discussing the best way to make the appeals process harder so that a specific admin (who I will not name) would quit because they don't like how they handle things.

MSO is an asshole, but he doesn't blacklist people for goofy hearsay reasons - there is evidence, I've seen it, hopefully the headmins release it but I don't know if they will, it's credible enough that what happened was necessary. I'm telling you this as someone who did not participate in the process in the slightest - I am fully aware that my dislike of Sinful makes this hard to believe, but no, I didn't actively go out of my way to get him banned, nor did I even participate beyond attempts to help other admins in the appeals process.

Alright Vekter, we often disagree but I trust your word on things like this. If it was genuinely severe enough to be more than normal shittery, alright then I apologize. So go ahead and ignore my previous posts then, I take them back.
Also people need to stop posting while I'm still typing a reply to the previous post.

[c4g]

Huh?

huh? buh?

[TheBibleMelts]

Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

Its odd that you would take this stance considering you don't know the entire story, which is very clear based off of.. all of the posts in this thread.

Listen, in all fairness, there may be more to it. But based on the given ban reasons, that stance seemed reasonable to the situation. I will gladly retract it when we find out more.

Also even if this particular instance is not an unreasonable ban, and those two actually did do something legitimately shitty, you have to admit there's been far too many problematic drama bans in the past. This looked worryingly like another one of those at first glance.

the more context you would have for why these bans were applied, the less respect for the privacy of the people involved there would be. throw all the rocks at me you'd like, but i am not compromising their privacy by exposing information we received in good will, for the purpose of determining their intent. i'm sorry everybody, this one's going to remain a little obfuscated.

[MooCow12]

Its official, i cant go back to farming axle brady for content anymore.

[iansdoor]

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned -pepper mint

Well, I am terrible at gathering quotes, but she nailed herself with her advice to administration, I reckon.

[TheBibleMelts]

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned -pepper mint

Well, I am terrible at gathering quotes, but she nailed herself with her advice to administration, I reckon.

this was not a metacommunications issue.

[RaveRadbury]

Also even if this particular instance is not an unreasonable ban, and those two actually did do something legitimately shitty, you have to admit there's been far too many problematic drama bans in the past. This looked worryingly like another one of those at first glance.